YTSEJAM Digest 4434
Today's Topics:
1) Re: 5YiaL question
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
2) Re: Stuff to look for in 5yial !!!
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
3) Neil Pert question and drums
by "Robert Newcomb" <newcombr@netdot.com>
4) Seven String on FII
by JonPowley@aol.com
5) Re: Stuff to look for in 5yial !!!
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
6) Re: 5YiaL question
by MentolPyro@aol.com
7) Re: Neil Pert question and drums
by Andrew James Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
8) conception
by John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
9) Voices
by Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU>
10) Ha!
by Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU>
11) Falsetto
by Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4433
by "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net>
13) 7 string and tool
by Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
14) Trevor Rabin
by "Juan Fco. Quintero" <jfqc@nl1.telmex.net.mx>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4433
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
16) Moorcock, anyone?
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:19:24 -0500
From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: 5YiaL question
Message-ID: <36539C4C.BE05CEBA@caribe.net>
Mike Pontrelli wrote:
> On my copy Derek's keys seem WAY too low in the mix - has anyone else
> noticed this, or is it possible thatmy tape is messed up? It sounds great
> except for Derek's keys, especially in 6:00.
>
> Cheers!
>
> -Ponte
The show that 6:00 and Voices is take out, sounds like that, the keys are very
low at times, specially 6:00, the solo is not even audible, but thats the
original source's fault..the same with Myung's farting bass tone on that whole
concert which is the japan WoWoW show or Mind Control on cd....
"[...] people will cringe..." - John Petrucci
In the stream of consciousness
There is a river crying
Living comes much easier
Once we admit , We're dying.
Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand
http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro
Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service
mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com
Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:30:35 -0200 (EDT)
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Stuff to look for in 5yial !!!
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9811190124030.20665-100000@sushi>
On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Dennis Leeflang wrote:
> Carlos Alfaro wrote:
>
> <<< Well besides what Jose said about the 2 guys kissing behind Portnoy
> and
> the fat dude from Pantera, >>>
>
> That fat dude can play faster and heavier than any other drummer on this
> planet...
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... You don't know what you're
talking about, Dennis. :-) Really, do you actually mean that "faster" on
your post? Do you think Pantera is fast? Man, if you lived near my home,
I'd get a bunch of CDs I have here and would go to your place to show you
what are *FAAAAAAAAAST* drummers. :-) And also what *HEAVY* music is
about. :-)
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:16:46 -0600 From: "Robert Newcomb" <newcombr@netdot.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Neil Pert question and drums Message-ID: <199811190334.TAA09607@knight.axnet.net>
I gotta question for anyone who can/will answer. I recently purchased Rush-Different Stages cd. Inside there are pictures of the band. Well it appears to me that Neil is only playing with one bass drum in the pics. I have seen his set up before and he always had two of them. So did the picture decieve me or is Peart slaying ass with only one bass drum now?
Thanx
Thorin
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:36:38 EST From: JonPowley@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Seven String on FII Message-ID: <af1a631f.36539246@aol.com>
I believe that when the band kicks in on Lines in the Sand, Petrucci is playing chords on the seven string, like adding a few low 5ths in. At least that's what it has in the tab book . . .
Jon
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:59:12 -0500 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Stuff to look for in 5yial !!! Message-ID: <3653A5A0.AABAFF48@caribe.net>
Rogerio Brito wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Dennis Leeflang wrote: > > > That fat dude can play faster and heavier than any other drummer on this > > planet... > > Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... You don't know what you're > talking about, Dennis. :-) Really, do you actually mean that "faster" on > your post? Do you think Pantera is fast? Man, if you lived near my home, > I'd get a bunch of CDs I have here and would go to your place to show you > what are *FAAAAAAAAAST* drummers. :-) And also what *HEAVY* music is > about. :-) > > []s, Roger...
hey rogerio, speaking about fast drummers, i just got Opeth's latest effort..and ive gotta ask.. Whats up with the crappy mix?!! The only other album of them i have is morningrise, and the instruments sound very good, specially the acoustic parts, but the mixing is horrible!! no sound separation whatsoever! And i find this wierd, since Every other century media cd i own has superb production and mixing.. (tiamat- wildhoney, Deeper kind of slumber and clouds, Theatre of tragedy- Aegis) But these 2 opeth records , the instruments sound very good but the overall mix really detracts from the music! Nevertheless, this album is GREAT, just like morningrise :)
"[...] people will cringe..." - John Petrucci
In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:06:32 EST From: MentolPyro@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: 5YiaL question Message-ID: <d6e956c9.36539948@aol.com>
that's just cuz throughout that whole performance (the one you're reffering to is the WOWOW Japan Pay Per View 95 broadcast) the keys were way too low, but through the rest of the video i didn't notice any problems
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:12:55 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew James Embler <aembler@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Neil Pert question and drums Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981118201142.23425B-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Wed, 18 Nov 1998, Robert Newcomb wrote:
> > I gotta question for anyone who can/will answer. I recently purchased > Rush-Different Stages cd. Inside there are pictures of the band. Well it > appears to me that Neil is only playing with one bass drum in the pics. I > have seen his set up before and he always had two of them. So did the > picture decieve me or is Peart slaying ass with only one bass drum now?
I believe that he switched to a DW double bass pedal and one bass drum for the T4E tour.
Andrew
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:42:31 -0800 (PST) From: John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam dream theater <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: conception Message-ID: <19981119044231.22116.rocketmail@send1e.yahoomail.com>
Some dude decided to let us know that he,
>also got Conception - In Your Multitude
I was just wondering if conception have a website or a place to download some clips, as I don't want to buy their cd without hearing some bit of it.
== John
_________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:55:44 -0500 From: Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Voices Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981118235544.007b94f0@pop.gl.umbc.edu>
>Well, my post, in essence, today, is the complete opposite of what we >here at the Jam call "a bitch". (anyone catch that movie reference?) >I'd like to address the "LaBrie issue". Someone here mentioned that >those bitching about LaBrie aren't vocalists themselves - and I >couldn't agree more. I happen to be a vocalist of much the same >style, and of much the same musical/educational background. LaBrie >studied with a world-renouned opera coach for 4 years. I think he >knows what he's doing.
A world-renowned coach is no fucking guarantee. And, there is a HUGE difference between a teacher and a coach.
>Every little thing he gets criticized for is technically correct,
Says who?
>and helps him hit those notes up in the stratosphere. First, when he >sticks out his tongue on the high notes, that's only to create more >open space in the throat so he can sing louder, brighter, and more >forward.
While it is true that sticking out the tongue can give a singer the SENSATION of an open throat (and that's why teachers have students do that: to get the SENSATION into their muscle memories), sticking out the tongue as far as James does LOCKS THE JAW. It is impossible to stick out the tongue that far and not bring some kind of tension into the jaw. And that's before you even start to phonate. RUN away from any teacher who makes you sing with your tongue sticking out of your mouth.
>When he sings AHHH-VOICES like that, he's doing something my voice >coach calls "breathing the vowel". You have the placement for one >vowel already in your mouth when you switch to the next, and when you >have to sing as loud as he does, it's far easier and less strenuous >on the voice to actually sing that note instead of breathing it.
Is it? Why?
"Breathing the vowel" is something that should be done upon inspiration, not phonation. To voice it is just inefficient use of air.
>And about diction? Go listen to Pavarotti and tell me if you can >understand a word he's saying when he sings really high.
I can. But, Pavarotti is speaking in his native language of Italian. The reason we can't understand James is because he's singing in English and not his native language of Canadian. :)
eh?
>When you sing high, you MUST concentrate on the breath support first, >the placement second, the tone third, and the diction/lyrics LAST.
Well, most teachers will tell you that whenever you sing, your PRIMARY function is the interpretation of the text. When I sing classical, my job is to convey the lyrics of Goethe or Verlaine or DaPonte. When I sing rock/metal/pop my job is to interpret the lyrics of the person who wrote them.
And TONE and PLACEMENT are by-products of support.
>Though DT's lyrics are very cool and very interesting (and one of the >main reasons I love DT), LaBrie's function is more of an instrument >than to convey the lyrics, IMO.
Well, IMO, that's an insult to the lyrics of Petrucci, Portnoy, and Myung.
>Vocalists are fucking human, and have fucking bad nights, just like >when Petrucci misses a 256th note here and there, and Portnoy gets a >tiny bit off on a really long 12th note double bass run, NO BIG DEAL.
This is very true.
>worried that James is losing his range, go listen to New Millenium. >Listen to the background (octave doubled) vox at about 8:00, when he >sings the words "The tide is turning now baby". Yup, that's a HIGH >G.
It's big time falsetto, baby.
>guess that's about it for now. I wish we could all just realize how >much better LaBrie is than pretty much anyone out there. He's so >versatile and so passionate when he sings, I think it's amazing.
Well, in the studio, yes, but live he has never struck me as either versatile or passionate. And THAT'S where Ray Alder has him beat.
>Especially singing as a baritone, these tips are important. My voice >teacher tells me that opening up the throat when I sing is perhaps >one of the biggest advantages to a good bright tone. Otherwise the
Well, yes an open throat is very important, but there's NOT MUCH you can do physically to the throat to "open" it. Open throat comes from proper inspiration and proper support.
>KJLB was singing in front of an orchestra in an operatic situation >(where there are NO microphones, it's all done acoustically), he >would have the carrying power to go above, or rather "cut through" >the orchestra. This is incredibly important.
Possibly. Now that he's using a condenser mic live (in some venues) you can hear the high partials much better and can hear when he would cut through the orchestra. However, when he's having problems you can bet your won't hear that "singer's formant" riding atop his vocal line.
>He really sings a high *G*? I know several WOMEN who can't sing a >high G without going into falsetto. ALL of whom are voice majors. >All I can say is: Wow.
It's falsetto, baby. Men and women's voices are naturally an octave apart, as far as placement is concerned. So it's the actual pitch of a woman singing the G sitting right on top of the G clef, not the one an octave above that. I know plenty of women who can sing that note. My girlfriend can.
Many people don't understand the difference in the vocal registers between men and women. For further discourse on this, email me privately (although I'm not sure why anyone would want to).
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:09:04 -0500 From: Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Ha! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981119000904.007b5940@pop.gl.umbc.edu>
>This is the biggest load of horse shit! I don't care who LaBrie >studied under, how he uses his tongue, or how hard it is to sing that >high. Many of us on this list have been classically trained to play >an instrument or sing. Many have not. What difference does it make >in this case other than to note what LaBrie is 'trying' to do. You >make the argument that because LaBrie studied from a world renowned >opera coach that he somehow knows his shit. I'm sure he does, but >what difference does it make when he is up on that stage oversinging, >cracking notes, and basically covering up some real talent that is >accompanying him. You know, I have an old DT bootleg with LaBrie and >he cracks so many notes that I would swear he just entered puberty. >He tries to sing so damn loud and high that he totally destroys >the song! OiAL is not much different in spots. He needs to back >off. I really doubt LaBrie did all that screaming during his lessons >with his 'world renowned opera coach', and I doubt they taught it to >him. > >My .02 worth. > >Scott
This is the most itelligent thing I have ever read on this list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> But, I just wanna say.. OiaL is one of the best live albums that >I have ever heard. Especially in comparison to Rush's new live >album. The sound quality isn't particularly good on Rush's live >album.. at least I think it could have been better, especially for >the cost. Sure, Rush's was a triple disc.. but the sound quality >could have been better.
Wow I couldn't agree less. :) I think the Rush live album has PRISTINE sound. Every instrument. Not only that, but I paid less for Rush's album than for DT's. Rush was $17 at Best Buy. DT was $22 at Tower.
Not to mention that the performance on DiffStages blows OiaL away.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 00:21:35 -0500 From: Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Falsetto Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981119002135.0079d800@pop.gl.umbc.edu>
>Well, you know, I can sing nearly an octave higher than that in >falsetto
Well, I 'm sure you can sing an octave above the note that James is singing in NM in your falsetto (I can sing soprano high c in falsetto.), but that note isn't as high as everyone thinks it is. It just SEEMS higer because it's in...yep: falsetto.
>but that is NOT falsetto.
Yes, it is.
>Go ahead and listen to LtL, TTT, AD, ACoS. They all E's which >are DEFINITELY not falsetto. LtL is an F#, so I'm SURE he can sing a G.
I'm sure he can, too, but the one in NM is falsetto, and not even as high as everyone is saying it is.
>And he's got kids, so I guess he's not a castrotto... :)
castrato.
Steve Z
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:59:30 -0500 From: "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4433 Message-ID: <19981119050343.NNCP5793@239157822worldnet.att.net>
Hey, Carlos replied to my shameless post: >6:00, voices? scarred?! ... >the songs are for 6 string..
I was pretty sure I was wrong about Scarred, but I've tried to figure out sections of the other two, and I can't get them on my six, so I figured it was seven. I don't doubt for a second that Carlos is right, but I was going by my own attempts at transcribing (granted, only half-hearted), and not Mr. Petrucci's word himself. :) The only songs I've transcribed start to finish of DT are TWIUTB and Peruvian Skies. Those were enough of a chore, never mind that solo in Voices!
Stodgers
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 01:25:20 -0500 From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: 7 string and tool Message-ID: <3653B9D0.BF1F2E5D@bigfoot.com>
So, these are the songs where JP uses the 7 string?
6:00, CiaW, Voices, Mirror, Lie, Scarred? (not sure there), and SDV is either dropped-D or a 7 string ACOS New Millenium, JLMB
That's very intersting, because on all those albums, those are the best songs. Huh.
As for Tool: I think there's no question they're the best band on the radio. Undertow is great, and at first I only liked the album Aenima for the song Aenima, but now I like 4 or 5 other songs on that album, too. But Aenima the song is the pinnacle of scalding sarcasm, and I liked it for a year before I even knew what the lyrics were.
-- Joshua Rasiel jrasi@bigfoot.com www.j51.com/~mrasiel "Shop Smart. Shop...S-Mart!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:06:10 -0600 From: "Juan Fco. Quintero" <jfqc@nl1.telmex.net.mx> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Trevor Rabin Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981118220610.007abb60@nl1.telmex.net.mx>
He also did the music of Armagedon and Con Air, both of the same Director.
>Did anyone else notice, in the ad for the movie "Enemy of the State", >that Trevor Rabin is doing the music? Nice to see he still can get work, >after being crucified worldwide by every "true" Yes fan :))))
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Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 03:33:47 -0500 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@caribe.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4433 Message-ID: <3653D7EA.3E3B324C@caribe.net>
Thomas Forcier wrote:
> Hey, > Carlos replied to my shameless post: > >6:00, voices? scarred?! ... > >the songs are for 6 string.. > > I was pretty sure I was wrong about Scarred, but I've tried to figure out > sections of the other two, and I can't get them on my six, so I figured it > was seven. I don't doubt for a second that Carlos is right, but I was going > by my own attempts at transcribing (granted, only half-hearted), and not > Mr. Petrucci's word himself. :) The only songs I've transcribed start to > finish of DT are TWIUTB and Peruvian Skies. Those were enough of a chore, > never mind that solo in Voices! > > Stodgers >
I havent transcribed any of them, :) I just read them off the Awake book..which i guess Jp (at least ) checked for correct stuff. Plus from his live performances of the songs..which dont sound any different from the album, as oppossed to what Puppies on acid sounded like with a 6 string, [with the little trick(technique?) that Jp used back then]. Ive found that using the tab actually helps some..even if you can read the staff...
"[...] people will cringe..." - John Petrucci
In the stream of consciousness There is a river crying Living comes much easier Once we admit , We're dying. Dream Theater: Lines in the Sand http://premium.caribe.net/~calfaro Tech Support Rep : Caribbean Internet Service mailto:calfaro@caribe.net mailto:ytseprog@yahoo.com Universal Internet Number (ICQ) 1254229
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:36:13 -0800 (PST) From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Moorcock, anyone? Message-ID: <199811190736.AA03195@crl.crl.com>
(...The two strapping young lads in the background on the 5YiaLT vid need not reply. :))
Okay, I'll toss in a few more words about M. Moorcock since I've "got an angle" (to borrow from the best music movie, HEAVY METAL).... As some of you know, I was president of Mike Moorcock's international fan club for about five years, have a short-story published in the ELRIC -- TALES OF THE WHITE WOLF anthology and had one of the Elric novels dedicated to me and three friends: yea, I'm down with MM.
As someone correctly observed, BOC did "at least two" MM-related songs, and indeed MM wrote the lyrics for three BOC songs: "Black Blade," "Veteran of a Thousand Psychic Wars" (a perennial favorite amongst my friends) and "The Great Sun Jester" (from the MIRRORS album). To this day, Eric Bloom of BOC (also a friend) would love to get more lyrics from MM..... The world waits.
Aside from the title, I didn't see any obvious relationship between DP's Stormbringer and the Elric saga.
There are a rather staggering number of MM-related songs and bands out there, ranging from Chicago's Stormbringer to England's Mournbalde (both defunct, the latter for perhaps a decade now). Hawkwind, of course, were nearly synonymous with MM until their falling-out in c. 1986 over the most-excellent cd THE CHRONICLE OF THE BLACK SWORD -- in 1975, MM was a de-facto member of Hawkwind for the WARRIOR AT THE EDGE OF TIME album. Other bands include The Tygers of Pan Tang (from the UK, part of the new wave of British heavy metal) and LA's Cirith Ungol, who mixed a Tolkien name with Moorcock songs and Elric album covers.
Hmm, the tale grows longer in the telling. If you're interested in all this, go ahead and email me. :)
-- Sometimes a view from sinless eyes / Centers our perspective Paul W. Cashman And pacifies our cries / Sometimes the anguish we survive vanyel@crl.com And the mysteries we nurture / Are the fabrics of our lives ICQ# 4151223 "Lines in the Sand," Dream Theater - FALLING INTO INFINITY www.crl.com/~vanyel
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4434 **************************
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