YTSEJAM Digest 4018
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Effects, Bahr-room brawls, and my own boredom...
by Scott Andrews <sha3u@unix.mail.virginia.edu>
2) Re: Good thread
by Scott Andrews <sha3u@unix.mail.virginia.edu>
3) re: ProgMetal Origins
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
4) Music that Kicks Ass - none
by "earthblind, starbound" <afn39111@afn.org>
5) Re: ProgMetal Origins
by Scott Andrews <sha3u@unix.mail.virginia.edu>
6) Re: ProgMetal Origins
by "Volodya" <provibe@club-internet.fr>
7) Inner Game of Music
by "Jon Kretschmer" <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
8) Re: "Schnipp"... and Tangerine Dream
by "Max Amundo" <maxamundo@hotmail.com>
9) faves off FII, live 2CD, and Yes
by "Max Amundo" <maxamundo@hotmail.com>
10) "Wanna ride my trolley, little girl?"
by "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net>
11) DT Clips
by "Shane Woolcock" <woolcock@camtech.net.au>
12) Re: "Wanna ride my trolley, little girl?"
by Andrew James Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4015
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
14) Live official cd
by Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
15) Re: Spastic Drummers (was: Dali's Dilemma)
by "Younis Hilal" <yhilal@lightspeed.net>
16) Origins, drums
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
17) DT on liveconcerts.com!?
by MaxArbot@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:03:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Andrews <sha3u@unix.mail.virginia.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Effects, Bahr-room brawls, and my own boredom...
Message-ID: <199806271803.OAA20516@node1.unix.Virginia.EDU>
According to Andrew Forcier:
>
>
> Hello,
> Thanks to James Shields and Scott Andrews. The effect stuff was quite
> helpful as Rocktron was high on my list of choices. The Replifex clocks in
> around $450 used that I've seen, so I'll hunt one of them down. The Alesis
no problem. i have more Replifex comments on my home page.
Washington Music Center in DC sells them for $479 new, so you
might dig more for a better used price if you're interested. i
recommend the music gear classifieds on www.harmony-central.com .
-- scott andrews biophysics research sha3u@virginia.edu chemistry department ****************************************************************** --- http://www.people.virginia.edu/~sha3u --- info & CD reviews | Ibanez | soundclips of of major & underground | 7 string | my prog-thrash progressive/thrash metal | guitar info | metal band ATAXIA ****************************************************************** "metal isn't dead, it just smells funny." -Zappa paraphrase------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 14:27:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Andrews <sha3u@unix.mail.virginia.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Good thread Message-ID: <199806271827.OAA87358@node4.unix.Virginia.EDU>
According to Christopher Ptacek: > > > > However, the Rocktron Replifex is a real good unit. it has eq in > > > it as well, so it livens up the tone so it doesn't sound so digital. This > > As for costs, I expect that you could find a used Intellifex > around $500. The Replifex is decent too.
a couple quick notes, if anyone wants more info e-mail me.
there are like 3 different versions of the Intellifex, older versions and newer cheaper ones ("Online" & "LTD"). these are designed for studio use with full 20Hz-20kHz bandwidth. the Replifex is designed for guitar specifically with high end roll off and other guitar features. Rocktron also has user manuals for most of their gear downlaodable from their web site at www.rocktron.com .
-- scott andrews biophysics research sha3u@virginia.edu chemistry department ****************************************************************** --- http://www.people.virginia.edu/~sha3u --- info & CD reviews | Ibanez | soundclips of of major & underground | 7 string | my prog-thrash progressive/thrash metal | guitar info | metal band ATAXIA ****************************************************************** "metal isn't dead, it just smells funny." -Zappa paraphrase
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: re: ProgMetal Origins Message-ID: <19980627184917.8736.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
Neil Evans wrote:
>What band(s) would you consider to be the > "originator(s)" of the progmetal genre. By > this I mean who was playing DT-type music before DT?
Well, I was heavy into metal back when the term "progmetal" started, so I may be able to give some background. The short answer for this question is "Queensryche".
I'm about the same age as KJLB, so I would guess that I was listening to most of the same music as the boys in DT. At the time that DT was starting, there were basically 3 big players (ie. innovative, highly regarded by musicians) in the metal scene: Queensryche, Metallica, and Yngwie.
On the basis of Queensryche songs such as "NM 156", "Nueue Regal", "Chemical Youth", and "Screaming in Digital", the term "prog metal" started to get tossed around, even before DT was born.
We were always looking for QR style bands back then, which was when Fates Warning (with Ray Alder) got noticed. When Dream Theater came out, every Queensryche fan that I knew became a DT fan. Some people called DT "another QR clone", but that was a gross under-estimation. I'm sure the guys in DT would attest to a love of QR when they were starting out (see: MP wearing a Queensryche shirt in old photos).
Of course the big difference between DT and QR was the fact that DT had a contributing, credited, keyboard playing bandmember. This made DT "more prog" than Queensryche. It brought more of the classic prog-rock influence to DT (i.e. Genesis, Yes, etc.), along with the Metallica, QR, Yngwie, Rush influences.
It's always hard to pin down the exact genesis of terms like "prog metal". Music is an evolutionary process. It keeps progressing in little steps, until one day, a new category is coined. The great artists take all of their influences, and are able to push the music out a little further, into a new area. Many don't evolve the music at all, but simply do a damn good job of making music in an existing genre.
As for "prog-metal", I believe that Queensryche pushed metal into a realm that required a new title and DT went from there and fully defined the category.
Of course all of this is hair-splitting in a sub-category. "Prog-metal" will never be an official genre until it is recognized by the Grammies. ;o) <that's a wink and grin for all of you who are using alternative reading devices>
I can see it now..."And the winner of the 2010 Grammy Award for Prog-Metal is...Queensryche!!!" (At which time everyone yells "BS!", since Queensryche's 2010 release is nothing but R&B ballads, mostly written by that prolific song-writer, Desmond Child.)
my $.07, BH (mine goes to eleven)
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:01:00 -0400 From: "earthblind, starbound" <afn39111@afn.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Music that Kicks Ass - none Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980627150100.00797a30@pop3.afn.org>
There will be no Music that Kicks Ass this week because I'm pissed off.
However, I have something for you that doesn't really kick ass, because I made it. Not sure if it qualifies as music, either. What it does qualify as is a dope beat with samples, sometimes on the verge of noise, sometimes over the verge which I think is better, sometimes a bit too think which I don't think works quite as well.
It also serves as sort of a quiz on progressive and metal. The person who can identify the most samples wins nothing, because I have nothing. Sorry.
It's titled "Enemy of the People" (and with that title, one musical group is mandatory sampling, even if not metal), it can be found at http://www.afn.org/~afn39111/enemy.zip, and it's a 1 meg mp3.
This is revolution-ware, so if you like it, please kill your boss, wife, congressman, a store manager, or anyone else who deserves it. Just kidding, but I always wanted to say that.
-And now for something completely different... A theater tech with a clawhammer. *THUNK* *splat* (Milluminati Psycho) -O- http://www.afn.org/~afn39111/
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:17:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Scott Andrews <sha3u@unix.mail.virginia.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: ProgMetal Origins Message-ID: <199806271917.PAA51974@node4.unix.Virginia.EDU>
According to Brian Hansen: > > to most of the same music as the boys in DT. At the time that DT was > starting, there were basically 3 big players (ie. innovative, highly > regarded by musicians) in the metal scene: Queensryche, Metallica, and > Yngwie.
you left out Iron Maiden, whom JP sites as a major influence, despite the fact that almost all of it was in Em or Am. they were one of the first metal bands to write intelligent subject lyrics, melodic interludes in many of their songs, and long epic tunes. early epic maiden like Piece of Mind was a huge influence on DT, QR, and FW.
scott andrews sha3u@virginia.edu
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:17:06 +0200 From: "Volodya" <provibe@club-internet.fr> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: ProgMetal Origins Message-ID: <000001bda200$2cfe3980$ca629ec2@default>
Kez wrote: And finally, a message to Volodya at OAN. May I be first in line for a copy of the Paris, Bataclan show? God, I hope this is on tape(and not just "official" sources) ;~) Carpe Musica, Kez
With Rotterdam gig it could be a nice 6-cdr box:)
Later, Volodya.
OPEN ALL NIGHT RECORDS http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/9326/oan.htm e-mail: provibe@club-internet.fr
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:11:12 -0700 From: "Jon Kretschmer" <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Inner Game of Music Message-ID: <199806272013.NAA00929@smtp.ucsd.edu>
Mark Peter's post:
>> On a DTC note: I picked up "the inner game of music" at the >> local library (Petrucci listed it as his favorite book)
> Yup. We watched a fairly humorous video that the author made based on > the book in one of my music ed classes at school. It was geared to > band/orchestra, but the concepts are applicable to any music. The author > got the idea from a book called "The Inner Game of Tennis" that used the > same concept for improvement and learning.
And the author is Barry Green, an acoustic bass player based in and around the bay area. Ive met the guy on a few occasions, but didnt realize that he was THE Barry Green of said book until later. He fills in with the San Francisco Symphony here and there too, if I remember correctly.
Jon
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:17:43 PDT From: "Max Amundo" <maxamundo@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: "Schnipp"... and Tangerine Dream Message-ID: <19980628011744.29055.qmail@hotmail.com>
You wanted another misinturpreted lyric? From "Take Away My Pain", this one had me rolling. "I'm not farting anymore" "I'm not fourteen anymore". My dad said that one.
...And once again, will all TANGERINE DREAM listeners please let us know about it? It looks like there it be a problem for me getting the jams from now on! For those of you who know about them, my favorites are "Rockoon" and "Tournado", and my earliest TD CD is "Poland: The Warsaw Concert". Please feel free to ask me any questions about this great progressive electric-rock band, whether you know them or are just interested.
ThanX, -MAX AMUNDO =^..^=
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 18:59:04 PDT From: "Max Amundo" <maxamundo@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: faves off FII, live 2CD, and Yes Message-ID: <19980628015904.24579.qmail@hotmail.com>
> Hi all I just joined this list. I have also just become a DT > fan after buying FII. I bought it because I heard burning my soul and > You not me on the radio and I found out I like all the songs on the CD. > My favorite song on the CD is probebly lines in the sand or > trail of tears. whats everyone elses? > > Andrew
My favorites from FII would havw to be: New Millennium, Peruvian Skies, Hell's Kitchen, and Trial Of Tears. I love the power of the slow ones, just not the parts that are slow WITHOUT the power... MAN, I want to hear the demo version of "Take Away My Pain"!
Are they going to put "Metropolis Pt. 2" on the live 2CD? That would just be Multi-Frigging-Pass! [for those uf you that don't know, that means like awesome beyond awesome... watch The 5th Element... Milla...;-) ]
Okay, on to Yes, I think "90125" and "Talk" are just great. "Big Generator" is pretty weak except for a couple songs. Now here's when I start getting hate mail... I heard "Fragile" and "Union", and I think they're both really boring. I mean, they have really cool sections in them, but they just get really old. Now, once you've gotten beyond the shock of that, can anyone please tell me about "Open Your Eyes"? The few things I've heard about it are pretty good... but then "Fragile" is supposed to be so great, and I guess it was for the time, but I just hate it when you have to TRY to keep from being bored. Some of my favorite bands are the masters DT, Queensryche, Fates Warning, KMFDM, Depeche Mode, and of course Tangerine Dream. That might help.
ThanX, -MAX AMUNDO
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:42:42 -0600 From: "KorgX3" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: "Wanna ride my trolley, little girl?" Message-ID: <000c01bda23e$77bba460$350d84d0@korgx3>
> Okay, on to Yes, I think "90125" and "Talk" are just great. "Big >Generator" is pretty weak except for a couple songs. Now here's when I
Now there's a band I was never able to really get into... Could someone please point me to a "Yes" beginning audiophile site or something? The only albums of their I've heard are 90125 (which I liked, mostly cuz I recognized Owner of a Lonely Heart), Big Generator (which I dub "Big Yawn"), and Union (which was OK, but I never got into it), and Tales of the Topographic Oceans (waaay too off the wall for me yet). What would be the best starter for me since my favorite stuff is like Savatage and Asia of late. A good Geoff Downes/Steve Howe album would probably help because of the relation factor (since I like Asia alot). Point me too a good Genesis album that's not really off the wall, cuz I love Calling All Stations.
I really need to get into a new band. Yes just has too many albums to choose from and I'm lost. :)
Thanks! --Korgito Burrito "X" tres. "Can you say 'hydroxypropylmethylcellulose'? I knew you could..." -Mr.Rogers on tour at the Suave hair products manufacturing facility.
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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 12:28:27 +0930 From: "Shane Woolcock" <woolcock@camtech.net.au> To: "YtseJam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: DT Clips Message-ID: <001901bda240$a1ce4b20$649017cb@shane>
Hi All, Does anyone know where I can download video clips of DT material?
-------------------------------------------------------------------- Shane Woolcock - woolcock@camtech.net.au WWW - http://members.xoom.com/samah/ "Wearing apathetic displays, Sharing flesh like envy in cages..." - DT --------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 20:08:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew James Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: "Wanna ride my trolley, little girl?" Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980627200507.2726B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
As for a Geoff Downes/Steve Howe album, get the Yes album entitled "Drama." It's sort a Yes album with an asterisk, as it's the only one without Jon Anderson's signature vocal style. However, I think it's a great album, with Downes doing some great stuff and Howe, Squire, and White in fine form. The replacement for Anderson, Trevor Horn, is decent, and I actually enjoy his vocals.
As for other Yes albums, I would recommend either getting "The Yes Album" or "Fragile" to begin with. "Relayer" is somewhat out there, and the stuff before TYA is a very different style, and "Tales from the Topographic Oceans" takes awhile to get into. If production is a problem (sometimes I find it hard to get into older albums because of the way they sound) then I would suggest picking up "Keys to Ascension I" as it has a good amount of old Yes live tracks done fairly well, and two studio tracks that I really like a lot. "Keys to a Ascension II" has some good studio tracks on it too, and the live tracks aren't bad. Also, the live album "Yessongs" is great, but the sound is a little shoddy, but it's worth it alone to hear Rick Wakeman's keyboard solo section. Just my two cents.
Andrew
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:52:44 -0500 (CDT) From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4015 Message-ID: <199862805112141@ix.netcom.com>
>>"Death is the first dancing turtle" "Death is the first dance eternal"
But from the new one's there's a threat: "You ask me where's my hairspray:" "You ask why my hair's gray."
I love that, too, but the turtle? That's great. Has anybody some more??<<
Howabout
"Life in detox" "Lies ten feet tall"
"Its well erected" "Its well overdue"
both from New Millennium
I dunno, does anyone else here these misquotes or is my hearing just bad?
Matt
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:59:37 -0500 (CDT) From: Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Live official cd Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.980627235907.59062A-100000@academ07.mty.itesm.mx>
WOW, a 3 and a half hour show......imagine what Rush put up with all of their TFE tour! Mabe in a couple of years (and a couple of more albums too) DT will start making this kind of touring....i hope! Cool! a double live cd! That s 2 and a half hours of music off a 3 and a half hour show......i couldnt take away any songs to fit the 2 cds format if i had to, you guys have tough decisions to make! Now, dont tell me that the japanese version will contain 3 cds with the damn full show.....Japan always get the good stuff!
Mauricio
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Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 23:01:44 +0000 From: "Younis Hilal" <yhilal@lightspeed.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Spastic Drummers (was: Dali's Dilemma) Message-ID: <199806280535.WAA01350@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net>
> From: "Mike Patrick" <mepatric@indy.net> > > Hey, I like drumming too, but there's a fine line between an active drummer > who augments the band and one who steps all over them. Hehe. Probably. To my ears, though, I've never heard a drummer stepping all over the band. I just have no idea what an "overactive" drummer would sound like. > > I love Paul Craddick and I love Enchant, but there are places - maybe not > so much with 'Wounded', but certainly with 'Blueprint' - where I find > myself asking if he's the only guy in the band. I mean, he's THAT out > front. Well...that's actually the biggest reason I prefer Blueprint over Wounded. On Blueprint, the band (especially my man Craddick, hehe) are obviously cutting loose on their playing. There's a lot of pretty lively sections on that CD. Wounded, I'd say, is a more "song-oriented" CD. Unfortunately, this means that the overplaying takes a back-seat in favor of a more toned-down (or what most ppl seem to call "more mature", hehe) style of playing. Basically, the song takes precedence over the playing. Ah, well, shit happens. > > Speaking of active drummers who make perfect choices and never override > their bandmates, I can think of two guys who I'm nuts about that rarely get > any mention: > > Kevin Soffera, ex of Shadow Gallery. Man, his playing on 'Carved in Stone' > is really amazing. Big loss for them. Yep, couldn't agree more. On my first listen to CiS, I disliked the vocals, and I thought the bass guitar was barely audible at times (then I check the CD booklet and find out that the bassist himself did the mix; go figure!). But I really dug their instrumental sections, and thought Soffera's playing was awesome. So, I'd recommend the CD to anybody. Another Soffera CD I'd recommend: "Introspection" by Greg Howe (guitarist). Features a bassist by the name of Alsamad Caldwell. Never heard of him before, but damn can that dude play. Fuck, solos and everything. Oh, yeah, and the songs are OK, too:). > > Nathan van de Wouw of Lemur Voice. His leading the band through time > changes on 'Insights' would make Mike P. blush. Not really - Mike is still > THE MAN, but the Lemur Voice album is just so intense. Hehe. The first time I heard this CD (through iparty, courtesy of that moshing doctor), the bass player just jumped right out at me. Decided right then to buy the CD. After listening to the drumming, I think Nathan's cymbal-work his great, and I really love his choice of phrasing. As with SG, I also really dig their instrumental sections. > > I just think it takes WAY more than a mastery of 16th and 32nd notes on > double bass to make a prog metal drummer. You're right there, too. But a drummer with an aggressive playing style (i.e. one who's always changing the way a melody is phrased, or changing the accent pattern played on they cymbals, or maybe playing a whole song in a different time signature than the rest of the band) can make a piece a hell of a lot more interesting to listen to. For damn sure, that's gonna guarantee that I buy that CD.
Talk to you later. Younis Hilal------------------yhilal@lightspeed.net
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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 00:08:53 -0700 From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Origins, drums Message-ID: <199806280711.AAA03536@cats.ucsc.edu>
Hm. Am I the only one who heard I&W and said "THIS IS WHAT I"VE BEEN WAITING FOR, AND I DID KNOW IT?" -- before I ever heard the term "Progressive Metal" I had coined it in my head as what I wanted to listen to. Fav bands before DT: Metallica, Queen, with Yes and ELP making quick uprisings. I dunno. I was so happy when I heard I&W since I felt that, with DT out there, I didn't have to go invent the genre myself. :)
Drumming: Someone mentioned Kevin from Shadow Gallery. What's so special about his drumming? I've always foudn the drums on CiS to be rather lackluster, like he's just keeping a beat, even in odd times. I imagine him with a sort of bored look on his face, thinking "i'd rather be flossin gmy cat than playing these drums". If someone can point out some impressive drumming of his, I'll go relisten, but I just never heard it.
~Chris
__ /\ __ Chris Oates: aspect@cats.ucsc.edu __\/__\/__ +---- \_||_/ | "Still awake, I continue to move along, cultivating my | ./__||__\ | own nonsense" -Dream Theater, "Trial of Tears" | // \ | \\ ----+ \| http://www2.ucsc.edu/people/aspect/
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Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 04:23:10 EDT From: MaxArbot@aol.com To: Ytsejam@ax.com Subject: DT on liveconcerts.com!? Message-ID: <f0a25b04.3595fd70@aol.com>
Hey, I heard a rumor that DT was going to be on liveconcerts.com via live Real Audio stream the fifteenth of June. Anyone know if this is the real deal?
If it is, I better start downloading... ;o)
[eriC]
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4018 **************************
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