YTSEJAM Digest 3878
Today's Topics:
1) Rap in general and Poof Daddy in particular
by The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
2) Hearing damage
by Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
3) Re: Klank/Cornerstone
by Dan Temmesfeld <dantemm@erinet.com>
4) LTE vs. FII (plus a sell-out)
by Michael Karlsson <o-karmic@jmk.su.se>
5) Re: blind
by q9720680@mail.connect.usq.edu.au (Paul Dyer)
6) Message to Chris Ptacek
by AL <al@isd.net>
7) Re:Derek in Madison
by AL <al@isd.net>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875
by Haje Jan Kamps <hajejan@mail.geocities.com>
9) Puff Daddy
by "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
10) Re: Puff Daddy
by graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net>
11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
12) Stuff
by NGA <nga@software-ag.de>
13) Re: Puff Daddy
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
14) Philly
by mccurdy@kennametal.ibmmail.com
15) album Reviews
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdm.com>
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 14:49:09 +0100
From: The Working Man <nv99701@egymn.tranemo.se>
To: "'Multiple recipients of list'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Rap in general and Poof Daddy in particular
Message-ID: <98May11.115320gmt+0100.31372@gate.tranemo.se>
Well,
Guess there has started up a discussion whether Puff Daddy and his fellow
rappers are musicians or what they now are.
What I have to say, maybe is coloured by my personal musical taste - 'cause
I hate rap, I hate the persons behind it, I hate what it stands for, I hate
the people who listen to rap (the ones I know, at least), and the "music"
disgusts me beyond understanding.
The Digital Man a.k.a. Chris Merlo wrote this:
> I *never* said that Puff Doggy's "music" is worthless. It entertains a
great
> many people. I just think it's the highest form of cheating.
Right. And I guess THAT's the whole problem with this - people like it.
When the stupid youths in my neighbourhood first heard "I'll be missing
you", the LOVED it - and they didn't know the original! So, they got to be
uneducated musical morons that live in belief that Puffy's ruthless
vandalizing of a classic is being innovative! Oh, hell it isn't! I
recognized the song at once and my first thought was "What the f--k!? He's
just copying!".
Let 'em dig it, right - but Puffy's made a freakin' fortune of THAT ONE
SINGLE SONG! And it isn't his! Damn it this world's gone wrong!
And I didn't weep when I heard that first 2Pac, then Notorius B.I.G. got
killed. I lauged for myself and leaned back comfortably in my chair, with a
grin on my face. I know it's not right (even they deserved to live) - but
that's the way I reacted to it. "2Pac's dead! Yes! Get the criminals to the
hell where they belong!"
Right. 'nuff said for now. I guess everybody thinks I'm just bullshitting
here.
Have a great time, fellows (or non-fellows)!
--------------------------------
Right now:
Favourite song #1: "Echoes" - Pink Floyd
Favourite song #2: "Working Man" - Rush
Favourite album: "The Wall" - Pink Floyd (Rog Waters may be a general
swine, but this he's done good!)
--------------------------------
//tHe WoRkInG mAn
aka Per Pettersson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
| It seems to me |
| I could live my life |
| A lot better than I think I am. |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>:-( Kill Trace Elliott!!! )-:<
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:24:41 EDT
From: Calvin 6S <Calvin6S@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Hearing damage
Message-ID: <b88d4d76.3556d1ea@aol.com>
<<I usually wear one earplug and switch it from one ear to the other
every ten minutes or so. That way I always have one fresh ear while the
other one is resting (hearing damage results from a combination of volume
and duration).>>
That sounds like a very DANGEROUS way to go about protecting your hearing.
Yes duration and volume are dangerous - but you forget that SUDDEN bursts of
volume can be even more damaging. If you all of the sudden take out the ear
plug after finding this nice "resting place", you are really putting your
eardrum (and inner ear hairs) at a great risk.
Please don't do this. PAY the extra money to go and get FORM fitting ear
plugs. My roommate has these and I am thinking of getting some because the
reduce db while keeping the harmonic spectrum a little more intact. Sure -
they are EXPENSIVE - but its your hearing dammit. Can you put a price on
something that brings you so much joy?
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:18:02 -0400
From: Dan Temmesfeld <dantemm@erinet.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Klank/Cornerstone
Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980511071802.00792ea0@mail.erinet.com>
>Haha, fuckin' A! This is looking to be a good year. Now only
>if Klank was scheduled to play..
according to an interview on his page, he wanted to play, but it didn't
quite work out this year. this year's c-stone line-up looks good, but i am
kinda pissed that GC is playig the same time as living sacrifice and over
the rhine.
i think i'll hafta watch GC, and then head over to OtR when GC's
done...OtR'll probably play for hours- knowing them.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 13:24:09 +0200
From: Michael Karlsson <o-karmic@jmk.su.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: LTE vs. FII (plus a sell-out)
Message-ID: <v03020906b17c8dbc64ef@[130.237.155.57]>
Kurt Kober wrote some very good stuff on the jam a few days ago. Or - I
think it's good since I agree totally with all of it :) I've never agreed
to 100% with any post on the jam before I think.
I had the exact same reaction when I first heard LTE : "I wish they had
some of this stuff on FII"...but now I don't think so anymore. FII is good
as it is, and I still enjoy listening to it all the way through every now
and then.
LTE is very enjoyable, but it's not as focused and well-made in every
possible way as FII. And of course it wasn't intended to be either.
About the sell-out debate:
I don't think DT sold out at all btw either. What is a sell-out? As long
as the music is good, it doesn't matter if it's commercial. And DT isn't
even very commercial anyway. I'm REALLY tired of hearing that shit about
FII being a sell-out. REALLY TIRED!!! The Beatles were total sell-outs in
many ways, since they really tried to become/later stay popular, but the
quality of their work sure didn't suffer at all.
As I've said before: Anna Lee is one of my favourite DT songs. It's
commercial - but it's brilliant. I will be disappointed if there are no
songs like that on the next DT-album. You can quote me on that :)
Michael Karlsson
Kurt Kober wrote:
>(Apologies for the length of this post, I hope it's not dripping with HTML
>tags this time.)
>
>Listening to Liquid Tension Experiment for the first time was a much better
>experience for me than the first time I played Falling Into Infinity. I was
>blown away by the speed and mind-numbing chops of "Paradigm Shift," and then
>it just didn't stop, which blew me away even more.
>
>And I do remember thinking at the time that THIS is what I'd wanted to hear
>when I put Falling Into Infinity into the CD player so many months before.
>And yeah, for a sec, I thought, "if only DT had done this."
>
>But time has passed, and while listening to LTE for the first time was
>amazing, the novelty seems to have worn off. On the other hand, I find
>myself liking Falling Into Infinity more each time I listen to it. I
>consider it a very solid album, and like one of the other jammers who posted
>on this subject, I place it at a somewhat distant second behind Images and
>Words. (Just as an aside, do you think DT ever gets tired of hearing how
>frikkin great I&W is?)
>
>I'd go so far as to say some of DT's best stuff ever is right there on
>Falling Into Infinity. The songs on FII are more personal, better written,
>and more well-produced. Each one is a little finished product, polished and
>refined, whereas LTE strikes me as a collection of jam sessions. Brilliant,
>nifty-as-hell jam sessions, but not very deep. IMO (ATS). In that regard, I
>don't even know if the two albums can be compared fairly.
>
>And as for Jordan Rudess, yes, he's a great keyboardist, as evinced by LTE.
>But hearing that album, I have to say I'm glad Dream Theater went with
>Derek. He seems to have a bit more of a distinctive style. Rudess struck me
>as having graduated from the Jens Johanssen/Tony Macalpine Institute of
>Keyshredding.
>
>Of course, I could be totally wrong about everything.
>KK
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 21:43:44 -0700
From: q9720680@mail.connect.usq.edu.au (Paul Dyer)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: blind
Message-ID: <3557D380.28AE@mail.connect.usq.edu.au>
By the look of Haje's name he sounds like he is from somewhere else
other than the USA! (Possibly Dutch?? - that's a guess)
Anyhow we can probably assume that this is an obvious misunderstanding
by someone who doesn't speak english as a first language....I mean put
yourself in his shoes.....he may not pick up on sarcasm etc.....
If he honestly thought that D-man was having a go at Damon then his
response was fair.....and probably didn't deserve such a scathing
reply...
Don't know about the personal details/martial arts experience aka "I'm
gonna beat you up" part though....
Just a misunderstanding....the wonders of cross culturalism! :)
Cheers
Paul D.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 06:57:35 -0500
From: AL <al@isd.net>
To: YTSE Jammers <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Message to Chris Ptacek
Message-ID: <3556E7AF.FB5D2543@isd.net>
Chris,
How will I recognize you?
Maybe you could wear a pair of mouse ears!
-- See ya, AL...Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems http://www.isd.net/astrosch/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - Red Buttons
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 07:16:02 -0500 From: AL <al@isd.net> To: YTSE Jammers <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re:Derek in Madison Message-ID: <3556EC02.E6283D51@isd.net>
>From: Beyond the Mirror <mail@beyondthemirror.com>
>Subject: Re: Derek in Madison
AL <al@isd.net> wrote...
<<<I met Derek for the first time in Madison on... <<<day in question... he was very personable <<<to my friends and I. Were you acting like a dork?
>Derek's tantrum was not aimed at me. I was adjusting lights when he was >checking out his gear. I had hoped to have the chance to talk to him when >he was done - but after he had gone ballistic over his monitor I chickened >out. By the way, yesterday I talked with two other people who were there >and they remembered the incident pretty much the same way I did.
>Note: I'm not claiming that I'm not a dork, just that it wouldn't have had >anything to do with Derek's behavior :-)
>Josh Becker Understood. I guess I never seen that side of him. I will admit that I was outside behind the Barrymore, and not in the building. Maybe Derek fell victim to some bad popcorn farts inside and was sooooo refreshed by the clean cheese land air outside, he couldn't help being pleasant. Just a thought... -- See ya, AL...
Switchcraft Communications & Microsystems http://www.isd.net/astrosch/index.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Never raise your hands to your kids. It leaves your groin unprotected. - Red Buttons
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:14:21 -0400 From: Haje Jan Kamps <hajejan@mail.geocities.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875 Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980511073422.007d2eb0@mail.geocities.com>
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 23:57:11 -0400 ]From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> >? Well said, D! I am very very proud of you.. And it thought me a new >> dimention of the DT list.. Let's harass people! That sounds like fun.
>Wow, you're a stupid fuck, aren't you? Hmm.. That is a rather interresting start... Okay.. Now in one sentence.. Let's analyze.. I stepped on his feet.. I STOMPED on his feet. Which brings another question to my mind.. Who else of y'all did NOT understand that this was some heavy sarcasm? Yea I have been following the thread, and yea I understand you two are close. Of course I couldn't know y'all know each other personally, but heck. That is out of the order.
Appology sent to D in private mail.
Haje Jan Kamps +---------------------+ | Haje Jan Kamps | +-------------------+---------------------+ | http://home.sol.no/~lrovers/haje/ | +-----------------------------------------+ |I'm through just getting by | |Countless times a friend has told me | |Watch out for the wave | |Now it seems the sea will be my grave | |And still you swim to save me | |Even though the water is much colder now | | | |Dream Theater: Don`t look past me | +-----------------------------------------+
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:36:12 -0400 From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Puff Daddy Message-ID: <4AA929543BC8D111A4E800600808ACE524B7BA@HAMSXHA2>
Chris Ptacek wrote,
>Why is it okay for DT to cover tunes and sell a disc of the stuff, >but not okay for Puff Daddy to make his own stuff out of tunes, with >permission from the original artist? Because you guys like DT, and >not rap? That's all I can come up with. If Petrucci released a cd >full of the little covers he does, like Purple Rain and all that >stuff, on a cd, you guys would all be raving about it. Forget >the fact that we'd have Prince fans saying "Who does this Petrucci >guy think he is? He can't write his own tunes... he has to go and >ruin a classic song!" I mean, anyone that says that must be an >ignorant fuck.
The difference is that Petrucci would probably have a drummer re-record the drums, a bassist re-record the bass, and a keyboardis re-record the keys. Then he'd have a producer and an engineer in the booth tweaking the knobs. Puff gets one of those vocal-eliminators that radio stations use and then sings over it.
Doing a cover is a tribute to a band, IMO. What Puff is doing is raping the song.
Nicholas Giannotti JointSTARS Contracts 781-377-6745 / giannottin@hanscom.af.mil "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool."
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 22:47:17 +1000 From: graham boyle <icarus@sydney.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Puff Daddy Message-ID: <3556F355.883B2DA0@sydney.net>
Giannotti, Nick wrote: > Doing a cover is a tribute to a band, IMO. What Puff is doing is raping the > song.
All rap is, is someone talking over 'someone else's' music. Rap is not music or art, it's just fucking noise and it requires next to no talent to 'compose' and perform this alleged form of music/entertainment.
This is not just my opinion, this is a 'fact' <Sorry Arash, I 'stole' one of your infamous lines there> Yes I am prejudiced against this, hang me for it if you must
yours in noise graham
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:25:02 -0400 From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3875 Message-ID: <199805111325.JAA23103@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
> Which brings another question to my mind.. Who else of y'all did NOT > understand that this was some heavy sarcasm? Yea I have been following the > thread, and yea I understand you two are close. Of course I couldn't know > y'all know each other personally, but heck. That is out of the order.
Because of the tone of your post, and the lack of smileys, it seemed like you were on a militant disabled-rights campaign, aimed at bringing down The Man for his injustices. I'll defer if anyone thinks I was out of line, but my sarcasm detector's needle didn't even flinch.
> Appology sent to D in private mail.
And accepted in public. :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 15:26:00 +0100 From: NGA <nga@software-ag.de> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Stuff Message-ID: <01BD7CF1.1B356A90@pcnga.software-ag.de>
Hi all
three new CDs up for review soon when work cools down a bit (software managers who move dates for beta tests forward without consulting the developers will be among the first to be put up against the wall and shot when the revolution comes). Prepare yourselves for the following aural delights:
RAGE - XIII STIGMATA - Solum Mente Infirmis THEATRE OF TRAGEDY - Aegis
MTV news - it looks like MTV is slowly but surely killing itself here in sunny Germany. Viewing figures published in the weekly 'Der Spiegel' show that even at peak time (6pm to 10pm) only 19,000 couch potatoes watch this wretched channel.
Go home and drink! (blatantly stolen from Chris howeveryouspellhisname)
stay safe and happy listening Neil Gallop (nga@software-ag.de) Currently playing: Vauxdvihl - To Dimension Logic
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:30:37 -0400 From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Puff Daddy Message-ID: <199805111330.JAA23126@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
Graham the Aussie protested:
> All rap is, is someone talking over 'someone else's' music.
Not all of it. There are rappers (though usually not as succesful as those we've discussed recently) that perform with a real, living, breathing band. And, no, I'm not referring to Korn or Limp Bizkit (although I like those bands, too). I mean traditional rappers, rapping over music performed on traditional instruments.
> Rap is not music or art, it's just fucking noise and it > requires next to no talent to 'compose' and perform this > alleged form of music/entertainment.
That I disagree with. Now, I would imagine, not being a fan, you've never tried to rap along with a rap album. It ain't easy. Rappers tend to fit a *lot* more words into a measure than rock singers do. It's hard enough to remember all that and do it in rhythm. I can't imagine having to write that much.
> This is not just my opinion, this is a 'fact' > <Sorry Arash, I 'stole' one of your infamous lines there> > Yes I am prejudiced against this, hang me for it if you must
Nah. Who else can get everyone's panties in a bunch as efficiently as you? :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
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Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 09:48:43 EDT From: mccurdy@kennametal.ibmmail.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Philly Message-ID: <199805111349.GAA04128@odin.ax.com>
--- Received from HQ02MEMO.TC6NSMM MCCURDY, SHAWN 05-11-98 09:28
Well, my road trip to Philly on Saturday turned out better than expected. I didn't forget to take the tickets, I didn't wreck my car, I got to meet some other Jammers, oh, and I got to see one killer show!!! I think that I'll just list some of the highlights of the evening instead of writing a book like I did for the Pittsburgh show last November.
- First time that I got "frisked" before a concert. Welcome to Philadelphia! - The opening band played their 50 minute concept song. Oh, my mistake, I thought that it was just one long, drawn-out jam to a synth loop :) - Seeing DT on a bigger stage with plenty of room to move around was a treat. They were a little cramped on the stage in Pittsburgh (last Nov.) and it was cool to see JP and JLB moving all over the place. - Being almost right in front of JP for his guitar solo made standing in the rain before the show worth every second of it. He just made it look so effortless. Flight of the Bumblebee just smoked! I don't have to be a guitarist to appreciate his talent. - CIAW w/Drum solo. One of my favorites. Only letdown was not getting to play along with Mike. He headed up to the balcony with his drum and picked someone up there. Sounded good though. I probably would've froze up anyway if he came and put the drum in front of me! - I did get to catch one of Mike's sticks this time! - I wish that I knew that I was going to end up with a backstage pass so that I could have handed Mike the banner that I made him instead of throwing it to him. Oh well, he still got it :) - This was the first time that I got to go backstage, which was definitely cool. JP backed into the coffee pot and got a little wet so he headed out to get changed into something dry. JLB talked to everyone for a while. DS was in to say "Hi" and then disappeared and MP brought Melody and his wife in. Mike had to sign stuff one-handed though, because Melody would not leave his other arm :) - Meeting some other Jammers in line and inside was cool too. "Hi" to Dave, Steve, Syrinx, and the Atlanta Jammers Paul and Adam (Did you guys make it home alright?)
Definitely a cool evening with new friends and great music!!!
See-ya, Shawn
---- 05-11-98 09:28 ---- Sent to ------------------------------------ -> IBMMAIL.I1739025 Advantis IBM Mail Exchange
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 10:03:10 -0400 From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@bdm.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: album Reviews Message-ID: <3557051E.C604B6C@bdm.com>
I got a few new cds this past week:
Liquid Tension Experiment:LTE-This cd kicks. Got this from cdnow. The cover is strange but the music is great. Kinda weird that it was basically Mike Portnoy's project even though it was basically a jamfest. The storyline by Mike was awesome. Some songs remind me of other songs but I can't yet place what. These things are always put together quickly. Black Light Syndrome was also put together quickly...
Yngwie Malmsteen:Facing the Animal-Musically this cd is great-typical Yngwie. I'm not too keen about the lead singer. Maybe he will grow on me but right now I rank him as Yngwie's worst vocalist. I looked throughout the booklet for a lineup listing but there is none. So who is the lead singer and who are the other musicians?
I finally watched some of the Fates Warining APSOG video. I just feel it is too overproduced and doesn't have that "live" feel. Still cool to see some concert shots along with video. Too bad they had the lousy big nosed keyboardist instead of the guy from Divine Regale.
My wife got these which I listend to briefly: Dave Matthews Band:(whatever the new one is)-I guess DMB is alternative prog if that is a word. This is typical DMB. Alanis (I hate men) adds to a couple of songs.
Tori Amos:(whatever the new one is)-Typical Tori but with a band this time around. From looking at the pictures in the liner notes I am once again convinced that she is whacked...
NP:Fates Warning-Parallels -- |-------------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty Email : pdaugher@mcl.bdm.com | | Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html | |===================================================================| | "That is not an option, Mr. Mulder" -- X-Files | |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 3878 **************************
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