YTSEJAM digest 3886

From: ytsejam@ax.com
Date: Tue May 12 1998 - 16:31:38 EDT

  • Next message: ytsejam@ax.com: "YTSEJAM digest 3887"

                                YTSEJAM Digest 3886

    Today's Topics:

      1) Raining on Peruvian Skies
     by K I L L M A R Y <caschulze@mindspring.com>
      2) 5's gone. there is no 5.
     by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
      3) Re: Philly Review - Lengthy
     by KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
      4) Dump...
     by "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
      5) If it must be known...
     by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
      6) Re: New Address and Phone Number
     by The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
      7) Re: rap... & therapy
     by "Presley" <elvis@som.com>
      8) Selling out... the real news...
     by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
      9) Re: New Address and Phone Number
     by belhai <belhai@drew.edu>
     10) Drist, Dio
     by Rick Audet <Ytse@concentric.net>
     11) Re: YTSEJAM digest 3869
     by Rob Jurado <Jurado@worldnet.att.net>
     12) Re: radmax
     by "earthblind, starbound" <afn39111@afn.org>
     13) Best concert experience
     by Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com>
     14) MP3 to Wav
     by "Rafaloff, Ryan " <Bimmered@mjet.com>
     15) Re: Muff Daddy and Celine Dion
     by Rob Jurado <Jurado@worldnet.att.net>
     16) Re: Rap lyrics
     by Rob Jurado <Jurado@worldnet.att.net>

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:56:32 -0400 (EDT)
    From: K I L L M A R Y <caschulze@mindspring.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Raining on Peruvian Skies
    Message-ID: <199805121656.MAA18791@dewdrop2.mindspring.com>

    mpm_2112 (Matt) sez......
    >Yeah, how come you say PS is not prog when

    Ummmmm I hate labeling stuff, but to me it's a pretty straight-forward metal
    song.

    >1. It sounds very Floydish (well the first half anyway, and the guitar solo)

    Yup, it sure does, and Floyd does have some slow straight-forward stuff.

    >2. Portnoy said in an interveiw that PS is the most true DT sounding song
    on thw whole album

    That's what made me actually post... I sure hope this doesn't mean that
    whatever DT comes up from now on is gonna sound like Peruvian Skies. I
    always thought that it's a cute song, but that LitS, NM and ToT are a much
    better example of where they're heading... at least that's what I hoped for,
    and still do...

    Christian.
                              ____ ____ ____
           /\ /\ /\/\ /\ / / /\/ /\/ /\\ /\
          /__/ / / \/ \__/ / / /___/ /___/ \\/ \____
         /\ \ / / / \/ / / / / /\ \ // \ /
        / \ / / / / / / / / \___\// / /
       / / / /__ /__ / / / / / /\ / / /
       \ \ \ \ \\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ / /
        \___\_\_\__\\__\__\___\_\___\_\___\_\__\__/ /
         \_________________________________________/
            None of us is as strong as all of us.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:57:03 -0400
    From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: 5's gone. there is no 5.
    Message-ID: <199805121657.MAA32510@daffy.cs.wm.edu>

    Craig Griffith **finally** got the answer to this one. Change all the 5s to
    "Markinson" and you get the following quote:

    "Markinson's gone. There is no Markinson."

    Spoken, of course, by the ubiquitous Kevin Bacon in A Few Good Men. Johhny,
    show 'em what Craig won.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
      cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
      d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
      http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
                        http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:08:30 EDT
    From: KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Philly Review - Lengthy
    Message-ID: <b1550bc.3558820f@aol.com>

    In a message dated 98-05-12 12:45:43 EDT, Adam Pye wrote:

    << Full on the Mouth opened, and ordinarily that's all I'd say about
     this virtually talentless band, but something bothered me during their set.
      People were _really_ giving them a hard time and while the lead singer DID
     look strikingly like Sammy Hagar, all the ragging and yelling were totally
     unnecessary. People were making fun of their music and calling them names
     with them right there on the stage, and you could tell the singer was
     bothered a bit by it. It was funny for a minute, but Jesus, these guys are
     up there playing as well as they can and doing what alot of people in the
     crowd did was simply immature and childish. Paul Cashman brought up a
     great point during trip. He mentioned that DT might get some of the same
     treatment at the DP/ELP tour shows - and he's right. I don't give a damn
     how much you don't like a band. When they're up there doing the best they
     can leave them alone - ie, grow the fuck up. </rant> >>

    Isn't this what you would expect from the city whose football fans beat up
    Santa Claus? Yes, it happened at a football game some years ago. No offense
    to all you Philly 'jammers, 'cause I know this wasn't YOU, but a lot of Philly
    fans(football, anyway) are the biggest a-holes I've ever dealt with. I'll
    never attend another Eagles game. Please don't flame me, 'cause I'm talking
    about someone else, not you. :~)

    Anyway, I agree with Adam here, and I hope that there were no 'jammers
    involved. Let's try to show some class to these guys, even if you don't like
    their music. I met with them after the show at Daytona's(after they TOTALLY
    kissed MP's ass), and they were all very cool guys. Just big fans of OFB,
    like the rest of us. Just be cool, and observe the gilded rule.

    Learning to rhyme,
    Kez

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:09:36 -0400
    From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
    To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Dump...
    Message-ID: <413835162AC9CF11AE9602070116CC5E790553@amsc.belvoir.army.mil>

    > << In my own fucking car (if
    > I'm with my girlfriend) she bitches at me to "turn this fucking shit
    > off" (DT)! >>
    >
    > DUMP HER! DUMP HER! DUMP HER! That relationship is doomed.
    > Get her outta'
    > here.
    >
    > You'll thank me for this one day.

    Heh - Kez, relationship councilor. :) I've had this problem before, and I
    found that Kez's solution, while drastic, was certainly effective...

    Mike
    Division - With King Diamond, Thursday. With Savatage, June 19th. With luck,
    I'll hook up with a girl that likes metal - now that I'm single again...

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:23:52 -0700 (PDT)
    From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: If it must be known...
    Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980512102309.14516A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>

    http://www.theonion.com/onion3306/last2samples.html

    You'll find all the depressing info there.

    --Matt

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Deep Impact": Something that movie didn't have on me...
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:27:25 -0400
    From: The Digital Man <cmerlo@CS.WM.EDU>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: New Address and Phone Number
    Message-ID: <199805121727.NAA32622@daffy.cs.wm.edu>

    Damon shared with us:

    > that's it, all you sighted fucks. You thougt D's post was funny? Have your
    > eyes feast on this for a while. Ascii art from a blind guy!!!!!
    >
    > :
    > : :
    > _______________________
    > \\\\\\\\\\\\
    > :';"+_

    Oh, cool, a sailboat.

    D-Man spouts off yet another movie reference.

      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough
      cmerlo@cs.wm.edu "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates
      d-man@dreamt.org /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed
      http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The Spirit of Radio" Saturday 2:00pm-4:00pm 90.7 WCWM-FM
                        http://www.cs.wm.edu/~cmerlo/tsor

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:27:24 -0500
    From: "Presley" <elvis@som.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: rap... & therapy
    Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980512172724.008d83a0@mail.som.com>

    I confess!! I happen to like some rap - Dr. Dre, Rakim, LL. Although If I
    hear Puff Daddy & Mace one more time I'll take out my nine and bust a cap.
    - I'm a drummer & also a dance DJ (yeah the 2 turntables\mixer deal) so I've
    learned to like it. But anyway there's a time for rap, and that's not
    always. People who listen to nothing but it don't know anything about
    music, so don't let the get to you. What you need to do is ignore them or
    quickly change the topic. Talk about sports or something. And if you're in
    the "your car" and the passengers don't want to hear your music, say tough
    or kick them out. Even if it's your girlfriend, there needs to be some
    compromise here, sonny.

    I say music is in your heart and for those of us who understand real music,
    that's where it should stay. There's a lot of music I listen to that I
    wouldn't dare or care to play around friends. I've noticed once you play
    or bring music into the conversation it turns into a fight. They'll either
    make fun of it or trash it. Some of what we listen to is personal, and for
    people not to like it or make fun of it can hurt. Its like we play music
    for these assholes & bitches for approval - WHY??
    So I say - just be smart and keep to yourself, it's their loss.

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:39:00 -0700 (PDT)
    From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Selling out... the real news...
    Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980512103806.14516C-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>

    http://www.theonion.com/onion3203/mcdonaldsellout.html

    Sad... truly sad... (sniff)

    --Matt (be sure to turn on your sarcasm detectors)

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Deep Impact": Something that movie didn't have on me...
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 13:44:09 -0500 (EST)
    From: belhai <belhai@drew.edu>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: New Address and Phone Number
    Message-ID: <Pine.PMDF.3.95.980512134311.539145411B-100000@drew.edu>

    On Tue, 12 May 1998, The Digital Man wrote:

    > Oh, cool, a sailboat.

    "Shut up!"

       - Mall Rats

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:01:22 -0400 (EDT)
    From: Rick Audet <Ytse@concentric.net>
    To: YtseJelly <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Drist, Dio
    Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980512134821.11275B-100000@mariner.cris.com>

    San Francisco Bay Area Jammers,

    A friend of mine plays in a band called Drist, based in Foster City, CA.
    They have a gig at The Edge in Palo Alto on Thursday, May 21. Check out
    their page at

    http://home.earthlink.net/~suemay/main.html

    and if they appeal to you maybe I'll see you at the show. I'll surely be
    there.

    Anyone going to see Ronnie James Dio the following night at Maritime Hall
    in San Francisco ? That oughtta be hoot.

    Now Playing: Photek, "Modus Operandi"

    Rick Audet
    San Francisco

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 11:07:15 -0700
    From: Rob Jurado <Jurado@worldnet.att.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 3869
    Message-ID: <35588FD3.76401DFD@worldnet.att.net>

    ytsejam@ax.com wrote:

    > YTSEJAM Digest 3869
    > Date: Sat, 9 May 1998 15:28:02 -0400
    > From: "Kurt Kober" <phobos@net-lynx.com>
    > Subject: LTE vs. FII
    >
    > But time has passed, and while listening to LTE for the first time was
    > amazing, the novelty seems to have worn off. On the other hand, I find
    > myself liking Falling Into Infinity more each time I listen to it.

    I myself am thinking the same thing about FII. I love the album. I'm even
    starting to like the much-maligned YNM.

    > (Just as an aside, do you think DT ever gets tired of hearing how
    > frikkin great I&W is?)
    >

    That's a great point. I'm sure that I&W must be getting kind of old forOFB. They've got to be
    thinking, "Oh geez...enough with the cries for
    Metropolis, Part II. We have other stuff we'd like to play for you
    instead of treading over the same old ground." Personally, I'd
    like to see what else they have up their sleeves. I love to see
    an artist evolve. I'd be pretty bored with Sting, Pink Floyd, U2,
    the Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Soundgarden if they'd kept doing
    "Outlandos D'amour", "Atom Heart Mother", "War", "Freaky Styley",
    and "Louder than Love", respectively. IOW, if they kept doing their
    early albums, I'd just get sick of them. In some of those cases, I
    wouldn't have ever liked them. I don't really like pre-Meddle
    Floyd, pre-War U2, and pre-Badmotorfinger Soundgarden. Call me
    a moron, but I just like what I like. Go ahead, y'all have what y'all
    are going to have. I'll have these. :)

    > I'd go so far as to say some of DT's best stuff ever is right there on
    > Falling Into Infinity. The songs on FII are more personal, better written,
    > and more well-produced. Each one is a little finished product, polished and
    > refined, whereas LTE strikes me as a collection of jam sessions. Brilliant,
    > nifty-as-hell jam sessions, but not very deep. IMO (ATS). In that regard, I
    > don't even know if the two albums can be compared fairly.
    >

    I agree that it's not the best comparison to make. the genesis of LTE wasmore jam-oriented than
    FII. Also, it's been described by MP as a one-week
    collaboration. It's just musicians playing whatever comes off the top of
    their minds. FII is, I assume, more of an effort to write SONGS. JP has
    said that in the past they'd take a good song idea and screw it up.
    I was just trying to take the pulse of the ytsejam. For the past few months,
    few CDs have displaced FII from my CD player. Most that have
    booted FII were subsequently replaced by FII, even other DT efforts, but
    "Scarred" seems to help Awake crawl back in more than any other CDs.
    Billie Holiday, John Coltrane, and So-So Def Bass All-Stars (yes, I know,
    that's kind of un-jammer to listen to something like that) seem to
    make occasional returns, but no CD has equalled FII since I got it.
    LTE is great, but I'm sure FII is just kind of taking a break from my CD
    player. It will be back, probably pretty soon too.

    > And as for Jordan Rudess, yes, he's a great keyboardist, as evinced by LTE.
    > But hearing that album, I have to say I'm glad Dream Theater went with
    > Derek. He seems to have a bit more of a distinctive style. Rudess struck me
    > as having graduated from the Jens Johanssen/Tony Macalpine Institute of
    > Keyshredding.
    >

    I like DS. Again, I was just taking the pulse of the jam. With FII and ACOSas the only info I have
    on DS, I think he's pretty damn good. The band dynamic
    with him there produces some stuff that I love. I have no complaints about DS.
    As far as I'm concerned, he kick ass. On Monday, I'll get to see him shake his
    own ass, I imagine.

    -Rob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 14:33:35 -0400 (EDT)
    From: "earthblind, starbound" <afn39111@afn.org>
    To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    Subject: Re: radmax
    Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.95.980512143006.181579A-100000@freenet2.afn.org>

    > How much of my drive space is going to be taken up by off subject ramblings
    > like the above? I work 14 hour days, and barely have time to read through

    Winner, SRPOTW.

    (that's self-referential post of the week. i got it from captain nitpick,
    who is generally an annoying guy, but has a point when people post "Could
    people please only post jokes?" on rec.humor.)

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 15:31:33 -0400
    From: Chris Dixon <cdixon@isminternet.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Best concert experience
    Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980512153133.0097e7a0@mail.isminternet.com>

    There are only 3 more days to vote for your best concert experience on
    Prog-Net's latest survey. Besides looking for the most commonly listed
    band or show, I am curious to see which show makes me the most jealous. DT
    with echolyn opening comes to mind...

    Prog-Net is: http://www.isminternet.com/prognet/
    "Reviews and opinions about Progressive Music"

    Thanks,

    Chris

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 98 15:45:06 EST5EDT
    From: "Rafaloff, Ryan " <Bimmered@mjet.com>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: MP3 to Wav
    Message-ID: <199805121945.MAA23144@odin.ax.com>

    Greetings,

    Can anyone recommend a reliable Win95 utility to convert
    MP3's to Wav format. Anything besides Wave Convert?

    Thanks,

    -Raf-

    ==================================
    "Sometimes, the anguish we survive,
    And the mysteries we nurture,
    Are the fabrics of our lives..."
    Lines in the Sand - Dream Theater
    ==================================

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:45:05 -0700
    From: Rob Jurado <Jurado@worldnet.att.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Muff Daddy and Celine Dion
    Message-ID: <3558A6C1.C40B01BE@worldnet.att.net>

    >

    Okay. Time to cast some stones at Puff Daddy.

    > From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
    > To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    > Subject: Re: A disgrace...
    >
    > I have to comment on this. When I first heard Puff Daddy, I was furious.
    > That I'll be Missing You song totally pissed me off. Then i saw Sting sing
    > with puff on that song and I thought to myself that he must hate this to
    > no end. Then I read an article in Rolling Stone that Sting didn't
    > particularily mind that his songs were being pillaged by rap artists.
    >

    I don't really agree with sampling, as I'm sure most people here would.However, I
    have been introduced to some things as a result of
    sampling. More scrupulous rap artists seem to credit original artists. That
    gives me the exposure to other artist that I might not have
    checked out before.

    With regards to Sting's attitude about sampling: If I were an artist
    like Sting that got sampled by a rap artist, I really wouldn't
    give a damn. Sample me, but give me mad props. I want to have
    credit. Have me sing what you sampled when you perform for
    eMpTyV. Have me appear in your video. Pay me. I wouldn't
    give a damn if you sampled. Just give me a cut. $$$$$
    That way you make me some money while you line your
    pockets. I deserve the advertising. I deserve the royalties.

    I also think it's kind of fun when I'm listening to Ice Cube and I recognize
    a Steely Dan sample from the Royal Scam album. It is kind of sad that
    sometimes I don't check to see where the sample is from and I hear
    the original song like hearing the Isley Bros. "Footsteps in the Dark"
    after hearing it sampled in Cube's "Today was a Good Day", or
    whatever it's called.

    Of course, most fools out there who have no sense of music
    history (I'm talking rock/pop here.) probably wouldn't check
    to see what the original song is. That also is sad. It doesn't
    just pertain to rap fans, though. I was in a guitar/music shop in
    Poughkeepsie. I heard some proto-Beavis play the intro to
    "Voodoo Chile (a Slight Return)" for his proto-Butthead buddy.
    Here's an approximation of the dialog.

    p-Beavis: Hey...check this out.
    p-Butthead: What's that?
    p-Beavis: It's Stevie Ray, man.
    me: [whispered under breath] Oh me gorshk, Olive Oyl! Get me outta here!!

    Okay, maybe he was intentionally covering the Stevie Ray Vaughn version
    rather than Hendrix'. Somehow, I doubt that.

    > However who really knows? If you listen to every puff song around, and I
    > have, because my cousing and youngest brother have no taste, he steals
    > from everybody without shame or even credit half the time. I think it's
    > disgusting that kids think Sting is that guy who sang with Puff Daddy. and
    > that I'll be missing you might actually be, to some uneducated fuck, the
    > original. People might not actually know of Every Breath you Take by the
    > Police. Did you know that Puffy also samples music from Rocky? And now,
    > Led Zeplin. Maybe they shot the wrong rapper?

    Puff Daddy sucks. I agree. His rip-off tendencies are a detriment to thelegacy of
    both R&B and the non-R&B stuff that he samples. Come to think
    of it, I think that he's only sampling non-R&B stuff judging from what
    has been recently released.

    I do think that he has done some nice work as a producer, though. Work
    with Mariah Carey on a track from her new album is fine with me.
    Work with Faith Evans was pretty cool in my book. I rather he produce
    instead of rap and sample. Not to say that he hasn't sampled with those
    he has produced.

    > I don't know, it makes me
    > ill. I am waiting for them to start raping Geneiss, Yes, ELP, DT, and
    > Rush. And folks, dance music is no better. You take any hit out today and
    > turn it into a dance song, regardless. That titanic song became a dance
    > number in a month. anything for a hit. That song was actually a beautiful
    > song, and they had to slap a dance fucking beat behind it. Ruined the
    > context, the meaning, and the emotion of the song. I hate dance.

    You know, I doubt that we'll ever hear sampled prog, but you never know.It's too
    cool in our books, too musically awesome for your average, everyday
    top-40 listener to get it. Puff Daddy, being the consummate music industry
    businessman would probably understand that at some level. So I don't think
    you have to worry.

    Regarding Celine Dion. I hate Celine Dion. Just thought I'd say that.
    I'd like the Titanic song if it weren't for her. I heard a friend of
    mine play the song (instrumental version) on the piano. I thought
    it was beautiful. I suppose my aversion to Celine Dion clouded
    my judgment. Enough Celine Dion comments for now.

    > I hate
    > rap. The only rap I respect is old school. I remember the days when
    > Run/DMC actually had a guitar player with them and the dude from aerosmith
    > singing on their album. LL cool J still kicks ass. Has anybody ever heard
    > his recent song, the ripper strikes back, where he is tearing into another
    > rapper? He is so funny, I just had to laugh. probably the only rap song I
    > like. Andyway, I digress. Fuck rap.

    I would agree that old school stuff kicks the butt of the new crrrraaaaap.The best
    artists are the ones who have been around for a long time. The
    thing I like better is the R&B where samples are not used. I like when
    there are real instruments being played by people like Me'Shell NdegeOcello,
    D'angelo, and some others. D'angelo is just the smoothest on the keys.
    Prince also comes to mind as one who plays his own instruments and
    writes his own stuff.

    I guess my point here is that jokers like Muff Daddy kind of obscure
    some of the cooler stuff going on in traditionally African-American
    music styles. I hate him for that stuff, but I thank him for my
    Faith Evans album.

    Just my 200 cents.

    -Rob

    ------------------------------

    Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:51:00 -0700
    From: Rob Jurado <Jurado@worldnet.att.net>
    To: ytsejam@ax.com
    Subject: Re: Rap lyrics
    Message-ID: <3558A823.FA4428B4@worldnet.att.net>

    ytsejam@ax.com wrote:

    > Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 19:17:25 -0400 (EDT)
    > From: Damon Fibraio <damon@shell.monmouth.com>
    > To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
    >
    > If you ever listen to the lyrics of any rap song today, the tune is always
    > more money more money and more money. Whatever they can do to make a buck.
    >

    Well...I don't agree. You forgot, "Do me". You also forgot, "I'll do you likeno one's ever done you before." ;)

    -Rob

    ------------------------------

    End of YTSEJAM Digest 3886
    **************************



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 18:08:59 EST