YTSEJAM Digest 3503
Today's Topics:
1) Re: new, infallible rating system
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3502
by Doug Cronkhite <c4@san.rr.com>
3) The DT Movie!
by Christian P Kremo <kremoc@river.it.gvsu.edu>
4) Rating the albums mathematically.
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
5) Good lord!
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
6) DTIFC - Please help!
by The Phoenix <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
7) Innocence Faded
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
8) Da' Broncs
by Steven Zinck <zincks@ohsu.EDU>
9) Cairo
by Rick Audet <Ytse@cris.com>
10) Re: DTIFC - Please help!
by Rick Audet <Ytse@cris.com>
11) Red Lenses (was Re: Innocence Faded)
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
12) REMINDER: FAQ up for grabs
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
13) DT in Festival !!!
by Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@FH-Niederrhein.DE>
14) Re: Rating the albums mathematically
by "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com>
15) coming out of the closet :)
by "woot" <woot@crypted.com>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3502
by a thing with a voice <afn39111@afn.org>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:24:31 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: new, infallible rating system
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980126151940.14958A-100000@dijkstra.linux.ime.usp.br>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Dr. Mosh wrote:
> You may only rank CD's with the ranking system of -1,0,1... -1 being
> terrible, 0 being nothing, and 1 being listenable, that way, we eliminate
> all subjectivesness and adhere as close as possible to a objective,
> scientific review of any album.
Wow, Doc. I never thought someone could say that a disc that has
less material is actually better than a disc with more material. :-)
You're absolutely on crack. :-)
Time to be serious: if we have a CD with 10 songs and 5 of those
are 1 and the other five are -1 (and let's consider that the songs have
aproximately the same lenght, so that taking weighted average is the same
as taking ordinary average), then this album has rating 0. On the other
hand, if you take off those "terrible" tracks, the same album gets a
rating of 1.
Let's talk about certainty with Heisenberg.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html "Life is ours, we live it our way (...) / And nothing else matters" James Hetfield (Metallica), Nothing Else Matters =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:49:17 -0800 From: Doug Cronkhite <c4@san.rr.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3502 Message-ID: <34CCCC9D.321A857D@san.rr.com>
Can someone make me a copy of the X-mas CD ?? Be happy to send a tape or whatever in return.
Doug
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:08:15 -0500 (EST) From: Christian P Kremo <kremoc@river.it.gvsu.edu> To: YtseJam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: The DT Movie! Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.95.980126130252.10675A-100000@river.it.gvsu.edu>
I was thinking that if the Spice Girls could do a movie, why not have DT do one? They could ride a big goofy bus around Long Island and we could finally meet all the mystery DT persona, such as JM's mute parents, Derek's gay friends, JLB's pot smoking buddies, and Kevin Moore's testicular cancer doctors. Here's the plot: they are on a nationwide quest to sell a million copies of FII in a week or they get dropped by the evil, evil record company. Side plot for the movie: a group of mad Ytsejammers are also on a quest to hunt and kill Kevin Shirley. We can call it "Prog World." Any takers or producers or script writers?
-C#
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:11:32 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: "Harm's Way" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Rating the albums mathematically. Message-ID: <34CCD1D4.7AAE@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
a thing with a voice (and a calculator :) wrote:
> FALLING INTO INFINITY
> New Millennium - 3 > Hollow Years - 1 > Just Let Me Breathe - 2
But, but....WAIT!
New Millennium - 4 <-- Putting the GROOVE in the prog! Hollow Years - 4 <-- Incredible emotion in James' voice! Just Let Me Breathe - 5 <-- POWER! :)
:)
There, I fell much better now :)
This shows how using math to draw a conclusion proves nothing, as the intial inputs to the 'conclusion engine' are arrived at in a purely subjective fashion :) I understand that it was YOUR conclusion, so that makes it ok :) I just don't see the point.
As an example, there are several on this list who probably want to torture you a la Clockwork Orange style, for some/many of the songs which you rated '0'
Some people like certain songs/albums better than others, we already that :)
I guess the problem I mainly have is the application of math/logic/reason to music, something which I listen to and enjoy for none of those reasons. I love FII, don't think the band has gone downhill (although they are gaining speed and momemtum :) I don't need to compare it to ANYTHING! It stands on its own. Indeed the band has gotten more polished, their live performance is much tighter. The band is really starting to come into its own, and I see wonderfull things around the corner in a kick ass town called Metrolpolis :)
Just my opinion, I could be right :)
Rogerio:
> Oh, and to a more basic subject, please, don't forget to give your > averages weighted by time. :-)
I got on a talking scale the other day, and it said "Come back when there's only one of you"
bwahahahahahah
Mogus: > What's up with Denver!!! Woo Hoo! I'm thrilled the AFC finally got > it back couldn't have happened to a better QB, either, in my eyes
It was nice ending to his career. He's definitely a lock for the Hall of Fame.
Denver 31 Green Bay 24
1998-1999: The Quest to repeat?
:)
Regards,
Jon -- *------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:23:32 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Good lord! Message-ID: <199801261823.MAA13716@enteract.com>
> From: Michael Bahr <durnik@goodnet.com>
> themselves needed to be more concise. Doesn't stop OAMOT from being my > solid winner,
Uh oh...
> Awake had a lot of people badmouthing OFB (Our Favourite Band) because > of James' growling. I thought it was a keen idea that might have taken > off better had the situation been just right. Ironic how those same > people whined for James to return to the smooth singing, which he DID > for FII, and now they say FII is too commercial. Whatever. OFB is damned > if they do and damned if they don't.
> As for FII, I know a lot of people do NOT share my opinion that it's > their best album ever,
I'm shocked and appalled. This mirrors my own opinions on these issues to a tee. Surprising, in the least. I've always favored WDADU, on a personal level, especially for the lyrics, which tended to be less ambiguous and more meaningful to me than the others. However, I also believe, without doubt, that FII is their best album. I'm not like a lot of my friends on this list though, in the respect that I tend to enjoy any music that displays effort and emotion, while staying in tune... be it Mariah Carey, The Police, Symphony X, or DT. Too many people place their own demands on what a band must do, and that only leads to disappointment. Sure, I do this too, but I'm willing to hear something rather than merely disqualifying it for it's lack of double bass, etc... Food for thought.
Nigel wrote:
> GUITAR SOLOS - Mr Ptacek (the greatest guitarist nobody has ever heard)
ROFL! I've never been called that before. It implies both compliment and insult. I love it!
> derided someone for saying that two of their favourite solos were from The > Unforgiven and Master of Puppets, and about the writing prowess of the > performers in question. So 'kin what? A solo, to me, is not about > technical skill but about how it feels, sounds and fits the song entire.
On that note, I want to be clear that there was certainly an intended note of humor in that post. I hate Metallica, not because they can't play their instruments to save their lives... that's just an added bonus to make fun of... I hate them more because I find them to be filled with ungodly cheese, ever since the Black album. Not even a "Sell Out" issue, which, in this particular case, can NOT be denied, when considering their past statements about videos, lyrics, and heaviness in general. If they want to make some cash, great. I just think they sound ridiculously bad. Hetfield is a decent thrash vocalist. When he does anything else, he sounds like a moron to me. The attack I made was more in jest, at Metallica, than to Stephen, and I am sure he picked up on that. You can just as easily insult the bands I love, and be no more or less founded, no matter what you say. It was an attempt at a funny. :)
Take care!
- Chris
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:02:26 -0600 (CST) From: The Phoenix <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DTIFC - Please help! Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980126125455.25310A-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
I don't want to bring up an old topic or anything, but I have a question. It may have been answered in the last month or so, but I have not had net access in that time. I sent in my check to the NY fan club address early October and it hasn't been cashed. I just saw on the web page that there is a new U.S. address for the fan club. Does that mean that they never got my check because I sent it to the wrong address? If they're busy and haven't gotten to it yet, I can wait. I just don't want to be waiting in vain if they never even received my check. Anyone who knows anything about this, please respond. Private e-mail is fine if this topic has already been covered on the jam. Thanks!!!
-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- | Robert Taylor The world may seem flown away | | rctaylor@uiuc.edu Almost as if it cannot be saved | | The Phoenix Will we be able to rise | | From these ashes we've sown | -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:03:00 -0500 From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Innocence Faded Message-ID: <199801261857.NAA05642@bertelsmanncis.com>
from chris: >Can someone please tell me why everyone has a problem with Innocence >Faded ???
..because that chorus belongs in wisconsin with the rest of the cheese.
seriously, IF is far and away my least favorite song on Awake (an album i would consider utterly perfect without it). the song has some good points, but the chorus... i've always sorta pictured that great white video from the 80s, "once bitten twice shy," with those cheesy big-hair chicks singing backups. i cringed the first time i heard it, and though i've listened to it enough to enjoy some of the song, i still can't get by that chorus.
hey, all bands, no matter how great, have their songs that just miss. rush wrote "i think i'm going bald" and "red lenses," chris degarmo managed to help sink HitNF with his horribly cheesy vocals, ditto for the "cheese" song on King's X's "ear candy." and heck, even dream theater has missed, though their misses aren't without redeeming factors. BMS has a great keyboard solo, and YNM... well, it's next to NM on the album. i guess that counts for something.
--MATt
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:10:44 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Zinck <zincks@ohsu.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Da' Broncs Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.980126110534.11917A-100000@steele>
Well, having grown up in Denver and being a Bronco fan for over 20 years, it was a beautiful thing to watch them literally ram the ball down the Packers throats and finally get the monkey off their back. 2 touchdown underdogs. What a joke. Hey Gilbert Brown, get some oxygen and lay off the donuts.
Zinck
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:34:20 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet <Ytse@cris.com> To: YtseJelly <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Cairo Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980126143132.16148B-100000@viking.cris.com>
Folks,
Any comments on the new Cairo album? I saw it in the store the other day but I thought I'd check here first for opinions, since you all have such delightful ones. :)
Now Playing: Front Line Assembly, "Caustic Grip"
Rick Audet
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:31:08 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet <Ytse@cris.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: DTIFC - Please help! Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980126142557.16148A-100000@viking.cris.com>
Robert Taylor asked:
> I sent in my check to the NY fan club > address early October and it hasn't been cashed. I just saw on the web > page that there is a new U.S. address for the fan club. Does that mean > that they never got my check because I sent it to the wrong address?
Neil Elliott, the d00d who runs the DTIFC responded to this recently (if my memory servers me) and stated that all letters sent to the old address have been received but it will take some time to get through them all. Will these people get the xmas CD? That's something I too would like to know, since I'm in the same boat: sent my renewal in mid October and it has yet to be cashed. I'm pretty confident that all will turn out fine. :)
Rick Audet
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:45:18 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Red Lenses (was Re: Innocence Faded) Message-ID: <199801261945.OAA11850@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
> hey, all bands, no matter how great, have their songs that just miss. > rush wrote "i think i'm going bald" and "red lenses,"
Whoa. Back up the bus for just a second. OK, now I can see how some may feel that "ITIGB" is a cheese tune (although I like it - and no hair jokes, please :). But "RL"? God damn, boy! Where do you get your crack from? What is there about Red Lenses that makes it as deplorable as IF to some (and, again, not me)? Seriously, now. I don't see anything to dislike about anything on p/g, particularly that song. (OK, maybe there's too much keyboards, but hey, I'm a bass player.) Tell me what's so bad about RL. I need to understand this point of view.
So, Elway finally got his Bowl ring. He's still a loser. I guess the Giants will have to start the new NFC winning streak next season. :) Hey, Cashman, how long till pitchers and catchers report?
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:46:09 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: REMINDER: FAQ up for grabs Message-ID: <199801261946.OAA11862@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
(This is a repost. -d)
The time has come. Personally, I wish it hadn't, but it's here now, and there's nothing I can do about it. I need to concentrate on school a great deal more than I've been able to, and that means making some tough decisions. This one, however, is the toughest I've had to make.
I have decided to stop maintaining the Frequently Asked Questions list.
I am extremely proud of all that I have been able to accomplish, for us and for the band, during the brief time that I have been the FAQ maintainer. It has also been a great deal of fun, as any labor of love should be. But crunch time has started for me at school, and I just don't have the time to do what I need to here, and still be fair to you, my fellow Jammers, and to the band.
So, I'm having a contest.
Naturally, I don't want to take this creation of mine (and those before me) and just hand it all over to some schlep like Dr. Mosh so he can go and dick it up, wasting the nearly two years I spent tweaking it. (Love ya, Mosh. :) But I don't really know who should be the next maintainer. So, I'm holding an essay contest. In 1 x 2^7 words or less, e-mail me privately and tell me why I should think about giving all the power and prestige of maintaining the FAQ to you of all people. Whoever convinces me most strongly that he/she/it is the best person for the job will become the new maintainer. Simple as that. Your e-mail address up on top and everything.
I would like to hand everything over on Sunday, February 1st, so try to get your e-mail in by Friday the 30th, ok? (And you lose if you have to ask how much 1 x 2^7 is.)
Respectfully submitted, -d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:07:27 -0800 From: Arash Ashouriha <ashouria@FH-Niederrhein.DE> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT in Festival !!! Message-ID: <34CD6B8F.7FE7@kr.fh-niederrhein.de>
Hi
I read this on the Vanden Plas page : ---------- Festival in France April 98
Bands : Dream Theater, Vanden Plas, Angra and many others !!! ----------- Has anybody more informations about this ?
Arash -------------------------------------------------------------------------- | PROG OR DIE - The Progressive Music Page | | | | DREAM THEATER - FATES WARNING - ROYAL HUNT - SHADOW GALLERY | | | | http://lionel.kr.fh-niederrhein.de/~ashouria/index.htm | | OR | | http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/1748/ | | | | by Arash Ashouriha | | | | ashouria@kr.fh-niederrhein.de | --------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:03:19 -0800 From: "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Rating the albums mathematically Message-ID: <199801262007.MAA20733@baygate.bayarea.net>
> Hey, it's time to calculate once and for all the best Dream Theater album, > and I've decided how to do it. Seeing as how I'm always right, it should be > quite easy. > > First step is to rate each song on each album according to the following > scale: > 4 - A must hear, Dream Theater classic > 3 - Kickass good song, not quite godlike > 2 - Pretty good, listen to if you can take the time > 1 - Skip fodder > 0 - Innocence faded? Never heard of it. No such song.
Good idea. OK, let's see, on your scale Pull Me Under gets a 4, Another Day and Take the Time both get 4's, Surrounded gets a 4, Metropolis gets a 4, Under a Glass Moon gets a 4, and Wait for Sleep and Learning to Live both get 4's, making Images & Words the all time best Dream Theater album. Gee, that wasn't too hard. :)
-Paul
----------- Paul Humm humm@levy.com
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:14:20 -0700 From: "woot" <woot@crypted.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: coming out of the closet :) Message-ID: <000501bd2a96$fe6784e0$3a2746cf@sir.micron.net>
>I doubt anyone here harbors a closet devotion to >Afterlife, but you never know. Perhaps there's something about Afterlife >that they understand that I simply don't see.
<raises hand> I rather like this cut. It was well known as DT's (preFII= ) worst song ever, but I'd much rather listen to this than LFaGA or TOWHtSt= S or even others. I love IF too, Anna Lee was my favorite FII track for a while, and it is still up there on my list. When people tell me that DT would have trashed You or Me were it not for Desmond Child, I hate him ev= en more. ;) As much better as the demo is, it's still subpar, imho. Don't = put too much stock in my opinions though, because I also like Mike's coffee c= an snare. :) Speaking of snares, what's up with the snare on Speak to Me? I don't kno= w if it is or not, but that sounds extremely electronic/triggered. probably just trying more for the U2 vibe again. Cool song though. Not nearly as cool as The Way it Used to Be, but cool nonetheless.
Get high on ether when there's no one in the house. Pretend it's the big one the moment you pass out. That's just rehearsal, but it's comforting somehow To practice dying now.
woot=99
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:51:47 -0500 (EST) From: a thing with a voice <afn39111@afn.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3502 Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980126153918.216279B-100000@freenet2.afn.org>
> No, I mean "personal issues", stuff like "I don't like pussy ballads". It > is apparent from the original post that the poster doesn't like the ballads > that DT does. Therefore, his ratings have no validity to someone who does > not agree 100% with his assessment.
You are laboring under the illusion that any opinions have any validity to anyone who does not agree with the opinioner. Opinions are made up of an infinite number of those things like "I don't like pussy ballads" or "I don't like songs that sound like 80s hair metal" or "I love songs that are so complex that I can't tap my foot to them" or "I like jazz" or "My favorite bands played in the 70s" or ...
People's opinions are different, and the best you can do is find some people you agree with 60%. Remember those people in the Gibraltar Encyclopaedia of Progressive Rock who called I&W a descent into commerciality? They had a point. Compared to WDADU, I&W is many times more radio friendly, from the very start with PMU. (Personally, I almost returned the album, and probably would have if not for LtL.)
DT is moving farther away from that old Yes/King Crimson sound, and that is rather a shame (especially since KC writes some heartwrenching--as opposed to 'pussy'--ballads--compare "Epitaph" or "The Night Watch" to "Innocence Faded," for example, IMO).
> do any of you Jammers happen to know any good sites that contain lots of > stuff about/by the comedian Bill Hicks? I've found a couple of addresses > (mostly in the UK strangely enough) with a handful of transcripts, but I would > be grateful for any good tips.
I have seen two sites dedicated to Bill Hicks. One is called Third Mall from the Sun (I have no idea the http, check Lycos), and that site has a link to GoatBoy's page, which has a lot of articles, obituaries, and the complete transcript to Revelations (including the parts that got cut out for the HBO special).
-=- "I know you all love Billy Ray Cyrus... Fuck, any woman here would fucking almost break her pelvis to open her legs for that mongoloid fuck to drop his filthy cracker seed into your fucking womb. Liar! Liars!" -- Hicks
--------------------==== Broken via True Love ====------------------- http://www.afn.org/~afn39111 Butcher, Rape, Smash to Pieces
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3503 **************************
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