YTSEJAM Digest 3616
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Keyboards vs Guitars
by eckie@asu.edu
2) 24 frets of fun
by Isaac Sabetai <isabetai@bu.edu>
3) Re: barre
by "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu>
4) My head hurts.
by K I L L M A R Y <caschulze@mindspring.com>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3615
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
6) Re: keyboard vb guitar
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
7) Re: Drums and TAMP
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
8) Easy peasey
by Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
9) Re: Keyboards vs Guitars
by "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
10) Re: Rudess/Morgenstein Project ...questions.
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
11) Re: Keyboards vs Guitars
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
12) Re: Keyboards vs Guitars
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
13) Re: keyboard vb guitar
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
14) Re: Keyboards vs Guitars
by Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com>
15) He started it
by someone@prognosis.com
16) Re: He started it
by eckie@asu.edu
17) Re: guitarists
by "subtlerage" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
18) YTSEJAM digest 3615
by Greg1680 <Greg1680@aol.com>
19) Re: JCM 2000
by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 10:06:35 -0700 (MST)
From: eckie@asu.edu
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Keyboards vs Guitars
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.980305094643.5937C-100000@general3.asu.edu>
Oh me god...it's 1997 all over again....
On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, yet another Chris bitched, moaned and hollered:
> I don't wanna start this thread, so I'm not gonna jump in and defend Damon,
Well, that's good.
> even tho I think he is mostly right.
Hey! Back up there partner!
> Guitarist: "Blah blah blah blah blah how's my hair blah blah blah."
> Keyboardist (if they have one): "blah blah blah blah I'll just sequence
everything and press this button blah blah blah blah"
> Now, this is a lot of why I got into prog. Keyboardists have NO respect in
> the mainstream rock/heavy music world. I went out and bought I&W the first
> time I heard PMU on the radio because it was the first metal song I'd ever
> heard that didn't have the keys turned down so low that you could barely
> hear them, and Kev was actually playing something INTERESTING.
I have a ton of respect for keyboard pounders in the rock world. So do
the hundreds of other people who enjoy prog metal, or any "higher" form
of music >;) (heh heh, turn it up...BRING THE FLAMES!). As far as
MAINSTREAM opinions go, who gives a fuck? They just awarded the Best
Instrumental Rock award to a song that has lyrics. Shows what they know.
> Yes, I'm a bitter keyboardist, and so is Damon. Anyone who says that they
> are a rock guitarist immediately has "cool" stamped in the minds of random
> strangers whom they meet. A rock keyboardist immediately has the word
> "geek" stamped in.
And anybody who lives their lives according to the names other people
give 'em immediately goes "BA A A A A A AH" whenever a nearby electric sheer
is turned on. Kevin Moore's cool. Ask any female Dream Theater
fan. Derek Sherinian..well, he needs some work, but he could be just as
cool, if not cooler }:^). I have a lot of respect for anybody who can
play well on any instrument and convey whatever emotions effectively, and
you should too! :) I've even heard some damn fine bagpipe work that
made me a little teary eyed.
Let's face it, the music's what matters. Wait For Sheep, Hollow Beers,
and Trial of Tears are some of the most beautiful songs ever written in
the world of progMMMMMMETAL. That's what I bought FII for. Okay, that,
and NM, PS, BMS, HK, LitS....
AAAAnyhoo. Off of my soapbox and into the practice room.
~Eckie got SKILLZ BOYEEEEEE
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 12:21:57 -0500
From: Isaac Sabetai <isabetai@bu.edu>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: 24 frets of fun
Message-ID: <34FEDF34.C94EB25F@bu.edu>
> i). I long to hear the Vinnie LuPone solo that requires frets
22-24
>in order to be properly executed. I'd go so far as to say that 99
>percent of all playing is done below the 21st fret.
Maybe Vinnie subscribes the Marty Friedman lead technique. Few
guitarists incorporate 24th fret bends in almost every solo, but Mr.
Friedman. I saw Megadeth three years ago. I did not wear ear plugs and
it took a while for my ears to recover from his piercing solos. A kick
ass concert though. :)
Isaac
-- "Your 15 minutes of lameness are up-- let the Klugman revolution begin" -- Zorak------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 98 11:24:32 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <Brian.D.Hayden-1@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: barre Message-ID: <34fedfcc08cd007@mhub2.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <Pine.SOL.3.91.980305094128.5937B-100000@general3.asu.edu> from ytsejam@ax.com:
> Ah c'mone ya pussy! I think I have the smallest fingers in the world > (heck, half the chicks I meet have bigger hands than I do) 'n I can barre > just fine 'n dandy. >:) Get some blood circulatin' in those digits 'n > stretch, then try playing. Do like Petrucci does. Massaaaaage. It > really does work wonders.
Hmmm...I'll try the massage thing. BTW, just out of curiousity I measured my fingers...the longest is exactly three inches.
> ~Eckie, the ever so relaxed guitar wanker
-Brian, the ever so amatuer guitar wanker :-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:37:40 -0500 (EST) From: K I L L M A R Y <caschulze@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: My head hurts. Message-ID: <199803051737.MAA29148@camel14.mindspring.com>
Vinnie: > Oh yeah, Eric Clapton sucks!! :)
/Ignore Vinnie
Ptacek: > Well, this is the longest guitar oriented discussion I've seen >without a fight breaking out. :)
I think that means that the discussion is not over yet ;)
> i). I long to hear the Vinnie LuPone solo that requires frets 22-24 >in order to be properly executed. I'd go so far as to say that 99 >percent of all playing is done below the 21st fret.
I think it depends on style. My playing is/was 99.999% under the 21st fret, but I've seen people that go up to the 24th fret quite often, albeit I agree that those are a minority.
> You tell me about how easy it is to be a guitarist and make tons of >money without knowing how to do anything when you do it. I haven't >met anyone who has been able to pull this off, and I'm sure as hell >broke!
Can you say "Green Day"? :-) I'm just joking. The guy from Green Day knows what he's doing, there just isn't much to know.
And ummmmm I think jokes aren't allowed in this list, unless they are music related, or about Korg's mom :-) Like this one:
Ladies and gentlemen! Welcome to the Guitarrenring Racing Track. Today we will see the final match between two teams, Alternate and Economy. They are starting side to side, and once the green flag is out, we will finally decide which one is the world's faster! Gentlemen, start your engines! And the green flag is out! Alternate starts out energetically and jumps a bit ahead while Economy gets the gearbox stuck (figuring if the first gear should go up or down I guess). But Economy catches up quickly and passes Alternate in the straightaway! Just look at that speed, it's unbelievable! And both are at the end of the straightaway and the curve approaches! Alternate seems to have a much more stable equipment when the curve comes up, while Economy loses a little bit of the grip when faced with an unexpected change in the track. And we're moving to the end of the track, ladies and gentlemen. Alternate is a bit ahead after coming out of the "S" curve, but Economy catches up and passes Alternate just before the finish line! What an impressive effort! But ummmm why is the public looking the other way? Oh, it's a third contestant, way behind, driving the shiniest sports car, with three gorgeous naked women standing in it! WHHHHHOOOOOAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
So there, folks, it's not necessarily the speed, but what you do to keep the audience interested that matters.
This was a JOKE brought to you by KillMary, who reminds you that only a guitar is a guitar. No animals have been harmed during the production of this joke other than the silly cat that kept trying to eat my lunch.
Later!
Christian. ____ ____ ____ /\ /\ /\/\ /\ / / /\/ /\/ /\\ /\ /__/ / / \/ \__/ / / /___/ /___/ \\/ \____ /\ \ / / / \/ / / / / /\ \ // \ / / \ / / / / / / / / \___\// / / / / / /__ /__ / / / / / /\ / / / \ \ \ \ \\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ / / \___\_\_\__\\__\__\___\_\___\_\___\_\__\__/ / \_________________________________________/ "Kill her. That's all you have to do."
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:00:39 EST From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3615 Message-ID: <dcb5142b.34fee849@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-05 12:15:03 EST, you write:
<< Yeah, I try that, but then it screws with my other fingering. I have pretty short fingers, so they don't reach around real well. -Brian >>
short fingers make it hard to play guitar, might wanna give up and try the trumpet or something =]
Rocky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:05:17 EST From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: keyboard vb guitar Message-ID: <77776fae.34fee95f@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-05 12:15:03 EST, you write:
<< Luckily, I've found a group of people (well, helped to form a group of people) who want to do heavy, slightly proggy, cool music that have prominent keyboards, so I'm happy with that, but it is a tough world out there for us Tinklers of Ivory. Rant off. I now return you to your regularly scheduled BafuJam. ~Chris >>
Lucky bastard, wish i could find a prog band around here that needs a keyboardist. hell i wouldnt give a shit if we went anywhere, as long as i could find decent musicians to jam with.
Rocky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:07:08 EST From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Drums and TAMP Message-ID: <fca8d1ae.34fee9cf@aol.com>
i always thought it was funny when drummers tried to make their equipment sound technical =]
Rocky
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 13:06:39 -0500 From: Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Easy peasey Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980305130639.007327dc@pop.wam.umd.edu>
>> Piano, IMO is the EASIEST instrument to learn on. All instruments >>are about equally difficult to MASTER, though. Who on this list is >>going to be satisfied playing only Green Day type music? Give me a >>break! >ok, i can ALMOST agree that its the easiest to begin to learn on, but i must >say one "instrument" is even easier, drums.
The easiest instrument, hands down (literally!), and I say this from loads of experience here: the noseflute. All you have to know how to do is whistle. And have a functioning nose, of course, but that only stands to reason.
Brian "Best Traditional Pop Vocal" Henderson
=========================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: hender@wam.umd.edu ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ ===========================
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 13:40:32 -0500 From: "Christopher R. Merlo" <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Keyboards vs Guitars Message-ID: <199803051840.NAA11873@steelhead.cs.wm.edu>
~Eckie wrote:
> MAINSTREAM opinions go, who gives a fuck? They just awarded the Best > Instrumental Rock award to a song that has lyrics. Shows what they know.
Not to mention a lack of "instruments." Then again, I stopped watching the Shammys when they awarded best new artist to Milli Vanilli. That sort of signaled the beginning of the end for me.
-d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:51:58 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Rudess/Morgenstein Project ...questions. Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980305135107.4706C-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
I have the Rudess/Morganstein album. I think it is a must-have. If you have seen them before, you know what they are like. Now, the thing is that they are not DT. However, they are about as hard as a duo can get, considering it is a keyboard and drummer. I don't know if the album is in the UK, but if you can find it, buy it.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:57:05 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Keyboards vs Guitars Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980305135554.4706D-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
Why am I getting deja vu? I also forgot to add to your post, not that I have added anything to begin with, that aside from classical and prog, jazz is another realm where we get our dues. Long live talent. Let the losers have their power chords. I'll kick all your asses. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:59:09 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Keyboards vs Guitars Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980305135850.4706E-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
Ecky, or however you spell your name, I think that year was 1996 when we had this battle.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:05:48 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: keyboard vb guitar Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980305140521.4706G-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
Rocky, you and I both. If you care to move to New Jersey, maye we can put together a keyboard-only band and show those other musical fuckers who's boss.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:07:17 -0500 (EST) From: Damon Fibraio <damon74@injersey.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Keyboards vs Guitars Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.96.980305140655.4706H-100000@nj5.injersey.com>
D-man, I wonder if the Grammies ever ate their shorts on the Milly Vanilli thing.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon74@injersey.com Keyboards, vocals, musical slut I'll play for money. Enquire if interested. "One likes to believe in the freedom of music, but glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, Spirit of Radio, 1980
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:39:20 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: He started it Message-ID: <199803051937.LAA09532@odin.ax.com>
> From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu> > Subject: Keyboards vs Guitars
Here's what it comes down to. If you are bitter because of the perceptions of your instrument, you deal with it. I play pointy Ibanez guitars, and now I'm studying jazz. The two do not go together, based on peoples' perceptions... I have been put down for it before. I deal with it. Don't retaliate by pretending that you are above other instrumentalists. The fact of the matter is, it is NOT that difficult to learn to play two parts at once. The difficulties in doing so are very similar to learning two parts at once for classical and fingerpicking guitar. I stand by my belief that there is no superior instrument, and it's no easier to become a true master of one than it is to become a master of another.
> Guitarist: "Well, I picked up the guitar three years ago, taught myself > using the "teach yourself Heavy Metal Guitar in 21 Days" book, and look at > me now, I'm famous and rich. I don't know what a major scale is, but I get > laid by a diefferent woman evry night! Isn't it great!?"
You are on such a crack high, dude! :) How common do you think this is? Do you think that the rest of the guitarists just overslept on the day that they were handing out record deals and bimbos? You have a similar chance at winning the lottery as you do to get one of those fantasy "Hanson/Green Day" record contracts. And if you have been out of the loop, the big sellers these days are R&B artists and cheesy rap tunes, which are devoid of guitar, but somehow magically all have keys in one form or another. No... you're not allowed to be a virtuoso, but what you're comparing the virtuoso keyboardist with is the walking brain stem type of guitar player, which is not a fair comparison. If you want to talk about how tough it is to be a keyboard virtuoso, as compared to being a guitar player, compare the keyboard master to the master of the guitar. With regards to making it big by playing music, you'll get more gigs as a keyboardist if you play simple bullshit synth pads, just like you get more work as a guitarist of you just play a simple chord progression consisting only of power chords. I resent that you guys compensate for a lack of respect by labeling all guitarists by the same standard. I practice 2-5 hours a day... I EARN my respect on my instrument. If you want to make a fair statement about how easy itis to be a guitarist, or how easy it is to get gigs, by just knowing power chords and a "Heavy Metal" book, pick up a guitar and prove yourself wrong. Welcome to reality.
> Luckily, I've found a group of people (well, helped to form a group of > people) who want to do heavy, slightly proggy, cool music that have > prominent keyboards, so I'm happy with that, but it is a tough world out > there for us Tinklers of Ivory.
What do you think it's like to be a guitarist with precise technique these days? People want to hear sloppy playing now. If an advanced guitarist wants to play current cover tunes, he or she has to degrade his or her technique most of the time. It's not easy for ANYONE in the prog genre. Why don't we whine about it to you?
"Apathy is the "suckbird" on cynicism's bloated carcass." - Dennis Miller
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice!
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Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 13:06:33 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: ytsejam@ax.com Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: He started it Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.980305130558.7584A-100000@email1.asu.edu>
> I resent that you guys compensate for a lack of respect by labeling > all guitarists by the same standard. I practice 2-5 hours a day... I > EARN my respect on my instrument. If you want to make a fair > statement about how easy itis to be a guitarist, or how easy it is to > get gigs, by just knowing power chords and a "Heavy Metal" book, pick > up a guitar and prove yourself wrong. Welcome to reality.
Hahahaha! Welcome...TO PLANET MADSMAN!
~Eckie takes no prisoners
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 14:41:20 +0000 From: "subtlerage" <subtlerage@subtlerage.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: guitarists Message-ID: <199803052041.MAA16750@norway.it.earthlink.net>
y'all suck. damn wankers anyway. give it up.
:)
-me
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= A n d r e w . M i l l e r . . s u b t l e r a g e s u b t l e r a g e @ s u b t l e r a g e . c o m h t t p : / / w w w . s u b t l e r a g e . c o m =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:42:36 EST From: Greg1680 <Greg1680@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: YTSEJAM digest 3615 Message-ID: <72daa0d9.34ff0e3e@aol.com>
this is a post to correct the Drums and TAMP post mike only plays on Sabian cymbals he doesnt use Zildijan I know one cause one I met mike portnoy and i read his Modern Drummer interview ] greg A drummer almost as good a mike
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Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:51:28 EST From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: JCM 2000 Message-ID: <7efb50cf.34ff1053@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-05 12:15:12 EST, K I L L M A R Y <caschulze@mindspring.com> writes:
<< Does anybody here own one of those new Marshall JCM 2000 amps? I'm really curious as to how those sound... >>
I played one at the LA NAMM show in the Marshall booth, with a Marshall tech messing with it. It sounded like the worst excuse for a new line of amps I have ever heard in my life. The tone was awful. No balls, no chunk. And that's where its at. I mean if I can't get it to sound good with a Marshall guy trying to help out, imagine the one you will buy at a store.
However, I have also played a 30th Aniversary (combo not head) that sounded horrible also and I keep hearing how good these are. I would say the JCM 2000 I played might have been a bad amp in a good line, but at Marshall's own booth? On the other hand, I plugged into a Marshall JMP-1 right after, and it was incredible.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3616 **************************
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