YTSEJAM Digest 3502
Today's Topics:
1) Rating the DT songs: it can't be done.
by Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
2) Melisma
by Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu>
3) Re: Empty Tremor controversy
by Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
4) Re: Metropolis 2 lyrics
by ProgRckBoy <ProgRckBoy@aol.com>
5) melismas
by Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
6) Pop's and Sebastian Bach
by Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu>
7) Mumblings and Jumblings
by Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au>
8) Re: Pop's and Sebastian Bach
by Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
9) Re: Metropolis Part 2 lyrics!
by Eckie <eckie@asu.edu>
10) new, infallible rating system
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
11) Re: Pop's and Sebastian Bach
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
12) A guy who knows everything?
by Michael Karlsson <o-karmic@jmk.su.se>
13) So lows? Sew lows?
by NGA <nga@software-ag.de>
14) Innocence Faded / SuperBowl
by Nicholas Giannotti <nickg@gis.net>
15) Re: The math of music
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
16) Zilch DT content
by NGA <nga@software-ag.de>
17) Royal Hunt
by "Heavy Metal at The Mining Company" <heavymetal.guide@miningco.com>
18) Iron Savior Homepage
by "Jason T. Breitweg" <Jason.Breitweg@desy.de>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:57:49 -0700
From: Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Rating the DT songs: it can't be done.
Message-ID: <34CC25DD.7DD7@goodnet.com>
How can we say one song or another is truly better? After all, we may
have a perceived sense of greatness that nobody else shares. Is it we,
or they, who are misinterpreting the song? :)
themselves needed to be more concise. Doesn't stop OAMOT from being my
solid winner, but others might cite Killing Hand or Ytsejam, and
rightfully so. I doubt anyone here harbors a closet devotion to
Afterlife, but you never know. Perhaps there's something about Afterlife
that they understand that I simply don't see.
to concur for the most part. The songs here are as breakthrough as music
can be in the prog sense. Pull Me Under, often maligned as
out-of-DT-style or too-commercial, is still the song that hooked perhaps
the vast majority of DT fans. I find Another Day and Surrounded, as well
as Wait for Sleep, sort of tedious to listen to. However when I hear
them again after an extended break, there's that much more to enjoy.
This, I think, is the mark of a good album. Learning to Live, however,
as incredible as it is, should have been more concise.
Awake had a lot of people badmouthing OFB (Our Favourite Band) because
of James' growling. I thought it was a keen idea that might have taken
off better had the situation been just right. Ironic how those same
people whined for James to return to the smooth singing, which he DID
for FII, and now they say FII is too commercial. Whatever. OFB is damned
if they do and damned if they don't. Portnoy says Voices is the best
song DT has ever written. I have a hard time arguing with that. Wait til
you all hear the version of Voices on Welcome to the Wasteland.
John/Derek/Mike/whoever sings the low part on "Seen my diary on the news
stand..." section, and James finally does the harmony part live. Since I
thought that was the strongest part of the song, it was a bummer during
the Awake tour to hear it done without the harmony. I sincerely hope
they keep doing harmonies like they are now. The other guys' voices
aren't bad at all. I don't see Scarred as the best thing since
wonderbread, but I know a lot of people do, so that too must be
considered valid. I still dig the song, though. Even Innocence Faded,
for Myung's amazing basswork throughout, is a winner in my book.
ACOS was ACOS. Hard to argue. Some like the older version, some like
the newer. I just like the song itself very much. In my ideal world, DT
will one day do a "complete" ACOS: the new version, adding in the verses
from the "original" version and extra vocals and samples. The Birch Hill
performance was DAMNED close. :)
As for FII, I know a lot of people do NOT share my opinion that it's
their best album ever, or that New Millennium should have been their
first single from the album, or even that Hell's Kitchen, once properly
accustomed to, is, like Erotomania, a masterpiece. Most people like
Lines in the Sand, and I have to agree. It's the emotion in the verses
and Mike's hihat/cymbal work in the middle that does it for me, as well
as the climactic "Living's so much easier once we admit we're dying."
I'm practically a disciple of the awesome Trial of Tears, but I know
some people don't like that one (Syrinx for example)... I guess they
just don't hear it the same way. The extension of the second chorus in
"It's Raining" is what does it for me; "As I walk through all my myths,
rising and sinking like the waves, with my thoughts wrapped around me,
through a trial of tears..." I even like Take Away My Pain, especially
the "additional" verses. You Not Me is a strange one. I like the lyrics
of the newer but the style of the older version. If they had not gone to
the minor key for the chorus, I think it would have cranked.
As for the unreleased stuff... we all know TLF is a blast, most people
seem to dislike Cover My Eyes but it really pumps me up, and you owe it
to yourself to hear The Way It Used To Be if you haven't already.
But remember, the experience must be your own! Ignore all my opinions
on the matter and form your own, and you'll probably find it amusing to
compare my "unenlightened notes" with your own personal opinions. It's
like the music of Rush: I never try to get people into Rush anymore.
Because if they don't "discover" Rush on their own, the magic will
simply never be there.
-- - Mike Bahr / Prism Records - durnik @ goodnet . com - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 00:19:52 -0600 From: Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Melisma Message-ID: <l03130300b0f1da9e7037@[128.252.105.105]>
Hiya, A melisma is placing more than one note per sylable in a song. An easy example is the word "wave" in the National Anthem. It sounds like Wa-ve because it has two notes. Technically a two-note melisma is called an appogiatora, but that's neither here nor there. Hope this helps.
Seth Hatlelid srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu
Check out my web page at http://artsci.wustl.edu/~srhatlel/index.html
"After the confession of sins and before the Act of Contrition, the priest is supposed to ask, Do you sincerely resolve not to commit this sins again? But Father McSwain's hurry-up version was more like "Commit these sins again?-to which I could have sincerely answered yes." -Michael Ryan, Secret Life
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:53:00 +1000 From: Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Empty Tremor controversy Message-ID: <34CC32CC.175055F@sydney.net>
Timothy P. Shough wrote:
> How about Vauxdvihl? I've heard quite a bit about them but can't seem > to find their CD here in the states. Is is worth searching (and > ultimately shelling out big bucks) for? I'd appreciate any comments. > Thanks.
Their one and only album isn't too bad, by no means a killer. They recent demo sees the band abandoning their progressive leanings for an industrial sound. To my knowledge they have now split up.
graham
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:15:11 EST From: ProgRckBoy <ProgRckBoy@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Metropolis 2 lyrics Message-ID: <4741af9b.34cc3801@aol.com>
Giving a shout out to the guy that posted that--
I love Pete Levin's country song lyric kit... It always cracks me up in a new way each time. I think DT should do a song using that kit, just to be nutty. BTW-- did you stumble upon PLev's site, or go through PapaBear records?
--ProgRockBoy
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 23:32:09 -0800 (PST) From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: melismas Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980125233052.11349A-100000@otter.mbay.net>
A melisma is basicly holding one syllable throughout a series of notes, usually more than five. For example, "Oooooooooooooaaaaaoowowowowahyeaaaaah."
"That is the truth. Not the hammer and sickle; not the stars and stripes; not the cross; not the sun; not gold; not yin and yang, but the smile... Because they died, we know we still live. Because a star explodes and a thousand worlds like ours die, we know this world is. That is the smile, that what might not be is." (John Fowles, The Magus)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:44:20 -0600 From: Seth Hatlelid <srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Pop's and Sebastian Bach Message-ID: <l03130301b0f1fbbd3853@[128.252.105.105]>
Just curious if anyone in the St. Louis area was going to see the Sebastian Bach show at Pop's on February 4th and if anyone wanted to get together before the show?
Also does anyone know about how large the Pop's is? I've never been there and I just want ot know if the sound quality/view was decent. $13 is fairly expensive for a small venue and I just want to get my $$$$ worth.
To the guy who posted about the Spice Girls movie: Is CIAW really in there? If so, that would be a great way to convert some of my vacious rap/dance fan friends into DT fans (three down 1,298, 567 to go!).
Thanx, Seth
Anyone noticed that the jam has really gone to hell lately? I think we are hitting that after-album-nothing to do except flame the hell out of each other slump. Any thoughts?
Seth Hatlelid srhatlel@artsci.wustl.edu
Check out my web page at http://artsci.wustl.edu/~srhatlel/index.html
"After the confession of sins and before the Act of Contrition, the priest is supposed to ask, Do you sincerely resolve not to commit this sins again? But Father McSwain's hurry-up version was more like "Commit these sins again?-to which I could have sincerely answered yes." -Michael Ryan, Secret Life
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:04:05 +1000 From: Nigel Bridgeman <nigelb@powerup.com.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mumblings and Jumblings Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980126190405.006c4af4@powerup.com.au>
Hi
Every now and then I just like to let loose and just scream my damn head off at everyone here about everything that annoys me with the jam and music and just whatever else irks me. This is such a time.
I've been moving recently so I don't have much phone access at the moment until my new phone line is installed (try asking four other people if you can use the only line in the house to surf the net - ain't gonna be easy, pal). What follows relates to threads that were current in the week leading up to January 25, 1998 (which is now) so, if this doesn't get sent until a few days later and everything is out of date, too bad. You can all bite me. So there.
Oh, and my CD player was on the blink this morning - kids, if you're going to move your stereo, make sure that either a) you take all of the CDs out of the CD changer *beforehand* or b) you're just damn careful. I chose c), none of the above. Everything's ok now, though. Fret not.
Anyway, back to my rant. As I've said before, I rarely post my opinions on the jam when I'm *really* annoyed, but I'll make an exception here. It's that time of the month, y'know? Of course, this will end up being a mundane post compared to those of everyone else - I still need lessons from my mentor so just hang in there.
Here goes.
GUITAR SOLOS - Mr Ptacek (the greatest guitarist nobody has ever heard) derided someone for saying that two of their favourite solos were from The Unforgiven and Master of Puppets, and about the writing prowess of the performers in question. So 'kin what? A solo, to me, is not about technical skill but about how it feels, sounds and fits the song entire. I like Kirk & James' solos - just this weekend I remembered how kick-damn-ass the Fade to Black solo was. I'm not a guitarist - I can barely play the first few seconds of YYZ - but I like to think I know a good solo when I hear one. Oh, and I LOVE the solo from The Unforgiven. Bloody brilliant, especially after watching that video that I can't remember the name of offhand where they're in the studio making the album. A Year and a Half in the Life Of, Vol 1, I think. The live one was the second one, with fifty-seven different performances of Enter Sandman and fifty-eight references from Lars on how popular they are.
SYMPHONY X - The Divine Wings of Tragedy is a very good album, at first. I say at first because I find that if I pay too much attention to it then my opinion starts to drop. I'm referring to the lyrics, mainly. They irk me, and I'm not going to back up my claim because it's my opinion, so y'all can sod off. Although if you all agree, then that's cool :) Oh, and, fast playing and stuff aside, Michael Romeo's playing does *nothing* whatsoever for me. I can think of many better guitarists (that I prefer, anyways) - Dave Murray, Adrian Smith, Randy Rhoads, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine, James Hetfield, Kirk Hammett, Berndy Basmer, Brendt Allmann, Kiko and Rafael from Angra (can't be bothered checking their surnames), Marty Friedman, Al Pethingie & Chris Cafferey from Savatage, Criss Oliva, Alex Lifeson, Steve Howe, Roy Z, the guy from Winter Rose... but that's just me. If you guys like em, then that's just swell. The singer is great, btw. He's no Dio, but he's still a damn sight better than most of the singers around these days.
THE FAQ - Fare thee well then, D-Man. My vote goes to either myself (I'll replace every question I don't think is necessary with ones such as, "What do the band members prefer - 'Family Matters' or 'Full House'?" and "Why the hell are there so many unbought copies of I&W and Awake at my local HMV?") or, if that doesn't pan out, Graham Boyle (his section on the DTIFC will be a highlight).
PROG - I don't give a flying fudge whether music is progressive or not, and I care even less if it's complicated or any of that crap. If it rocks, it's fine. If I don't think it's cool, then forget about it. 'Cool' encompasses pretty much every genre of music - DT is cool, Pearl Jam's first two albums are cool, Johnny Cash is *extremely* cool, Dave Grusin's score for The Firm is beyond cool (definately one of the best CDs I own - Dave is the whole reason why I wish I'd learned to play piano), glam metal is cool, the Culture Club were cool for about 5 minutes way back when, the Beatles were cool, jazz is cool, blues is cool. So, what I guess I'm trying to say is, if you tell me a band is progressive, then I couldn't give a toss. What I want to know is, is it cool?
One more thing - just what the hell does ^_^ mean??? It annoys the shit out of me. Just had to get that out of the system... ---
I think that's pretty much all for now... I do feel much better than I did before, I must say. Got my Van Halen tickets on Friday for April 24. Should be good. Don't have my Ozzy tickets yet though - he's next month, I don't think I'll bother going yet. May see Metallica in March, if I feel like it. I'm seeing U2 next month. I want to see DT. DT aren't touring Australia yet. I want to see Rush. I want to see Maiden. I want to see Savatage. I want to see Angra. "I want my, I want my, I want my MTVeeeeeeeee..."
Bye
Spiff
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:23:02 +1000 From: Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Pop's and Sebastian Bach Message-ID: <34CC55F6.408D1E5D@sydney.net>
Seth Hatlelid wrote: > Anyone noticed that the jam has really gone to hell lately? > I think we are hitting that after-album-nothing to do except flame the hell > out of each other slump. Any thoughts?
Yeah, good isn't it ? :) graham
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:53:42 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@asu.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Metropolis Part 2 lyrics! Message-ID: <34CC5D26.646D08A@imap1.asu.edu>
Jeremy Hyde enthusiastically posted: > > I did a little poking around on the web yesterday, and I believe that I've > stumbled upon what looks to be the lyrics for Metropolis Part 2! The page > is: http://pw1.netcom.com/~plev/countrylyrickit.html
You are one sadistic son of a bitch, my friend. :)
Oh, and I finally got a listen to the PRE-Shirley versions of Take Away My Pain and New Millennium and so forth....
..and I haven't been that pissed off about a producer's involvment ever. Whoever I knocked down when FII came out an' wanted Shirley's head on a stick, I fully understand now! The demo (btw, this demo I heard was WAAAAY too good to be a demo, production wise) version of TAMP just blows me away!!! I understand that the artists themselves decided to keep the Mad About You drum beat in the song, but the way it was with the heavy stomp groove on the guitar half way through the song is just so much BETTER... And New Millennium's demo on the DTIFC X-Mas CD is so un-godly heavy it isn't funny. Shirley took away DT's balls.
~Eckie, brother of the No-Twang Clan
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:13:02 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: new, infallible rating system Message-ID: <199801261013.CAA24879@gms.gmsnet.com>
>From now on, if you're gonna review the band... you must adhere to the following guidelines, this'll be called the YTSEJAM review guideline.
If you do not adhere to this guideline, we will flog you with our spiked tongues and Spice Girls videos.
You may only rank CD's with the ranking system of -1,0,1... -1 being terrible, 0 being nothing, and 1 being listenable, that way, we eliminate all subjectivesness and adhere as close as possible to a objective, scientific review of any album.
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 02:41:34 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Pop's and Sebastian Bach Message-ID: <199801261041.CAA24998@gms.gmsnet.com>
On the Eve of Destruction, Seth Hatlelid said: > >Anyone noticed that the jam has really gone to hell lately? >I think we are hitting that after-album-nothing to do except flame the hell >out of each other slump. Any thoughts?
Hmm... didn't notice... probably because we've descended beyond mere hell into the lower levels where the real badass demons live... we're trudging along knee deep in the waste of dead posters who have been decapitated by the sharp sword of Ptaccc... PAYCHECK, and that Graham Boils guy, with his dual- ported flame spitter.
Man, I gotta stop playing Hexen and Quake and stuff...
-The Doc
-- #$%*#$*@ E-MAIL: drkhoe@gmsnet.com #$%#$#$% _+_+_+_+ Unix, Internet, Intranet Engineering _+_+_+_+ [][][][] Dr. Mosh's Progressive Feast [][][][] #$@#$#@# http://progmetal.gmsnet.com @#$@##@$
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:14:38 +0100 From: Michael Karlsson <o-karmic@jmk.su.se> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A guy who knows everything? Message-ID: <v03020904b0f21f271506@[130.237.155.25]>
The jam has been very psychedelic lately...what is the URL to this guy's homepage, you know, "The Guy Who Knows Everything"? I would really like to check that one out from a psychological point of view. Another "out there"-insight that I read on the jam is that Another Day, Surrounded, Wait for Sleep and Anna Lee in fact all are really bad songs. That would never have struck me personally. And Empty Tremor the only alternative to Dream Theater? Well, I'm not much into alternative music, I think I'll pass that one.
A by no means open-minded progmetalfan (I hope!),
Michael
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:34:27 +0100 From: NGA <nga@software-ag.de> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: So lows? Sew lows? Message-ID: <01BD2A56.BE553090@pcnga.software-ag.de>
Hi all
I subscribe to the Bernd Basmer (who's that? Hi Bernd!) school of thought concerning solos. Most solos I've ever heard tend to stick out like a sore thumb, rather than being an integral part of the song/track in question. They often tend to break up the natural flow, and I feel this is especially true of solos (particularly the 'trading' keyboard/guitar stuff) played by bands like Stratovarious, Symphony X etc. This was also one of the reasons why I was so disappointed by Rhapsody's album "Legendary Tales". But the worst offenders as far as solos are concerned have to be drummers. I have never, ever seen or heard a drum solo that wasn't boring (and before you all start bitching, yes, I have seen drummers like Carl Palmer, Terry Bozzio, Mike Portnoy, Billy Cobham, Bill Bruford etc. etc.). Send flames, drop napalm on my hard disc, make me eat at McDonald's or Burger King, but you won't change my opinion.
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) (http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/2321) Currently playing: Anathema - Crestfallen
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:41:16 -0500 From: Nicholas Giannotti <nickg@gis.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Innocence Faded / SuperBowl Message-ID: <199801261342.IAA27361@ns2.gis.net>
Personally, I think IF is one of the better songs on Awake, which, I think, is DT's worst album (its only redeeming points are IF, TSM, Lie, and LSOAD - for me to only like four songs on a DT album is what makes it the worst in my eyes, i.e. I like everything of I&W and everything except AL on FII).
What's up with Denver!!! Woo Hoo! I'm thrilled the AFC finally got it back - couldn't have happened to a better QB, either, in my eyes (granted, I would have liked it to have been Bledsoe and the Pats, but hey, ANY AFC team is better than nothing!). Anyone else watch the MTV Deathbowl Deathmatch 98? Fookin' hysterical. Marilyn Manson REALLY kicked ass!! (If you saw it, you know what I'm talking about).
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:43:30 -0500 From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: The math of music Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19980126084330.24178c74@mail.ici.net>
>> this bullshit assumes that the arbitrary numbers anyone chooses to assign >> to each song have some real-world concrete value, and that subjective >> personal issues have now bearing on the ratings. I could just as easily > >"Personal issues." You mean, like *opinion?* The only thing important in >artistic judgement?
No, I mean "personal issues", stuff like "I don't like pussy ballads". It is apparent from the original post that the poster doesn't like the ballads that DT does. Therefore, his ratings have no validity to someone who does not agree 100% with his assessment.
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________ E-mail: (psull)-(at)-(ici)-(dot)-(net) IRC: DDictator WWW: http://www.ici.net/cust_pages/psull/psull.html NP: Dream Theater - "Falling Into Infinity" ______________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:53:33 +0100 From: NGA <nga@software-ag.de> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Zilch DT content Message-ID: <01BD2A7A.F10BC8E0@pcnga.software-ag.de>
Hi all
do any of you Jammers happen to know any good sites that contain lots of stuff about/by the comedian Bill Hicks? I've found a couple of addresses (mostly in the UK strangely enough) with a handful of transcripts, but I would be grateful for any good tips.
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) (http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/2321) Currently playing: Bob Calvert - Captain Lockheed And The Starfighters
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:03:29 -0500 From: "Heavy Metal at The Mining Company" <heavymetal.guide@miningco.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Royal Hunt Message-ID: <009001bd2a73$f265b7c0$69c229cf@default>
I don't know how many of you out their in Ytse-land have heard of this band, but they are definitely a band worth checking out. While maybe not as technical as DT, they are definitely phenomenal. The overall experience of their latest release, Paradox, is unbelievable. I have some streaming sound samples along with a review of the album and an interview with vocalist DC Cooper at http://heavymetal.miningco.com/library/weekly/aa012498.htm.
Catch Ya On The Rebound, Matt Heavy Metal at The Mining Company http://heavymetal.miningco.com heavymetal.guide@miningco.com
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Date: 26 Jan 1998 18:24:20 +0100 From: "Jason T. Breitweg" <Jason.Breitweg@desy.de> To: bglist@bigfoot.com, ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Iron Savior Homepage Message-ID: <tkuiur7cfnf.fsf@zussun1.desy.de>
THE Iron Savior Homepage is back up and running after the server was down for a little while. Make sure to check it out at:
Jason
-- Jason T. Breitweg Jason.Breitweg@desy.de http://www-zeus.desy.de/~breitweg, ICQ #7495933
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3502 **************************
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