YTSEJAM Digest 3969
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3967
by Christian P Kremo <kremoc@river.it.gvsu.edu>
2) The Truth about 420
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
3) Courtesy & Other Thoughts
by Uroborosss@aol.com
4) Re: Courtesy & Other Thoughts
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
5) Bootlegs; Trading
by "Ryan Whitaker" <David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net>
6) garage sale: CDs in Germany (URL only)
by Andreas Schaefer <jerry@muc.de>
7) hey I got no digests
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
8)
by policast@ic8u81.settimo.italtel.it (Policastro Cosimo)
9) Re: 42-0
by "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net>
10) Gentle Giant/Collectibility decline
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
11) Re:
by Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
12) "Limited Editions"
by Michael Bahr <durnik@ANTISPAMgoodnet.com>
13) Re: "Limited Editions"
by Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
14) Yzzy on the MTV issue.
by AL <al@isd.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 01:38:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Christian P Kremo <kremoc@river.it.gvsu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3967
Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.95.980608013218.25675A-100000@river.it.gvsu.edu>
> From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
> Subject: I still hate women
>
> I won't bore you with the gory details, but the woman who was supposed to
> go with me to the SF DT show pulled another fast one and screwed me over on
> another attempt to go out with her. (Yeah, I've learned my lesson. No
> more of this)
>
> So, in my fury I went to my local music store and bought a VK-7, borrowing
Hey, I know the feeling. I bought my ESP M-2 after being "dumped." I
don't regret it because I like the guitar more now than I ever liked her.
(chuckle)
-C#
The Next D-flat
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 00:04:35 -0600
From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: The Truth about 420
Message-ID: <005a01bd92a3$5ec168a0$290d84d0@korgx3>
An interesting piece of information about Mr. Portnoy. After an extensive
investigation I found an interesting source about 420 and it's significance
surrounding Mr. Portnoy a.k.a. Satan. This is fearful reading, so anyone
with small children are asked to have them leave the room.
Excerpts from The Bible...
Revelations: Chapter >Four<, Verse >20<,
Yea, shall he rise forth bearing the image of the Lamb, yet he be not the
Lamb.
<--(Mike sortuv looks like Jesus)
He shall come forth upon the Earth and bear in each hand a flaming rod.
<--(drumsticks, maybe? He does endorse Hotsticks)
And he shall sit upon his throne and call thunder from the sky.
<--(Drumset, maybe? The drummer's stool is called a throne)
Many shall revere him as a God and love him and praise him.
<--(Hello, people, see what we've done?)
And shalt they be given the mark of the beast, blah, blah, blah.
<--(I can see a 666 in the Majesty logo, can't you?)
Those that shall go unmarked shall be shunned and smitten by others.
<--(We are ALWAYS planning these hostile music world takeovers)
He shall collect gifts and sacrifices from his minions.
<--(He is wanting those banners. DOH!)
And shalt all that worship him be damned for all eterniry, having their eyes
plucked out and tongue severed, and be bitten by locusts for seven times
seven years.
<--(I'm unsubbing after this)
Then shall he call his four dark riders and all shall fear them.
<--(James, Derek, John, and John? the Four Horsemen?)
And on a steel horse shall he ride.
<--(This Bon Jovi reference throws me)
So there you have it. Mike is nothing more than the Anti-Christ. Somehow I
knew it all along. Ah, well. Eiher that or Toco Torres is. :\ Haven't
figured that part out yet.
I'll be checking out Nostradamus' writings to see if I can confirm this...
--KorgX3
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 02:13:24 EDT
From: Uroborosss@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Courtesy & Other Thoughts
Message-ID: <29391116.357b8105@aol.com>
> From: "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net>
> Subject: **Boots for sale**
>
> I'd apprecaite it if you so-called fans that manufacture your own discs
> wouldn't follow this post with how to buy them from you instead. Asking for
> some courtesy, rare on the internet these days.
Ah yes, courtesy. I remember when courtesy was everywhere. On the phone lines,
for instance. But then the Maryland Relay Service started up and allowed angry
elderly folks to call any store they wanted and say vicious or vulgar things
for any reason at all -- or no reason at all -- funneled through the calm,
level voice of the operator, who could not change anything the caller said or
hang up until the caller gave them permission to...
RRRRRRRIIINNNG!!!
*CLICK*
"World of Science, this is Steve, may I help you?"
"Yes, this is the Maryland Relay Service, operator #49, I will be speaking for
someone who is hard of hearing, are you prepared to take the call?"
"Uh...yes, sure."
(typing is heard in the background)
"Do you have Beanie Babies in?"
"No we do not."
"Do you know when you will have them?"
"We get a 24-hour notice from the Ty company the day before they send a
shipment to us."
"Can't you just order them from Ty?"
"No, they don't accept orders from anyone. That's why the prices have
skyrocketed, Ty refuses to expand the supply to the public."
"Awfa cree thalang bo?"
"Excuse me, what?"
"I said, how late are you open?"
"Until 9pm."
"Seven nights a week?"
"No sir, or ma'm, on Sundays we close at 6pm."
"Cling breaking fourteen nice manager?"
"What??"
"I said I want to talk to your manager. Are you deaf?"
"I hear a woman speaking to me on this phone, though it might just be my dead
grandmother back to haunt me... Anyway, our manager isn't here right now."
"You must be either completely deaf or a total fucking moron."
"I'm sorry, what? I think I'm going deaf... Is the Maryland Relay Service
listed in the Yellow Pages?"
"You think you're some kind of fucking comedian? I'm looking for Beanie
Babies, not stupid fucking comedians."
"Ah, but enough about you. What about me? I'm looking for a senior citizen to
knock around like a pinata. We don't have any Beanie Babies."
*CLICK*
But those days are gone now. Changed like a leaf on a tree. Courtesy went the
way of the do-do bird as far as telephones were concerned. And it's happening
again, only this time with the internet. I understand Andrew's concern.
> And for those who say "why not buy the Bahr duplicates?" My answer is, you
don't
> have to wait four months for the ones below.
Are you saying you WOULD have to wait for four months if you ordered a Bahr
duplicate? Well I'm offering duplicates of Bahr duplicates. I call them Bahr
Triplicates, and I ship them as soon as I receive your check. Forget about
cashing the check, waiting to see if the funds clear, and THEN shipping. I'm
all about SPEED. I see the check, I send the disc. I know none of you would
try to cheat me. Not with my bodybuilding brother Joey buzzing around America
in his custom-built Shitcopter, dropping crates of cow manure on people's
houses from three hundred feet in the air with a single phone call from me.
Think about it. Do you want to pay me honestly or do you want Santa to take
the form of a big box of shit this year and come tearing down your chimney at
170mph? (For you metric-system people that's really damn fast.)
> I guarantee shipment within one week of receiving your money order. You
don't
> have to send cash through the mail, AND I send the discs insured and
registered,
> so you don't have to have pesky e-mail battles with "fans" who could care
less
> about screwing you.
I care about screwing everyone. Anyone up for a pesky ANYTHING, get in touch
with me.
> DT - Subconscious (CD-R)
> - Acoustic Dreams (CD-R)
You're selling the CD-Rs of these two? Forget this, people, my Bahr
Triplicates will be worth $80 in a mere six months' time.
> - Home Sweet Home (orig) **SOLD**
DAMMIT!
> - Scenes From A Memory (orig) **SOLD**
DAMMIT!
> - Feelin' Kinda Spooky (CD-R) **SOLD**
DAMMIT!
> - I'm A Homo (orig) **SOLD**
DAMMIT!
> As for a reference, my name's Andrew Forcier - commonly known as Buck
> Stodgers. Ask around. People know me.
I'm people. I know Andrew. Andrew's a good guy. He'll send you shipments of
rancid meat if you're late with a trade...shipments that don't stop for nine
straight weeks...
shipments that the garbagemen won't take...but every damn stray dog in the
neighborhood will...but he's a good guy overall. ;)
Oh, and Phil Carter? Did I forget to pay you? E me if so.
DREAM THEATER KICKS ASS.
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jun 1998 23:55:17 -0700
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Courtesy & Other Thoughts
Message-ID: <199806080655.XAA15949@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before proofreading..., Uroborosss@aol.com said:
>
>I care about screwing everyone. Anyone up for a pesky ANYTHING, get in touch
>with me.
>
I knew bafu was just a cheap slut, all along...
/me touches Bafu
-The Doc
-- "Right from the start I've fallen. Slow motion I try to scream. Nobody hears the muted cries. Dreams are crashing from side to side..." -Living in Fear, Dali's Dilemma. http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----> drkhoe@gmsnet.com------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 02:15:51 -0500 From: "Ryan Whitaker" <David-Whitaker@worldnet.att.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Bootlegs; Trading Message-ID: <000e01bd92ad$5aac9820$4d01430c@dwhit>
The whole bootleg issue crops up so much it's insane. Most threads have cycles of six months to a year, but this is one thing that appears about every month or so. It's like abortion. Nobody's going to switch sides, so stop yer arguing. =) Look at JP and MP420. JP doesn't like 'em, MP does. Both are intelligent people, and they manage to coexist peacefully.
> And the worst part? It used to be a challenge to find a good boot, and a >joyous event to purchase one or just TRADE to get one. Now the "fans" don't >trade tapes, they burn CDs... You'll never know what this music meant to >the generation of fans before you
I don't understand your rant on this one, Buck. The purpose of trading tapes and buying bootlegs, I thought, was to hear the music. It sounds like you're just into collecting, in which case you should try doing baseball cards or something. Burning CD replicas and cloning DATs of taped concerts are some of the greatest things bootleg-wise to come out of this decade. Generational sound quality loss isn't something I crave.
Take it easy, everybody! Ryan Whitaker Scarred Records http://www.geocities.com/soho/2236
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 08:34:24 +0200 From: Andreas Schaefer <jerry@muc.de> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: garage sale: CDs in Germany (URL only) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980608093420.006890c4@mail.muc.de>
Hi there,
I'm parting from some of my CDs (all originals - no CDRs.. / mainly Rock and Heavy Metal) since the collection's getting too big.. The list can be found at http://www.muc.de/~jerry/cdsale.html Prices are only in Deutschmark. If you live in the USA (or Australia, GB etc.) get in touch with me and we'll work out a deal. Propositions for trading are always welcome.
read you - jerry :--) NP: Deep Purple - Abandon -- --------------------------------------------------------------- Andreas Schaefer jerry@muc.de ...bei 200 Grad 15 Minuten backen, und keine Eier! - Tool ---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 00:20:28 -0700 From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com> To: "'Freaks'" <freaks@ax.com>, "'Ytsejam'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: hey I got no digests Message-ID: <30434A6945ABD1119A3A00A024D1C34170A38F@ms.kallback.com>
all weekend. Is it just me or is it ax.com again? Trevor aka wideboy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 10:16:40 +0200 From: policast@ic8u81.settimo.italtel.it (Policastro Cosimo) To: ytsejam@ax.com Message-ID: <9806080816.AA07268@ic8u81.settimo.italtel.it>
Hi all, 2 days ago I saw a very great concert here in Milan,"Gods of Metal". The list of the bands was very interesting ,but he most important was: -Gamma Ray -Helloween -Stratovarious - PANTERA (!!) ..................and BLACK SABBATH with OZZY OSBOURNE,TONY IOMMI... like in the 70's. Last saturday was a great day for me,and I hope that also you can live a similar experience !! The next saturday there will be the MONSTER of ROCK in TORINO with Joe Satriani,Van Halen ,Deep Purple and the best band of the world "DREAM THEATER". I don't know if I can go but however I saw DT six months ago here in Milan . For the people that will stay in Milan these days I would say that wednesday there will be MAX CAVALERA with his new band ,SOULFLY.. This month is full of great concert and i want go to
see all them.. ..i hope.. By from Cosimo-Milan (ITALY)
P.S.:Can you give me some information about new Korn's album? Sorry for my english,but i think that you understanding.. Ciao !!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 03:22:32 +0000 From: "Dale R. Newberry" <drnewb@spiff.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: 42-0 Message-ID: <199806080823.BAA24066@odin.ax.com>
> Aha!! I have had an insight into this pesky little "420" thing. Everyone is > thinking of this in the wrong manner...it's not "four twenty." It's "forty- > two, zero." Ah, well, since 42 is the answer to the question of life, the universe, and everything, that might explain something, but what about the 0? :)
Dale R. Newberry drnewb@spiff.net
"I'm hip about time."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 01:42:56 -0700 From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Gentle Giant/Collectibility decline Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980608014256.008b8a10@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
Ive heard that Gentle Giant is a big influence of Echolyn, and since I love Echolyn, I want to check out GG. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on which of their albums to pick up. Gotta take advantage of the UACM discount somehow. Im gonna get ELP's Brain Salad Surgery as well.
Also, can I get the UACM discount, and then later get the discount on Kizer's site? I thought I read something on the CDNow web page about only one per customer, but I dont know if that applies in this situation.
As for 420, it is Mike's birthday. Done. End of discussion. Bring it up again and I will send Ptacek to get medieval on your ass. : )
As for the decline in boot value, I think it was a great time when I actually felt special to own an original copy of Subconcious. At one time I felt special because I owned #003 of Acoustic Dreams. I think, however, that those days are drawing to a close. With CD-R technology as affordable as it is today, there are a lot of people that dont own originals, dont seek the originals out, and dont care to. I think that is a shame.
No one cares about collectibility anymore. I bought some extra copies of some of the early Bahr boots, and Ive been hanging on to them because I wanted to be able to supply "rare" and "hard to find" Bahr boots when they were in demand later on. My intention was only ever to offer the boots for what the market demanded, but now those plans are pretty much shot. There is hardly anyone left that really gives a hoot about owning an "original," so getting any more than the $25 I paid for them will be impossible pretty soon. I think that sucks, and not because I cant turn a profit, but because noone will feel the pride I once felt of owning a collectible.
There is something really special about having something that few other people have, even if it is a Bahr boot, and it has pained me to see the attitude of our community morph over the years about boots. It used to be that everyone wanted all the boots they could find. Now I dont even care so much about owning all the boots I can get my hands on, because with CD-R, collectibility doesnt mean anything anymore.
I often hear "Its all about the music, fuck whether it is original or not." To that I say BS. If you said to a baseball collector "Its all about seeing Mantle's picture and reading his stats, not about owning the actual card," that person would laugh in your face. Because originality and rarity is important to a collector. When I opened the case to my AD and saw the glimmering silver pen on the CD, that meant something to me. There are only 500 originals out there, and I still feel priviliged to have been around long enough to have ordered and received one when they were first released. It is a real shame that people these days cant feel that same inner satisfaction Ive felt about my collection.
As for whether it is right to sell DT's music that a fan should be able to trade for anyway, well, we have been over that a million and a half times, and I dont want to rehash it. Im just saying that it is a disappointment to me to see nobody actually care about owning original collectors items anymore. I thought that day wouldnt come.
Later all. Four days left of school, woohoo : )
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 18:44:34 +1000 From: Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Message-ID: <357BA472.92E52445@sydney.net>
Policastro Cosimo wrote: > P.S.:Can you give me some information about new Korn's album? > Sorry for my english,but i think that you understanding..
Well for starters Korn are not really the main topic of conversation on this list, as they are not really music, rather an annoying noise :) I have heard that after being forced to listen to their own music they decided to was all too much to bear and have decided to become Monks and join a monestry....
okay I am going on my 98 Rimpac Tour cya's
graham
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 02:21:49 -0700 From: Michael Bahr <durnik@ANTISPAMgoodnet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: "Limited Editions" Message-ID: <357BAD2D.7D1E@ANTISPAMgoodnet.com>
The entire idea of "Limited Edition" CDs is just plain wrong. It just is. That's why I don't hold to it anymore, that's why I frown upon its use by people like Open All Night Records. 150 copies of an FII show.... what if there are 151 fans that want it? Are you going to tell me that fan #151 is not as hardcore a fan of DT than fan #150? Well, only one or the other got the disc.
I made silvers as limited editions for some specific reasons, and those reasons did NOT have to do with making it "exclusive" or any shit like that. If anything, I *regret* that I didn't make enough for EVERYONE. The reasons are that the nature of silvers print runs is such that a set amount had to be made, within a certain budget and a certain time span, and that further print runs were NOT guaranteed to be possible, or even probable, because of the legalities involved. I could not promise Acoustic Dreams silvers for everyone, because I had no idea when I'd simply run out of supply.
Now CDRs are another issue. The fact that I always went by "print runs" before was something that was done in order to facilitate a better ordering and shipping process... and apparently it did not work. My current focus is to have everything based on immediate turnaround and to accomplish this as near in the future as possible. You'll notice that my new Rush titles, which are selling like MAD (D&L, TE, etc) do not have stated print runs; I will simply make enough for everyone.
To sum it up, who am I to choose who the haves and have-nots are, in a situations where I ***DO*** have control of the supply? It was one thing when I was making silvers; I had little to no control, and the limited nature was true and clear. But now, in the CDR era, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE to deny perfectly loyal fans of any given band, access to great recordings such as these. The going rate for such things seems to be $20... in actuality perhaps a bit more to reach market equilibrium ($22? $23?) but $20 per disc is close enough.
For Andrew Forcier to be bitching about the collectibleness or limited-edition-ness of these boots is misdirected and misguided. For something like this to be unavailable defeats the whole point of making it available at all. Back when I got into this thing, I said right to Mike Portnoy with my own mouth that I intended to get this material into the hands of the fans, whatever that took. I didn't say "some fans"; I didn't say "current fans but not future fans", and I didn't say "the first 200 fans that could whip out a $20". I said "the fans." And that means everyone. If you have such personal issues that you need to insist upon the collectibility of items that are scarce, then don't complain if the shortage ends. If an item is truly rare, then it's rare. Original Subconscious silvers are RARE. There will NEVER be any more of them. But current boots are merely scarce; the supply will eventually meet demand. It's the insistence of collectors upon rarity and scarcity at any cost that caused the collapse of the comic market, the sports card market, and more recently the collectible toy market. The discs are $20. (Formerly $25). You'll all note that I have never EVER sold a standard-run disc by Prism from my own inventory for more than the original price. And that's the way it should be.
One way or another, no matter what it takes, the commitment I made to bring back the golden age of Prism WILL come to completion. After all, it's not like I have anything better to do. :) And that means that the idea of limited edition CDRs is dead and buried here, and should be in all similar production houses. Its time has passed.
-- - Mike Bahr - Prism Records - remove ANTISPAM in my address to reply - Duelists' Convocation Level 2 Certified Judge - d u r n i k @ g o o d n e t . c o m - http://www.goodnet.com/~durnik/ - If it's nae Scottish, it's CRAP!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 19:55:26 +1000 From: Graham Boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: "Limited Editions" Message-ID: <357BB50E.9EF5998A@sydney.net>
Michael Bahr wrote: > The entire idea of "Limited Edition" CDs is just plain wrong. It just > is. That's why I don't hold to it anymore, that's why I frown upon its > use by people like Open All Night Records. 150 copies of an FII show.... > what if there are 151 fans that want it? Are you going to tell me that > fan #151 is not as hardcore a fan of DT than fan #150? Well, only one or > the other got the disc.
Mike you are really some nasty peice of work, that still amazes me how you can come on this list and tell us the CD bootleg gospel according to Mike 'I am a legend' Bahr....
It is wrong just cos YOU say so, is it ? Wrong, the only reason you frown upon OAN records is that a. they are in direct competition to you b. they are cheaper than you c. they answer email d. they have a REAL customer service e. they deliver almost straight away
You obviously are jealous and 'frown' upon someone who can deliver the goods far better than you ever can. I also think that you are getting a tad jealous of the almost daily reviews of OAN Records, when was the last time someone wrote a review of a Prism boot say, 'SoC' ? I don't remember seeing one, could that be cos people are still waiting many months after sending money for them ?
Let me tell you this Mike, if it wasn't for the 400 or more people that have sent you money and have yet to recieve and CD's from you I'd have no hesitation informoring the authorites (ie RIAA, FBI) on your illegal money taking, artist robbing scam that you run..
grrrrrraham
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Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 05:34:21 -0500 From: AL <al@isd.net> To: YTSELAND <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Yzzy on the MTV issue. Message-ID: <357BBE2D.A53DE631@isd.net>
Yxxy: No offense dude, but that mail bomb you sent to MTV was kinda' stupid. Now if MTV had received several hundred E-mails from different address, all with a unique, discrete message, it may have done some good. What you have done looks to be the work of one moron. Great way to give them a opinion about "typical" fans. Now all E-mails with the subject "Dream Theater" will be ignored. Just an opinion...
-- See ya, AL... The YTSE Progtologist
Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems http://www.isd.net/astrosch/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - Red Buttons
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3969 **************************
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