YTSEJAM Digest 3500
Today's Topics:
1) The math of music
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
2) Coldfire/Arash
by Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
3) Innocence Faded
by Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
4) What a jerk off!
by Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
5) New Feature!
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3497 (fwd)
by "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
7) Paynes Gray
by Beth Elzinga <liz@freenet.macatawa.org>
8) Re: What a jerk off!
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
9) Re: Arash
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
10) Re: Lie Single
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
11) Re: Divine Regale
by MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
12) did anybody not read this post because of this subject?
by "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu>
13) Re: YOU CALL YOURSELF "OPEN MINDED PROG MUSIC FAN" ?
by "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net>
14) Re: song length
by a thing with a voice <afn39111@afn.org>
15) 10,000 ytsejams and recommendations
by "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
16) Well I knew it was comming....
by "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
17) Elton John on Xmas CD
by "Antoni Krasinski" <kran@ichf.edu.pl>
18) DT videos
by "Wille Raab" <raab@mail.bip.net>
19) Re: Empty Tremor controversy
by "Timothy P. Shough" <hounddog@nji.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:47:44 -0500
From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The math of music
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980125134742.006930bc@pop.ici.net>
My scores:
WHEN DREAM AND DAY UNITE Score: 3.25
IMAGES AND WORDS Score: 3.5
AWAKE Score: 3.27
FALLING INTO INFINITY Score: 3.36
So *my* conclusion: The band has maintained a steady progression upward in
their full-length releases since the first album, with the exception of
I&W, which is generally regarded as their "masterpiece". Of course, all
this bullshit assumes that the arbitrary numbers anyone chooses to assign
to each song have some real-world concrete value, and that subjective
personal issues have now bearing on the ratings. I could just as easily
have changed the numbers above to make them come out to whatever the hell I
wanted them to say, much as I'm sure the original poster did.
TRUE conclusion: This so-called "mathematical model" is about as reliable
as the clueless reviews in magazines that we are always deriding on this
list. Why should we believe *anyone's* "4-star" rating? Just because they
are a fan? I think not.
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________
E-Mail: psull@ici.net
WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html
IRC: DDictator ICQ: 2049374
______________________________________________________
It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:59:43 -0500
From: Adam <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Coldfire/Arash
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980125135943.007d1200@mindspring.com>
>What does having children have to to with it...look at Mike Portnoy.
>You call us close minded but look in the mirror Arashole.....you are the
>pot calling the kettle black!
>Next time you feel the urge to post...stop...think long and hard about
>what you say...and then think some more...then don't post.
Jesus Christ. I usually don't reply to blatant obnoxiousness like this,
but I had to. Arash has just been trying to get us into one of his new
favorite bands, and he gets this oh-so-mature "Arashole" response. I urge
you to consider your own advice in stopping to think before you post.
Posts like this are completely unnecessary and it leads to other posts that
_should_ be unnecessary (like mine right now). If you're not interested in
the band or don't agree with his methods of pushing them, ignore them and
avoid the infantile personal attacks.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:17:19 -0500
From: Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Innocence Faded
Message-ID: <34CB81AF.513B@ic3.ithaca.edu>
Can someone please tell me why everyone has a problem with Innocence
Faded ??? I keep seeing people bashing it here, and it's beginning to
piss me off. Innocence Faded is probably one of my 10 favorite Dream
Theater songs, and I truly wish they would play it as much a they play
songs like Pull Me Under. Can someone please tell me whats so bad about
it? There's so much I love about it...the guitar intro...the vocals
section when Labrie hits that high note on the line "Wearing apathetic
displays, sharing flesh like envy in cages..." I love the guitar solo.
And the local radio station here, (well one of 2 at my school) has all
the DT albums and I call a few times a week and request a DT song, and
other than Metropolis, Another Day, Ytsejam, and Lines in the Sand, it's
one of the most frequently played DT songs on there.
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:27:45 -0500
From: Chris Calabrese <ccalabr1@ic3.ithaca.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: What a jerk off!
Message-ID: <34CB8421.3C56@ic3.ithaca.edu>
I just read some jerk off who made a rating system of 1 to 5 for DT
songs. This guy must have his thumb up his ass. He's obviously into
Dream Theater entirely for the "balls and chunk" aspect of it. He's
probably one of those jerks that thinks DT shows are the places for mosh
pits...ya know waht? THEY'RE NOT! You want balls and chunk? Go listen
to some Slayer. (no disrespect to Slayer...I'm a fan myself) But damn
it, I'm sick and tired of this shit. I'm not even gonna go into the
mosh thing! The last thing I want at a DT show is some 16 year old
faggot hitting me in the head. This fucker had songs like Hollow Years,
Anna Lee, Another Day, Take Away My Pain, LSOAD, Innocence Faded, and
Surrounded ranked as 1's and 0's, yet songs like The Mirror, Lie,
Metropolis, and LITS ranked much higher. Now I love all those songs,
but it's become obvious to me that this idiot has the idea that "songs
like Anna Lee are pussy songs, cuz they're not heavy and fast." That
attitude just pisses me off. I'm sorry I'm coming off as an asshole
here...but I'm really sick and tired of this shit!
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:43:03 -0500 (EST)
From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: New Feature!
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980125143953.15345A-100000@infinite.wezl.org>
For all you jammers that frequently browse LSOAR, check out our new
messageboard. It's kinda cheesey, but it's a chance to drop a line to
other people who check it out, also it gives you a chance to advertise
stuff for free. Also, if someone wants to make a graphic to link to it
from LSOAR I could use one...you'll get credit for it, and who knows maybe
I'll be able to come up with some way to reward ya for your efforts.
Normally I'd design one myself, but right now my only access to the net is
in a computer lab, so I can't really do graphic design here. Have fun,
keep it clean, and keep on Ytsejammin'
-Cheers!
_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*
^ According to the circle of fifths, and the order of sharps and flats: ^
^ If the alphabet continued as notes progressed (Using Major Key Sigs) ^
^ (i.e. A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, etc.) eventually the key of Z Major ^
^ would have 4 sharps. ^
^ "Just Lighten up and listen to the Music" -Kevin Moore (inside joke) ^
^ Eric Moegling: Manager for "Lifting Shadows Off A Ring" ^
^ and "Progressive Genius" ^
^ The Dream theater and Progressive Metal WebRings ^
^ HOMEPAGE - http://www.wezl.org/NuGgeTMaN or http://www.wezl.org/lift ^
^_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_^
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:42:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Richard A. Rivera" <rrivera@zoo.uvm.edu>
To: Dream Theater <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3497 (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980125143953.58676A-100000@elk.uvm.edu>
On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> How does one go about copyrighting a song (in the US)? Does it have to be
> finalized, or can it just be an idea/fragment or a demo?
As long as you have the song in a tangible form (tape, sheet music, etc)
it is technically copyrighted. But just having it in some form doesn't do
you much good in the case of somebody making an infringement claim against
you. Therefore, you need some way to place a date on the song's creation.
You can do this one of two ways: the real way or the "poor man's" way. The
real way is to register it in Washington. The "poor man's copyright" is
simply mailing a copy of the tape to yourself (but DON'T OPEN IT). That
way you have the postmarked date as a reference. There are certain
benefits to registering it the real way, but if you're pressed for cash or
are lazy, then the poor-man's way will get the job done.
As far as whether you can copy an idea or fragment, there is no
reason that you couldn't, but you're looking at a lot of paper work or
trips to the post office. I would suggest copyrighting a fragment when:
1) You're going to collaborate w/ other writers
2) You're going to perform it live
Richie
P.S. As an ammendment to my post about Firehouse, there actually is some
DTC there. In Metal Edge's year-end issue, they asked a bunch of rockers
their top five favorite albums on 1997 and Bill Leverty (Firehouse
guitarist) named FII as his third pick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:01:31 -0500
From: Beth Elzinga <liz@freenet.macatawa.org>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Paynes Gray
Message-ID: <01BD29A2.1FA6AE60@pm4-11.macatawa.org>
Ok guys, I'm a little behind on jams, and I realize that this might
be a little late. I'm sorry if I'm rehashing what someone else
already posted.
I got Kadath Decoded about a month ago now from lasers edge.
I think the music itself could probably be worth all Ken's raving
about it. Imagine spanish guitar and piano going to electric with
eerie synth noises going to some nightmare noises and, in one
song, cats yowling. :)
The singers were a little annoying at first, but that's just IMHO.
It all depends on your taste. They just didn't seem as if they
were as right on as they could be. Otherwise, I think the album
is really good. The overall story is taken from one of J.P.
Lovecraft's books, and is about a man who dreams about the city
of Kadath every night. Pretty cool stuff.
Like I said, I hope I'm not repeating anybody.
Beth
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end
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:17:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: What a jerk off!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980125121644.26599A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998, Chris Calabrese wrote:
>
>attitude just pisses me off. I'm sorry I'm coming off as an asshole
>here...but I'm really sick and tired of this shit!
>
I think the joke's on you...
..I took it as a joke (especially when he said, "and since I know
everything" or something like that). Grow a sense of humor, unless it's a
misdomenor offense to grow/own one in your state.
> Chris
>
--Matt
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:29:20 -0700
From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Arash
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980125132919.006dd8e4@postoffice.syspac.com>
Arash wrote this:
>Btw, I was sure, graham would be the first jammers,
>who would replay to this mail :)
>We will be friends forever ;)
I TRULY FEELLS FOUR GRAHAAM ?!?!?!?!?
~Vinnie
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:31:04 EST
From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Lie Single
Message-ID: <4acacfb6.34cba10a@aol.com>
Hello -
In a message dated 98-01-25 13:09:34 EST, you write:
<< This has nothing to do with my question, but it's a good demo so I thought
I'd like to see in here again :-) My question... What songs are on the Lie
single?
>>
Lie (EDIT)
Space-Dye Vest
To Live Forever
Another Day (LIVE
Hope this helps... Laterz...
- Matt T.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:48:04 EST
From: MTeiper <MTeiper@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Divine Regale
Message-ID: <3a12fe3d.34cba506@aol.com>
Hey All -
Got a question for y'all...
Can anybody point me to some Divine Regale sound files on the web? I found
the official web page out there, but sounds were "coming soon". :-( I think
these were the guys that opened for FW recently, right? I found a CD of
theirs on Metal Blade in the store, and I wanted to give 'em a try before I
bought it. Private e-mail would be fine. Thanks a lot.
- Matt T.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:54:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Partha S. Mukhopadhyay" <pmukhop@med.wayne.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: did anybody not read this post because of this subject?
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980125165139.14997H-100000@moose>
about that italian band that I absolutely must hear.....arash, i sure hope
they're paying you for the publicity.......
here's a band that i think y'all should look into....it's been mentioned
before, called Ozric Tentacles.....man this is weird crazy cool jazz prog
fusion out of this head majorly freaky stuff.....
partha
np:.... Ozric Tentacles: Strangitude
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:15:59 -0500
From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net>
To: "DT" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YOU CALL YOURSELF "OPEN MINDED PROG MUSIC FAN" ?
Message-ID: <199801252207.RAA02398@indy1.indy.net>
I won't say anything about Arash, except it's a pretty safe bet he's never
read 'How to Make Friends and Influence People'.
And Empty Tremor? Well...you know, I spent the better part of yesterday
combing the Web checking out bands that I've been meaning to, well, check
out, and I've come to the following conclusion: just because a band is
'prog' and therefore contains a lot of the elements that I love so well,
does not mean that I will find them at all compelling.
Empty Tremor? Wow, they do have chops to burn, but then so do most 'prog'
bands. And given their ages, you've really got to think that they are onto
something. Mayadome? Same thing.
But is anyone else but me getting sick of 'prog' cliches? I mean, get a
drummer that has mastered the double bass (and therefore plays NOTHING
else) and a guitarist, bassist, and keybordist who can play unison,
repeating sixteenth-note patterns, and BOOM, you've got yourself a 'prog'
band. And again, I'm going off of only what I've been able to hear online,
but I've gotten this impression from bands like Quite Room, Spiral
Architect, etc. It may be a bit harsh, but I call it 'cookiecutter prog'.
It's all good, but 'good' in the face of 'great' just isn't that
interesting.
After hearing a lot of the up and coming bands, I'm really all that much
more into DT, Lemur Voice, Shadow Gallery, Spock's, Fates, etc. There's
something in their sounds which sets them apart from not only the
aforementioned bands, but also from each other.
Mike Patrick
Indianapolis, IN
mepatric@indy.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:07:31 -0500 (EST)
From: a thing with a voice <afn39111@afn.org>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: song length
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980125165537.209251C-100000@freenet2.afn.org>
>
> Oh, if you're going to quantify quality, do not forget to take quantity
> (length of songs) into account. Colleges do this by multiplying the grade
> point by the credit hours, then dividing by total credit hours. Try
> minutes (round up)...
I don't know. It only takes me a moment to begin on track 3 when
playing Images and Words, so does it really matter how long Pull Me Under
is?
Also, if Ytse Jam were twice as long, would it be a better song, and would
WDADU be a better album? You'd probably have to count the song as less on
account of rambling. To use other bands as example, one "Knots" by Gentle
Giant is far superior to one "The Camera Eye" by Rush (still a classic song,
three times as long), and so my opinion would be that "Knots" contributes
more to OCTOPUS than TCE contributes to "MOVING PICTURES."
-=-
"I know you all love Billy Ray Cyrus... Fuck, any woman here would fucking
almost break her pelvis to open her legs for that mongoloid fuck to drop
his filthy cracker seed into your fucking womb. Liar! Liars!" -- Hicks
--------------------==== Broken via True Love ====-------------------
http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 Butcher, Rape, Smash to Pieces
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:10:54 -0500
From: "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: 10,000 ytsejams and recommendations
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980125171054.006f8a50@maila.wm.edu>
Eckie scribbled:
>mebbe 'cuz only about 4 or so people are actually reading each and every
ytsejam >email goin' through the system nowadays? 90 emails a day is a bit
overwhelming >sometimes, especially with a busy school schedule.
>Or maybe that's just me. :P
No, I hear you, man. I get the digests, and even those come 'round the
clock. It's frightening, actually, the volume of email I've gotten since I
signed up to this list.
>Well...as far as "alternatives" to Dream Theater, I'm quite impressed
>(i.e., FLOORED) by some of the bands that some of yous guys recommended
>like Symphony X and Savatage an' Stratovarious an', can't forget Iron
>Savior, and Lemur Voice an...well, I could go on.
Am still on a quest to hunt down and listen to music from some of the
others, but just wanted to commend you on mentioning SAVATAGE!
Rock on, all.
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:15:13 -0800
From: "Mark Philpot" <griphiam@ccnet.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Well I knew it was comming....
Message-ID: <01bd29de$b5cc8540$588c15cf@markphil>
In responce to Matt Johnston...
On Sat, 24 Jan 1998, Mark Philpot wrote:
>HELL NO! Most every song DT has released has been a hallmark in some
>form!!! Besides for a few songs on FII (BMS, YNM) EVERY SINGLE SONG is a
>work of art! There was a post not long ago about the worst DT song...
So, every song kicks ass, excpet for the ones that don't. ^_^
Very (and I mean this honestly) logically sound.
Unfortulately, you succeeded in making no point whatsoever.
Sorry. Come again drive thru.
Yeah, I knew I had it comming... But let me make myself more clear... There
is no DT song I don't like.... I just LOVE some more than others... When I
first heard FII, I though YNM was a great song... but after having listened
to it a whole bunch of times, I relize that it is not one of DT's better
creations... I still like it though.... But your right, the way I posted it
I succeeded in making no point, but I've come back to the drive thru and
hopefully have successfully reorderd.
Every song kicks ass... just some just get a little further up.... :)
Mark
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:56:35 +0100
From: "Antoni Krasinski" <kran@ichf.edu.pl>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Elton John on Xmas CD
Message-ID: <1EA0A137E31@alfa.ichf.edu.pl>
Hi!
I don't remember if this was discussed here before, but on the Xmas CD on
track 20 I can hear Elton John's 'Goodbye Yellow Brick Road' (1:23 - 1:56).
Have anyone of you noticed that?
Antoni Krasinski kran@ichf.edu.pl
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:17:38 +0100
From: "Wille Raab" <raab@mail.bip.net>
To: "Ytsejab" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DT videos
Message-ID: <036183425231918MAIL3@mail.bip.net>
I've just seen three DT videos for the first time, and (sadly) I must say
-- they were *B* *A* *D*!!!!
They were all made in the same way, with some cross-fading and some light
effects.. Even though I don't remember what songs it was (they're that
bad...), it could've been any of the I&W songs...
(yee.. I really sound bad.. ;-/ )
They would really have good use of a new video producer ... or at least
that's what I think..
// Moose
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:41:59 -0800
From: "Timothy P. Shough" <hounddog@nji.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Empty Tremor controversy
Message-ID: <34CBF7F7.10B1@nji.com>
> HAH ! This is just your opinion :)
> Off the top of my head I can rattle off ten albums that IMO are equal to
> I&W
> and better than Awake, but I am forbidden by the no top ten rule :)
Go for it, Graham! To hell with the no-top-ten rule! To hell with
open-mindedness!!! No, forget that...
How about Vauxdvihl? I've heard quite a bit about them but can't seem
to find their CD here in the states. Is is worth searching (and
ultimately shelling out big bucks) for? I'd appreciate any comments.
Thanks.
Tim
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3500
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