YTSEJAM Digest 3592
Today's Topics:
1)
by "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
2) Re: This Is How We Shred
by Carol Dellinger <coldfire@pacbell.net>
3) Yngwie's Name...
by "Dario Pepe" <d.pepe@tuttocitta.it>
4) Re:Megadeth
by Angus53 <Angus53@aol.com>
5) cds and guitars
by Chris Bowsman <cbowsma@pop3.utoledo.edu>
6) Re: Drummers and Guitars
by Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org>
7) SYNTH !
by "Marco Anastasi" <rd@tau.it>
8) Savatage
by Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com>
9) Re: Maturity
by JKorby1973 <JKorby1973@aol.com>
10) Couple things...
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3591
by Htdmhd <Htdmhd@aol.com>
12) Shredology
by someone@prognosis.com
13) Attention: Hafiz Mawji
by Jeremy Aaron Smith <js013b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
14) Ing-vay??
by 015691b@dragon.acadiau.ca (Rick Barkhouse)
15) playing really fast!
by "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net>
16) Re: Shredology (sweep-licking in particular)
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
17) Guitarists and the sarcastically challenged
by "Timothy P. Shough" <hounddog@nji.com>
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 18:13:58 -0500
From: "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980301181357.006e85dc@maila.wm.edu>
Eckie speaketh:
>> that if there was no DT (prog gods forbid) what would you have in your
10 cd
>> cd player? (i do not have one, but this is after all just pretend... no
more
>> then 10 we dont want to scare people now with all ur cds)
>Savatage. An' lots of it.
<snip>
>~It's an ECKIEEEEE BALLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEET!!!
You are awesome man. Not only do you mention Savatage, which commends you
anyway, but you also manage to worm in another Eckiefunny.
Rock on,
Alex
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 15:36:49 -0800
From: Carol Dellinger <coldfire@pacbell.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: This Is How We Shred
Message-ID: <34F9F110.C2E@pacbell.net>
> Good: Ansel Adams displays a BETTER command of black and white contrast than
> Mark Seliger. Bad: Ansel Adams is a BETTER photographer than Mark Seliger
> because of his command of black and white contrast. Worse: Ansel Adams is the
> BEST photographer.
> I know someone will, but I figured I'd ask anyway - "Anyone care to comment?"
>
> Bafuborosss
Sure....the fact that you mention someone as awesome as Ansel
Adams...makes you A-OK in my book!
-- Hearts away.......Coldfire coldfire@pacbell.net ICQ: 4656934 http://www.dreamt.org/spocksbeard/coldfire
"And all this could be just a dream so it seems, I was never much good at good-bye."
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Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 00:43:12 +0100 From: "Dario Pepe" <d.pepe@tuttocitta.it> To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Yngwie's Name... Message-ID: <01bd456b$cc6c2aa0$8d826ec3@hansolo>
Hi all,
> I am pretty sure "Yngwe" is pronounced "Ing-vay". If i am wrong, does > anyone else have any clue?
I saw him live two times... and both times he called himself "Ing-Vee"... Well... after all he's Swedish!!!
Goodbye, Dario Pepe d.pepe@tuttocitta.it http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/4371/
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:42:42 EST From: Angus53 <Angus53@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re:Megadeth Message-ID: <675a5c88.34f9f275@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-01 18:29:01 EST, you write:
<< Subject: Megadeth's Cryptic Writings >> I must agree with you that Cryptic Writings is one of their better albums. I have the 4 that you mentioned, plus So far so good so what, Rust In Peace, and Peace Sells Whos Bying. Although Rust in Peace is My all time favorite Megadeth album, CW is a close second. Very close. Later
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 19:00:13 -0500 From: Chris Bowsman <cbowsma@pop3.utoledo.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: cds and guitars Message-ID: <34F9F68D.C2BBBFA@pop3.utoledo.edu>
in heavy rotation is (without dream theater, as stated before) is... metallica nine inch nails marilyn manson korn deftones coal chamber david bowie primus electric hellfire club prong testament foo fighters sepultura coltrane ice cube and lots of other shit by the way...is there anybody out there besides me who does NOT play an ibanez guitar? I have a Jackson PS4, a Yamaha RGX121D and a '69 Fender Mustang, for the record...
chris
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 18:13:13 -0600 From: Tom Cox <lexine@rollanet.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Drummers and Guitars Message-ID: <34F9F999.1F78@rollanet.org>
EXcuse me,
but I believe I was speaking of MARSHALL AMPS in particular, and the way they sound different with different power tubes. I have jammed with a LOT of different guitarists and, IMHO, ithink that an older Marshall(JCM series are pretty good) with EL34s kick the holy crap out of most of the newer Marshalls that have 6L6s(5881s). The EL34s are extremely heavy, but its not real easy to get a super clean sound out of them though.
Yes, I am a drummer, but I also happen to play keyboards and have been on the club scene for the past six years straight. No, I am not a guitar player, but every one I've played with in a band or am just friends with, I have payed attention to what's going on, so I do know a little about what a good amp should sound like. My current guitarist plays through 3 Marshall stacks, and each head is an older JCM 900 with EL34s- and I'll tell you what, it will pack your lunch for ya.
and BTW, I didn't post that damn Yngwie thing because I'm a fan of his, I do like SOME of his chops, and I hate his rythm stuff. But I live in a smallass hick town that is very deprived of music(good music) and it just didn't seem all that productive to bash someone that at the very least knows how to play a decent guitar solo. I know I was just a lot too pissy about it, but its kind of hard sometimes when you get country music shoved in your face everywhere you turn.
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 18:32:50 +0100 From: "Marco Anastasi" <rd@tau.it> To: "YtseJam" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: SYNTH ! Message-ID: <01bd4538$0e8934c0$d756f3c2@mau.omnia.it>
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Does anyone here play Synth ? I'd like to exchange opinions with other synth players in prog bands... I need some information about METROPOLIS and the sounds used in it... = Can anyone help me ? Thanx [Mav] [Dream Theater Rules !]
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Does anyone here play = Synth=20 ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>I'd like to exchange = opinions with=20 other synth players in prog bands...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>I need some information = about=20 METROPOLIS and the sounds used in it... Can anyone help me = ?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanx</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial=20 size=3D2> &nbs= p; <FONT=20 color=3D#000000>[Mav]</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT = color=3D#000000>[Dream Theater=20 Rules !]</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:28:16 -0200 From: Marcelo Vanzin <vanzin@geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Savatage Message-ID: <34CD1C10.CC59D871@geocities.com>
Hey there ye jammanoids!
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@dijkstra.ime.usp.br> > Subject: Re: hear ye hear ye!
> The Trans Siberian Orchestra (ok, I know it's a parallel project, but > WFT?), Cynic... And many, many others.
When am I gonna definitely get you into Savatage??? You can't say I haven't tried to. :) They have all the best in TSO and a lot more!
And, talking about them, I can't believe it! We're getting Savatage here this month!!! And, if just the normal gig was not enough, we're getting an acoustic show!!! I lost Stratovarius' acoustic show last year because of the price, but it surely won't happen this time!!! Man, is that cool. :)
-- []'s /**********************************************\ |* Marcelo Vanzin *| |* vanzin@geocities.com *| |* http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/6308/ *| \**********************************************/
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:34:19 EST From: JKorby1973 <JKorby1973@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Maturity Message-ID: <dcfd65f.34f9fe8e@aol.com>
"My daddy can beat up your daddy!" "No way!! My daddy can beat up YOUR daddy!!! -Sorry, I just felt the need to add my own bit immature nonsense to this list. Thanks.
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 98 18:46:56 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Couple things... Message-ID: <34fa018025c8005@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
This post is entirely useless, but I just had to mention a couple things.
First, the last couple day's worth of Jams are just about the funniest stuff I've seen in a *long* time...
Second, I was playing pool last night at a local pool hall (yeah, where the hell else would I be playing pool), and the played Voices. This really shocked me. It was some kind of house mix, not a radio station or jukebox. It was dance and alternative most of the night, but they started working in some Queensryche, Metallica, stuff like that later on. Pretty damn cool.
-Brian
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:05:12 EST From: Htdmhd <Htdmhd@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3591 Message-ID: <1228d956.34fa05ca@aol.com>
As far as CD's go, let's not forget KISS, Ted Nugent, Aerosmith (pref.70's), SRV, Sevendust, Black Sabbath, Fear Factory, Machine Head, and Pantera.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 19:15:35 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Shredology Message-ID: <199803020113.RAA14746@odin.ax.com>
> From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> > Subject: This Is How We Shred > > LONG DISCLAIMER: Before I have fun, let me just say that despite all the
There you have it. This is why Bafu and I have been able to discuss guitar playing peacefully, even though we play dramtically differently, and draw our influences from (until recently) dramatically different sources. There are objective facts within the making of music... like "Dream Theater is a band," "Paul Gilbert Picks Faster Than You Do," "Tapping requires different efforts and coordination than picking" or "Al DiMeola is a more accurate picker than David Chastain." These are things that can be debated, but the debate is quickly ended by refering to recordings or whatever. We are both also able to figure out when someone is making an opinion statement or a value judgement and not trying to say "This is how it is."
Beyond Bafu's "Schools of Speed" division, which I generaly agree with (without getting too philosophical and being forced to find exceptions to his rules) there are other noteworthy things that non guitarists or newer guitarists might want to know about how most shredders and shred fans compare and contrast different players and styles.
1). Complex multi-finger tapping (Ron Thal once called it Octodigital technique) is equal to or greater than alternate picking, which is equal to or greater than sweep picking, which is greater than regular Eddie Van Halen style tapping. Some people will reverse the first two techniques and make Alternate picking number one. Legato playing can be placed in any of these categories, because of its inherent versatility, and its variety of technical difficulty.
2). Any extreme of sloppiness tends to degrade the music to the point where one rarely considers the player a technical master, and thus, rarely a shredder. That player may still be great, like Alex Lifeson, and may be admired, but the egotist shredders will look down on the player, and the Good Guy shredders will try to learn what the guy is doing RIGHT and learn from that, in hopes of one day being able to combine the player's greatness with the technical mastery generally equated with shred.
3). The most important thing in shred, beyond speed, beyond chops, and beyond wearing the cooler Pirate shirt, is to do something that sounds new... something that sounds different from what everyone else is doing. This can be in a compositional manner, where you can tell by the sound of the piece that it was written, say, by Todd Duane, or from a technical manner, where the playing itself just sounds like a player... a signature sound. Petrucci now clearly has an unmistakable fingerprint in his sound... Vai has always had this, as has Morse. Having your own fingerprint is the highest pinnacle you can rise to. It means your guitar playing is as expressive and unique as your human voice.
4). Not everyone understands things from the same perspective. Some guys will hear a fast lick, and think it's amazing, and then hear a slightly slower lick, and think it's only okay, when the first lick is simple, and the second is impossible. When you hear something and are completely baffled by it, in all ways, it's the WTF factor coming into play. Holdsworth, Thal, and occasionally guys like Bellas regularly invoke the WTF factor upon the collective of guitarists. Petrucci doesn't... he plays things that have "style" in the way that Vai has "style" but they're generally readily transcribable, and understood conceptually. When you realize that you're discussing a piece with someone who doesn't understand how complicated that piece is, it's best to just drop it and move on to another topic, unless that person expresses interest in learning what they're missing. For example, I played some of John McLaughlin's "Que Alegria" in iparty for some jammers, and a few of them basically said "So what? When does it get heavy? What's so good about this?" I knew, by this rule, that it was time to just give them some of Michael Romeo's "The Dark Chapter" (neoclassical shred) to mollify them.
> notes at a particular speed rather than quick bursts only. Ever met a > guitarist who can only play fast for about thirty seconds?
There are very few people who can play a shred passage greater in length than 30 seconds, without rests (the musical kind, not the "Gee... I'm tired" kind) that don't sound stupid. Even the greatest classical shred employs a mix of note values and rests (Bach harpsichord pieces, and Paganini's Caprices as examples).
> DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE. NOT EVERYONE CAN PLAY FAST.
Believe it. Everyone who practices the right things can learn to play fast in one way or another. Offer an example to prove that wrong. I have never met someone who has practiced speed fundamentals and not become a reasonably fast player. > guitarists hang up their axes. I'll probably never be able to play an > Impellitteri solo (not unless I tune the world like in "Dark City" and record > a solo with the rest of the world travelling at half-speed or stopped > completely, there ya go Chris :) ) but fortunately I'm not convinced that > speed is everything and can remain in perfect tranquility with my music > collection. There isn't much to say about this school of shred because it's a > nirvana that few speed-loving guitarists ever reach, though I hear smoking > crack will bring one closer to such perfection...
This is where you come to, I assume, once you reach the level of a Gilbert or a Malmsteen... the question is, do you continue to focus on technique, or do you consider your technical mastery adequate, and move on to focus on areas that these players tend to lack in? Of course, Buckethead is a freak, and just excells at everything... Lane surmounted this by being a piano virtuouso, besides just being a mere guitar virtuouso, so he didn't have to deal with this issue... but guys like MICHAEL.ANGELO, Chris Impelliteri, Todd Duane, etc tend to focus more attention on their technique than anything else, and as such sound somehow inferior in a way, to players like Satch and Vai.
Food for thought. "Apathy is the "suckbird" on cynicism's bloated carcass." - Dennis Miller
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice!
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 20:24:45 -0500 (EST) From: Jeremy Aaron Smith <js013b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Attention: Hafiz Mawji Message-ID: <199803020124.UAA21592@uhura.cc.rochester.edu>
Hey there,
Hafiz Mawji, if you're reading this, please e-mail me back. I tried getting in touch with you but it seems your old ISP (and e-mail address) disappeared. I'll let you know what's up after I hear from you. Sorry to the rest of you for taking up this space, but this was the only way I could possibly try and get ahold of Hafiz.
Jeremy
DTC: Here's something cool I did the other day, now that I finally got my DTIFC CD. Try this out...put the DTIFC CD and FII into your disc changer. Set your stereo's memory to play the outtake tracks from New Millennium, then play NM from FII. Then have it play the outtakes from YNM, then play YNM from FII (and insert YOM in there if you have it). Repeat for the whole album. It's kinda cool to hear the little pieces of the songs come together in a finished product. Another neat thing to do is a similar trick with WDADU and WDATU. -- Jeremy A. Smith "Feed my head with some real thoughts University of Rochester and let me think instead of being taught js013b@uhura.cc.rochester.edu .. I'll say things you won't believe Brought to you by the letter: oe Just stand back--just let me breathe!" --DT
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:57:24 -0400 (AST) From: 015691b@dragon.acadiau.ca (Rick Barkhouse) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Ing-vay?? Message-ID: <199803020157.VAA14815@dragon.acadiau.ca>
> I am pretty sure "Yngwe" is pronounced "Ing-vay". If i am wrong, does > anyone else have any clue?
That's funny, I've always pronounced it Yang-wee :)
// ============================================== // Rick Barkhouse <015691b@dragon.acadiau.ca> | // -- 706 Crowell Tower -+- (902) 585-2700 -- | // Homepage: http://dragon.acadiau.ca/~015691b/ | // ==============================================
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Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:23:26 -0500 From: "Adam Cook" <acook@tiac.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: playing really fast! Message-ID: <199803020224.VAA15108@mailnfs0.tiac.net>
> Lastly IMHO there's the physics-defying sounds of players like Shawn Lane, > Buckethead, or Chris Impellitteri. This is the school of shredding that makes > guitarists hang up their axes.
I agree with everything you said here, except you need to put Joe Stump in this last catagory. Joe is in the category of the fastest, no argument. Anybody who disagrees needs to take a week out of their summer and travel to Berklee for the summer guitar sessions. Sit in Joe's class and you will see why. However, even Joe admits that there are random guys all over the world who could be faster than he, but Joe will also play an Impelliteri or Yngwie solo note for note to show he's faster than anybody YOU'VE heard about. I remember one of our classes had a long discussion about all the players that have been brought on this list in this discussion. Buckethead, Michael Angelo, Impelliterri, Gilbert, all of them were compared. But none could top the mighty Stump. :)
Oh by the way, after you take Joe's class. Go to Jon Finn's class where you'll learn something called DYNAMICS. Why don't we ever have conversations about that on this list??
Adam
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 19:36:10 -0700 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Shredology (sweep-licking in particular) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980301193608.006ed6a4@postoffice.syspac.com>
At 05:23 PM 3/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >1). Complex multi-finger tapping (Ron Thal once called it >Octodigital technique) is equal to or greater than alternate >picking, which is equal to or greater than sweep picking,
I agreed with you until you said that. I dunno about you, but I've found sweep picking to be the fastest way to play a passage. Being that I have another guitarist in the band that can easily play circles around me (lead-wise), I don't use sweeps very often, but in my music, you can definitely hear when I do. The notes just come by in flurries. Check out John Petrucci's instructional video. In his section on sweep picking, he spends about 4 or 5 minutes explaining a set of sweep-arpeggios and shows each segment at a very slow speed. This 5 minute explanation becomes a THREE SECOND flurry of very cleanly picked notes.
Oh yeah, Congratulations go out to Mr. Burrito again. Only 30 posts this month, Roger? You're slipping!! ;)~
~Vinnie is happy with the current state of the jam, keep it up guys :)
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Date: Sun, 01 Mar 1998 21:37:50 -0800 From: "Timothy P. Shough" <hounddog@nji.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Guitarists and the sarcastically challenged Message-ID: <34FA45AE.4F80@nji.com>
Greetings, YtseSpammers:
Among someone's lists of gratuitous CDs was listed: > Larry Carlton
Wow...I've never seen another Carlton fan on this list before, but considering all the recent discussion of various guitarists' styles, Larry's is certainly noteworthy. I strongly recommend his CDs (particularly Sleepwalk) to anyone interested in emotion and versatility. He's one of the most diversified and gifted guitarists I've heard, always emphasizing melody. Is anyone here going to the Berkshire Jazzfest this month in Reading, PA? He'll be there along with Larry Coryell; this should be a great show.
Graham has the following words of wisdom for the humor-impaired: > a. read things a couple of times before you jump to the obvious wrong > conclusions. > b. understand that something that contains a smiley :) means somewhere > in the message there is humour and no anger/agro is intented. > c. if all this fails I urge you to go forth and multiply. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Forget this last recommendation. Your progeny would only cause this list to deteriorate further. :) Have a great week.
Tim
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3592 **************************
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