YTSEJAM Digest 3873
Today's Topics:
1) Anybody have a full Philly set list?
by bigtop@voicenet.com
2)
by Jon Parmet <jonp@wicked.stigmata.org>
3)
by Jon Parmet <jonp@wicked.stigmata.org>
4) ummm
by "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
5) Led Zep Ripoff
by Craig Maloney <craig@ic.net>
6) Re: LedZep ripoff
by Craig Griffith <tarkus@softhome.net>
7) Directions to Annie's in Cincinnati
by Charlie Patel <patelc@ro.com>
8) Re: Prog? My ass...
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
9) Re: IRC site down?
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
10) Re: Led Zep Ripoff
by belhai <belhai@drew.edu>
11) Re: A disgrace...
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
12) Re: Windows 95 is prejudice :o)
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
13) Re: if you didn't go to the Philly DT show...
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
14) New Address and Phone Number
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
15) Re: New Address and Phone Number
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:42:44 -0400
From: bigtop@voicenet.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Anybody have a full Philly set list?
Message-ID: <v03010d01b17b97589080@[207.103.113.175]>
A friend of mine needs the full Philadelphia set list, solos and quotes
included in their proper places, for his 'zine. If anybody could help me
out, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
-Brian Bernardini
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:47:27 -0400
From: Jon Parmet <jonp@wicked.stigmata.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Message-ID: <199805101747.NAA00452@wicked.stigmata.org>
Subject: General protection fault (Part 1 of 2) VERY VERY LONG!
>From: Seroussi <seroussi@algonet.se>
>Well, no matter how I respond to that you would say I'm an
>asshole. But please, explain why it is so terrible to post
>a private email conversation. I doubt that there's any
>information on the email that neither MP nor me would
>consider extremely private and it does involve the jam in
You assumed! E-mail, BY DEFINITION, is PRIVATE. Period.
Finish. End. If you post, it's PUBLIC. That's why there
is the distinction, so that one may know that when they
want to send something private, they can use e-mail. You
subverted that.
It's quite obvious that you haven't done your homework. It
is a WELL KNOWN FACT that it is just plain disrespectful to
post a PRIVATE e-mail WITHOUT THE AUTHOR'S PERMISSION. It
matter no in the leat whether YOU DECIDE it's too personal
or not. You have betrayed Mike's trust! If I were running
this list, you'd be unsubscribed.
>a way. Anyways, I apologize if I offended anyone by doing
>that, it won't happen again.
Mike TOOK THE TIME to reply to you. Time he could have spent
making all that amazing progressive music, YOU SEEM TO CLAIM
is lacking. As was mentioned earlier, he hasn't even replied
to many other's people e-mail. Surely, he's got many many
e-mails backed up in his queue, yet somehow you got lucky
and were able to even have an ongoing discussion with him.
So what do you do? You yank his chain, because you think you
have the music industry all figured out? Man, perhaps you need
to take a hard look at what it is you actually did. Listen
to what people are saying here. Perhaps you actually did, in
fact, cross the line.
>I never said they're not allowed to do that. I just suggested
>that they don't have to earn more money through music but get
>another job than that, trying to make their music what they want
I'm going to allow you to explain the above, before I jump on it,
because of an occasional language barrier in some of the post. Am I
correct when I read the above to mean that, in your opinion, they
should find other means of employment to earn their money, even if
it means giving up work in the music inducstry, until such time as
their amazing progressive, completely non- commercial, compositions,
are accepted by the music industry (after first passing the
criterion you place on what is considered progressive enough)?
Please read the above very carefully, and I'm here to answer any
questions you have as to what I might mean. I want there to be
no confusion.
It is MY understanding that the members of Dream Theater are
professional musicians. In other words, this is what they do
for a living. Are you suggesting that they do something other
than music during this apparent dark period in the music
industry, until such time as it wakes up? I couldn't tell, but
it seems like you indicated that they there was nothing wrong
with them working hard for a living somewhere else. It almost
seemed as if you were sublty intimating that to produce the
kind of music which was found on FII, didn't require hard work.
Please correct me if I am wrong about that.
In any event, what would you have them do? They are trained to
be musicians. Can you suggest any other profession that they
could just jump right into, TOMORROW, and earn the kind of
money that would put food on the table? Flipping burgers don't
pay the rent, and feed the kid, and buy her diapers, and pay
the insurance, and pay the mortgage, and .....
Ok, they're musicians, fine, let's try to at least keep them
within the industry in which they've made it their life long
desire to remain. Should they go back to playing local bars
where they could make enough money in one week, to barely
feed their families for one night? Just so they don't sacrifice
the holy intregity you seem to feel they have?
>does it say one is not allowed to have a person faced with
>questions considering his method of making a living?
Nowhere! However, THEY exist mainly out in the real world,
where real things like daily living expenses occur :) I'm
curious as to how old you might be. This is not an attempt
to ridicule you for being a child or anything. I'm just
wondering how much of the real world you've had to experience
on your own. Perhaps you have a lot of money and don't have
to worry about things like making it through the day. Not
everyone else is so lucky, though... The musician's life is
not an easy one. These guys have sacrificed quite a bit to
maintain the level of professionalism they continue to
display day in and day out. They deserve RESPECT!
>Ok, so maybe the way I talked to MP was too straightforward,
>disrespectful, etc. But, this is the internet and MP and I were not
Don't pass it off like it was nothing.
>not confronting face to face. Thus, it is harder to show the required
>respect, etc. I tend not to treat people on the net the same as I
No it isn't. The fact that it's the written word doesn't alter the
source of the content. It sounds to me like you just have a problem
showing respect.
>would if I were to talk to them face to face. Maybe I should change
>that, but I can't undo what I have already done.
No you can't change what you've done. You CAN, however change. And
as far as this not being face to face. It matters not one bit. If
you honestly believe that the person on the receiving end of your
e-mail is an actual breathing, living, feeling, human being, then
they deserve the same respect that they do in real life. The fact
they you are not face to face doesn't give you the right to think
you can simply say what you want and NOT HAVE IT AFFECT SOMEONE.
Man, if you ever treated me with disrespect offline, for no apparent
reason other than you weren't getting what you wanted, and I ever
ran into in real life, I'd drop you without a moment's hesitation.
This was Mike Portnoy. MY GOD, what were you thinking? That you
could just shit all over him, because he bummed you out?
>A question to everyone that flamed (I don't mean disagreed with) me:
>Some of you pointed a lack of respect to Mike on my side, wouldn't
>it be appropriate to practice what you preach and show some respect
Ok, I've not jumped in until this point, so I will not address any
other dealings you have had. I will only address the original post
as it relates to you and Mike. I apologize to the rest of you for
being so long winded on this. There are some fundamental issues of
human decency here that are being missed. The next paragraph clearly
shows this...
>for me too? Or maybe I don't deserve any respect because you
>disagreed with me/I didn't show any respect to MP. Anyways, don't
>expect me to be ultimately polite to mike if you can't do the same.
>(gotta love the pigfucker...)
WHAT? Whether anyone else (excluding Mike :) shows you respect or
not has absolutely nothing at all to do with whether you must show
repsect to Mike. Mike didn't show you any disrespect. You have
absolutely no right whatsoever to hold respect for Mike up as
some sort of way to force others into being nice to you. He deserves
respect in and of itself, irrespective of any other interactions you
might have with others. If Mike disrespects you, then you deal with
him on that. I've met Mike several times and I've spoken to enough
people who have met him. I'd say it's a safe bet that he in no way
even came close to disrespecting you. He's a MAN, in the very truest
sense of the word.
>showing our extensive vocabulary. And tell me my original post was
>totally unintereseting, unrelated crap, because it wasn't, otherwise,
>would it have generated that much response on the jam?
What's generating response is your lack of respect. I could care
less about what the content of the e-mail was.
Once again I re-iterate. It doesn't matter whether it's the most
interesting conversation in the history of mankind. You betrayed
the trust! E-mail, BY DEFINITION, is expected to be a private
conversation between two or more people (I exclude the case where
someone sends an e-mail to themself. That person clearly needs to
find a friend or two :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ END PART 1 of 2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Continued, after a short commercial break while our listserver comes up
for air :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:48:01 -0400
From: Jon Parmet <jonp@wicked.stigmata.org>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Message-ID: <199805101748.NAA00457@wicked.stigmata.org>
Subject: General protection fault (Part 2 of 2) VERY LONG!
If you're still with me, don't worry this one's much shorter. It's only
excessively long :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PART 2 of 2 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>I couldn't care less whether you agree with me or not. I just find it
>fun to showcase my opinion and hear others (like that enlightening
>pigfucker, makes you think...)
Showcasing your opinion is one thing. Showing lack of knowledge about
How private conversations are to be held in trust, is what is primarily
causing the reaction from by me.
>jam about that right after MP's last response? No, I have better
>(more important) things to do - I just consider this fun. My
It should be quite clear from the repsonse you got that it wasn't
entirely joyous for quite a number of people. You probably don't
think that matters all that much. It does.
>personality/personal life is not the thing that is disucssed
>here.
Your personal life is EXACLTY what will be discussed when you take it
upon yourself to decide that it's okay to take PERSONAL e-mail and
make it public. It probably doesn't sit to well with you. You kinda
should be able to sense that from the reply you got. It should have
been quite clear that what Mike was saying to you was the way it
is for them. No one on here is that good that they'll come up with
some magical answer that the guy's gonna go "Gee, why didn't I
think of that." They've gone so much farther than many progressive
bands today. And they're still out there. They've been doing it for
quite a while now. Just let them do it. Just let them breathe....
Spleen successfully vented....you may begin refilling process now :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:50:55 -0400
From: "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: ummm
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980510135055.0095a530@maila.wm.edu>
I know, I hate to do this to you all, but...
I went to the FAQ to get the info, and it wasn't there. So, here's my
dumbass question, since I've lost all the original subscriber info (fuck aol):
what is it that you type in the body of the message if you want to change
the email address the 'jam gets sent to?
I'm going HOME FOR THE SUMMER in a few days, and want to start stockpiling
my ytsejams there ... no really, I just don't feel like un-subbing and
re-subbing. Lazy ass me. Thanks!
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:52:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Craig Maloney <craig@ic.net>
To: YtseJam List <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Led Zep Ripoff
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.980510134726.23833A-100000@contraption>
[Begin Quoted]
<<I know this is non-DT related, but it relates to the discussion about
rap singers stealing work from real musicians. I am watching right now
probably the WORST and most DISGRACEFUL performances of a
great song by a rap singer. I am watching SNL and Puff Daddy is totally
RUINING Kashmir by Led Zeppelin. I feel terribly sorry for the millions
of kids around my age being exposed to this catastrophy of a song,
instead of the great original.>>
Well...I haven't heard this one yet, but I did hear a rap "remake"
of Stairway to Heaven... do the original artists actually give
their permission to the rappers to do this? Can't believe it...
Totikus
[END QUOTED]
I can't believe this trend. It was bad enough when I heard Puff Daddy use
Sting/Police songs... and "Stayin' Alive" for "He Got Game", but this
is downright criminal. I don't mind rap, and sometimes I enjoy it, but
this is disgusting. Are Paige/Plant REALLY that hard up for money? Cripes,
if Negativland can't have "I still haven't found what I'm looking for",
then these bozos should deinately not have these songs.
Can't wait for this disgusting trend to die a quick death.
-- | Craig Maloney | "There are no significant bugs in our | | craig@ic.net | released software that any significant | | http://ic.net/~craig | number of users want fixed." -Gates |------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:56:13 -0400 From: Craig Griffith <tarkus@softhome.net> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: LedZep ripoff Message-ID: <3555EA3D.328787E2@softhome.net>
Mr. Totikus wrote:
> <<I know this is non-DT related, but it relates to the discussion about > rap singers stealing work from real musicians. I am watching right now > probably the WORST and most DISGRACEFUL performances of a > great song by a rap singer. I am watching SNL and Puff Daddy is totally > RUINING Kashmir by Led Zeppelin. I feel terribly sorry for the millions > of kids around my age being exposed to this catastrophy of a song, > instead of the great original.>> > Well...I haven't heard this one yet, but I did hear a rap "remake" > of Stairway to Heaven... do the original artists actually give > their permission to the rappers to do this? Can't believe it... > Totikus
Well, there IS an electronica version of "Whole Lotta Love"...probably done a lot better than a rap version of Stairway to Heaven ever could be.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 13:17:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Charlie Patel <patelc@ro.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Directions to Annie's in Cincinnati Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.980510131514.29565A-100000@sh1.ro.com>
Can someone going to the DT show in Cincinnati please give me directions to Annies? I'm coming from Alabama so I don't know my way around the city. PLEASE RESPOND TO patelc@ro.com AS I DO NOT SUBSCRIBE TO YTSEJAM. Thank you!
Charlie Patel
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:28:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Prog? My ass... Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980510142429.12793C-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
I beg to differ on PF not being prog. Pink Floyd not prog? I have to say it out loud. Sorry, guys, they are classified as prog in the anals of music lovers. prog is more than odd times. I have always seen Pink Floyd labeled as prog. I might be wrong, but I have associated them as prog. Styx, the band, to me is prog as well. Journey began as a prog band and went pop, as did Genesis and yes, but The last two were more famous for their prog stuff than Journey was. Rush is prog to the end, but not so much. Tears is just a good pop song, that's all. I would actually consider funeral for a friend to be a proggy song, even though Elton is not a prog star. It is the closest thing he ever got to prog, anyway. And if you listen to achiles last stand, sorry that song is very proggish. Led zep probably experimented with prog along the way. Listen to Cashmier and there is another song that the name ... The ocean. That's it. There. Tori is not prog. sorry. I guess this just goes to show that we will agree or disagree with what is prog and what isn't. The rules are so blurry. Metalica to me was prog in the beginning. Anybody want to debate this?
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:28:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: IRC site down? Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980510142834.12793D-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
use the alternate irc seerver, irc-2.dreamt.org. port 2112.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:32:35 -0500 (EST) From: belhai <belhai@drew.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Led Zep Ripoff Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980510143028.539133171B-100000@drew.edu>
> I can't believe this trend. It was bad enough when I heard Puff Daddy use > Sting/Police songs... and "Stayin' Alive" for "He Got Game", but this > is downright criminal. I don't mind rap, and sometimes I enjoy it, but > this is disgusting.
I don't see what the big problem is in all this. Puff and Page didn't record this and then attempt to sell it to millions. I could understand the complaints if they actually did this, but it was just for SNL, (hopefully) nothing more.
Brandon
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:36:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: A disgrace... Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980510143033.12793E-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
I have to comment on this. When I first heard Puff Daddy, I was furious. That I'll be Missing You song totally pissed me off. Then i saw Sting sing with puff on that song and I thought to myself that he must hate this to no end. Then I read an article in Rolling Stone that Sting didn't particularily mind that his songs were being pillaged by rap artists. However who really knows? If you listen to every puff song around, and I have, because my cousing and youngest brother have no taste, he steals from everybody without shame or even credit half the time. I think it's disgusting that kids think Sting is that guy who sang with Puff Daddy. and that I'll be missing you might actually be, to some uneducated fuck, the original. People might not actually know of Every Breath you Take by the Police. Did you know that Puffy also samples music from Rocky? And now, Led Zeplin. Maybe they shot the wrong rapper? I don't know, it makes me ill. I am waiting for them to start raping Geneiss, Yes, ELP, DT, and Rush. And folks, dance music is no better. You take any hit out today and turn it into a dance song, regardless. That titanic song became a dance number in a month. anything for a hit. That song was actually a beautiful song, and they had to slap a dance fucking beat behind it. Ruined the context, the meaning, and the emotion of the song. I hate dance. I hate rap. The only rap I respect is old school. I remember the days when Run/DMC actually had a guitar player with them and the dude from aerosmith singing on their album. LL cool J still kicks ass. Has anybody ever heard his recent song, the ripper strikes back, where he is tearing into another rapper? He is so funny, I just had to laugh. probably the only rap song I like. Andyway, I digress. Fuck rap. You guys are noncreative losers. Dance music too. Why don't you all just create something instead of recycling riffs? You guys are making alternative music look good? Just because you have no musical talent and no creativity, why can't you guys get another job. Go flip some burgers or something. Wait table. Stop stealing from my favorite music, you fuckers!!! Go take some lessons somewhere and write something intelligent, like I am doing!!!! Fuck you all!!!!!!!!!
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:38:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Windows 95 is prejudice :o) Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980510143753.12793F-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
Don't even fucking try me, you bitch!!! I am on a roll. (read the puffy post0 for details.)
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
On Sat, 9 May 1998, TheCowGod wrote:
> > >tries, I am not a nice guy when flamed. Ask some of the ytsevets about the > >f sharp incident. :) > > you stupid ass, it's not f sharp, it's F#. And you call yourself a > musician. :) > > -- > > "I lost my vision in a tragic gambling accident." > -- Mike Portnoy, "A Change of Seasons" > > Dan McCormack > dmc@dreamt.org > http://premium.caribe.net/~emc/ > >
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 14:44:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: if you didn't go to the Philly DT show... Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980510144147.12793H-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. I hate you bastards. I fucking hate you!!!! I begged. I pleaded. I got on my knees for you. All I asked for is a ride. A RIDE!!!! Is that a lot? And of course, the one DT show I miss has to kick this much ass? Why? Why are you all so cold? This isn't fair. It's bad enough that I have to be the only DT fan in my area. It's bad enough that the one person I could get to go to a DT show hates standing for that long, and the other person is my X girlfriend. I would have loved to just go to a DT show with a group of DT fans, maybe some I had spoken to on the Jam or on IRC. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! nobody could give two shits about me. why? Blind guys scare you? Afraid that I would have too many beers at the show? Afraid that I wouldn't want to stay afterwords to meet the band? Thanks for nothing guys. I thought you were all my friends. <cry, sob, weep>
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:19:38 -0400 From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: undisclosed-recipients:; Subject: New Address and Phone Number Message-ID: <199805101919.PAA17680@daffy.cs.wm.edu>
------- Blind-Carbon-Copy
To: cmerlo Subject: New Address and Phone Number Reply-To: cmerlo@cs.wm.edu X-URL: http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/ Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:19:38 -0400 ]From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@daffy>
Hi folks. Effective Friday, May 22, 1998, my new address will be:
Christopher R. Merlo 516 Newport Ave. Williamsburg, VA 23185
and the phone number will be (757) 259-0814.
My e-mail addresses (cmerlo@cs.wm.edu, d-man@dreamt.org) will stay the same.
- -c
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------- End of Blind-Carbon-Copy
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 15:30:25 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: New Address and Phone Number Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980510153014.16636A-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
hey, D. Why would anybody want to call your ass anyway? :)
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3873 **************************
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