YTSEJAM Digest 4054
Today's Topics:
1) ADAM & THE MORALS OF BOOTS
by Stefan Eriksson <stefan.eriksson@mindless.com>
2) intel new music festival, nyc july 15-18
by Thrak75@aol.com
3) REVIEWS NEEDED FOR NEW MAGAZINE!
by Richard Karsmakers <karies@wxs.nl>
4) Re: New address n stuff
by 09E@or304.mc.gov.au (Graham Boyle)
5) Re: DVD
by 09E@or304.mc.gov.au (Graham Boyle)
6) MP Interview/DT Concertcast
by WazooDust@aol.com
7) Re: Real Audio
by "Chris C." <chris-76@prodigy.net>
8) Iced Earth review
by "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com>
9) Empty Tremor
by Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
10) Mortorro Guitars
by Isabotage3@aol.com
11) Some funny quotes...
by Michael Kizer <mkizer@goodnet.com>
12) Tourist Trap
by Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4046
by Nick Guadagnoli <progrockboy@linkline.com>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:59:37 +0200
From: Stefan Eriksson <stefan.eriksson@mindless.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ADAM & THE MORALS OF BOOTS
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980710215937.007a35d0@m1.174.telia.com>
Hi all!
In the distant past as well as in recent 'jams there has been a lot of
interesting talk about the morals of bootlegging. Most recently Adam Pye
(Hi there!) has tried to make a few important points. Last jam he went
through it again and among other things brought up the following remark.
Adam wrote: Maybe that's why I object so much to selling boots (I still can't
figure out the exact reason). There's no community in it. Whenever you
trade boots you meet new people with similar interests who are in it for
the music.
As long as you both trade in a timely fashion and do it correctly (so as
to not piss each other off) you know you've got a new contact for boots as
well as
someone you can talk to about topics you both enjoy. It's great... When
you buy
you're just dealing with someone who's in it for the money. Take care all!
(end quote)
Well, I recently tried to express my views on the morals of bootlegging and
tape trading. I submit it here since it comments on a lot of what have been
said before here on the list. But I think that it also explains why money
shouldn't be involved in this area of fandom...
-----
Now, what about feeling guilty about tapetrading/buying boots, and the
closely related questions. What are the morals of this?
First, is is certainly wrong to do bootlegs for profit. Not only do you
violate the law, but you screw other fans too. The costs of making a boot
is very small, still the price asked is over the top. All for profit.
Then we have bootleggers who do limited runs for a selected audience, "from
fans for fans" so to speak. What about this? Well, if the cost for
manufacturing these boots are spread even and no one is doing it for
profit, it still is wrong according to the law, but it is debatable if it
is morally wrong. Here we are in a grey zone and more concerns enter the
picture.
Here I must ask you to reflect about the sociology of the trading community
for awhile. The progressive music scene/movement began as a counterculture.
It was against the establishment and questioned the morals, lifestyles,
politics and religions of its time. Groups such as YES were challenging the
listener by the music, lyrics, cover arts, provoking new ways of looking at
the world, others, oneself. In short: it was radical art which transcended
the limits set by the surrounding society. (In this process a lot of laws
were questioned too.)
The music entertainment business of course tried to make big bucks of this.
It worked more or less for a while. But the relationship was always
strained. In order to sell, the progressive music had to be packaged as a
product, something which was helped if the music was uncontroversial and
could be listened to by many. Suddenly new bandwagons, such as punk and
disco arrived arrived, and so the progressive scene had to adapt or be
thrown out in the cold.
My point is that tapetrading arrived out of this counterculture, in the
midst of this movement, as a way of challenging the entertainment business.
In the progressive movement, music was at the center of the universe,
something almost sacred as it were, something that belonged to everyone and
certainly not any publishing company. Compare the stress put on free
concerts and festivals at that time (the late sixties)... For the business
executives, music was a product that was to be own, selled and made profit
from.
See what I am driving at? People started to trade tapes as a way of freely
distributing music. This was an anti-establishment act and it may still be
one.
Thus, as I see it, one could make a case for today's trading and
bootlegging community on the net as being a counterculture, which certainly
violates some copyrights, but do so out of a subculture's different moral
standpoint. Of course, not all of you will feel part of this, and will feel
different about this stance, but as I see it a discussion of what is right
must discuss it against the background of the values inherent in the music
actually traded.
Bradley Smith writes, in The Billboard Guide to Progressive Music: "The
artist/musician has become a sort of priest, the musical concert a sort of
religious gathering for worship or prayer, and the recordings themselves
sacred objects, or relics." (p 13) I certainly think that live recordings
get this status also, what then about companies trying to claim copyright
on such relics!!
So, if someone makes boots for fellow fans I may interpret this as a
semi-priest distributing sacred goods among fellow believers...
Now, what about _buying_ these boots? Is it perhaps so, that buying boots
is helping illegal bootleggers, and helping them trespassing artists'
copyright in the end? OK, it is not against the law to buy a boot, but is
it right? My biggest worry is not violating any copyright, as seen above,
but two other questions.
First, it is true that these people take a recording they have no right to
and make a profit out of it. What I feel awkward about is paying ridicolous
amounts of money to get them! Because they too make a product out of the
music!
]From my resoning above it follows that I find it highly debatable if one
should buy any boot that is more expensive than an ordinary CD. Actually
tape trading in itself is against this, because it makes the very same
recordings avaliable for a much lesser amount of money. Therefore my stance
is that one if possible should get a tape of a bootleg or a show, rather
than buying an expensive bootleg. Tapetrading - as interpreted above - is
as much against bootleggers turning the music into a profit as any company
doing it. But isn't our tapes used by bootleggers to do boots? What about
that? Well, I think tapetrading is intrinsically _against_ profitable
bootlegging and therefore cannot be condemned on the basis that its tapes
are used by bootleggers to manufacture boots. What about recording a show
then? On my part, I must say that if you think tapetrading is right, you
must extend that judgement to actually recording a show too. Without people
in the audience taping no tapes to trade.
Second, I _do_ have a concern over one thing. It is listening to recordings
that the artist himself or herself never meant to release. Demos and the
like have not seemed suitable to a release by the artist and still I am
sitting here listening to them. Is this right? I do feel guilty over this,
because it seems to violate the artist's right to do with his/hers working
material as he or she pleases. I won't stop listening to these recordings,
but I do not feel it is right. (which make me a hypocrite, yes, thank you,
I know)
One thing that upsets me, is when someone makes a boot out of a rare tape
that was traded with some other fan. Now, there is of course a difference
between commenting on others, and discussing the issue in general. It is
hard to make judgement on many of these questions and I feel there may be
several sides to many of them, but I must say I agree with any condemnation
of making one's traded tapes into marketable products. As said, I even
think this is against what all this music is about, stands for, in the
first place.
Now, a fellow trader recently brought up another question, about trading
blanks. I've never much thought about whether this is right. I suppose you
could put it two ways:
Either: to buy someone two tapes instead of trading a tape comes down to
the same thing as giving money for the trade. In this way money enters the
picture and you do actually sell your recordings (which is wrong).
Or: to buy someone two tapes instead of trading a tape is a way to help the
tape provider do his/hers next trade, i.e. supporting the trade community's
further ongoing. So trading blanks is a good thing if you think that the
tape community is worth preserving.
Which view is closest to the truth? You tell me.
I welcome everyone's further comments on this, whether you agree with me or
not.
Take care all
Stefan
______________________________________________
Stefan Eriksson
e-mail: stefan.eriksson@mindless.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:17:23 EDT
From: Thrak75@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: intel new music festival, nyc july 15-18
Message-ID: <4795818e.35a676d4@aol.com>
anyone else here going to attend? it's a really cool festival. hundreds of
bands playing in about 20 clubs, and the occasional guests, such as (this
year), james taylor, tracy bonham, and jesus and mary chain, among others.
wild koba
************************************************************************
david y. kobayashi
new york law school
thrak75@aol.com
"i bring laughter, i bring music...i will soothe your primal fears." -n. peart
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:19:08 +0200
From: Richard Karsmakers <karies@wxs.nl>
To: DT mailing list <ytsejam@ax.com>, jbroeks=mdblist@cs.vu.nl
Subject: REVIEWS NEEDED FOR NEW MAGAZINE!
Message-ID: <35A5099C.14BA@wxs.nl>
Good day to you!
A new magazine has been put up onthe Web. "World Wide Web Multi Media
Magazine", (or W3M3 for short) supplies reviews for rock/metal fans
(albums, concerts, festivals), users of PC and Atari ST computers
(games, applications and hardware), readers of fiction (primarily
fantasy, scifi, humour and horror) and film afficionados.
With a potential of thousands of hits per day and the ability to add
product reviews within days after (pre-)release, W3Mw offers huge
possibilities. The people behind W3M3 have had over 10 years of
experience in the publishing field, having edited the international
disk-based multimedia magazine "ST News", co-edited the "Avalanche"
underground music magazine and written for a variety of fanzines
("Bacil" (NL), "Metal Curse" (US)) and computer publications ("TOS" (D),
"ST Format" (UK), "Atari Computing" (UK), "ST World" (UK), "ST Magazin"
(D), "Atari Nieuws" (NL)).
W3Mw is looking for reviews in any of the categories mentioned above.
If you've read a book, bought a CD, seen a film or played a game you
really liked (or really didn't :-), let the world know your opinion on
the matter. If you'd like to help us out, visit the W3M3 website and
read the contributors' guidelines.
The W3M3 site can be found at http://www.scriba.org/w3m3. Pay us a
visit!
The W3M3 editorial staff.
-- \===- Richard Karsmakers & Karin Kessels karies@wxs.nl -===/ | "World Wide Web Multi Media Magazine" -- www.scriba.org/w3m3 | | "Twilight World" magazine -- www.scriba.org/twilight | /===--- P.O. Box 67, NL-3500 AB, Utrecht - The Netherlands ---===\------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:10:21 +0000 From: 09E@or304.mc.gov.au (Graham Boyle) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: New address n stuff Message-ID: <35a56fd9.or304@or304.mc.gov.au>
> From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
> Hey, gang. Here's the announcement, for those of you that haven't heard. > After 22 straight years, I have decided that being a student is no longer > for me.
So does this mean I am going to get the tapes that you owe me ?
Graham
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 08:03:22 +0000 From: 09E@or304.mc.gov.au (Graham Boyle) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DVD Message-ID: <35a56fd7.or304@or304.mc.gov.au>
> From: rjurado <rjurado@eiger.com.ph> > Subject: DVD > I've been hoping for this since the live album and video > were first mentioned! It feels like months since I posted > that. I say let's all talk DVD on the jam so that Portnoy > gets wind of it and says to East/West how much we really > want a DVD.
Yeah and how many of us actually own a DVD player ? My guess is not many, but it would make a great beer coaster..... How bout a gig on Mars, now that would be something :)
graham
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 21:15:32 EDT From: WazooDust@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: MP Interview/DT Concertcast Message-ID: <5955549e.35a6bcb5@aol.com>
July 15 @ 6:30 PM =AD Dream Theater interview and concert
* Dream Theater As true rock & rollers, these Long Islanders have been carving their own way with their progressive rock sound since 1989. Now, the world-renowned Dream Theater have made it all the way to LiveConcerts.com, where we'll b= e cybercasting a RealVideo interview we did with the band, featuring specia= l one-on-one time with Mike Portnoy, discussing his side project Liquid Tension Experiement. The chat will be followed by a RealVideo cybercast o= f their live performance at House of Blues Sunset Strip in Los Angeles this past May 1= 7 July 15 @ 6:30 PM =AD Dream Theater interview and concert
It's short, but a nice littile write up=0A
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 20:42:08 -0500 From: "Chris C." <chris-76@prodigy.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Real Audio Message-ID: <000801bdac6d$1ff981a0$a9252581@default>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Adam Pye wrote: >I believe (don't quote me on this) that Real Audio Plus can record, but >only if the stream allows it. The Liveconcerts.com feeds don't do so. >There is, I know, a patch (ie, crack) that lets you record any stream, = but >I haven't looked for it and don't know what version of RA it needs, = etc. >You could probably search for it on one of the "warez" Usenet groups... >Good luck, and let us know if you get it!
You're absolutely right, most sites don't let you record the stream. = Thanks for the info about the patch, I found it today (took me a while = to find it) and now I can record any stream. (I tested it on = liveconcerts.com tonight) If anyone wants it let me know privately. = Later,
Chris Poison page - http://members.tripod.com/~ccpoison Warrant page - http://surf.to/warrant Tape trading page - http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5158
------=_NextPart_000_0005_01BDAC43.35138560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV><FONT size=3D2>Adam Pye = wrote:<BR>>I=20 believe (don't quote me on this) that Real Audio Plus can record,=20 but<BR>>only if the stream allows it. The Liveconcerts.com = feeds don't=20 do so.<BR>>There is, I know, a patch (ie, crack) that lets you record = any=20 stream, but<BR>>I haven't looked for it and don't know what version = of RA it=20 needs, etc.<BR>>You could probably search for it on one of the=20 "warez" Usenet groups...<BR>>Good luck, and let us know if = you get=20 it!<BR><BR><FONT color=3D#000000>You're absolutely right, most sites = don't let you=20 record the stream</FONT>. Thanks for the info about the patch, = <FONT=20 color=3D#000000>I found it today (took me a while to find it) and now I = can record=20 any stream. (I tested it on liveconcerts.com tonight) </FONT>If = anyone=20 wants it let me know privately. Later,<BR><BR>Chris<BR>Poison page = - <A=20 href=3D"http://members.tripod.com/~ccpoison">http://members.tripod.com/~c= cpoison</A><BR>Warrant=20 page - <A = href=3D"http://surf.to/warrant">http://surf.to/warrant><BR>Tape=20 trading page - <A=20 href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5158">http://www.geoci= ties.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5158</A><BR></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:40:47 -0400 From: "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com> To: "ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Iced Earth review Message-ID: <01bdac7d$b15a0c40$LocalHost@default>
Hey Jammers, I was introduced to Iced Earth from someone on the 'jam so I figured i'd post a review of their new CD, Something Wicked This Way Comes.
First off, the vocal harmonies are excellent. The last track has two different male and female chants in the background and adds to the feel of the song. The lyrics as always are emotional but are repeated often. The song structures is nothing big, a constant verse-chorus repeat. The highlight of the CD are the last three tracks, titled as Something Wicked (Trilogy). Those were the most complex songs on the disc and very well written/arranged.
In all, it sounded very much like Metallica's ...And Justice For All, but had nice clean guitars in some parts. The vocals in 1 or 2 songs were low in the mix as were some guitar solos. Despite my nitpicking (sp), I'd have to say its an awsome CD. Good for all you jammers who love heavy metal.
Just my opinions. -Rob, bassicrob@geocities.com Visit my NEW Dream Theater page with artwork, rare MP3's and, coming soon: LTE Desktop Theme. Check the page for the release date! Or visit my homepage for my latest NIN Desktop Theme, bass solo mp3's, and other useless shit about me. Click below to go (cheesy i know :) ) http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/1566
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 14:09:57 +1000 From: Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Empty Tremor Message-ID: <35A6E595.671B1D0C@winshop.com.au>
Arash queried:
> I just wounder, if anyone has recieved the free promo tape from Empty > Tremor ?
> I haven't seen any reviews on the jam.
> The guys needs your support !
Okay since you've twisted arm Arash;
Yes, I got my ET promo tape the other day (after it's adventurous journey all the way from Italy down here to Australia - geez, mail has all the fun doesn't it?) - well on first listen I found myself already fimiliar with all the songs on the tape..... ...hang on, that's because I'd already recieved the full album a couple of weeks ago.
Anyway, not that I'm complaining because the album was probably worth the ridiculous Jap import price I paid for it.
Opinions; any jammers with the opportunity to do so should check these guys to see/hear some really awesome young talent with huge potential. The band is obviously influenced by DT, esp. I&W era - some may say they're clones, but hey - there's worse things to 'clone' isn't there? And it's more of a 'heavy influence' rather than a blatant 'clone' attempt. There's some long tracks like The Message Keeper and Apocolokyntosis where the guys really get to show off their chops, but it's the shorter, tighter tracks like Rules Of Time, MiddleMan and Slice Of Life which have the most appeal for me. This is where the guys really shine IMHO. The last song, To Lose You Forever (a jap. bonus track I think?) proves these guys also have the ability to crank out some really yummy, tasteful ballads - in fact it's one the of the best I've heard, if given the opportunity, I could see this one getting some radio play. Overall, the album is a definate thumbs up and shows huge potential.
Also, as far as 'young' bands are concerned, these guys stand high and mighty and shit upon other 'young' bands like Days Of The New and those fucken pin-dicks, SilverChair.
IMHO, as always.
Luke.
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 00:43:52 EDT From: Isabotage3@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Mortorro Guitars Message-ID: <dcc24737.35a6ed8a@aol.com>
***acoustic- mortorro. someone else besides g.-jack-from-whom-i'm-expecting- vai- stuff-from-soon-bitchass and i must've heard of those guitars. not only would i have to dream about them making their guitars in 7-string, i think those are standard (i know 8 string guitars are optional).***
Well I guess you can call me g.-jack-from-whom-i'm-expecting-vai- stuff-from-soon-bitchass. :) I not only have heard of Mortorro guitars, I have played one, and I actually know Mortorro. He's a marine biology teacher at my old high school. I'm not joking. His guitars are definitely high quality pieces of art. Some of the tunings are intersting on them because they are geared toward jazzy sounds. If you play jazz and happen to have $4,000 lying around, I recommend checking out Mortorro guitars.
Isaac
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 22:40:47 -0700 From: Michael Kizer <mkizer@goodnet.com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Some funny quotes... Message-ID: <35A6FADF.E78A07B0@goodnet.com>
While cleaning up my office the other day I stumbled upon an old Metal Edge magazine (Jan 1994). It had some pictures from Mike P's wedding (He's got a Tux On) that are also available on the cool Dreamland webite [http://www.mothersea.com/dt], and some quotes from the band... In the "Rockin' Roundup" section, Metal Edge asks: "I've never been able to..."
"Miss a Star Trek -- The Next Generation episode" - James LaBrie I didn't even know they got STTNG up in Canada. He must have been using some really big caribou antlers covered in foil to pick up that show. :)
"Play a flawless concert" - John Petrucci Yip, he always tends to make that one little "mistake" subconsciously, because I don't think he could deal with the guilt of having caused all the guitar players in the audience (probably 80% of any given show) to leave the venue and immediately start sucking on tailpipes or driving off of cliffs.
"Juggle blueberries and swallow marshmallows at the same time" - John Myung All right, who's been spiking John's water? :)
"Blow myself" - Mike Portnoy erhmmm. This seemed to be a pretty popular answer in this magazine, especially amongst drummers (Nick Menza gave the exact same answer... better keep those two away from each other! :-)
-- ~Michael Kizer <mkizer@goodnet.com> <ICQ # 2070538> "Enter ivory gates through midnight skies..." - http://www.ivorygate.com Fates Warning~ Island In The Stream / Dream Theater Unofficial Song Book "Everyone's leading but nobody's dancing, you stand on the stage just to turn all alone" ~ Savatage (TWoM)
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Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 02:05:39 -0400 From: Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: erik@dca.net Subject: Tourist Trap Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980711020539.0077e948@pop.wam.umd.edu>
Here's an interesting ad I found in a travel brouchure my folks brought back from Canada... The Rock Legends Wax Museum. Intrigued? Take a look.
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/waxworks.jpg
Anyone actually been to this place?
Brian "Waxy Maxy" Henderson
=================================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: hender@wam.umd.edu ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ His Faithful Bootleg Page: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/ ===================================
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Date: Fri, 10 Jul 1998 23:11:22 -0700 From: Nick Guadagnoli <progrockboy@linkline.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4046 Message-ID: <35A7020A.44A163E8@linkline.com>
couldn't resist. Hope no one gets pissed.
"Contact my private and I'll get back immediately. Bottom line schnipp"
one of those jamz I read just now, but was from dayz ago... heh heh... made me laugh.
--LiquidT Hey-- is anyone going to the august 30 show at the universal ampitheatre? I'd like to get together if we can... I'm driving out from san bernardino to see it... and believe me... front ROW baby.... FRONT ROW!!!!
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4054 **************************
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