YTSEJAM Digest 3866
Today's Topics:
1) Tony Levin
by Gary Davis <artshop@artist-shop.com>
2) What merchandise is for sale
by Yvette Cooley <beanvet@accessus.net>
3) re: Selling-out
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
4) next album
by Chris Daley <cdaley@gmu.edu>
5) Re: Derek
by PhReEkY dEeK <lerxst@wam.umd.edu>
6) Re: Yes/Union and Steve Howe/Turbulence
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
7) Relativity
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
8) Derek Sherinian -- Nice Guy?
by "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com>
9) What the fuck?!
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
10) Disappointed
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
11) Re: playin with that organ....
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
12) Derek; Seroussi
by YtseJim <YtseJim@DreamT.org>
13) Re: Sorry NDTC...Journey News
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
14) Re: Derek
by Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
15) Re: Sorry NDTC...Journey News
by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
16) How I got into DT
by Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 18:02:42 -0400
From: Gary Davis <artshop@artist-shop.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Tony Levin
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980508220242.00ed6690@artist-shop.com>
For those of you who love Tony Levin's work in LTE, it might interest you to
know that I've recently put up a new Tony Levin/Papabear page in The Artist
Shop at <http://www.artist-shop.com/papabear> complete with graphics and
soundbites. Definitely well worth your investigation.
Gary
**************************************************************
Gary Davis
The Artist Shop The Other Road
http://www.artist-shop.com artshop@artist-shop.com
phone: 330-929-2056 fax:330-945-4923
SUPPORT THE INDEPENDENT ARTIST!!!
**************************************************************
Check out the latest Artist Shop newsletter at
http://www.artist-shop.com/news.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:36:53 -0500
From: Yvette Cooley <beanvet@accessus.net>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: What merchandise is for sale
Message-ID: <01BD7AA7.E4B77F80@mtv-i-1-109.accessus.net>
Anybody out there that has been to a recent DT show, tell me what kind =
of merchandise is for sale? I'm getting ready to go to the Chicago show, =
and need to know what kind of money I need to take.
James
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 15:15:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re: Selling-out
Message-ID: <19980508221529.11568.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
On this thread of selling out...
Whether or not an artist makes money always seems to be a combination
of luck and marketing.
Many artists have been able to state that they do exactly what they
want, and never compromised in any way. (Led Zeppelin, REM, etc.) But
this is where the luck comes in. Led Zep did exactly what they wanted
because they had a huge fan base, and played a style of music which
was very popular at the time. They were in a position to demand
anything from the record company, and they did. The timing was right
for them, and they could do whatever they wanted.
On the other hand, marketing can create a band also. (Spice Girls,
etc.) The record company just looks at the current trends, and tries
to make money with it. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Look
at how they're currently pushing "The Verve" and "Ben Folds Five". The
record companies are throwing millions behind these guys, and they
will probably get their money back, but they most likely won't create
long lasting music (or artists). It's very likely that no one will
know who these guys are in 2 years.
Unfortunately for DT, neither of these factors is in their favor. They
are not playing a currently popular form of music, and the record
companies are not pushing for them. (Of course the record company
won't, because DT does not fit into their current marketing trends.)
The thing that DT has in their favor is that they have been creating
high-quality music, that people WILL remember for a long time. As far
as breaking out in the market and making mega-bucks, I think that the
cards are stacked heavily against them...
But of course, that's just MHO.
BH
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 18:38:21 -0400
From: Chris Daley <cdaley@gmu.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: next album
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980508183818.007f4100@mason.gmu.edu>
I don't know if this has already been posted...so I apologize beforehand.
But, around 3:00pm on 5/5 (the night of the daytona show), I was listening
to 98rock, and Derek S. called up talking about FII and about how they were
looking forward to the show that evening. He talked about how FII is a
mixture of progressive and commerical songs and he also mentioned that for
the next album they might be going back to their more progressive roots...
I thought that's pretty interesting... what's also interesting was that
they were playing LTE in the background...
then they played You Not Me... i'm pleased to hear DT on the radio...no
matter what song it is. cya
Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 18:47:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: PhReEkY dEeK <lerxst@wam.umd.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Derek
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95q.980508183954.9822B-100000@rac2.wam.umd.edu>
]From out of the shadows Beyond the Mirror whispered:
>could go into detail if you want.) As a keyboard player myself, who
>admires Derek's playing, I was quite disappointed.
yeah, me too. why doesn't he use more analog!!??
but seriously, my story is similar to others'. i met him at hammers in
b-more during the awake tour. at that point, it was something like his
4th show with them. after the show, he came out about 1 1/2 hours before
everyone else and just hung out and talked with all of us. he was
extremely cool, and was apparently _really_ amped to be in DT. he talked
about having to learn the songs on the tour bus, and expressed his
concerns about "that metropolis song".
this time, he basically blew everyone off who tried to talk to him. the
road case that holds all his axes has a sticker on the side that says
"a big case for a big dick" and the crew told me that's no joke.
i guess success affects different people in different ways.
- il
-- Trek|RockShox|Shimano|Continental|Specialized|White Bros.
/\/ \ /\ /\
/\/ \/\ \/\/ __o / \/\/
/\ / / / \/ / _'\<,_ / \/
/ ..... \ .. (*)/'(*).. ..
-- Pakkrat studio site: http://www.ee.umd.edu/~lerxst/pakkrat "serving your synthesis needs"------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 19:05:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Yes/Union and Steve Howe/Turbulence Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980508190510.10705A-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
D, not only does Turbulence and Union share the riff from silent talking, but I would've waited forever, off of union has a shared riff with Turbulence as well.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:01:08 -0700 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Relativity Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980508170108.00687a38@pop.cfmc.com>
>From: ujonegr@psf220.lexis-nexis.com (Greg Jones) >Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3859 >Message-ID: <199805081119.HAA04764@psf220.pclprod.meaddata.com> > > > > > > But I'm not a believer in cultural > > > relativism, nor am I a believer in musical relativism. > > Cultural relativism is a moral position that is difficult to > defend because of inconsistencies in communication, values, and it's > counter-intuitive conclusions. There are moral implications... it's > a moral system. Musical relativism is not, and doesn't suffer from > the same problems. It think (and I am quite possibly wrong) that it > is counter-intuitive NOT to support some form of musical relativism.
Ethics is a study of (right) action in a social universe. Cultural relativism, strictly speaking, strips a variance of value from cultural systems which have ethical components. Ethics, because it's grounded in more palpable action, is less abstract than music, which exists in the artistic universe, which is extremely abstract...both cognitively and affectively. Music exists in the context of an artistic universe...there are, as in ethics, a number of actors providing lenses through which to view the subject, but they actually exist in the same universe. When you say that it's counter-intuitive not to support some form of musical relativism, you're partially correct, I'd say. With a heavy emphasis on the "some."
>You bring up some valid points that I tend to agree with. I'm a >Christian so I definitely believe in absolutes but I have what I >consider to be a unique perspective on the subject. > >The reason that I believe that morals are *absolute* is because my >morality is *relative* to God and my God is *absolute*.
There you go. I'm actually an Agnostic, but what I'm saying is that the music exists in a universe that is absolute. Whether it stems from the hand of God or some other source, what you're saying is something I believe in...that there is an existence of absolutes. Strictly speaking, I'm a pragmatist, but I'm a hard pragmatist.
>Tying this in to music, let me play devil's advocate. Could a DT fan, >objectively criticize "Hootie and the Blowfish" upon the basis that >their music is too simple? And couldn't this allegation be objectively >proven? Now this doesn't mean that someone is ignorant if they like >"Hootie" for they may agree that Hootie is simple music but respond >that they don't want to listen to complex music. The simple music of >Hootie moves them more than DT's complexity.
Basically, I think there's a bifurcation that isn't being fully addressed here. The ability of a piece of music to resonate with someone and MEAN something to someone is, in fact, variable. You use the example of two bands who construct their music differently (I actually like both of them) and question whether a fan of one and not the other can provide meaningful criticism.
Let me start by saying that I don't doubt the ability of a piece of music...ANY piece of music...to resonate meaningfully with someone. The 13 year old girls who are swooning at Hanson are experiencing something supremely meaningful to them. When I say that Coltrane is sublime, I'm experiencing slightly different emotional content, but I'm not sure that I'm necessarily feeling anything MORE than the 13 year old girl.
There are reasons that we respond to music in these different ways. People who listen to various types of music congregate in similar circles oftentimes. The people on this mailing list, for all the arguing and hemming and hawing and yelling and screaming we do, have quite a lot in common, generally speaking. These reasons are actually pretty firm...I tend to get along very well, for the most part, with Rush fans. I get along less well with people who're really into Bell Biv Devoe.
There's a structure of value that exists that isn't simply a question of "I like loud guitars" or "I like complex music" or "I like lyrics about hummingbards." Those pieces may be part of a puzzle, but the whole of that information, which has some profound emotional and intellectual roots, shapes what we listen to and why we like what we do. As I was saying with Ernesto, we know a lot about what music means -- the way it communicates to us, the way we listen to music, its abstract nature -- and, with that knowledge in mind, I'm more than willing to make value judgements about musical content. Rick Audet has great taste in music, but he also like Depeche Mode, who I detest (I guess everyone's wrong once in a while...heh...). There's something in the gestalt of how he approaches the world that makes that sonic information appeal to him and revolt me.
>The person's reaction to the music is subjective, but objective >criticisms can be made. Who would argue against the notion that it's >easier to dance to rap than to DT? Most rappers who dislike metal do so >because they want music to dance to. Most of us in this newsgroup like >DT because we want to hear music that is complex, unique, creative, and >different.
This is correct. The only thing I'd want to clarify is that the subjectivity you're speaking of is rooted in the myriad ways in which we develop. Why someone likes a kind of music isn't a crapshoot...it's a semi-predictable function of the content of their mind. You give relatively easily identifiable, concrete examples of the objective side of musical criticism (while slyly kissing the ass of everyone on the list)...what I'd add is that feminist musicians often take the "angry folk-singer with a guitar" (Ani DiFranco, maybe, going here...though she's got a healthy dose of Penelope Houston-style Punk going, too) because of the history of the guitar (generally acoustic) as medium...it's chordal, provides counter-melody, but is a traditional music vehicle of the marginalized. It's not just a music theory issue, but a musicological, as well.
>I guess I'm merely saying that there appears to be an overlap between >the subjective and the objective.
I'm more comfortable with the word "interaction" than "overlap," but I think you make good points here.
Five Gratuitous CD's: ===================== 1. Iron Maiden: Iron Maiden 2. Genesis: Invisible Touch 3. Enchant: Wounded 4. Rush: A Farewell to Kings 5. GTR: GTR
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com http://www.cfmc.com/adamb
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 17:02:52 -0800 From: "Paul Gregory Humm" <humm@levy.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Derek Sherinian -- Nice Guy? Message-ID: <199805090003.RAA22789@baygate.bayarea.net>
> I'd like to know if Derek has a bad reputation in general or if we just > caught him on a bad day - so I'm asking Jammers to contribute their > personal Derek stories - the good :-) the bad :-( and the ugly :-o > (Well, not TOO personal of course.)
I met Derek after the Palo Alto, CA show last November. He was very cool, and gladly signed my copy of FII. He was letting people take pictures with him, talking to everyone, etc. When I saw him, I could tell he was in a bit of a hurry to get on the bus, but by that point he had spent at least 15-20 minutes (probably more) talking to fans, both inside the venue and outside by the bus. My impression was that he is a really nice guy.
Paul
----------- Paul Humm humm@levy.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 17:19:51 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: What the fuck?! Message-ID: <3553A127.63485E46@imap1.asu.edu>
Well, good move Serioussi. What's your next prank gonna be?
The logic you were pushing against Mike's whole LIFE made me think that, as you believe it, any artist who so desires to make a LIVING (which guess what....REQUIRES MONEY!!!) off of their art is a sell-out artist with no integrity. I don't think you have the littlest sense of what it takes to survive as a professional artist in this world; ask any one of the artists working today who work on their own agenda, and every one of them will tell you it's one of the _MOST demanding_ career choices in the world, but they love every minute of it.
That is why people choose to live off of their art.
And who's to say that DT has sold out in the first place? There are some oddball songs on FII that just don't sit well for me, but that's just because of a personal bias towards the balls and chunk part of DT. I'm not gonna sit here and shove the wonders and greatness of FII up anybody's ass, but I ask that you do show at least a little RESPECT towards anybody who is succeeding at making a living off of their own artwork, like DT are.
~Eckie just can't believe that shit
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:30:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Dream Theater Mailing list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Disappointed Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980508202759.10705D-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
I am very disappointed that I couldn't get out to see DT at birch hill or irving plaza, mostly because I had not ride. Come on, guys. I thought you all were my friends here. I begged and pleaded and got no help, maybe one email message from somebody who wasn't even sure if he or she was going. Suckage to the extreme. Well, I don't suppose that anybody from the Northern Jersey or Central Jersey area is going to see DT in Phillie tomorrow night and wouldn't mind picking up somebody along the way, would they? No, I don't have a ticket, but I have the money for one. If you want to help a blind DT fan out, email me or find me on irc tonight.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 20:42:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: playin with that organ.... Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980508204059.10705F-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
I thought Derek was using a Korg vk7/xb3 wannabe. Is he using real leslies or a simulator. And he has three trinities? Fuck him. I hate him. I have one xp50 and I want more. BTW, anybody who loves keys like I do, check out yamaha's new beast. Gives the trinity a run. And if Derek wants to pass off his XB3, I will gladly take it from him without a questin.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 20:52:17 -0400 From: YtseJim <YtseJim@DreamT.org> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Derek; Seroussi Message-ID: <3553A8C1.155E78EC@DreamT.org>
> I'd like to know if Derek has a bad reputation in general or if we just > caught him on a bad day - so I'm asking Jammers to contribute their > personal Derek stories
Well, i met the band after the NYC show last year, and from my conversation with derek, he seemed pretty damn cool to me....I brought up his work with Alice Cooper, and we started chatting for a minute or so about that...but he stayed and signed everyone's stuff. From what i understand from your story, you were talkin about before the show...well, maybe he was concentrating on that night's performance or, like you said, was just havin a bad day...
anyway, What the hell is up with this Seroussi guy...Mike doesn't have to explain a f*cking thing to you pal....You don't tell someone to change their music style because you like it better that way...what gives you the right to say that someone's ideas don't fit with yours so they should change them....Make your own damn music! Don't buy anymore Dream Theater albums! and please, Keep your thoughts and ideas locked inside of your head! thank you,
~YtseJim
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:03:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Sorry NDTC...Journey News Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980508210237.10705G-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
OK, now I am confused. Steve Perry is not in Journey anymore? Why? I can understand why Steve Smith left. Hell, I have been awaiting a Journey tour since Trial by Fire came out. why no tour? What is up with steve Perry? And who are all these people coming into Journey and how will they affect the band? Does anybody believe that Journey can continue without Perry? Can this new guy hit those notes?
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 May 1998 21:13:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: Derek Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.95.980508211101.10705H-100000@shell.monmouth.com>
I interviewed Derek for my prog radio show in December of 1996. My initial impression of him was that of a guy who was kind of cocky. He was coureteous to me, but I sensed that it was because he had to be. Then, during the interview, he discovered that I was blind and the entire tone changed. After the show, derek came out and while milling around, he asked me if I needed anything. and he asked me how I was doing. He seemed genuinely concerned. I think I may have freaked him out just a bit. James Labrie was the same way. I had my cane with me, which is a dead sign of handicappedness, and James asked if I was OK. I don't remember what else he said to me, I was brutally whooped after the show from all the music.
-- Damon Fibraio, damon@monmouth.com Keyboardist, Vocalist, musical slut "One likes to believe in the freedom of music But glittering prizes and endless compromises shatter the illusion of integrity."--Rush, 1980
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 21:25:25 -0400 From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Sorry NDTC...Journey News Message-ID: <199805090125.VAA08383@al.cs.wm.edu>
Damon inquired:
> the band? Does anybody believe that Journey can continue without Perry? > Can this new guy hit those notes?
Yeah, he won't have any problems. Steve Augeri used to sing for a band called Tall Stories. A friend of mine (*huge* Journey fan) was working in a record store around '91 or '92 when someone returned their disc. He popped it in to listen and was immediately hooked. He played it for me that day, and I also instantly loved it. In retrospect, it's very Journey-ish, in the melodies and song writing (although their guitarist is no Schon, and their drummer no Smith).
We got a chance to see them open for Mr. Big on their Lean Into It tour, and they put on quite a show. My friend and I seemed to be the only two that had ever even heard of them. When two dopey kids in the front row are the only two singing along to your set, I guess you'll pay them some extra attention, so we enjoyed ourselves, and kind of felt an "in" with the band. Steve's voice is top notch. As a matter of fact, the whole album really is good. It's a shame they never got anywhere, because I thought they deserved to. Oh, well.
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 May 1998 18:31:22 -0700 From: Eckie <eckie@imap1.asu.edu> To: Ytse Jam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: How I got into DT Message-ID: <3553B1EA.D5DE8F7A@imap1.asu.edu>
It was a sunny day in Calcutta, I was sipping on a dry martini with my Ibanez RG-450 sitting in my lap, plugged into the trusty ol' Amp of the Eckie, the Crate GX-20M. The sun was getting really bright that day, almost too bright for my pale complexion, but that didn't matter; burned-skin looked cool on a metalhead guitarist.
Why I was in Calcutta I'll never know. Why I was sitting on the patio of an upscale coffee house wearing nothing but black in the middle of a summer's day I'll never understand either. But life was good back then.
So good that it prompted me to write a song. I turned on the Crate and hit the gray overdrive button, and stretched my left hand into a carpet of filanges across the fingerboard, sweeping to the top, sliding to the left, and cutting down the middle! After warming up, I proceeded to hit a heavy power chord over and over and over and over and....
I felt somebody bashing the table against my right elbow. I looked over and there was this long haired gentleman with a hooked schnowzer, he almost looked like a character out of Jim Henson's muppet creations, banging his forehead against the tabletop along with the simple rythm I had just started playing on my guitar.
"Hey dude, you okay? You just spilled my martini." "Hey man, do some more...I have an idea..."
"Okay," I said as I started ripping out with some funky scratching noises against the strings and he started using his hands to hold the table steady as he continued headbanging the tabeltop surface. Soon a piano started playing in the background. He played an extra beat here and there, but after a few measures, it sounded awesome!
"Hey man, let's form a band!"
So we continued jamming at this little coffee shop in Calcutta, summoning many a people. At one point we both feared for our lives as a large pinball of a man leaped from the crowd and bounced off of a waiter's head, flinging cigarette sparks in every possible direction.
So a year flew by with just the two of us, Mike and me, playing that same polyrythmic groove wherever we went. Then we hit Jersey, where this institute of music happened to be located. Mike went to school there while I stayed in an abandoned warehouse with a computer and a modem, becoming addicted to the internet as my shredding abilities faded away without any practice. Mike would want to play music, and I would want to play Quake online, and we both went our ways.
So he found these 4 hacks and they started some band together. It made me insanely jealous, so I constructed my own time-travelling telephone booth, and went back into time, back to when I bought that damned computer and phone line, and I slapped young Eckie into place, taking his money and used it to pay for his tuition at Berklee. Because of my space-time continuem shattering actions I was zapped into a coma and woke up starving, depressed, and lonely, in a little cave called a "dorm room" with my guitar laying on the floor next to me.
A sudden knock at the door called me off the floor, and when I answered it, Mike, Kevin, James, and John were waiting for me to pack my gear into the truck for the first Majesty gig!
The gig would've been great had there not been another Berklee guitar student playing Prince covers that night before our set.....
~Eckie didn't say it was gonna be believable
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3866 **************************
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