YTSEJAM digest 3524

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Fri Jan 30 1998 - 18:37:36 EST

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YTSEJAM Digest 3524

Today's Topics:

1) The Revealing Science of Krishna
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
 2) Re: Chaos Theory samples
by "Elydian" <elydian@netcomuk.co.uk>
 3) Hotmail woes, subscribing/unsubscribing
by "Eric LaRue" <rycheanviolator@hotmail.com>
 4) Re: [Re: Musicality of the Jam]
by CRAIG GRIFFITH <derfelt@usa.net>
 5) Promised Land and Holy Land, hmmm... (NDTC)
by The Phoenix <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
 6) Re: SV: Maiden's Virtual XI Setlist
by Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com>
 7) Re: [Re: Musicality of the Jam]
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
 8) Re: Promised Land and Holy Land, hmmm... (NDTC)
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
 9) That Cd thing
by strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling)
10) Re: A Change of Seasons & Dead Poets' Society
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
11) Re: Speaking of Rabin
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
12) Jon Finn gig / spleen venting :) / Yes
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:53:45 -0800
From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: The Revealing Science of Krishna
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980130125345.006a4508@pop.cfmc.com>

>From: Bernardo Pulgar <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com>
>Subject: Yes, Queensr?che, DT
>
>I am still wondering who was it that suggested Trevor Rabin as a
>suitable substitution to Chris DeGarmo in Queensr=FFche. HA!
>[...]
>His injection was a nightmare to our ears. Yes has
>never since been the same. Trevor Rabin brought his commercial
>influence, and being very capable (plays guitar, keyboards and
>sings!) started to take over the roles of different musicians within
>Yes. Without Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe, the band simply was
>reduced to the efforts of nearly a single man.

Well, I suppose I don't, then, qualify as a "real fan." And I sure as hell
don't hear Yes with Rabin as a solo project....I don't think I could for
any band that includes Chris Squire. So I disagree with the above.

>Yes albums with
>Trevor Rabin are '90125', 'Big Generator, some of 'Union' and 'Talk'
>are better called Trevor's solo albums, backed with exceptional
>musicians. Jon Anderson fades in the background, Chris Squire in a
>nobody and Tony Kaye is a shadow. It was very sad to see the band
>perform in such a poor condition.

Well, almost everyone puts on a little weight on as they age...

Actually, though, I really love both "Big Generator" and "90125." I'd
leave 'em about with "The Yes Album" and "Fragile" as favorites of mine.
But I also think Rush's best album is "Hold Your Fire" and Genesis' apex
was actually with Phil Collins as a frontman. My prog credentials, whether
I like Gentile Giant or not, suck.

>Mind you, 'Close to the Edge' is THE best Yes ever. They were in constant
push
>and pull to get their ideas into their recordings. Yes were 2 bands
>into one: in one hand you had Jon Anderson, Chris Squire, Alan White
>and Steve Howe; on the other Rick Wakeman (the closest thing to a
>GOD). You can't ask for more.

Hmmmm. Rick Wakeman was a hell of a musician, but to balance this guy,
you've got Jon Anderson, Chris Squire, Alan White, AND Steve Howe? Huh?
In any event, "Close to the Edge" IS a really, really good album. But I'd
leave it fifth or sixth in the Yes canon. And, to cop to it, when I was
arguing the merits of Rush on a.m.p (before the age of r.m.p), I used
"Close to the Edge" as a counterargument to a guy who said Rush had
horrific moments of musical masturbation...I like the piece, really, but if
you're not a fan, it's a TOUGH one to really get into.

>Enter Trevor Rabin and it went down
>the drain. Yes went from being a band regarded a the highest
>standard of musicianship to the best example of 'nil' music.

Nil music? Either we've erroneously got the idea that Nil Lara played on
these albums or that there's zero musical value to them going here. If you
don't like Yes' more commercial stuff, that's one thing, but the
musicianship of the band, even during the Rabin period, has always been
first-rate. While the band DID write stuff like "The Revealing Science of
God" and "Close To The Edge," they also wrote more concise stuff like "A
Venture." Which is to say nothing of the "Vevey"s.

>If TR is to go to QR, then I can predict Michael Wilton and Eddie
>Jackson hanging their instruments and Geoff, you're going to shut
>your mouth... QR better stays as a four-piece.

Queensryche's music really mandates two guitars. I agree with you that
Rabin enjoys too big a piece of the musical pie to probably work well in
this context, but he's the right TYPE of musician for the band.

>From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
>Subject: Re: Weed and the 7 string=20
>
>The original post said something like "If James smokes pot, then I'm going
to=20
>start!" I was the one who replied and said that that person has problems.
I=20
>will not have the pot debate here (I've never tried it, and the pot
defenders=20
>often tell me that I should before I denounce its use. Whatever) but I
*will*=20
>restate that anyone who starts using pot (or alcohol, or cigarettes, or=20
>heroin, or guns, or explosives, or...) because they think that it will make=
=20
>them as cool as some celebrity, has problems that we can't help with.

Not that we need this argument, but does one really have to drink a yard of
horse piss to know it probably isn't the most remunerative experience a
human being can have? And this isn't a pot thing. As my favorite drummer
once scrawled for a concert program -- "I am not an existentialist. I am a
free man."

Five Gratuitous CD's:
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
1. Enchant: Wounded
2. Primus: Tales From The Punchbowl
3. Amon Duul: Shapeshifter
4. Rush: Hold Your Fire
5. John Coltrane: A Love Supreme

Adam D. Barnhart
adamb@cfmc.com
ydnt85a@prodigy.com
http://www.cfmc.com/adamb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:55:44 -0000
From: "Elydian" <elydian@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Chaos Theory samples
Message-ID: <199801302057.UAA25664@avalon.netcom.net.uk>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BD2DC1.6EC23000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> Does anyone out in ytse-land have other samples aside from "Living in
> Fear," "Despite the Waves," and "Ashen Days"?

I have some older clips from when they were with their previous lead singer
(Jeff DiBartolimeo). These clips were the ones that first got me
interested. They are just as impressive as the current ones. Email me if
you're interested.

---

In a world which your mind controls, belief is reality.

UIN: 1491970

------=_NextPart_000_01BD2DC1.6EC23000 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">> Does anyone out in ytse-land have = other samples aside from "Living in > Fear," = "Despite the Waves," and "Ashen Days"? I have = some older clips from when they were with their previous lead singer = (Jeff DiBartolimeo). These clips were the ones that first got me = interested. They are just as impressive as the current ones. Email me if = you're interested. --- In a world which your mind = controls, belief is reality. #4 UIN: = 1491970 </body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BD2DC1.6EC23000--

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:59:38 PST From: "Eric LaRue" <rycheanviolator@hotmail.com> To: paperlate@ansto.gov.au, ytsejam@ax.com, bong@commline.com, fates@tier.net, Subject: Hotmail woes, subscribing/unsubscribing Message-ID: <19980130205940.29594.qmail@hotmail.com>

After having two days in a row where I couldn't read my mail because Hotmail said my account was over 10000k in size, I have decided to move my music related mailing lists to a new account. You can now reach me at paradox7@mailexcite.com

However, I need some help. I need instructions on both how to unsubscribe and resubscribe to the lists. Please mail me privately at either this address the new address, or both.

Thank you very much.

Complete with burning guitars, bashed up drum sets and sealed with a kiss,

Eric Paul LaRue

"I'm the Firestarter, twisted Firestarter."

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/6289

"I dont think thereshould be smiling in rock n' roll. If you smile while you play your instrument, it should be taken from you and smashed."-Marylin Manson

______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:34:51 From: CRAIG GRIFFITH <derfelt@usa.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com, ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: [Re: Musicality of the Jam] Message-ID: <19980130213451.20105.qmail@www07.netaddress.usa.net>

ytsejam@ax.com wrote:

> > I think it'd be great. How many pieces would a project manager be lookng > for? And how long a maximum time should there be? Straight up 2-track > audio tape mixes of the songs, or Zip-disk digital copies? ^_^ > > A lot to think about... If it was done over the summer, I could probably > compile the CD on Zip-disks or something and send it off to somebody like > Mike for proper "mass" production. > > So how about this? > I'll put my bid in for project manager on this. > I've dealt with large-scale productions of real-life things before (I > published -- don't laugh -- a moderately successful collectable card > game), so I'm experienced with compilation of large files, organization, > etc. > > I'm going to be using my computer as a mixing station for my band. I have > a TEAC 4-track (I wish I could remember the name -- it's a mid-range > PortaStudio), so if you wanted to send four-track pre-mix tapes, I could > mix for them (I have the following software -- DECK II 2.6 with many > plug-ins, SoundEdit Pro 2). > > I have the hardware (a Mac 6500 with a 3 gig and Zip Drive) to properly > (with some limits) produce the pre-master sound files and send them off to > a guy like Mike (not necessarily Mike) to be replicated. > > > I'd have the following restrictions: Songs no longer than 9 minutes. > This is a size thing, not something I would decide If I had, say a Jaz > Drive. > > So, if you think I'm qualified enough (or if you don't want to persue any > other options ^_^) I volunteer to do the job above. > > >I know that, due to the > >complementariness of Bafu and Mads that I'd love to hear there stuff, but > >I'd also like to hear anyone else who has maybe a 4-track copy of some of > >their stuff. We'd just have to make sure it all was copyrighted. Maybe > >one of the jammers with a CD'r could even put it all on CD. Come on, > >people, let's hear it. Be well. > >Matt B > > I love the idea, personally. There was a suggestion floating around a > while ago concerning a tribute CD. Why not? Pick a song and go. (Of > course, if we decide a tribute CD would be cool, and since 10 versions of > Metropolis would be a bit redundant, we might have to work on a > first-come-first-served basis for tracks, or perhaps a battle of mp3 clips > or something) IIRC, tribute CDs are fairly protected under copyright > law... It'd be fun, and a one weekend commitment (maybe a little more > ^_^) for each group/artist/jammer. > > I'd like to do it. > > --Matt

I call The Silent Man! It's one of the few DT songs I can play with very few mistakes, and, beside that, it's a damn good song, no matter how poppy.

Craig Griffith: Guitar player, high school student, King of Craigland http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Dell/8509/ "I may make you feel, but I can't make you think" -Ian Anderson

____________________________________________________________________ Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:03:46 -0600 (CST) From: The Phoenix <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Promised Land and Holy Land, hmmm... (NDTC) Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980130153621.12802C-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>

Has anyone else ever noticed the correlations between Queensryche's Promised Land and Angra's Holy Land? For one, they are both great albums, considered masterpieces by some (which is just IMO so I will try to stay away from that side). I just thought I'd list some eerie things in common between both albums:

1. They both begin with a short just under two minute track with no lyrics per se. These tracks introduce the album and establish the mood.

2. Both albums have a semi-conceptual feel in that they are very moody and run along some common themes throughout. These themes tie in with their respective titles somewhat.

3. They both have Land in the title referring to a similar place (depending on your personal definitions - which I will not discuss).

4. Both CDs have the same respective symbols on the cover, the CD, and behind the CD when you lift it up (PL containing slight variations on the tri-ryche symbol).

5. The symbol on the cover is part of a larger fold out picture.

6. Both booklets are 3 by 4 squares (HL bein 4 across, 3 down and PL being 3 across, 4 down).

7. Both albums have a title track near the middle of the track listing.

8. Both have one track that is noticeably longer (around four minutes) than the others (Carolina IV and Promised Land - both tracks also somewhere in the middle of the track listing). Each band member helps write this track also.

9. Both end in a song that is just vocals and one other instrument (QR's Someone Else? having piano and vocals and Angra's Lullaby for Lucifer having just acoustic guitar and vocals [and various beach noises like seagulls and waves]).

Anyone have anything else to add? Comments are welcome! (though this may not get responded to because of the new jammer CD thread - which has my support BTW - even though I don't play an instrument myself).

-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- | Robert Taylor The world may seem flown away | | rctaylor@uiuc.edu Almost as if it cannot be saved | | The Phoenix Will we be able to rise | | From these ashes we've sown | -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:03:50 -0500 From: Eric Rodger <erodger@fore.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: SV: Maiden's Virtual XI Setlist Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980130170350.00b55250@mailhost.eng.fore.com>

>Really love moste songs Harris and Murray have written; might be something >to look forward to!

Harris has written the majority of Maiden songs, but I can't think of many that Dave Murray wrote or co-wrote. Still Life is the only one I can think of by name (and what a great fookin song), but I know he helped or wrote at least one on Fear of the Dark, but I can't remember which. Looking forward to hearing more from Davey.

KAI

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:16:28 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: [Re: Musicality of the Jam] Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980130141551.9351A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, CRAIG GRIFFITH wrote:

> >I call The Silent Man! It's one of the few DT songs I can play with very few mistakes, and, beside that, it's a damn good song, no matter how poppy. >

Noted. For the record, I call Burning My Soul (I think I can get away with playing that... ^_^)

> > >Craig Griffith: Guitar player, high school student, King of Craigland >http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Dell/8509/ >"I may make you feel, but I can't make you think" -Ian Anderson > >____________________________________________________________________ >Get free e-mail and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com >

--Matt

--------------------------------------------------------------------- "..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 14:19:28 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Promised Land and Holy Land, hmmm... (NDTC) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980130141750.9351B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>

On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, The Phoenix wrote:

> >Has anyone else ever noticed the correlations between Queensryche's >Promised Land and Angra's Holy Land? For one, they are both great albums, >considered masterpieces by some (which is just IMO so I will try to stay >away from that side). I just thought I'd list some eerie things in common >between both albums:

I have to say one thing that me pappy always said... "Once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, thrice is a conspiracy"

9 times? There's definately something there... ^_^ Call Mulder and Scully!

>Anyone have anything else to add? Comments are welcome! (though this may >not get responded to because of the new jammer CD thread - which has my >support BTW - even though I don't play an instrument myself). >

Thanks!

> -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- >| Robert Taylor The world may seem flown away | >| rctaylor@uiuc.edu Almost as if it cannot be saved | >| The Phoenix Will we be able to rise | >| From these ashes we've sown | > -~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_-~-_- > >

--Matt

--------------------------------------------------------------------- "..." --James LaBrie, "Hell's Kitchen" ---------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:51:23 -0500 From: strategy@45150.com (Jeff Keifling) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: That Cd thing Message-ID: <v01530507b0f8049b750c@[209.50.100.158]>

Matt ranted on the following:

>>A lot to think about... If it was done over the summer, I could probably >>compile the CD on Zip-disks or something and send it off to somebody like >>Mike for proper "mass" production.

That would give me a good six months to re-write & record my two 1-minute instrumentals. I like this idea.

>>So how about this? I'll put my bid in for project manager on this.

Sounds good to me.

>>I have the hardware (a Mac 6500 with a 3 gig and Zip Drive)

Hail Mac users!!!

>>I love the idea, personally. There was a suggestion floating around a >>while ago concerning a tribute CD.

Nah, nobody would ever agree on who plays what. I think that's what the problem was and it just ended up in a big argument. Stick with doing originals and we'll all be one big happy family :-) I'd rather hear other's material than DT re-hash anyway.

>>I'd like to do it.

So would I. Actually, I'd like to do the artwork.

-Jeff Keifling Design for Musicians: http://45150.com/music

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:06:42 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: A Change of Seasons & Dead Poets' Society Message-ID: <199801302306.SAA00374@daffy.cs.wm.edu>

> Well, now that I'm home and just listened to ACoS, I'll put > here the time of the samples taken from the movie "Dead > Poets' Society".

I would save this to put in the FAQ, but since I'm handing it over on Sunday, all you would-be maintainwers hang on to this e-mail. This is good stuff for the FAQ. -d

------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:12:30 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Speaking of Rabin Message-ID: <199801302312.SAA00392@daffy.cs.wm.edu>

> I just picked up the Con Air soundtrack the other day which he helped > compose. It's really some interesting guitar work, and some real heavy > compositions! He's also doing the music for the new film Armageddon.

So, is Trevor Rabin the 90s version of Kenny Loggins or something? :)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:23:50 +0000 From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov> To: "Harm's Way" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Jon Finn gig / spleen venting :) / Yes Message-ID: <34D26106.6956@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>

There's about 80 or jams in the mailbox to catch up on (just another Sunday morning :), but I wanted to mention the Jon Finn gig I attended Wednesday night.

Jeremy Hallum and Mark Metzger from ytsejam central showed up. I brought 3 friends along who have recently become acquainted with Dream Theater, etc. We sucked down a couple of frosties and munched before the Smokstik (the opener) came on.

Smokstik is made up of a guy playing Stick and a lady playing drums with both of them singing. Not bad, real local kind of act just trying to get some exposure at a local club. About as good as a duo playing those two instruments can get, they were well received. The interesting thing was being able to hear the stick as the only instrument delivering melody. This is one whacked instrument!! Is it a guitar? A synth? a bass? Got me, man :) But I hope Myung uses it more and is downstage center with it!

************ * JON FINN * ************

Mr. Finn: What can I say? This man knows how to out and out JAM!! In the span of a 5 minute song, he will show you rock, shred rock, blues and jazz. And then prog all over some weird time signature thing. He's playing with the audience as he does this, hamming it up. Great stage presense. He opens up with a power chord or something, looks out at everyone. We all know he's going far far away from there shortly :)

Oh, for those of you who don't know: Jon Finn is on the faculty at Berklee (so are the drummer and keyboardist), and JOHN PETRUCCI studied under him. One can see from where some of JPs shredding as well as jazz influences came. A huge difference I see between these two right now is that JF has total and complete command of live performance!

This is not a slag on JP, just an acceptance of the simple fact that JF has been out there doing it longer. I see JP evolving though with each new time I see him perform live. JP does incredible things!

I haven't seen a guitarist improv like JF in 10 years!!! A song might call for some structure; he'd deliver it, but then he would just go BYE BYE for a few minutes :)

Folks, this is the kind of stuff that re-affirms my hope for the music scene. This phenominal talent must be allowed to be recognized in the industry. The drummer was out of his tree!! I don't know how else to say this. I don't have the musical background to describe what I witnesses; I'll tell ya I wish I did, but I had a great time!

It's the same old shit we talk about on here about DT and other even more obscure prog bands: why can't the stuff that we KNOW is good get airplay, recognition, yadda yadda yadda. Well....

Get on over to his web page, check his shiz out. See what you can do to get him to play a gig in your town. I know some of you on the West Coast for example, already know about him and like his sound. E-mail the guy. Let him know we need the goods :)

^_^ wrote:

> My dad can beat up your dad. > So there!

My Kid beat up your honor student.

The Joe Impersonator wrote:

> I think we're all just a little pissed off for a bunch of reasons, > looking for a way to let it out.

> My excuse is midterms, whats yours?

Mine is all this love now between Pat and Al. It's sickening! Enough to make me want to find a way to jump to the #1 on the bad trader's list in 24 hours or less...

Bernardo wrote:

> The best band in the world [Yes, in Bernardo's world] changed > drastically [this seems to be a bad thing which he attributes to > Trevor's arrvial]

Did I read you right? If not, please correct me :)

Sorry to burst your Hating-what-Trevor-"DID TO"-Yes bubble, but Yes changed drastically long before Trevor arrived. As someone who got into Yes starting somewhere around '71 or '72, my opinion is they changed drastically started around '75 :)

After Relayer is when I notced the change. Going For The One, to me, bears no resemblance to the sound they had in the first era of Yes. The difference I guess for me is I still liked it :) I suffered Yes withdrawls in the 80's when I thought I would never see another new Yes release. They were a significant part of my musical youth and I was just happy to see them back together.

Guess I'm kinda biased cuz my brother did some work with Trevor a couple of years ago, composing some stuff for him. I'll agree with you that Yes sound much better prior to his arrival, but I don't agree that you can blame one person for it...

The band that conceives/composes/commercializes/plays together, yadda yadda yadda

Regards,

Jon

*------------*----------------------------*--------------* | Jon Parmet | jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov | 617-494-2851 | *------------*----------------------------*--------------*

------------------------------

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