YTSEJAM Digest 3690
Today's Topics:
1) re: copycats
by Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
2) The Fastest Alternate Pickers (NDTC)
by "Elydian" <elydian@netcomuk.co.uk>
3) JAZZ
by Edwin Voras <Edwin.Voras@mci.com>
4) Tess' DT boot cd auction LAST CALL
by "Tess T. Coles" <skooc@earthlink.net>
5) Survey
by Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com>
6) Chick Corea Elektric Band, was: Re: jazz
by Rick Audet <Ytse@concentric.net>
7) Random stuff (NDTC)
by "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
8) Need for Speed
by The iban <Theiban@aol.com>
9) Al DiMeola
by Rick Audet <Ytse@concentric.net>
10) Opening vs. Headlining
by Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
11) RE: YTSEJAM digest 3689
by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3689
by someone@prognosis.com
13) Re: Opening vs. Headlining
by Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU>
14) DMB
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdm.com>
15) Nice..
by O-P Komonen <op777@mail.surffi.net>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3689
by Peter Tatischev <tatisch@null.net>
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Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 11:58:54
From: Pat Sullivan <psull@ici.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re: copycats
Message-ID: <3.0.5.16.19970331115854.578f49ea@mail.ici.net>
> Check out
>the date of release on these discs. Way before any of the
>Yngwie-clones started to appear. (OK, Yngwie influenced players...)
So basically you're saying that Yngwie was playing before people started
copying the way Yngwie was playing. Pardon my ignorance; but - Duh! (Of
*course* he had to be doing it first - otherwise all those people would
have had to copy something else. :))
-----
_____Pat Sullivan_____________________________________________
E-mail: (psull)-(at)-(ici)-(dot)-(net)
IRC: DDictator
WWW: http://www.just-like.nu/
NP: Removed because Jon Kretchmer said so.
______________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 18:17:25 +0100
From: "Elydian" <elydian@netcomuk.co.uk>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: The Fastest Alternate Pickers (NDTC)
Message-ID: <01bd5cc8$dfd90bc0$LocalHost@elydian>
Just as a matter of interest, I was wondering what the fastest speeds are,
that people have heard any guitarist play, using alternate picking.
I've heard Paul Gilbert play quintuplets at 208 bpm (although it was
actually Dave Kilminster I heard playing it), this works out the same as
straight sixteenths at 260 bpm.
I also heard Jeff Kollman play straight sixteenths at 232 bpm in the solo of
his piece 'A Thousand Faces'.
Just wondering, anyway.
==========================================
In a world which your mind controls, belief is reality.
-- E-Mail: elydian@netcomuk.co.uk -- ICQ UIN: 1491970 -- Web Pages: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~elydian/ ==========================================------------------------------
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 10:25 -0800 (PST) From: Edwin Voras <Edwin.Voras@mci.com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: JAZZ Message-ID: <19980331172510.QAAF32491@[166.33.99.41]>
If you want kick ass Fusion, I have one name for ya.
Tribal Tech!!
Ytse on,
eD
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 09:51:38 -0800 (PST) From: "Tess T. Coles" <skooc@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Tess' DT boot cd auction LAST CALL Message-ID: <199803311751.JAA29831@norway.it.earthlink.net>
Hi everyone!
Is anyone interested in some DT boot cd's? I'm putting these up for auction to the highest bidder. Here's how it's going to work.
Bids will be taken until midnight TONIGHT (March 31, 1998). At times during this period I'll be updating the list as to what the top bid is for each item. The minimum bid is $25 for single discs and $50 for double discs. Add two dollars for postage for any single cd. more than one cd then the postage is included.
NOTE: These prices are for USA orders. If you are in another country then you'll need to add more for postage. The rate will depend on what country you live in. I will call my post office and ask them and get back to you. OK, enough of that bullshit, here we go! :) Scott
The Dance Of Eternity (2cd) $75 so far Majestic Harmonies (1cd) Lords Of Sound (2cd) Mind Control (2cd) $50 so far When Dream & Today Unite (1cd) Anitquities (1cd) Scenes From A Memory (1cd) Precious Things (1cd) The Darkest of Winters (1cd)
Other misc boot cds Black Sabbath - Live 1980/83 (1cd) (half is with Dio, the other half Ian Gillan) Iron Maiden - Brazil 1996 (1cd, Blaze on vox) Metallica - Garage Days & more (1cd) Tested and Covered (1cd) Cut The Crap (2cd Europe 96) Candy For The Kids (2cd Miami 94 with Rob Halford) Nirvana - Up In Smoke (2cd) Rush - Critical Mass (2cd) Soundgarden - Ugly Flowers (live 89, 1cd) Blow Up The Outside (2cd live 96) Van Halen - US Festival '83 (2cd)
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 12:52:18 -0500 From: Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Survey Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980331125218.009522a0@mail.isminternet.com>
Prog-Net has started a new survey: Best Prog CD of All Time, plus two bonus questions (Best Cover Art and Best New Artist). Please stop by and cast your votes.
Prog-Net is: http://www.isminternet.com/prognet/
Thanks!
Chris cdixon@isminternet.com
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:34:29 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet <Ytse@concentric.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Chick Corea Elektric Band, was: Re: jazz Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980331131741.13245A-100000@mariner.cris.com>
Carlos Alfaro wrote:
> Also you might want to check out Chick Corea's Electric Band album "inside > out" which features excellent piano, guitar, bass, drum and sax work..hell.. > these guys are the DT of jazz.. ( or should i say.. DT is the CCEB of rock)
Ding!Ding!Ding! This album is unf00kingbelievable. I've often referred to the last track, "Tale Of Daring (Parts 1-4)" as the Metropolis of jazz fusion. Matter of fact, I've enjoyed playing that selection on iParty for people and have gotten very positive responses. (Hey, did you ever get around to picking this album up, Chris?).
Chick Corea's Elektric Band has a whole bunch of releases, but to me the only other one that really kicks ass (aside from "Inside Out") is "Eye of the Beholder". Those are two of the best albums I've ever owned.
> also for guitar oriented stuff... Al Di Meola is the way to go... specially > "kiss my axe" album
I never could get into this album for whatever reason. I'm more in tune with his 70's work, in particular, "Elegant Gypsy", "Land of the Midnight Sun", and "Electric Rendezvous". If you've never heard his stuff before, you will be blown away by these, especially "Elegant Gypsy". Buy it now.
Now Playing: BucketHead "Colma"
Rick Audet San Francisco
PS: Any SF Bayarea folks going to the BucketHead show at the Fillmore this Saturday? I'll be there.
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:42:11 -0500 From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Random stuff (NDTC) Message-ID: <4AA929543BC8D111A4E800600808ACE50238C3@HAMSXHA2>
Someone (no, not someone@prognosis.com) wrote,
>As for all this crap about Titanic, you can't give an opinion of a movie >unless you have gone and actually SEEN it.
Hey - for everyone who hasn't seen the movie: The boat sinks. Everyone dies. There. I just saved you all $8.
Richard Rivera: You very well could be right, and I very well could be wrong. :) But then, how do albums go gold/platinum even today on the Monday before they go on sale? (Not trying to shoot you down - that's a legitimate question).
Jazz: *Sigh* You know, the more I think about it, the more I should just bite the bullet and get into some jazz. Even though I friggin' HATE the whole idea of me going up and down the jazz aisles with all those... JAZZHEADS. (/me shivers). Anyone care to point me in the right direction for some good Jazz bass? Apart from Jaco, of course.
Nicholas Giannotti "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool."
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:48:01 EST From: The iban <Theiban@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Need for Speed Message-ID: <ce354d3b.35213a63@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-31 13:19:33 EST, you write:
<< I've heard Paul Gilbert play quintuplets at 208 bpm (although it was actually Dave Kilminster I heard playing it), this works out the same as straight sixteenths at 260 bpm. I also heard Jeff Kollman play straight sixteenths at 232 bpm in the solo of his piece 'A Thousand Faces'. >>
comeon what's the big deal with speed? a fast guitar player does not make an awesome guitar player. well, you do have to be atleast sorta fast to be an awesome guitarist i guess, but real writing ability happens to be what attracts me musicially to guitarists. playing a scale in 32nd notes at 500 bpm (exagerating ofcourse) is nothing more than playing a scale really fast. now if you can play some real licks at even an eight of that speed, thats what impresses me, take the end solo for "innocence faded" i sat down and practiced that for a while, and never could get it with the cd. but the solo in erotomania (still an awesome solo) took me no time to get down, since its basically just string skipping on a scale. i must say that the innocence faded ending solo is my favorite JP solo of all time, as far as technical solos go.
Rocky http://soft.simplenet.com/
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:52:29 -0500 (EST) From: Rick Audet <Ytse@concentric.net> To: YtseJelly <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Al DiMeola Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980331135028.14791A-100000@mariner.cris.com>
I forgot to list one more kick-ass Al DiMeola album in my previous post, for those of you interested in exploring his catalog.
Al DiMeola "Casino"
Thankyouhaveaniceday.
Rick Audet
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:01:55 EST From: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Opening vs. Headlining Message-ID: <4853463d.35213da5@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-03-26 22:04:17 EST, you write:
<< << I asked Derek Sherinian how long Dream Theater's set would be on the Deep Purple tour, and he said they would have an hour long set...just thought i'd let everyone know... chris >> This blows dead bear. Please do some club shows!!!!!!!!! Jaxx in Springfield!!!!!!!!! >>
HELLO?!?! What do you think we've been doing for the past 6 months? (or 6 years for that matter!!) 2 hr. headlining sets & club shows...everywhere...over & over again I think we've offered the entire world the opportunity to see us in that setting... Has it ever occured to you that maybe WE would like a change of atmosphere and an opportunity to make a couple new fans. We've always wanted to do a support slot, and playing to 3..5..10,000 people a night in great venues (mostly outdoor ampitheaters) will be a fun change of pace for US.
We will ALWAYS play our own headlining shows, but we don't want to ever limit ourselves to only one type of environment for the rest of our career...
Carpe Diem, Mike Portnoy
PS - This (or most posts from me) is not aimed directly at the person I quoted above, I'm merely giving the band's point of view on a particular subject..... Back to work I go..... see some of you at our 2 HR HEADLINING SHOWS this month.... : )
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:21:23 -0500 From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.belvoir.army.mil> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 3689 Message-ID: <c=US%a=_%p=AMSC%l=AMSC_NTAS-980331192123Z-363@amsc_ntas.amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
Mr. Ptacek wrote...
> The JPM is not worth the price tag. You're better off with any >comparable lesser known company that isn't Ibanez. Jacksons, Ibanez, >Fender, Washburn, most of the axes these companies are putting out >are way lower quality than they should be. If you ARE gonna go with >Ibanez, get a hardshell case, and keep it in the case when you're not >playing, if you want to try to avoid fretting out all the time. I'm >a firm believer that the smaller, less known companies, and the >guitar shop customs are infinitely better than the trash coming out >these days... An older used Ibanez is about 100 X better than a new >one (and still ain't great).
I agree wholeheartedly. The more expensive - USA made - Jackson stuff is pretty nice, but other than that, I'd recommend stuff like Godin and US Masters, two small guitar companies that are making quality stuff, and that aren't hideously expensive. Of course, this comes from a guy who owns two Zions, a Pink Guitarz custom guitar - the BEST guitar repair and building in the DC area, by far - a mongrel made out of old BC Rich and Kramer parts, and an '81 Ibanez Destroyer II. I don't like (imported) Jacksons, the new Ibanez stuff, Washburn - has anybody else had it with that stupid plastic "flame maple look" crap? I mean, you don't get a bookmatched maple top on a $400 guitar, why try to make it look like it? Fender's not as bad as the others, but mid - line guitars are pretty crappy right now, at least from the big names. I don't like the Yamahas much, either, in terms of quality. The ESP LTD series guitars I've seen are OK, if you like ESP. Fernandes isn't too bad, either. My advice for aspiring shredders is - go buy a nice, used guitar from the mid/late eighties or early nineties. You can get them cheap in the era of Les Paul and Jazzmaster (one of the crappiest guitars Fender ever made!) worship, because they're too "metal", but they're still good instruments.
[EOR]
Mike Division >
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:34:06 +0000 From: someone@prognosis.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3689 Message-ID: <199803311930.NAA24866@wheat.farm.niu.edu>
> was arrangements and you probbaly won't get into right away at least. I'd > recommend some guitar players maybe because it's easiest to relate to when > coming from a rock background. Check out Mike Stern's latest release "Give > and Take" for some great stuff.
Well, I think it's going to be just about as hard to grasp guitar playing in Jazz as it would be to grasp horn players in jazz when you recommend people who reharm songs as much as Stern does. Stern is an amazing technical player, and has great phrasing, but this album in particular (which I love) is going to be a nightmare to follow if you're not familiar with the originals of the covers he plays, or can't find the implied underlying chord progression. I recommend starting out simple (harmonically) even if you think you have all the licks you could possibly need, at 240BPM. :)
> Pat Martino recently did a record with Jeff > Beck and Joe Satriani siting in on a couple tracks.
Shitty, shitty disc. Can't believe how bad the Satch and Hedges tracks are. The Hedges one is fine, except for Martino soloing over it!
> Other names you should > familiarize yourself with are John Mclaughlin and the Mahavishnu Orchestra
These are mostly fusion and experimental music... not really jazzy. See, this is the thing... there's a risk of people running out and buying all the fusion stuff (Tribal Tech, TJ Kirk, Mahavishnu Orchestra, etc which is great, and amazing, musically) and thinking they're doing something for their jazz playing. It's just not like that. You have to start at the basics, if you really want to have a clue what's going on. You really have to get some standards (Jazz tunes that everyone plays... "Standard Repetoire") and some early recordings so you can see where the players have progressed, and where they started from. God save the poor player who runs out and buys all the Chick Corea Electric Band and Al DiMeola discs, and then tries to sit in at a jazz club... the almighty MIGHT let the dude out of the club in one piece! The key comes down to phrasing, and improvisation. There are some very specific rules to understand with regards to how to approach soloing over progressions, and voice leading, before you can just go out and break them and try and play 8 finger runs over Giant Steps (Batten's version is a JOKE. It might mean SOMETHING if she could improv over the changes, but the fact that I've heard 3 recordings of her solo, and each time it was exactly the same, leads me to believe she's a wanker). I know I'm running off on a wild subject here, so if anyone wants to continue the jazz discussion, I'm all ears. Remember, I've only just begun working on Jazz within the last 8-10 months... I don't know too much... but I know that when I started approaching jazz like I approach Classical, or learning DT solos, or improving over an Yngwie-esque rhythm, I was certainly belittled. :)
> From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> > Subject: Re: jazz
> Also you might want to check out Chick Corea's Electric Band album "inside > out" which features excellent piano, guitar, bass, drum and sax work..hell.. > these guys are the DT of jazz.. ( or should i say.. DT is the CCEB of rock) > also for guitar oriented stuff... Al Di Meola is the way to go... specially > "kiss my axe" album
ARGH! NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! Al is one of my musical heros, as is Chick, but DiMeola is fusion at best. It's like world music with a shredder on board. I used to think DiMeola was jazz until I was exposed to some real jazzy playing. Sure, Al belongs in the jazz section... that's where they put Tribal Tech and all the fusion stuff. But DO NOT confuse him for the kind of jazz players are refering to when they recommend that you learn some jazz. When you hear Skolnick say he's working on jazz lines, he means guys like Bird and Miles... NOT DiMeola! Learning solos and melodies from DiMeola and McLaughlin is not a whole lot more useful to you than learning solos and melodies from Yngwie or Petrucci... awesome and valuable technical workouts, and they may help you learn how to move around the fretboard pretty quickly, but you're not going to have a prayer when it comes down to playing standards.
"Give a hoot... don't fuck for money." - Dennis Miller
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman Go Home and Practice! "The Dude Abides."
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:31:39 -0500 (EST) From: Al Balkiewicz <balkiewi@UMDNJ.EDU> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Opening vs. Headlining Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.96.980331142648.16839A-100000@njmsa.UMDNJ.EDU>
On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Portnoy420 wrote:
> HELLO?!?! > What do you think we've been doing for the past 6 months? > (or 6 years for that matter!!)
whoohoo! damn straight! Mr. Portnoy has definitely made himself at home on the Ytsejam. A true Jammer!
I kinda agree with him. Granted, I would love to have DT play in my friggin' backyard in front of 20 people if I could, but I think the biggest rush that any musician can have is to play in front of crowds over 5,000-10,000+. Hell, I know that's one of the things I would just love to do, it's that whole talent thing that's been holding me back....
cut 'em some slack - if you were a "real fan", then you would have seen them already........just kidding,...... :P
-Al
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= w e w a l k i n t h e d a m a g e o f m a n k i n d -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= balkiewi@njmsa.umdnj.edu OR sigma982@yahoo.com OR theprof@bigfoot.com HOMEPAGE:http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/9280/index.html
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 15:00:41 +0000 From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdm.com> To: Ytsejam Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: DMB Message-ID: <35210519.4452@bdm.com>
Since I am married to a bit time DMB fan I suppose I can comment on the band.
DMB are much better live then in the studio. I disagree big time with whoever said they are a better studio band. DMB improvise during the shows often that is why in the DMB circle there is big time boot trading because all DMB shows are different.
Sure all the members in DMB are excellent musicians but in my opinion they are an alternative band, but are very good at what they do.
And as for DMB opening for DT that will never happen unless DT gets a lot more popular. DMB sells out the Nissan Pavillion by themselves. Nissan Pavillion seats 25000 people. Anyway their music is completely different but they are both good at he music they do.
To me DMB gets old after awhile, while DT doesn't and hopefully they never will.
-- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty Email : pdaugher@mcl.bdm.com | | Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html | |===================================================================| | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" -- X-Files | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:00:44 +0300 From: O-P Komonen <op777@mail.surffi.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Nice.. Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980331230044.007f8e40@hlti.fi>
>> Palmer also worked with 'Atomic Rooster' before he joined with ELP. And >> Emerson was in 'The Nice' before he's everyone heard ELP. > > Which I've been told that "The Nice" sucked big time (not the >keyboards, though). > >> Regards, >> AE > > []s, Roger... >
uh oh.... "As for all this crap about Nice, you can't give an opinion of a band unless you have gone and actually HEARD it." (c) Pat Daugherty
seriously.. get your hands on Nice's The Five Bridges Suite and then come and tell me they suck... they also have loads of other quality stuph, but some of the stuff is kinda humorous... like "Daddy, where did I come from?"
op777
------------------------------------------------------------- Olli-Pekka Komonen snail:Kutojantie 2, 13720 Parola, Finland e-mail: opk@hlti.fi phn:+358-3-6715036 cell:+358-400-498 266 ------------------------------------------------------------- "YOUTAKEMYLIFEANDI'LLTAKEYOURSTOO!!!" -Kevin Moore "Very positive message" -James LaBrie -------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 01 Apr 1998 00:18:28 +0400 From: Peter Tatischev <tatisch@null.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3689 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980401001828.009177f0@messagebox.com>
> >If you're ready to jump right into the horns there are a few essentials. >Get Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue" which has one of the most impressive >lineups ever, including Miles and John Coltrane on tenor sax. The cool >thing about jazz is all the great musicians played on each others albums! Sure, get it!!! KoB is simply awful, if you like it try Coltrane Time by John Coltrane (this one was released originally as Cecil Taylor's album Stereo Drive)... This album features awesome sax-playing with brilliant piano (I am not even mentioning the rhythm section).
========================================================== The maintainer of the YtseJamCD Project site: http://www.glasnet.ru/~tatisch/Ytze mirror: http://tripod.members.com/~Pete339 Home: http://www.web4free.com/Bass_p IRC: Hammman ICQ:425-8962 ===========================================================
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3690 **************************
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