YTSEJAM Digest 3849
Today's Topics:
1) the Wild Koba
by Phil Carter <satriani@negia.net>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3847
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
3) Music Theory, Technique, and the blend thereof
by "Doug Cronkhite" <c4@san.rr.com>
4) House of Blues - Monday May 18th
by "Doug Cronkhite" <c4@san.rr.com>
5) Apology to Lisa/Comments
by "CP Parnham" <C.P.Parnham-97@student.lboro.ac.uk>
6) stuff, Irving plaza again
by Deedlit <ebonomi@scott.skidmore.edu>
7) DT at Daytona's - no spoilers
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdm.com>
8) if you cab it to irving plaza, you're ball-less
by Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com>
9) Re: House of Blues - Monday May 18th
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
10) Re: if you cab it to irving plaza, you're ball-less
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
11) Nothing of Value
by someone@enteract.com
12) Re: DT FII tour videos
by Alan Estrada Adler <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
13) Calvin vs. Adam
by Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:38:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: Phil Carter <satriani@negia.net>
To: Liquid Tension Ytse <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: the Wild Koba
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980506131145.29499B-100000@peach.negia.net>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids...
The ytsegoon remarked:
> HA! i'm going to personally see to it that i give you all the worst
> advice and screw you ALL on royalties and such! mwhahahahahahah! i am an
> instrument of the mega-labels. you will fear me all. ha!
Koba, we already fear you. Human minds were not meant to work the way
yours (apparently) works. :) :)
Ta,
Phil
=======================================================================
Phil Carter -- satriani@negia.net (work), carter@negia.net (personal)
Senior Tech, NorthEast Georgia Internet Access, 546-5787
"To do is to be." -- Plato
"To be is to do." -- Aristotle
"Do be do be do." -- The Bud Ice Penguin
Currently playing: Queensryche -- "Operation: Mindcrime"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:40:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3847
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980506103243.4963B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Wed, 6 May 1998, Greg Jones wrote:
>
>Sorry but when you hear David Gilmore or any musician play music,
>whether the musician has a technical knowledge or not, you are hearing
>music theory.
At some level, yes, obviously. I think though, that he doesn't hear an Ab
aeolian arpeggio series followed by a phrygian minor scale down 7 notes,
etc. (you can tell I don't "know" theory, but I know what sounds "right"
in a specific chord/key -- completely by feel). He hears Gilmour
producing music with emotion because it isn't scales and such...
>
>Gilmore's music complies with the rules of music theory. That's why you
>like it. I think what you are really talking about is the difference
>between a guitarist is technical vs. one that is into "feel".
>
could be.
>Many musicians see the "technical" vs. "feel" argument to be an either
>or argument.
>
It does seem to be that way, doesn't it. Look at Kirk -- I don't think he
wanted to be grouped with the rest of the shredders of the 80's, so he
changed his style, not out of money, but out of fear.
>I contend that a musician can be both.
>
For example -- John Petrucci, Marty Fieldman, DeGarmo/Wilton, and more.
>Why can't a musician know music theory and play with feel? What would
>prevent him/her?
I think you're confusing your own issue. Technicians are technicians by
choice, not by default because they "know" music theory by rote. David
Gilmour won't start playing Yngwie just because he audited some courses at
Berklee.
>Music theory will enhance anyone's playing no matter what the genre or
>goal of the musician.
Better Music Theory Through Feeling.
>
>Greg
>
>5 days from seeing DT in Cincinatti!
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:13:23 -0400 (EDT)
> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
> Subject: Theory Theory..yadda...
> Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.94.980506100541.7681B-100000@thunder>
>
>
> My personal oppinion is that music theory IS interesting.. but MAY get in
> the way of true art... It may polute the true emotion running out of the
> musicians/artists head. Many of my favourite artists were those who knew
> no musical theory, but had feelings and emotions to convey, and did that.
> Yes, knowing HOW to play an instrument is a DEFINITE bonus since it will
> make life easier on the artist. One of my favourite examples is
> listening to David Gilmour guitar solos.. I dont hear theory.. i FEEL his
> emotions directly communicating through his guitar. Nothing technical,
> nothing intricate. There is something magical about that.
>
> Also, if everyone stck to theory.. the realm of music would stagnate. It
> is those with the new sounds that survive and expand musical boundaries.
> And besides.. all art should exist. If someone wants to communicate -
> there is nothing wrong with it. If no one listens.. then i guess.. welll.
> no one listens :). I think the only thing in the music industry which is
> bullshit.. which deserves to be bashed - which is evil and WRONG and
> SUCKS, is the INDUSTRY itself! All the bastard critics shoving their
> ideas down our throats, all the music stations and record lables who force
> feed us what they feel should be the popular music.. they are the ones who
> SUCK.. not the musicians themselves.
>
> Though.. I really dont enhjoy most of today's music... I bless the jam for
> introducing me to loads fo music that I do enjoy :)
>
>
> -Ponte
>
> DT in 33.5 hours!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> YIPPY!!!!
>
>
--Matt
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The brain of John Lennon
Just floated in from space today
preserved in a cryo-pod.
Yoko wasn't aboard
(We all thank God)
--Robon, "The Brain of John Lennon"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 10:49:57 -0700
From: "Doug Cronkhite" <c4@san.rr.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Music Theory, Technique, and the blend thereof
Message-ID: <000101bd7917$62308e80$2222d2cc@c4.san.rr.com>
You know.. a musician I really respect once said "When an artist criticizes
another, he ceases to be one". All this talk about how you can't be a proper
musician without theory, and you can't be a feel player with theory is
ridiculous. There is no requirement for art guys.. music is an art form. If
you like what you're hearing, does it really matter what that artists
education is ?? Now.. What musical theory really does, is give an artist a
way to communicate, in quantifiable terms, what he or she is doing.
JP may be one of the best at blending the speedy, technical stuff, with the
"feel" we all so desperately strive for. A listen to LITS from FII is as
good a demonstration of this as I've found.
And whatever you do.. don't start deciding what is creative.. I just
witnessed what may be the least probable jam session imaginable. Steve Vai,
and James "Munky" Schaffer from Korn. You should have seen the excitement
and interest that VAI had in the creativity of the guys in Korn. That's
really what this thing we call music is all about.. creativity..
originality, expression.
So get off the "this is better, or that is better" crap..
Doug Cronkhite
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:02:29 -0700
From: "Doug Cronkhite" <c4@san.rr.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: House of Blues - Monday May 18th
Message-ID: <000001bd7919$229252c0$2222d2cc@c4.san.rr.com>
Anyone know if there will be a problem with me bringing a DAT recorder to
this show? I recorded the San Diego show a couple months back, but I bumped
the mic level somehow and fucked it all up.
-doug
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 19:01:04 +0100
From: "CP Parnham" <C.P.Parnham-97@student.lboro.ac.uk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Apology to Lisa/Comments
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980506190104.00916100@student-mailin.lboro.ac.uk>
Lisa, or if you prefer,JIM (!), I want to apologise for not knowing about
the "real" Dr. Spock. He seems a bit of a legend and I've honestly never
heard of him! On the other hand, Mirror Mirror was the alternate Universe
episode where Spock had a beard and that was the one I referred to in the
last e-mail about their name in the first place.
Trevor Hoit, thanks for the Jennifer Batten info, but I think Lisa has
schooled you about the title of a certain Star Trek episode. And since I'm
a "silly British git" and I get the 'Jams through the night so I have to
read them the next day I would've corrected you on your information of Trek
trivia but unfortunately Lisa/Jim beat me to it! If anyone slags me off for
liking Star Trek, just remember that Lisa said it first, not me! :-)
Chris Parnham IRC: Insania ICQ: 5714076
_________________________________________________________________________
Please check out my local Rock band STORMWATCH at
<http://www.vinyltap.co.uk/storm.html>
When autumn leaves are falling, When twilight's here at last,
When time seems never ending, When present turns to past,
When hopes are all we live for, When eyes are closed at night,
When happiness forever is When dream and day unite.....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:19:35 -0400
From: Deedlit <ebonomi@scott.skidmore.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: stuff, Irving plaza again
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980506141935.006a4004@scott.skidmore.edu>
>Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:46:41 -0400 (EDT)
>From: Christian P Kremo <kremoc@river.it.gvsu.edu>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
>Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3845
>Message-ID: <Pine.HPP.3.95.980506114229.21497B-100000@river.it.gvsu.edu>
>
>
>> From: Deedlit <ebonomi@scott.skidmore.edu>
>> To: ytsejam@ax.com
>> Subject: oh boy!
>
>> Now for NDTC...I just wrote my first REAL song today...I'm so happy! :}
>> Of course it needs work (and lyrics), but it's like...whole...complete!
>> Woohoo!
>
>So is this gonna make MP3 of the day?
>
>-C#
Uhm, no, why would it? It's nothing most people would want to hear....
I just had to announce it.
Does anyone know if Irving Plaza is really sold out? My friend wanted to
come....
Erica
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erica Bonomi, ebonomi@skidmore.edu
Deedlit or Deedo on irc.dreamt.org 2112
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
http://www.skidmore.edu/~ebonomi/
Check here for the mp3 of the week!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:29:53 -0400
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdm.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DT at Daytona's - no spoilers
Message-ID: <3550AC21.94FBDF80@bdm.com>
I forgot to mention in my previous posts, that I saw a couple of very
feeble attempts at crowd surfing.
Also, once in the bathroom a bunch of guys were arguing about who is
better Rush or DT...
NP:Def Leppard-Rectroactive
-- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty Email : pdaugher@mcl.bdm.com | | Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html | |===================================================================| | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" -- X-Files | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 14:32:44 EDT From: Thrak75 <Thrak75@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: if you cab it to irving plaza, you're ball-less Message-ID: <57db473f.3550accd@aol.com>
i can't believe the wuss-ness of some of you folks saying one would be better off in a cab from grand central.
sheesh....subway's 1 buck-fifty. it's 1 friggin stop. the "one stop" is one block away from irving plaza (you'll probably see the line forming around the corner if you walk down the block.
if you're that afraid of subways, it's a buck fifty to do the bus!
shessh....the lack of balls here kills me sometimes. ;-)
wildkoba
************************************************************************ david y. kobayashi new york law school thrak75@aol.com
"i bring truth and understanding. i bring wit and wisdom fair- precious gifts beyond compare." -n. peart ************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:37:21 -0400 From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: House of Blues - Monday May 18th Message-ID: <199805061837.OAA05083@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
Doug "No, I'm not related to Walter, so stop asking!" Cronkhite asked: > Anyone know if there will be a problem with me bringing a DAT recorder to > this show?
Not if the staff doesn't find out. :) Generally speaking, unless you're going to a show like Phish/Crowes/moe./etc, you have to assume that taping is forbidden. (This is *always* as safe assumption if you're going to a DT show, unless you happen to be DT's drummer. :)
This is not to say don't do it. I'm no taper -- I merely trade -- but the more experienced tapers out there (Bahr, Mosh, Cox [is he still here?], others) can probably give you a good rundown of the do's and don't's. Good luck! :) -d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 14:40:18 -0400 From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: if you cab it to irving plaza, you're ball-less Message-ID: <199805061840.OAA05113@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
> sheesh....subway's 1 buck-fifty. it's 1 friggin stop. the "one stop" is one > block away from irving plaza (you'll probably see the line forming around the > corner if you walk down the block.
i agree whole-heartedly. ny's subway system is EASY. you pay one price regardless of where you're going, check out the nice color-coded maps hanging up in every station, get on the train, and just like that you're there. just travel in groups and don't look like a tourist, and there's nothing to worry about.
> shessh....the lack of balls here kills me sometimes. ;-)
balls n trains is where it's at. (sorry, had to :) -d
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:48:41 +0000 From: someone@enteract.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Nothing of Value Message-ID: <199805061844.NAA00707@wheat.farm.niu.edu>
> Chris, you bore me.
Hahah! Fair enough. I'm willing to shut up, but not when I'm publicly addressed. :) I'm done, in case you were wondering if you could open your eyes again.
> <<Seriously though, it should be cakewalk. Just get there early or > stay late. You're gonna bump into em.>> > This is the truth. I did it. All the rumours about them being the > nicest guys in the world are true. > Chris, thanks again for the advice. Worked like a charm.
Nyah Nyah, Told ya so!
Go Home and Practice!
Chris Ptacek someone@prognosis.com http://www.prognosis.com/madsman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 13:56:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Alan Estrada Adler <al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: DT FII tour videos Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.980506135600.48760G-100000@academ04.mty.itesm.mx>
I have this one in american format, I also have a steve vai concert taped from the same place...is the taping allowew in this country or what? it seems that the same people is taping the shows and I guess they sell them.
On Wed, 6 May 1998, graham boyle wrote:
> > Matej Grginic wrote: > > Hello jammers.. > > Does anyne know if there are any videotapes recorded > > from DT FII tour and available for trading. I`m especially > > interested in shows from Pordenone and Munich. > > I have on from the 97 European tour (Milano) a two camera mix, audience > recording, pretty decent quality, but it is in PAL format. > But unfortunately I couldn't possibly copy this without someone > on this list calling me lots of nasty names and hurting my fragile > feelings, accusing me of being a rip off or a counterfeiting pirate... > > yours in bootlegging > graham >
--- Alan Estrada Email: al766074@mail.mty.itesm.mx
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 15:07:26 EDT From: Uroborosss <Uroborosss@aol.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Calvin vs. Adam Message-ID: <bd3c69bf.3550b4ef@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-05-04 22:46:30 EDT, you write:
<< Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 20:31:24 EDT To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: ROTFLMAO Message-ID: <63c7b554.354e5ddd@aol.com> In response to Adam Cook: Adam - "In my mind, music should not only have some sort of artistic value, but most of all it should be listenable." Well, you can't argue what is listenable. I can't listen to Univers Zero - but I've heard a lot of people on the jam that love them. You can argue whether someone is sloppy or has poor technique - but listenable? If anyone had the answers to what is listenable and what isn't and therefore what should be music and what shouldn't, their CD collection would be the entire catalog of music. So my point was that the MI teacher was commenting on my style and not my technique. If he said I was sloppy or even hinted that I could have tried other ideas - I would have had no problem. But he just said my whole style was too "brutal". Well if he got the fact that I played brutal, and I wanted to play something "brutal" - then I'd say I didn't have a problem expressing myself. He got it, he just didn't accept it. Adam - "meaning things that sound like there is some logic behind them, before you can go off breaking all the rules" So everytime I meet someone I have to play something "accepted" to prove that when I play something "out there" they can say to themselves "Well he is playing 'out there' but he knows he is 'out there' so it is okay". That is the dumbest logic I have ever heard. You don't have to know the rules before you can break them. You have to know the rules before you "know" you are breaking the rules. Music came before rules. And the fact that you call them rules is laughable. It is "Music Theory" not "Music Rules". You do know the difference don't you? Adam in reference to my playing 'out there' - "This is pure garbage. You have to know the rules before you can break them. You can't just go off hitting any strings on the guitar because it FEELS right and you think there's nothing wrong with it. That's bullshit and unmusical." First - how do you know I don't know music theory? When I said I can't explain it, I didn't mean I can't explain what I am doing THEORY wise. If you really know THEORY, theory can explain just about anything you do. As far as my statement " I can't really explain it" I was referring to my style. I don't think it is revolutionary. I just think that trying to put things into words sometimes loses the actual idea. I don't know music rules, because there is no such thing. Nobody knows ALL of music theory because there are varying schools of theory. So I know theory, and I know I don't know all of music theory. So I guess no one can break the rules, because no one knows all the rules. Good RULE. I'd hate to live in your musical world. And guess what? I can go off hitting any string on the guitar because it FEELS right and think there is nothing wrong with it. Music theory is there to help you, not limit you. I'm sure there are many musicians we all listen to who don't know music theory but are amazingly musical. Music THEORY. THEORY. THEORY. Get it? Music can stand alone without theory. Music THEORY can't stand along without music. So to say Music Theory comes before Music, ROTFLMAO. I am not saying you should AVOID theory. I'm just saying you shouldn't use theory to control your musical ideas. Technique is more important than theory. Technique can limit what you want to play. Lack of knowledge of Music Theory can't. And without music in your head, technique and theory are worthless - unless you want to be in a cover band or be a non-writing member. I can't imagine somebody wanting to play a musical instrument but not want to write music. Adam states - "I'm also sure that it's bullshit that EVERY other teacher and student would tell you how cool you were. Believe it or not you have some fuckin FAULTS and if you were smart you would try to improve on them instead of ignoring any opinion of your playing that you don't like. " Where did you get the idea that I thought I was perfect? I said people liked my style. I have a problem with someone telling you your style is wrong. If he wanted to give me hints on some melodic ideas, I would have taken them. But he just said my style was wrong. That isn't teaching. What can I learn from that? And I am glad that your comprehension led you to the conclusion that I ignore any opinion of my playing that I don't like. I recall talking about economy vs. alternate picking a month ago here and I don't alternate pick. But I never said economy picking was better. I said that after trying both methods, economy picking was better for ME. I think if anyone should look at themselves - it should be you. You should really look at what music theory really is. You suggest it is a rule, it isn't. Adam continues - "But unforunately, the best way to do that is to play many types of music and be versatile, and MI is not going to do that for you. " So you have been to MI? It probably is more "rock" oriented, but it is not rock exclusive. Not by a long shot. You learn because you want to, not because you are forced to. If you are forced to learn something you don't want to learn, odds are you haven't learned anything. You could exchange MI in your quote with any school name. It is the player that makes the difference. Some people think MI is a joke, some people think Berklee is a joke. Those people are so CLOSE MINDED that they probaby will never get that far in life. And I'm glad you think the object in rock is to get a record contract. That is the business side of music. It has nothing to do with how good you are. And I suppose if you don't play rock, you don't want a record contract. Why would the connection of record contract-rock be any more significant to you than record contract-jazz? But I guess if you go to Berklee, they hand out a record contract with your degree? Hello, Steve Vai - didn't graduate. John Petrucci - didn't graduate. Mike Portnoy - didn't graduate. Reb Beach - didn't graduate. Somebody asked about Berklee and MI. I could only speak on my experience at MI. I believe I even ended by saying Berklee may actually be the better music school, but I don't know. I have never attended Berklee. And just so you know, the summer course isn't going to Berklee. That is not even close to the Berklee experience. And I'm sure someone will have someone come up to themand say that you are "strident, dissonant, too melodic, boring, brutal, wimpy". If their statement is an opinion without any reason, what can you possibly learn from them. And not everyone can always teach you something. Some people just have opinions, but they really don't have anything else. >>
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3849 **************************
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