YTSEJAM Digest 3860
Today's Topics:
1) miscellaneous ramblings
by "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
2) Re: "miscellaneous ramblings" adding bumholes
by The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
3) Rick Wakeman
by Bernardo Pulgar <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com>
4) A Mistake, Pink Floyd, Genesis
by Bernardo Pulgar <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com>
5) URGENT....PLEASE HELP
by Dave <hwoodson@ix.netcom.com>
6) Fab
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
7) How I got into DT
by The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3858
by ujonegr@psf220.lexis-nexis.com (Greg Jones)
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3859
by ujonegr@psf220.lexis-nexis.com (Greg Jones)
10) Music, Relatively speaking ...
by Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
11) Going away for the weekend
by The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
12)
by policast@ic8u82.settimo.italtel.it (Policastro Cosimo)
13) But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity...
by Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 10:22:02 +0200
From: "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: miscellaneous ramblings
Message-ID: <199805080721.KAA01375@xyz.estcard.ee>
Per:
> I think he lives in LA and does some crappy self-produced CD's. Living =
> up the money he has earned.
Whatever you're on, get off it. I've only got to say "Skunkworks" and
most of all, "Accident Of Birth" to you and if those don't ring the bell,
you're lost. :-)
Oh yeah, could you get rid of that BASE64 encoding crap at the end of each
message? Netscape can be configured.
Okay, off I wander.
As far as getting into Dream Theater goes, it was really simple, though
weird in my case. I borrowed a tape of Queensryche's "Promised Land" to
listen to and decide. Somewhere along the way, I pressed the play-button
twice and without me knowing it, the reverse function took off. As it was
the first time I was listening to the album, I didn't know anything wasn't
quite alright. One moment I found myself thinkin', "Wow, they've gotten so
much better! That kickass instrumental, and listen how Geoff sings that
nice ballad! Different voice somehow, though." Then, at the end of the
tape, I realized I'd been listening to Awake that was on the B-side of the
cassette. Rest = history.
Raivo Hool
NT administrator,
Estonian Card Center of Banks
e-mail: raitz@estcard.ee
Office: (+372) 6 711 416
GSM: (+372) 51 43 567
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 12:55:59 +0100
From: The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: "miscellaneous ramblings" adding bumholes
Message-ID: <98May8.100010gmt+0100.31372@gate.tranemo.se>
Raivo Hool wrote:
> Per:
> > I think he lives in LA and does some crappy self-produced CD's.
> > Living up the money he has earned.
> Whatever you're on, get off it.
I'm NOT getting off caffeine. Not ever.
> I've only got to say "Skunkworks" and
> most of all, "Accident Of Birth" to you and if those don't ring the bell,
> you're lost. :-)
> Oh yeah, could you get rid of that BASE64 encoding crap at the end of
each
> message? Netscape can be configured.
I wonder who's lost here. NT administrator? You know, I'm not using
Netspace. Hasn't Microsoft reached Estonia? Is Microsoft Exchange familiar
to you? Obviously not...
> Raivo Hool
You know, if I pronounce your name with a funny Swedish accent, it sounds
like the Swedish word for "Asshole". Honest!!! (_|_) >:-D
Don't start picking on me for being immature!
--------------------------------
//tHe WoRkInG mAn
aka Per Pettersson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| It seems to me |
| I could live my life |
| A lot better than I think I am. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>:-( Kill Trace Elliott!!! >:-(
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 00:55:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bernardo Pulgar <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Rick Wakeman
Message-ID: <19980508075531.5768.rocketmail@web1.rocketmail.com>
Check this out:
Return to Centre
Rick Wakeman signs to EMI Classics
London 6th May 1998:
Rick Wakeman has signed a deal with EMI Classics to record a new
symphonic opus, "Return to the Centre of the Earth", the sequel to
his highly successful "Journey to the Centre of the Earth", released
25 years ago.
The album will be recorded in September with the London Symphony
Orchestra and The English Chamber Choir, both reprising the roles
they played on the original recording. A number of high profile
guest artists have been approached to appear on the record.
"Return to the Centre of the Earth" will be released in the UK on
18th January 1999 - the twenty fifth anniversary of the first live
performance of its predecessor "Journey to the Centre of the Earth".
After a long and successful career, firstly with the rock group YES,
and latterly as a solo artist on such projects as "The Six Wives of
Henry VIII" and "The Myths and Legends of King Arthur...", this is
Rick Wakeman's first collaboration with EMI Classics.
I am genuinely thrilled to be involved with EMI Classics. Richard
Lyttelton and his team have understood exactly the potential of
'Return' and also realise the opportunities of merging today's
technology with the wonderful natural sounds of orchestra and choir.
It is without question the most important and exciting musical
journey I have been involved with since the original 'Journey to the
Centre of the Earth'.
Richard Lyttelton, President of EMI Classics commented, "We are
delighted to be involved with this project. I am a huge fan of the
original piece, and the chance to work with such a talented and well
known modern composer was too good to miss. After the successful
"Standing Stone" project with Paul McCartney last year which marked
the 100 year centenary of EMI Classics, we are keen to encourage
modern composers of this calibre, and projects such as this can only
enhance our repertoire."
Rick says:
"Now that the contracts have been signed, work really begins in
earnest on what will undoubtedly prove to be the most important
piece of music that I have been involved with for twenty five years.
Thanks to advances in technology in every field, "RETURN" will be
light years ahead of every other recording I have undertaken with
orchestra and choir combined with keyboards and other electronic
instruments.
The album will be produced in varying locations culminating in the
orchestral and choir sessions being held in London where the mixing
will also take place.
The venue for the concert will be announced within two weeks. It is
planned to hold back a block of some of the best tickets for sale to
RWCC members (no restrictions on numbers apply), if you would like
to go onto the list currently being drawn up for members tickets
then please send an email to returnseats@rwcc.com clearly stating
your RWCC membership number, but send no money at this stage please.
Over the coming weeks and months, this special "RETURN" section will
be continually updated with news and progress on both the recording
and the concert.
Fine, huh?
Regards:
Bernardo
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:21:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bernardo Pulgar <b.pulgar@rocketmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: A Mistake, Pink Floyd, Genesis
Message-ID: <19980508082156.6012.rocketmail@attach1.rocketmail.com>
My hard drive died and I lost a ton of Jams that I haven't read
(along with other things). Can someone here be so kind as to zip
them and send them to me? The Jams are from 3771 to 3826 (both
inclusive). There must be someone who saves these messages. I did,
in case I needed to check something. Thanx beforehand. To Rogerio
Brito: Camel's mp3s are gone too. Give me a week to make them again.
BTW, you haven't told me if you want them or not.
These threads are probably dead by now, but I'm way back on my jams.
I'm like Ricardo Rosset (off the pace, heheheh)
Longshot wrote:
>Saying that the new stuff is better than DSOTM is an insult to that
>album. It was the best album PF has ever done, and probably the
best
>they ever will do. TDB, while a good album, cannot compete. MLOR
>was pretty much a solo album for Gilmour. Same goes for TFC and
>Roger Waters.
We agree there. The person who wrote with desdain about the Roger
Waters era PF simply hates Roger. That's something that I can't
quite understand. Anyway, I have to disagree with you here:
>check out the Delicate Sound of Thunder Video (not the album). It is
>probably the best live video I have ever seen, including a very
>orgasmic version of GGITS (Much better than on Pulse......
Usually, I don't like to poke into the Jam very much. I like to keep
quiet, but this comment makes me come out and balance things a bit
here. Well I was into PF until I saw this video. It sucks. It's true
that they play GGitS much better than in Pulse, but what they do
with Comfortably Numb in DSoT is simply put: THE Worst Disgrace done
to a Masterpiece EVER: the people that PF gathered to help them pull
out that tour do fairly well their jobs as far as playing their
instruments BUT when it comes to singing, they SUCK royally! I even
was reluctant to check Pulse (the video) because I thought it'd be
more of the same crap. Thank God it wasn't. All in all, Delicate...
is (IMHO) a worthless album and wouldn't recommend it.
On Genesis, someone posted that he or she isn't much into post
Gabriel era Genesis. Well you don't know what you're missing: Wind
and Wuthering, A Trick of the Tail, Seconds Out, ...And Then there
Were Three... and Duke are superb albums. While it's true that
Gabriel was most of Genesis when it came to Content, there were 4
other talented musicians which still offered really good music.
Besides, Phil Colins sang on several songs from the early PG Genesis
albums (off the top of my head 'More Fool Me' from Selling
England...), so you shouldn't be too unfamiliar with his voice on
their latter stuff.
On a different topic: I really feel bad when I get all these posts
from you:
"Hey, I'm going to the DT gig in (insert your venue, city, etc.
here) and making plans to meet others and buying DT tickets, and so
on. I just stare and look from the distance (Australia), mouth
watering, cursing (el grandísimo Coño de la Madreeeeee!).... So you
guys are going to attend a DT concert for the 3rd, 5th. 8th. time?
And last month you went to a Fates Warning one? Mike Portnoy said:
"I think we've given the 'Entire World' the opportunity to see us"
but I don't think so.
On Grammar crap: some people here in the list don't know the
difference between:
there
their
they're
Anyway, hoo cairs? Manee peepole doo!
Frederick: Hola chamo! Eres tú el único venezolano aquí además de
mí? Cómo está la vaina por allá?
-BP
NP: Jim Matheos-First Impressions
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 04:25:56 -0400
From: Dave <hwoodson@ix.netcom.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: URGENT....PLEASE HELP
Message-ID: <3552C194.625@ix.netcom.com>
Hey dudes...and dudettes ;) I just found out that a last minute trip to
Ohio was in order to see OFB live in a small setting once again !!!
Would anyone in the CINCINNATI area, or anyone going to this show,
please e-mail me about where's a good meeting place/watering hole in
this area....or just who from the list is going and what you're gonna
wear, and where you can be found. I'd really like to meet some of you
and put some faces with all these names on the Jam. I haven't posted to
the Jam in a while...been WAY the hell backed up on reading ! Also ANY
DTC about this venue would be MUCHO welcomed as well as a suggestion on
a decent place to crash. Please help....I've got VERY little time to
get this organized and as stated above, I'm WAYYYYY behind on Jam
reading, so I apologize if I've offended for any reason... To ANYone
going to this show...I look forward to metting some people who know what
kick-ass music really IS !!
Thanks in Advance for ANY help,
Zildjian
ICQ #1967352
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 01:55:09 -0700
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'DT'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Fab
Message-ID: <30434A6945ABD1119A3A00A024D1C34124A9E1@ms.kallback.com>
Maybe Fabrice should join his bandmate Rob. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 14:39:36 +0100
From: The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: How I got into DT
Message-ID: <98May8.114349gmt+0100.31373@gate.tranemo.se>
Hi.
If it's still of interest, I'll write something about how I got into DT.
Two mates of mine had been at a friend of theirs (I don't know him) and
they watched a little of the LIT video - they're all guitar freaks, and
wanted to see (and hear) JP. They told me that they were incredibly
skilful, but they didn't really like their music (what morons!).
I wanted to check 'em up and see if they were any good. It happened that a
friend and classmate of mine had a lousy tape recording of I&W (45 minutes,
almost all of LTL was missing). And how they ruled! I got to buy I&W and a
short time later, Awake - and I was caught in the web.
Still, I am only in possession of these two records, but I've listended to
WDADU in a record store, and I am going to order FII by post in a few days.
I just hope that I won't get disappointed.
DT helped me to discover the whole progressive genre. I now also listen to
Yes, Rush, Marillion and Pink Floyd. Thank heavens for I'm still not stuck
with Iron Maiden and Soundgarden!
Three final words: Dream Theater rules!!!
--------------------------------
//tHe WoRkInG mAn
aka Per Pettersson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| It seems to me |
| I could live my life |
| A lot better than I think I am. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>:-( Kill Trace Elliott!!! >:-(
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 07:04:50 -0400
From: ujonegr@psf220.lexis-nexis.com (Greg Jones)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3858
Message-ID: <199805081104.HAA02167@psf220.pclprod.meaddata.com>
Yes, I'll be at Annies with a friend who's not on this list.
Perhaps we'll run into each other.
Do you know what exit Annies is nearest to from I-75?
I haven't gotten specific directions yet.
Greg
"Greg's Music Theory Page"
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/palladium/6197
Hey Greg,
That would be the show at Annies, corrrect? Matt (another ytsejammer) and=
I
will be there as well. Anyone else? Is there a gathering planned?
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 07:19:05 -0400
From: ujonegr@psf220.lexis-nexis.com (Greg Jones)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3859
Message-ID: <199805081119.HAA04764@psf220.pclprod.meaddata.com>
> > But I'm not a believer in cultural
> > relativism, nor am I a believer in musical relativism.
Cultural relativism is a moral position that is difficult to defend
because of inconsistencies in communication, values, and it's
counter-intuitive conclusions. There are moral implications... it's
a moral system. Musical relativism is not, and doesn't suffer from
the same problems. It think (and I am quite possibly wrong) that it
is counter-intuitive NOT to support some form of musical relativism.
(snipped for brevity)
You bring up some valid points that I tend to agree with. I'm a
Christian so I definitely believe in absolutes but I have what I
consider to be a unique perspective on the subject.
The reason that I believe that morals are *absolute* is because my
morality is *relative* to God and my God is *absolute*.
Tying this in to music, let me play devil's advocate. Could a DT fan,
objectively criticize "Hootie and the Blowfish" upon the basis that
their music is too simple? And couldn't this allegation be objectively
proven? Now this doesn't mean that someone is ignorant if they like
"Hootie" for they may agree that Hootie is simple music but respond
that they don't want to listen to complex music. The simple music of
Hootie moves them more than DT's complexity.
The person's reaction to the music is subjective, but objective
criticisms can be made. Who would argue against the notion that it's
easier to dance to rap than to DT? Most rappers who dislike metal do so
because they want music to dance to. Most of us in this newsgroup like
DT because we want to hear music that is complex, unique, creative, and
different.
I guess I'm merely saying that there appears to be an overlap between
the subjective and the objective.
Greg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 04:36:22 -0700
From: Chris Oates <aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
To: "Ytsejam (E-mail)" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Music, Relatively speaking ...
Message-ID: <01BD7A3A.DD30D9E0.aspect@cats.ucsc.edu>
Chris P Sed:
>Musical relativism is not, and doesn't suffer from
>the same problems. It think (and I am quite possibly wrong) that it
>is counter-intuitive NOT to support some form of musical relativism.
I agree with the "some form" part.
>Let me explain. We, representing an unfortunate minority of music
>fans between ages 14-40, (I know we extend outside of that range...)
>like Dream Theater. A significant majority, consisting of all ranges
>of intellects and educational backgrounds, within that age group,
>dislike Dream Theater. They can offer as many reasons why they find
>DT distasteful as we can offer for liking them. Would their majority
>not somehow represent a hierarchy, and if their decision as a group
>has some non-relativistic affect, would that not mean that we are
>wrong for liking DT?
Musical absolutism, so far as I understand it, has never made any
judgements about "right" or "wrong" -- "good" or "bad" About the only
thing it comes close is "consonant" vs "dissonant" -- many people assume
that consonant == good, and that dissonant == bad. Part of really
understanding theory is knowing that that simplistic view is false. (I'm
not saying that you have that view) Consonant and dissonant intervals, and
the "goodness" of them, is up to the context of the music, and the ear of
the listener. In that sense I support "some form" of musical relativism.
However, if by finding that there are exceptions, we discount the theory
entirely, we lose a lot more. The point of theory and the "rules" is that
they work in _most_ cases. And, by studying what effect certain notes have
in "most" cases, we can get a really good idea of what we may want to do
with our music in "most" situations.
I look at it this way: If, by taking an absolute viewpoint of "These
sounds are pleasing in this context, and these others are unnerving" we can
learn something and grow as musicians, what's the harm? So long as we
understand that "pleasing" is not equivalent to "right" and "unnerving" is
not equal to "bad" it's useful. I think I said this before, but if we were
to always make all of the possibilities of exceptions, and state all the
disclaimers about cultural and personal preference, by the time we were
done with that, there'd be no room left for the actual idea.
ANd yes, this was written at 4:30 a.m. so please forgive any brain
misfirings that may have occurred.
~Chris
(I'm the five spaces and a tilde Chris, not the no spaces and a tilde
Chris. Someone's been copying my tag!)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:48:16 +0100
From: The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Going away for the weekend
Message-ID: <98May8.155222gmt+0100.31361@gate.tranemo.se>
Hi. Just wanted to pop in and say that I'm going away for the weekend and I
am too lazy to NOT unsubscribe while being away. 200 letters on Monday
morning as just above too many.
If you have anything you want to say to me - email me at
nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se, and I'll read it on Monday.
Bye for now!
--------------------------------
//tHe WoRkInG mAn
aka Per Pettersson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| It seems to me |
| I could live my life |
| A lot better than I think I am. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>:-( Kill Trace Elliott!!! >:-(
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 16:25:33 +0200
From: policast@ic8u82.settimo.italtel.it (Policastro Cosimo)
To: -v@ic8u82.settimo.italtel.it, ytsejam@ax.com
Message-ID: <9805081425.AA26144@ic8u82.settimo.italtel.it>
Hi all
I would like to know if someone of you listen
one of my favourite band:
SEPULTURA from Brazil
I know that now the ex-singer MAX CAVALERA is with
a new band ,SOULFLY...
Can you tell me how is the new album?
.maybe i will buy it..
Bye Cosimo (Milan,ITALY)
______________"FIND ALL YOU NEED IN YOUR MIND,IF YOU TAKE THE TIME!!!____
*************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 16:14:27 +0200
From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity...
Message-ID: <35531342.B61792D6@algonet.se>
Hello everyone,
I'm forwarding here a short email conversation I have had with Mike
Portnoy around two weeks ago. You be the judge: is DT losing its
musical integrity in search for money? Am I an asshole since I didn't
grovel before mike and because I don't worship the ground he walks
upon?
Just to clarify: I don't expect DT to do anything to satisfy me, it
would have just been nice if MP would have answered my questions.
Bottom line is: DT would do what they want no matter what I'll do, but
I wouldn't buy their CDs saying "hey man, it's still DT!!!" if they
start putting out crap. I wouldn't listen to YNM, love it and then
not love a song of the same quality because it's not DT. I would keep
on skipping many songs on FII and not force myself to like them.
What's the target of this post? Create discussion, I guess - this is
a discussion group. Discuss, then.
> > > > > Subject: Re: Sorry. Can we still be friends?
> > > > > Date: Fri, 24 Apr 1998 19:12:49 +0200
> > > > > From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
> > > > > To: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hey dude,
> > > > > > Don't sweat it!!!!!
> > > > > > I mean no harm, I just want our side of the coin heard!
> > > > > > Believe me, I prefer to be playing OUR full show to OUR audience,
> > > > > > but we need to continue to develop our career in order to grow.
> > > > > > (and most importantly for me - NOT at the expense of our real fan base...
> > > > > > which I don't think we're doing in this case...)
> > > > >
> > > > > Is the target of DT to increase your fanbase and get more money?
> > > > >
> > > > > Developing your career = Earning more money
> > > > > or
> > > > > Developing your career = Creating more music
> > > > >
> > > > > Please reply.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Subject: Re: Sorry. Can we still be friends?
> > > > Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:32:55 EDT
> > > > From: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
> > > > To: seroussi@algonet.se
> > > >
> > > > In a perfect world BOTH....
> > > > The more $ we make (which isn't much mind you...), the more freedom we'll have
> > > > to continue to create more music...
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Sorry. Can we still be friends?
> > > Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 23:15:38 +0200
> > > From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
> > > To: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
> > >
> > > The catchier & more mainstream music you make -> more $ -> more freedom
> > > to create catchy mainstream music (metallica comes to mind...)
> > >
> > > > We all have families to provide for and if the cash flow stops, then everybody
> > > > will begin to look for other means of income, and then the music stops...
> > >
> > > And make your hands dirty with some real work would be so bad? Must you
> > > live off your art?
> > >
> > > Take Dan Swanö for example. He works in his own study as a sound
> > > engineer and... guess what? He put out many CDs with various forms of
> > > music. Many of them are readily available to the general public. To name
> > > a few bands he was/is part of: Edge of Sanity (7 CDs), Pan-Thy-Monium
> > > (4 CDs), Nightingale (2CDs)...yep, the music totally stops when you have
> > > other forms of income and a family to support.
> > >
> > > > So it's not as cut and dry as you are trying to make it out to be.....
> > > >
> > > > Carpe Diem,
> > > > Mike Portnoy
> > >
> > > Please don't quote Rush's Spirit of the Radio.
> > >
> > > Thank you for listening.
> >
> > Subject: Re: Sorry. Can we still be friends?
> > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 1998 23:05:50 EDT
> > From: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
> > To: seroussi@algonet.se
> >
> > Huuhh??????
> > And it's called The Spirit of Radio..
> > Later dude...(much)
>
> Subject: Re: Sorry. Can we still be friends?
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:37:36 +0200
> From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
> To: Portnoy420 <Portnoy420@aol.com>
>
> Nice way to avoid the questions posed in the rest of the letter...
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3860
**************************
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