YTSEJAM Digest 3932
Today's Topics:
1) Fixing the broken setlist
by Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net>
2) nitpickers
by "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
3) My bad & DT/DP/ELP opening setlist
by Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@geocities.com>
4) Re: Selling Out?
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
5) Re: New topic: setlist as openers
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
6) Re: Andre Matos
by Peter Andersson <pe-and@sectra.se>
7) Mellotrons
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
8) Re: TTT on the DP/DT/ELP tour
by Adam Pye <alpineone@mindspring.com>
9) DT/ELP/DP Setlist
by "Ivan Navarro" <inavarro@mdo.net>
10) Tour T-shirts
by Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@geocities.com>
11) Ft. Worth and SoC
by "Jeremy Bower" <scruffyj@hotmail.com>
12) Re: Andre Matos
by Joseph Bissonnette <jabisson@students.wisc.edu>
13) Sebastian Bach as replacement singer?
by "Nowik, George" <NowikG@data-io.com>
14) Re: Ft. Worth and SoC
by KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
15) Re: Mellotrons
by "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
16) Re: Sebastian Bach as replacement singer?
by "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:02:58 -0500
From: Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Fixing the broken setlist
Message-ID: <356AD9A2.40E4@auburn.net>
Calvin wrote:
> 6:00 AND Just Let Me breathe. Don't you think these two songs are very much
> alike - as far as vibe? I would definitely say one or the other - but not
> both. Personally - I'd choose 6:00 - cuz I heard JLMB twice recently :o)
Sort of the same vide, yes, but I always considered 6:00 to be more
keyboard driven, as opposed to JLMB, which is all about balls and chunk,
guitar style. If it had to be one or the other, I'd pick 6:00 too, but
it's not up to me.
Dave the misplaced UK jammer wrote:
> I also got tickets for Page and Plant who are playing the BJCC Coliseum,
> Birmingham, Al. on Monday 1st June - I think it's gonna rock - anyone
> else going (I don't know if there are any Alabama jammers).
Maybe they'll play the new Kashmir :) I know there's one or two other
Alabama 'jammers besides you and me (You or me? You not Me?).
Take care,
Mark Peters
swifty@auburn.net
The next Hank the Angry Drunken Dwarf
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:05:00 -0400
From: "Tedesco, Matthew" <tedescom@BDD.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: nitpickers
Message-ID: <199805261459.KAA14293@bertelsmanncis.com>
from Jeff:
> I'm really getting tired of these stupid arguments about moshing.
>Who cares. Everyone is at the show at their own risk so if you get hurt
>that is just too bad.
> Oh I almost forgot, has anybody heard of Spell Check? Nobody will
>ever take you seriously if you can't even spell. Proofread for crying
>out loud!
OK, Jeff, you decided to open the can of nitpicking worms, so you get what
you ask for. What exactly does crying out loud look like? In that last
sentence, after all, you're asking us to proofread for crying out loud, much
like someone would proofread for spelling errors. I don't get your meaning
at all! =-)
Moral of the story: I'd be willing to bet the MLA has their own mailing
list. Nobody here is writing for a grade, so as long as the meaning comes
across (as yours did), there's no need to argue over technical errors (as
yours had).
--MATt
Oh, and didn't Spell Check open for DT on the European leg of the Awake
tour? Were they any good? =-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:23:15 -0500
From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@geocities.com>
To: We have assumed control <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: My bad & DT/DP/ELP opening setlist
Message-ID: <356ADE63.42B7@geocities.com>
I'm sorry. I made a couple of mistakes in my last post (minus the HUGE
number of spelling errors. :) First, Nightmare Cinema had performed 3
times in the US PRIOR to the SA show bringing the total to 4: New York,
Chicago, LA, and San Antonio.
Second, I'm not sure about their playing a piece of Sweet Home Alabama..
but they were playing Skynyrd stuff, so it may have been in there. :)
Now, about the DT/DP/ELP opening setlist. First, I agree with whoever
said they have to play to the crowd. I wasn't impressed with FOTM
because they sounded like grunge/alternative, and I don't like that type
of music. From what I've heard, DP and ELP are more hardcore, so DT
ought to stay away from the LSoaD/AL stuff. One other thing ppl are
forgetting is that they CAN combine songs/shorten songs like they did on
this past tour. For example, they never played all of Met, so that cuts
10 min. off everyone's setlists. Just some of MHO. :) What an
interesting thread. :)
-Nicole/Kirby
--
Nicole Stachowicz McWatters : Kirby on irc.dreamt.org
Technical Writer and Dream Theater Nut!
ytsekirby@geocities.com -- http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:44:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Selling Out?
Message-ID: <19985262710318467@ix.netcom.com>
<<Hi everyone,
I'm one of them new Falling Into Infinity fans who totally, completely fell in
love with DT without listening to any of their other albums. I signed onto
this mailing list a couple weeks ago, and at that time, everyone was talking
about DT selling out. Well, today, I went out and got Images and
Words......and what the hell? I'm sorry to say this to all the long-time DT
fans, but I personally think that DT is better now than they were back in '92.
All that moaning about DT selling out is the most ridiculous thing I've ever
heard, unless "selling out" actually means growing as musicians. I'm not
saying that I didn't like I&M; but the fact is, they're jamming a lot harder
now.
Sorry if this subject's a bit out-dated.
Oh well.
>>
I too was brought on to DT by FII. I&W I happened to get AFTER Awake
and after ACOS. I must say, without a doubt, I&W is their best. I'm not
saying DT sold out with FII, but there are so many great parts in the many
songs of I&W that just make my jaw drop and my mouth smile (PMU, instrumentals
in TTT, Metropolis, LtL, Petrucci's solo in UaGM). FII is a much more mature album
in a sense that they werent showing off as much (which, depending on how
you look at it, is just BS), it does have its great moments (LitS, BMS, HK)
as well as the Derek/Petrucci run in JLMB, and lets not forget the great
TOT. But admit it, what is a more fun song to listen to? A crazy super
prog song like Metropolis or ANY song on FII? I still love FII, but I
still await the great Metropolis part 2, if its more insane than part 1, it will
hold the title for "Best Progressive Rock/Metal song ever" in my book.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:44:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: New topic: setlist as openers
Message-ID: <19985261450341@ix.netcom.com>
I really think that the booing down of DT wont be bad. Figuring as:
1. Like ELP, DT is prog, play Metropolis and they'll have ELP's fans' jaws
on the ground, unless they haven't heard of DT, which I don't think is possible,
although there might always be some old fogees there, so.....
2. Like DP, DT is heavy. They did Perfect Strangers, didnt they? So for a
select few, I don't think they'll badger DT much (and of course, us Jammers will
shut them up real fast if they do ;-)
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 18:22:52 +0200
From: Peter Andersson <pe-and@sectra.se>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Andre Matos
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980526182252.00991990@desmond.sectra.se>
>>What's great about Matos Voice? I have only heard Holy Land of Angra. Even
>>if the album is good I find Matos a pretty poor singer. Sometimes good,
>>sometimes boring, sometimes realy poor, but never excellent.
>
>Sorry, for a second I thought you were talking about Andre Matos from Angra
>there. Obviously confused, right?
>
>The man has one of the best voices around, easily up there with Keeper-era
>Michael Kiske and mid-80s Bruce Dickinson. If you consider him to be a
>poor singer, I'd love to hear who you consider to be great.
Michael Kiske's alright, but he screams to much, to little dynamics. Bruce
is definitly one of my favorites singers. He sounds great on The Number Of
The Beast and Piece Of Mind, but nobody can blame him for being the perfect
vocalist live, right? I love his singing anyway ...
Who's realy great? James LaBrie is. He's got power, dynamics, range - name
it! Geoff Tate's another great singer - as James but even more dynamic.
He's got a deep voice. Elvis is also a great singer - I'd love to hear him
in a metal tune! I also love James Hetfield's singing even if he's not a
perfect singer - he's just fantastic to my ears (especially on Master of
Puppets).
When it comes to Matos you can say he's got dynamics, range. But not power
(i.e. suitable voice for HEAVY tunes)! Besides this his vocals are not
always tastefully arranged!
>>In Make Believe (from Holy Land) during the end minute or so, he even sings
>>false. Not just a little, but much!
>
>I just listened to it and, sure enough, he sounds great there. What does
>'false' singing sound like, exactly? Enthrall me with your definition,
>please.
Sounding bad, basicly. That's the best "exact" definition I can think
about! Screaming without power and out of tune. It's mostly his screaming
that annoys me. When he sings normaly he's OK.
>Sorry, I'm just a little pissed off.
I don't want to piss anybody off. This is only my oppinion - not facts
(besides the false tunes and lack of power in Matos voice!) :)
Regards
/Peter Andersson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:26:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Mellotrons
Message-ID: <1998526122222341@ix.netcom.com>
<<And, I guess someone already said this... WTF is a mellotron? Or rather: =
how does it sound? Is it the sound DS uses in the beginning of LITS?>>
Nope, a mellotron is an old analog keyboard that utilized tape playbacks to get
its sound (most common were "brass band", "strings", and "choir").
Most famous for the mellotron sound is early Genesis and King Cirmson.
If you really want to hear what a mellotron sounds like, I suggest trying to find
a place on the net where you can hear samples of songs. Go to Genesis and
choose the album "foxtrot" or "Genesis Live" (they both have the same song).
Choose "Watcher of the Skies" the entire opening is totally mellotron, and it
it perhaps the best example of its sound. If you want I can send a Realaudio file.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:12:01 -0400
From: Adam Pye <alpineone@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: TTT on the DP/DT/ELP tour
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980526131201.0080cbc0@mindspring.com>
Paul "The Man" Cashman ejaculated:
>I'm not as certain as some of you that
>"TTT" couldn't be pulled off -- I think James is enough of a frontman
>that he can tell if the front of an audience is "with them" or not. I
>suspect most or all of these shows will be reserved-seating, so the
>likelihood of Ytsejammers ruling the front rows is somewhat remote
>(but wouldn't it be cool if......:)) --So having the crowd sing along
>might be too much to ask. Doesn't mean they couldn't do it, though,
>even if (horrors) James has to sing the chorus. Stranger things have
>happened.
I agree that it could (and maybe should) be pulled off. The thing to do
would be to get Mike/JP to sing the "You can feel the waves coming on" type
parts and have James sing "Take the TIIIIIIIIIIME." As a vocalist I
actually find doing the "TTT" part easier than the lines right before it.
It's really difficult to come out of the "If there's a pensive fear" part
right into "Life is no more assuring than love" part. You just get no
chance for a breather, and James has had problems doing so in the past. He
actually used to try to do the entire thing by himself (early in the I&W
tour), but there's just no way a single person can pull it off, even if it
is LaBrie. Take care all...
__________________________________________________
Adam Pye (Alpine/Alpineone/Alpione)
alpineone(-at-)mindspring.com ICQ: 9382967
http://www.mindspring.com/~alpineone/tapelist.html
^ Above URL for bootlist w/ setlists
__________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:11:40 -0400
From: "Ivan Navarro" <inavarro@mdo.net>
To: "'YTSEJAM MAILING LIST'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: DT/ELP/DP Setlist
Message-ID: <000001bd88c9$88287a00$ed12e7d0@nws.noaa.gov.osogroup>
Hey everyone,
Sorry for this long post, but I've been idling for a long time and just have
to speak out.
Please let this thread take over the 'new singer' thread. Enough already.
The idea of a change in band personnel at this stage of their careers gives
me the chills! this tour could be what puts them over the top and thoughts
of upsetting the chemistry that exists between them right now are pointless.
KJLB RULES - END OF DISCUSSION! Anyway, the set list for this upcoming tour
is a great/better discussion. I agree that they'll have about an hour,
unfortunately, probably a little less.
The very wise man Richie wrote:
>>...The whole purpose of opening up for
another band is to expose new people to your music. So you have to ask
yourself the following questions:
1) Why are fans coming to see the headliner?
Answer: They like the kind of music the headliner produces
2) What do we, as an opening band, have in our arsenal that is similar to
the type of music the headliner produces?
If you're a brand new band with only one album out, then you really don't
have that much of a choice. But DT is in the fortunate position to not
only have several albums of material to chose from, but several different
styles or "moods" to chose from as well. ...<<
RIGHT ON!! Richie, I think you've hit the nail right on the head.
I also believe that a 'metal' oriented approach to ELP/DP fans is not be the
best one. It's all DTs music so there is NO trickery possible with playing
songs that can be appreciated by non-metal fans. While it is true that the
old geezers (such as myself) can rock, you're not gonna see headbagging,
horns in the air (except maybe when DT plays :-)! Or moshing for that
matter(don't go there). A good example are my friends that I have introduced
to OFB at Vanderbilts and Irving Plaza. They were both huge Rush fans and
like Primus and all of the typical prog of the 70's and 80's (ie., YES,
Genesis, King Crimson...), I thought for sure they would love DT even though
they weren't familiar with their music. Guess what...wrong! It was just too
metal and too much for them, I was dumbfounded (sp?)!! Needless to say,
although I've known them for over 13 years, I dumped them as friends, will
never speak to them again, and will spit on their graves ;-)
IMO DT must promote the new album first and foremost while not overwhelming
the crowd with balls and chunk for the entire hour. My proposed set list is
as follows:
1. Metropolis/LTL/ACOS VIII Medley [This is how they're closing the present
tour and will certainly impress the hell out of the ELP fans and rock the
house.] - 10 min
** Welcome/Introduce BMS **
2. BMS (Duh!) - 6 min
3. NM [I still can't figure out why this song wasn't a standard on the
present tour, not played at IP-NYC!! I think a radio-edit version (save
time) would be very well received by us and the ELP/DP fans. I think those
of you who made and posted edits did a great job BTW.] - 8 min
4. LitS [IMO, the best song performed live of the present tour. It's a long
song but they gotta go for it, I'm hoping!] - 12 min
5. YNM [OK, I'm prepared to take some heat for this one but it got radio
airplay, has a good hook, and rocks, so I'm standing behind it.] - 5 min
6. HY [Gotta take it down eventually and this song, although it may not be
one of our favorites, it has a hook, shows versatility, and is more
accessible to a wider audience. Personally, I like every DT song, so I'll
enjoy the hell out of it.] - 5 min
7. Lie(Edit) [This song was released as a single and has a possibility of
being familiar to some of the ELP/DP audience. Definitely a great DT crowd
favorite.] - 5 min
8. PMU (Edit) [It's been a great closer in the past and will leave the crowd
remembering DT playing a song they are familiar with. I'm making the
assumption that the crowd will know PMU and liked it when they heard it on
the radio, if they didn't --THEY'RE LOST!!!] - 6 min
*#. I think a healthy dose of teasers would go over very well so I think
they should sneak them in wherever they can, although I'm pretty close to
the hour limit already.
A 45 min set would just totally suck! I feel better now.
Later, I-Man.
**** Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one and most of them stink.
****
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:14:15 -0500
From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@geocities.com>
To: We have assumed control <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Tour T-shirts
Message-ID: <356AEA57.25E@geocities.com>
Did anyone notice on the back of the latest FII T-shirts that they have
El Paso listed instead of Lubbock? I understand that the band briefly
considered going to El Paso when the Houston venue backed out, but they
wound up in Lubbock anyway. I wonder how many other cities are like
that?
-Nicole/Kirby
--
Nicole Stachowicz McWatters : Kirby on irc.dreamt.org
Technical Writer and Dream Theater Nut!
ytsekirby@geocities.com -- http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:09:54 PDT
From: "Jeremy Bower" <scruffyj@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Ft. Worth and SoC
Message-ID: <19980526160955.2451.qmail@hotmail.com>
whew! so many jams to read now after a long weekend! Going back a
little, I'd like to shout out to Nicole and hubby, from the Ft. Worth
show, not Wade, but JEREMY! =) Anyhoo, the 4hr line wait wasn't bad
with other jammers out there, and seeing Derek buy a coffee was cool
too. The show was awesome, there's not a better place in the world than
front row on John P.'s side! The man is awesome to watch, and it's
cooler than hell when he looks at u and then starts to grimace as he
plays. Makes ya feel like a little school girl, your heart all a
flutter. =) Anyhoo, then, I had the black and gold DT banner that got
presented to the crowd b4 Nicole's, and as James said, I did put a hell
of a lot of work into it, so I was happy he took it for the world to
see. And even better than that, my brother was the first of the
audience to play with Mike, that was REALLY cool! Of course, he didn't
get the last part right, the "secret knock" code, but then, the second
screwed it up after hearing my bro mess it up. =) The only bad part was
having to wait forever for the bus, but Mike stopped it and him and
James came out, apologized, saying they didn't know we were out there,
and signed everyone's stuff. Oh yeah, and Mike said to tell the jam
"hey". =)
One last thing, Mike Bahr, SoC ROCKS!!!! =)
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:24:38 -0500
From: Joseph Bissonnette <jabisson@students.wisc.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Andre Matos
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980526122437.0076377c@students.wisc.edu>
>
>>What's great about Matos Voice? I have only heard Holy Land of Angra. Even
>>if the album is good I find Matos a pretty poor singer. Sometimes good,
>>sometimes boring, sometimes realy poor, but never excellent.
>
>Sorry, for a second I thought you were talking about Andre Matos from Angra
>there. Obviously confused, right?
>
I'm also having a little trouble seeing why Matos is held in such high
regard. He's just so whiny. Don't you ever get the urge to give him a
good boot to the head? Like at the end of Carry On where he sings
"fiiiii-EEEE-iiiind". That just makes me cringe.
>The man has one of the best voices around, easily up there with Keeper-era
>Michael Kiske and mid-80s Bruce Dickinson. If you consider him to be a
>poor singer, I'd love to hear who you consider to be great.
Geoff Tate. Range, power, emotion, and that awesome haunting tone. There
is none higher.
Joe
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 09:32:46 -0800
From: "Nowik, George" <NowikG@data-io.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Sebastian Bach as replacement singer?
Message-ID: <C7EA264064ACD011BE4500805FC1DCA1018F3F68@SATURN.nt.data-io.com>
for those of you who think that Sebastian Bach would make a wonderful
replacement singer for James LaBrie if it ever came to that, i highly
recommend listening to SB's version of Natural Science on the "Working
Man" Rush tribute cd. i respect vocal talent, but i think that by the
fourth orgasm, er, vocal peak, his voice that it would wear a little
thin on my nerves. there are obviously many possible selections, but
trying to picture someone filling the shoes of LaBrie's potent and
powerful voice escapes me right now...
-= norg =-
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:41:56 EDT
From: KEZCOM <KEZCOM@aol.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Ft. Worth and SoC
Message-ID: <99952381.356afee5@aol.com>
In a message dated 98-05-26 13:29:04 EDT, you write:
<< One last thing, Mike Bahr, SoC ROCKS!!!! =) >>
Really? Who would know? What, did you meet up with Mr. Bahr personally and
threaten him?
Yea, I know, old thread, but the next album will be out before some of us see
our SoC.
Just venting,
Kez
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:46:11 -0400
From: "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Mellotrons
Message-ID: <356AFFE3.A035265C@caribe.net>
mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> <<And, I guess someone already said this... WTF is a mellotron? Or rather: =
> how does it sound? Is it the sound DS uses in the beginning of LITS?>>
>
In the making of FII cd theres a mellotron sample.. if anyone wants it.. email me and
ill make a wav for you
-The Next John Petrucci :)
In the stream of consciousness
There is a river crying
Living comes much easier
Once we admit , We're dying.
Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand
http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro
Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service
mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com
Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:49:24 -0400
From: "Carlos \"?r?g??¥\" Alfaro" <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Sebastian Bach as replacement singer?
Message-ID: <356B00A4.965F4905@caribe.net>
Nowik, George wrote:
> for those of you who think that Sebastian Bach would make a wonderful
> replacement singer for James LaBrie if it ever came to that, i highly
> recommend listening to SB's version of Natural Science on the "Working
> Man" Rush tribute cd.
actually he sang on working man and jacob's ladder... natural science
was sung by mr devin townsend (kickass version too)
--
-The Next John Petrucci :)
In the stream of consciousness
There is a river crying
Living comes much easier
Once we admit , We're dying.
Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand
http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro
Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service
mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com
Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 3932
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