YTSEJAM Digest 4123
Today's Topics:
1) - Houston Ytsenight 3 - Final
by "Colonel Mustard" <cmustard@vonl.com>
2) Help promote prog bands (yours included!)
by dseeger@juno.com (Deborah J. Seeger)
3) Re: Seriously (EC: AOI)
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
4) Portnoys from Hell. Sorry, I'm bored. (NDTC)
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
5) Re: Portnoys from Hell. Sorry, I'm bored. (NDTC)
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
6) ytsejam 4122
by Joseph Kostura <josephk@iag.net>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4122
by "Dr. Scott Mosher, allroundniceguy" <ninja@mindspring.com>
8) Like, Bands and stuff.
by "Jon Kretschmer" <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
9) defending producer Shirley
by bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
10) CD's for sale (mostly non-prog)
by Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
11) Re: defending producer Shirley
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
12) NDTC: In Search of George
by Perk1994@aol.com
13) Measures of what?
by Brien Denis O <n8742612@cc.wwu.edu>
14) Falling into Infinity
by John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
15) Elysion/Lemur Voice
by "Younis Hilal" <yhilal@lightspeed.net>
16) AOI Thoughts
by "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com>
17) Just a lot of B/S
by Bert Baldwin <rcb@vectorbd.com>
18) Kevin Shirley and Tot
by Isabotage3@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:54:32 -0500
From: "Colonel Mustard" <cmustard@vonl.com>
To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com>, "Raytheon" <cak6981@omega.uta.edu>,
Subject: - Houston Ytsenight 3 - Final
Message-ID: <01bdbcde$90614fa0$26ef5ed1@cmustard.vonl.com>
--- Houston Ytsenight III ---
WHEN: Saturday, August 1st
WHERE: Hard Rock Cafe
WHAT: Hang out with other jammers from around the area, talk music, show off
your boots/rarities/cool new CD's, eat.
TIME: Meet me (brown hair, shaved, goate in progress, grey t-shirt & jeans,
black shoes) and other jammers in the 'waiting to be seated' area of the restaurant
at 7:00pm. I plan to arrive around 6:30'ish to see about getting one large table,
freshly carved from the mightiest tree in the forest, of course. Bring any friends
you think might be interested, too. Then again, if there are too many people to get
at one table, Houston Ytsenight 3 will probably take place at a nearby Burger King.
:)
Hope to see you there -
- Mark Lampert
cmustard@vonl.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:34:41 EDT
From: dseeger@juno.com (Deborah J. Seeger)
To: fates@listservant.com, ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Help promote prog bands (yours included!)
Message-ID: <19980731.183444.9407.0.DSeeger@juno.com>
Hi all. I just wanted to share something with you and maybe some of you
can help make my dream a reality.
I live in Milwaukee. "Why the hell should I care?" you ask? Last
weekend was Milwaukee Metal Fest. This is an annual event put on every
summer for the last 12 years. Bands from all over the country, and even
the world, have played here. I have only attended twice, but I wish I
could say I had gone more often. Why the infrequency? Because if any of
you happen to have ever attended this event you'd know that all you hear
are run-of-the-mill death metal bands that don't vary much in style. All
day. For two days, if you're really into going. Now, the name of this
festival is METAL FEST, not DEATH METAL FEST or TALENTLESS BANDS FEST.
Wouldn't one think it right that bands from all genres under the metal
umbrella be represented? It's time for a change.
I just got off the web in search of a Metal Fest web page or e-mail
address where my voice might be able to be heard. No luck. However, I
found the promoter's name and address in an old Hallow's Eve tape foldout
and I'd like to give it to you:
Jack Koshick
P.O. Box 54
Hales Corners, WI 53130
(414) 483-7625
Keep in mind this album came out 10 years ago, so I'm not sure if this
information is still accurate. I looked up his name in the phone book
but it seems to be unlisted. If I happen to come across any new
information I'll let you know.
So if you're in a band, or know someone who's in a good heavy prog band,
please forward this information. I did enjoy attending both times I have
gone, but if you know what you're going to hear before you walk in the
door, what's the point? And if yours or a band you know contacted Mr.
Koshick, send a demo, and was chosed to play Metal Fest, please post it!
I WILL be there to support you/them! You have less than a year to do
your homework, so hurry!
Thanks for your time...
Debbie Seeger
DSeeger@juno.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 17:44:45 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Seriously (EC: AOI)
Message-ID: <199808010044.RAA15262@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Ed J Wilk thus begged:
> They use Shirley to make it sound more "commercial?" When's the
>last time you heard something like "Universal Mind" on the radio? LTE
>wasn't close to commercial. Shirley did a hell of a job on LTE, and on
Yeah, sure he did... but it was a prog project to start with... I don't
think he really did much "producing" on LTE. Like slaughtering songs
that were perfectly good to begin with on FII
>FII for that matter. He rocked the house on FII; FINALLY we get to hear
>Myung. DT seemed like they really liked his work, and I hope they keep
>using him.
Yeah, like people have said, he's good at mixing, keep him out of
producing progmetal stuff... If you'd keep your dick in your pants and
stop rubbing it on your keyboard, you'd have known we were not talking about
the mix issue... :)
-The Doc
-- L I S T E N - http://progmetal.gmsnet.com <> drkhoe@gmsnet.com <> "The music's dying, but its epitaph will say... it's not over yet." - Explorer's Club, AGE OF IMPACT, IMPACT 2 - FADING FAST------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:11:21 -0600 From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Portnoys from Hell. Sorry, I'm bored. (NDTC) Message-ID: <004401bdbce9$5252c580$160d84d0@korgx3>
>anything myself, I am sorry that I have been a slackass, but let's see >youtry rebuilding your win95 system without sight. At least the thing runs >faster now. I think I needed the cleanup anyway.
Win 95 and Damon? No offense Damon, but isn't that like the blind leading the blind? <g>
>Dick >Indonesian Jammer
This will place an all new meaning to the ytse-altruism issued on terms of self-indulgence and closed-mindedness in reference to a current debate. Thus the phrase once uttered among the many tribes of the ytse, "You're being a Dick" shall no longer hold precedence as the aforementioned Dick seems to be an honest, open, and likable person from his previous post rather than a floppy, gangly extremity of the male human body. Therefore, I move that we change our ytse-cool-down to "Shut the fuck up, you're making my urethra itch." Do I hear a second?
>and keep the ass-lickin' and sycophantic worship to a minimum. Mike >Portnoy is not a god, he is an amazingly talented drummer, musician, music >lover and appreciative supporter of fan power.
Well, excuse me Mr. Theologically Challenged, but Mr. Portnoy is a god, (however demi). Mr. Portnoy is the Cursed, Foul Fiend of the 9 Planes of Hell, Master of Disaster, Agent of Punguence, Boatman of the River Styx (Come Sail Away, doh!), Champion of Evil... He is (no, not Bill Gates) SATAN himself. Check the feet, they're cloven!
*drools on keyboard* --KorgX3 needs his NyQuil and Sudafed ice cream cone real quick.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 18:52:51 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Portnoys from Hell. Sorry, I'm bored. (NDTC) Message-ID: <199808010152.SAA15947@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., "KorgX3" thus begged: > >Well, excuse me Mr. Theologically Challenged, but Mr. Portnoy is a god, >(however demi). Mr. Portnoy is the Cursed, Foul Fiend of the 9 Planes of >Hell, Master of Disaster, Agent of Punguence, Boatman of the River Styx >(Come Sail Away, doh!), Champion of Evil... He is (no, not Bill Gates) >SATAN himself. Check the feet, they're cloven!
Is that how he plays those four kick drums?
-The Doc
-- L I S T E N - http://progmetal.gmsnet.com <> drkhoe@gmsnet.com <> "The music's dying, but its epitaph will say... it's not over yet." - Explorer's Club, AGE OF IMPACT, IMPACT 2 - FADING FAST
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:46:47 -0700 From: Joseph Kostura <josephk@iag.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ytsejam 4122 Message-ID: <35C29DB7.6228@iag.net>
Thomas Forcier wrote:
"ToT: This is a great album song, but a terrible live tune. It's a song that you just want to close your eyes and concentrate on every nuance. I am interested to hear it on OiaL, but when I saw them in NYC, it was a poor choice with which to close the set."
Was this the NY show where they played it the first time here in the U.S.? Because man, when I saw them in SF it was just an amazing song live. The entire show rocked big-time, but ToT especially just had so much power and dimension to it...when I heard the opening notes I got chills down my spine.
I believe it sounds better live than on the album...it really soars.
For me anyway :^)
Joseph
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:14:29 -0400 From: "Dr. Scott Mosher, allroundniceguy" <ninja@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4122 Message-ID: <35C1DF50.3BA27F0F@mindspring.com>
1. Yo, is that Chapstick or CHAPMAN STICK? If it's the latter, then Myung has got it. 2. Regarding thrash bands, do you mean newer thrash bands, or older stuff? 3. The only *GOD* I know of is Samuel Jackson of acting fame, or Greg Brady. 4. Again the god thing is out of control. You all have to BUY your CD's now. None for free! 5. And to whoever said the new Lethal is too alternative, I say, compared to who? Its heavy, like their last one, and has a slight Alice tinge, but it's actually really good.
C-ya, Scott M
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:01:18 -0700 From: "Jon Kretschmer" <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Like, Bands and stuff. Message-ID: <199808010303.UAA28668@smtp.ucsd.edu>
> On Fri, 31 Jul 1998, Blind Guardian wrote:
> Hey all. I need some help here. My birthday is coming up next month > (early September), and all I really want is new music for my prog > collection. I would like to give a list of albumns to family and > friends, but I really don't have a good idea of what they should look > for. What do you all recommend? If it helps, I live in central Ohio, and > most of the music store chains don't carry much in the way of prog. > Also, I am the only one who has access to the internet.
Oh man...
I love the following bands.
Echolyn, Spock's Beard, Superior, Angra, Vanden Plas, to name a VERY few. Go with one of them and you will be set. ESPECIALLY Spock's Beard. I cant say enough about them.
But if you really want some good shit, go with Puff Daddy. Cant get enough of that shit.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 22:11:46 -0500 From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: defending producer Shirley Message-ID: <199808010311.WAA22885@mail.busprod.com>
blah blah blah DOC said:
>Well, Shirley may be able to make it sound cleaner, but it wouldn't have been >as prog... cause Shirley is the man they have come in and make it sound more >"commercial"... bah
umm no, buy a clue... just because a producer is involved with a project that may ( I say "whatever?") be more commercial doesnt mean that he's going to try to make everything watered down and less complex. If Magna Carta hires Shirley and says "MAKE A SICK SICK PROG ALBUM!!!" thats what he's going to do.
After listening to the quality sound of FII, Awake sounds sick.
>I'm kinda GLAD Shirley had NOTHING to do with Impact. >Shirley should be hung for what he did to TAMP.
You mean make it interesting and less cliched? umm.... I heard the demo, wasnt impressed.
from : Dave (a UK jammer - now in Alabama). >This is interesting - I remember when FII came out and I was one of the >few people who thought the mix was good. There were a lot of people >suggesting that perhaps Shirley should be killed in a freak yachting >accident. Now it turns out he's great again.
Because some people wouldnt know talented production work if it smacked them in the face with a 2X4 which is what it felt like to me when I put on FII for the first time...I kept thinking...
HOLY SHIT... this is Awesome!!! I CAN HEAR THEM!!
If I was Mike P. I'd have a little Kevin Shirley alter in my bedroom.... you usually only get this kind of clean sounding well balanced album with big money bands that draw the really talented people in the business.
I think most of the early bashing was just a result of too many people getting a little shock at the direction the band was going and not taking the change all that well. And of course they couldnt blame the band out of loyalty so they went after Shirley. I'm not sure what people expected from this album, but I heard alot of growth and exploration.. and was pretty darn pleased. Dream Theater's not a stagnant band that keeps churning out the same songs album after album. Some people have a hard time with that... go figure.
Bruce Forst bforst@busprod.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 20:55:27 -0700 (PDT) From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: CD's for sale (mostly non-prog) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980731203401.20600A-100000@otter.mbay.net>
The Bevis and Butthead Experience: $5 Dave Matthew's Band: Before these Crowded Streets (Unopened $10) Faith No More: Angel Dust ($5) Great White: Greatest Hits ($5) Metalica: Load ($8) My Dying Bride: As the Flower Withers (played once $10) Nitro: OFR ($6) Pearl Jam: Vitology ($5)
Please add $1 for shipping. E-mail mattb@mbay.net if interested. Be well. Matt B
============================================================================ ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION! Guitarist in the Santa Cruz/Monterey area of California seeks innovative, experimental, technical, and fun-loving musicians to create works of art and share them with the public. Enquire if interested. mattb@mbay.net ================================================================================= "With Man gone, will there be hope for Gorilla?... With Gorilla gone, will there be hope for Man?" (Daniel Quin) "A dominatrix to the first degree, she'd rather die than set you free, hook line and sinker is what she wants, a nasty bitch she's no debutante." (Mike Portnoy?, Rising Power, Goddess of Pain and Pleasure)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:59:16 -0600 From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: defending producer Shirley Message-ID: <000e01bdbd00$c3b7e360$160d84d0@korgx3>
>I think most of the early bashing was just a result of too many people getting a little shock at the direction the band was going and not taking the change all that well. And of course they couldnt blame the band out of loyalty so they went after Shirley.<
Yup. If the team has a bad season, fire the coach. I thought that was always a little fucked up, but it fits the mentality of the general populace. They always want a scapegoat. My motto is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Well, not unless upgrades are available anyway. :)
Excellent point, though. I do remember Mike saying before the album came out that it was to be expected to be more commercial and that it left opportunity for a broader fanbase to enjoy it. It wasn't Shirley who made the choice to go commercial, that was decided before they went into the studio. Kevin job was just to help them acheive the sound they wanted. He has experience working with mainstream bands a la Aerosmith, Silverchair, Journey, etc. so he is a good producer from a selling standpoint. As for TAMP though, I like both the studio and demo versions. I'm sure the band had a choice as to whether they wanted it the Carribean style or not, and although I feel the uplifting beat does detract from the true feeling of the song, the old one DID sound like a cheesy typical follical agriculturalist ballad.
Anyway... Fuck, I've been posting too much lately, so I'll lurk a bit. --KorgX3
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Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:02:55 EDT From: Perk1994@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: NDTC: In Search of George Message-ID: <8834ac53.35c29371@aol.com>
Hello everyone, Sorry to post this to the 'Jam, but George Nowick (sp?) from Washington, please e-mail me because I lost your e-mail address and your mailing address to send you the tapes.
Thanks, Adam Perkowsky
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:28:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Brien Denis O <n8742612@cc.wwu.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Measures of what? Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980731211935.4665A-100000@titan.cc.wwu.edu>
Ok. Never having studied music, I am somewhat of a moron when it comes to the technical terminology sometimes discussed here on the 'jam. So I'm homing someone out there is willing to seriously entertain this question:
What does it mean when a song is played in 4/4, 7/8, 19/16, and so on? I am under the impression this has something to do with the beat/rhythm of the music. If so, how can you (I) recognize these different time signatures in, for example, CiaW?
Muchos gracias, ye jamiods!
-D
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:33:18 -0700 (PDT) From: John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Falling into Infinity Message-ID: <19980801043318.5773.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
When FII first came out alot of people griped about the direction that DT took with this album. Some said the songs were watered down, others didn't like the mix and so on and so forth. Call me crazy but the day I picked it up, I listened to it all the way through and loved every single song on there. For some reason it had a maturity to it that I can not describe. I have heard the Demo versions of You not Me and TAMP, but I still adore the versions on the record. Is there any one else that simply fell in love with the entire cd from beginning to end or am I all by myself with this feeling.
== John Living comes much easier once we admit we're dying. DT
_________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 21:47:06 +0000 From: "Younis Hilal" <yhilal@lightspeed.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Elysion/Lemur Voice Message-ID: <199808010414.VAA18370@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net>
Hello, folks. I sent Nathan van de Wouw an e-mail asking for a release date on the CD for his side-project, a fusionish band called Elysion. I also commented on LV's new song-writing direction. Here's his reply.
------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- ]From: nathan@wfw.wtb.tue.nl Subject: Re: Elysion To: yhilal@lightspeed.net (Younis Hilal) Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:24:54 +0000 (MDT)
Hi Younis, Thank you for your mail. Elysion will come with a CD end of this summer. If your interested you can order a CD by directly contacting me. The others are musicians I've been working with for many years. They're the greatest!!!!
The new Lemur Voice CD will absolutely be heavier than the first!! But as a general characterization the Meshugga/Pantera comparison is either to narrow or an overstatement.. But for several songs it is actually true.
Take care,
Nathan van de Wouw Lemur Voice Elysion
Younis Hilal--------------------yhilal@lightspeed.net AKA "YoonDog"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:03:24 -0400 From: "BassicRob" <bassicrob@geocities.com> To: "ytsejam" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: AOI Thoughts Message-ID: <01bdbd09$b683fae0$afeccc98@default>
Hey Jammers-
Well, I received my copy of AOI this morning and I agree with the many who say the mix is horrible. The CD can only be enjoyed with headphones on. I didn't notice what Sheehan or Bozzio was doing until I put on the headphones. My favorite impact is 5 but 3 and 4 are ok. 1 is my least favorite and can anyone else hear the vocal resemblance to Weird Al Yankovich? The cd is okay, but LTE blows AOI away anyday. I cant wait for LTE2!
Is this the future of prog though? Mixing virtuosos around in as many combinations creating a ton of supergroups? How about they all go on tour together? That would be interesting. Anyway, enough daydreaming for me.....
-Rob, bassicrob@geocities.com ICQ# 15762800 bassicrob@new-york.crosswinds.net DT MP3 Archive, Artwork, LTE Desktop theme, bass solos, and me http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/1566
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 05:26:17 +0000 (UTC) From: Bert Baldwin <rcb@vectorbd.com> To: The YtseJam mailing list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Just a lot of B/S Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.95.980801052411.13709A-100000@vectorbd.vectorbd.com>
You know, this whole B/S thing seems to be creating a LOT of strife and dischord on the 'jam (something with which we are amply blessed anyways), and it really doesn't seem to be all that productive. It seems to be creating quite a bit of wasted bandwidth, wouldn't you say? Just my two cents.
-- Bert
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Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:37:04 EDT From: Isabotage3@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Kevin Shirley and Tot Message-ID: <56a7369.35c2a982@aol.com>
I thought Kevin Shirley's work was excellent. My favorite move he did was to chop Burning My Soul up. I always hated the instrumental section in the song. It was pointless, aimless, and just did not fit. Especially in a song that is straight forward and filled with rage. BMS sounds much better as short punchy song, and Hell's Kitchen is a great segue way into Lines in the Sand. The mix was also strong on FII. It had more a live and raw feeling instead of a sterile museum like production, which is the problem with I+W.
Regarding Take Away My Pain- I think both versions are average. The demo sounds too much like an 80's power ballad and the album lacks a little emotion. But it does not really matter because JP loves the new version. I remember at a clinic he said he loved the looped beat idea, which was Shirley's suggestion.
***ToT: This is a great album song, but a terrible live tune. It's a song that you just want to close your eyes and concentrate on every nuance. I am interested to hear it on OiaL, but when I saw them in NYC, it was a poor choice with which to close the set.***
I thought it was a perfect finisher because since it was the last song, the audience was tired from raging and could concentrate. And it was also raining in New York City that night. What more do you want. :)
Isaac
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4123 **************************
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