YTSEJAM Digest 4454
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4453 4/4 and 12/12
by AyameYuki@aol.com
2) new steve vai
by JKorby1973@aol.com
3) Re: Less is more...
by Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
4) Less is more
by "Rahul Ananda" <rananda@mcn.com>
5) ease down, guy
by "Rahul Ananda" <rananda@mcn.com>
6) new steve vai
by "J.T. Beachler" <biggestmuff@yahoo.com>
7) Prog/Metal Fans
by Uroborosss@aol.com
8) Stagnation, etc.
by "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net>
9) Happy Thanksgiving Jammers
by Nshsunsfan@aol.com
10) Re: "Less is more" words of wisdom from Neil Peart
by Ibanez506@aol.com
11) Less is WHAT? :)
by Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU>
12) Pink Floyd / Jazz-metal
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
13) dream theater making movies now???
by "Chris Milne" <cmilne@wam.umd.edu>
14) Therion etc.
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
15) Fwd: Confirmed DT Holiday Shows
by Portnoy420@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 21:27:35 EST
From: AyameYuki@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4453 4/4 and 12/12
Message-ID: <8491475.365b6b17@aol.com>
lol...i agree. its natural blowing grey chunks after some blue corn burritos (
dont ask. its lunchroom figure. eat at your own healt risk ). just like 4/4
with eating properly ( warner bros. )..lol..that porky episode...anyway...if
you divide...i say lets compose a piece in 1/1. but oh yeah....wouldnt really
make sense...unless youre Igor Stravinsky .
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:05:11 EST
From: JKorby1973@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: new steve vai
Message-ID: <29da1897.365b73e7@aol.com>
Steve is putting together a 10 CD boxed set. It will be released early 1999.
The cd in question is just 1 cd from the boxed set put as a "preview" of
what's to come. The boxed set covers most of his career and includes some rare
and never before heard songs he's done. I think at least half if not most of
the 10 cd's will be re-released/remastered stuff though, but don't quote me on
that.
-JK
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:17:55 -0500
From: Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Less is more...
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19981124221755.006a1a2c@pop.usefulware.com>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids....
Steve Z. remarked:
>"Less is more" is what people who suck say.
Oh, so? Two words: Chroma Key.
Now, do you still think "less is more" is a foolish statement? Get real.
ta,
Phil
=========================================================
Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com http://www.mindspring.com/~philcarter
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
-- Berthold Auerbach
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:43 -0800
From: "Rahul Ananda" <rananda@mcn.com>
To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Less is more
Message-ID: <199811250321.TAA24008@knight.axnet.net>
This part of Dennis' post reminded me of something funny
I saw on Neil Peart's Work in Progress video. Though
Neil rambles entirely too much, he offers this little gem.
When spouting about his reputation as a busy drummer, he
talks about the fact that less isn't more. Less is, in fact,
less. He then says that the acronym KISS (keep it simple, stupid)
inevitably leads to LOVE. Yup, Leave Out Virtually Everything
Neil is cool :) Too bad he talks so goddamn much on the video.
-rahul ananda
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 16:31 -0800
From: "Rahul Ananda" <rananda@mcn.com>
To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: ease down, guy
Message-ID: <199811250321.TAA24010@knight.axnet.net>
Dennis Leeflang erupted thusly:
>Do all drummers have to be impressing? I bet at least half of you
>prog drummers out there freak out when they're asked to lay
>down a solid 4/4. Maybe that's why most of you guys don't
>appreciate Metallica anymore...
"Impressing" doesn't necessarily mean "technically impressing."
John Bonham was an impressive drummer...but hardly the technically
impressing type like all these other drummers we've been yapping
about over the past week. Most of us don't appreciate Lars
anymore because, quite simply, the shit he plays is boring.
He doesn't have the right feel (there's that word again!) to
be an interesting simple drummer. Bonham had it, Ringo had it.
Lars doesn't. As this is bordering on Metallica talk, kindly
direct any disagreements on Lars to private e-mail.
As far as Phil goes, he does some pretty challenging figures
(Los Endos on Trick of the Tail" or Nuclear Burn by Brand X)
but it's nothing that any reasonably competent drummer can't do.
But he does play the "right" beat. Which hardly any drummer does.
Here lies his strength, he correctly accentuates the music, and
_occasionally_ does something chopsy when occasion demands. After
all, Genesis and Brand X are not NEARLY as busy note-wise as DT.
Instead of jumping all over Neil and accusing half the drummers
on the list of not being able to play Smells Like Teen Spirit,
you could have said something, I don't know....interesting?
One last thing..sorry to fill my posts with intangibles like
"feel" or "right beat" but I can think of no concrete way
to describe some of these elusive things.
-Rahul Ananda (making up for over 4 years of lurking in ONE
FUCKING WEEK)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:43:09 -0800 (PST)
From: "J.T. Beachler" <biggestmuff@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: new steve vai
Message-ID: <19981125034309.15615.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com>
I was cheking out upcoming releases from one Finnish (www.anttila.fi to
finnjammahs :) store, and they had new steve vai coming in november...is
there any truth to this?
---------------------------
it's the Flexable Leftovers album.
yeah! way to go Steve! (said with sarcasm)
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:58:23 EST
From: Uroborosss@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Prog/Metal Fans
Message-ID: <aa34b544.365b805f@aol.com>
> From: Phillip <pkish@sprynet.com>
> Subject: what is progressive anyways? (stagnation subject)
>
> I think what chris said holds true for a lot of prog fans after a while.
> I started out getting all the stuff, you know:
What about the metal side of the "prog-metal" fans? How are they adapting to
the present state of music? Is metal dying out? Should metal change? Is
Metallica doing the right thing? Can heavy metal get any heavier? Should those
bands just knock it off because it's all been done? Does metal even have the
same sonic parameters as prog?
I've been a metal/shred fan for years, and I don't love metal/shred any less
than I did in 1992 when I picked up "Images & Words." The metal/shred scene
hasn't died, and if you think so you just aren't aware of what's out there.
What's changed is the idea of betting on something that's been around for
decades versus bringing in the new acts and the new audiences, THAT'S what
many club and arena owners are into now. People will only bet on something to
make money for so long, and this gamble will deteriorate with the onset of new
styles or ideas within an artistic medium such as music. But don't think for a
second that there are fewer metal bands out there now than there were five
years ago, or that the Shrapnel catalog has gotten any smaller, it's all still
out there. (well okay, so perhaps Shrapnel no longer has "over 100" shredders
available via magazines, they still have a buttload)
I grew up with jazz, hearing it every week for several hours on Sunday
afternoons, and I think this had a lot to do with my sudden gravitation
towards music of extreme drive and easily-recognizeable structure (METAL) when
I got to high school and stopped listening to swingin' jazzy bebop. What Chris
Ptacek feels about jazz engulfing his former love of metal is pretty much what
I felt after going to jazz clubs for over ten years and suddenly being
entranced with Anthrax's "State of Euphoria." The only "jazz" album I own at
the moment is Herbie Hancock's "The New Standard," and I probably listen to it
once a month if even that. I have yet to reach a point of wanting "something
more" from music to the point where I hang up my shredder-cloak and search for
something else.
> Dream Theater - "Fu(*k! this is awesome"
> then came Fates Warning, etc. then came along stuff like Shadow
> Gallery ("dude this rules!!!)" but after a while, it starts losing that
special
> feeling to it.
Dream Theater - "I have heard my musical nirvana! Now I must go find this
"first album" everyone is talking about!" Then came along Fates Warning,
Galactic Cowboys, Shadow Gallery, Ivanhoe, and a slew of other bands most of
which I couldn't stand. The metal side of this discussion ("me") really likes
the Galactic Cowboys but does not possess the option of owning a Shadow
Gallery album. I had a tape of some Shadow Gallery songs once, and I wondered
if I could have traded it for some new bricks or a few spare combs, but
instead I decided to sneak it into a nearby landfill.
> Like the new Shadow gallery, I got it to very little fanfare, and even
though I
> like it, it's nothing that I haven't really heard before, nothing that makes
me want
> to call my friends up and say, "check this out" because it's familiar turf.
The "familiar turf" depends on which path the listener was led on after
hearing Dream Theater and being absolutely blown away. So they investigated
the genre of prog-rock, fine, but where did it take them? There's prog,
there's metal, and there's the "whoooah" path. Some of my friends took the
"whoooah" path from Dream Theater's collective body of early influences and
similar progmetal bands. That path went (and goes) like this: Pink Floyd -->
Grateful Dead --> Phish --> whoooah dude!! *cough* *cough*
Rush (prog) and Metallica (metal) were frowned upon in favor of DT's
influences that matched the pace of guppies in a fishbowl. All that these
friends of mine listened to from 1993 onward was "Dark Side Of The Moon" and
other assorted weasels named Phee. There is no metal or prog in them anymore,
and I can't believe I ever gave that Rush-loving bass-player a transcription
for the bass solo in "Metropolis." These days he'd rather watch the wall for a
few hours and smoke whatever he can get his hands on rather than headbang. And
headbanging is where it's at!! Headbanging is ALL THERE IS!! What I'm getting
at is that this diverging of musical paths can erode any "familiar turf" which
may have existed between musical peers.
Any "familiar turf" music in line with DT that I play for these guys has no
effect, neither Black Jester nor Fates Warning nor Fear Factory. I even tried
Tiamat, but all I got was a "whoooah dude, that guy must eat WILD HONEY to
sing like that!" Where people's interests go *after* hearing DT is a random
process. I myself went to the METAL side. I went on to discover Fear Factory,
Machine Head, Tiamat, Testament, White Zombie, and Pantera. (I know, those
guys were all around before 1993, but hey, I'm slow.)
> these days, what i find most fulfilling is the truly creative and original
diverse
> stuff and leading the way is the main man, Devin Townsend. In just over 20
> months, this guy has released Strapping Young Lad "City," Ocean Machine
> "Biomech," and "INFINITY," each in their own right some of the "purest"
music
> I have ever heard.
I've branched out, and no longer listen to ONLY shred guitar music or ONLY
heavy heavy metal metal, and there was a time (about two years) where I
listened to nothing BUT those two genres. Today I think drum programming is
okay and I don't mind major-key stuff or occasional scratching or other
effects - 311, The Hunger, Nine Inch Nails - or metal with programming, such
as Second Coming. (I highly recommend Second Coming) For a good smack away
from the prog-metal scene, check out Rasputina or Varttina. Varttina hails
from Finland, but they're nothing like the other Finnish groups mentioned on
this digest...
Now a question: is it true that Fear Factory is or will be touring with
Monster Magnet and Rob Zombie??
Bafu Vai
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 22:57:55 -0500
From: "Thomas Forcier" <thomas.o.forcier@worldnet.att.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Stagnation, etc.
Message-ID: <19981125040258.KKGO24314@239157822worldnet.att.net>
Hey,
Gee, how could I not see that coming a mile away from Bafu... Silly me. :)
To all those who scoff at the "less is more" idea, I highly recommend an
album called Beyond the Missouri Sky. If you think less can't be more, this
album would, I hope, enlighten your perspective.
As for the state of Ptacek's listening habits, I hear you my bruddah...
For about five years it was a steady progression for me: early teens I was
a pop-loving bastard, then I found the wonder that was glam, moved on to
straight metal, then happened upon the prog world. Then about a year and a
half ago, it all came to a grinding halt. Metal and prog music waned in my
interests when I began to explore the jazz world. Since then, my tastes
have expanded greatly to include almost any style of music (rap and country
still don't appeal to me though). When I buy CDs, I don't think about how
trendy they are any more. For instance, at first I was hesitant to get the
first Collective Soul album due to their mainstream nature, now I scoff at
myself for actually thinking that.
Take this very evening for example. I headed to the City of Circuits with
the sole intention of getting Metallica's Garage, Inc. I picked up the last
copy of the CD from the shelf, but found myself wanting to peruse the store
a bit. After a quick walk through of the jazz section, I instead left with
Scofield's A Go-Go and the most recent Brad Mehldau. My mood had changed
between when I left the comic store and arrived at Circuit City, all of
five minutes. However, as I was flipping channels on TV tonight (I won't
admit to what I was watching), I happened upon a Metallica MTV special and
was delighted to be diverted by metal for 30 minutes.
I agree with the person who said its not stagnation, its maturation. Your
mind is seeking to experience new and original concepts in music, and that
simply cannot be done if you pigeonhole your interests into a "genre".
Oh, and did you ever get that jazz box Chris? :)
Stodgers
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 23:52:57 EST
From: Nshsunsfan@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Happy Thanksgiving Jammers
Message-ID: <3ec8f429.365b8d29@aol.com>
I only have 1 1/2 weeks worth of digests to catch up on, so, I am sure this
has been covered. . .
Happy Thanksgiving YtseJammer.
Laters,
________Nikki____________________
~~Through Nature's Inflexible Grace~~
~~I'm Learning to Live -- J. Myung~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:00:00 EST
From: Ibanez506@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: "Less is more" words of wisdom from Neil Peart
Message-ID: <e95a5d56.365b8ed0@aol.com>
In a message dated 11/24/98 1:55:14 PM Central Standard Time, ytsejam@ax.com
writes:
<< You really don't get it do you?
Do all drummers have to be impressing? I bet at least half of you prog
drummers out there freak out when they're asked to lay down a solid 4/4...
Maybe that's why most of you guys don't appreciate Metallica anymore. Ever
heard of "Less Is More"? I guess simple is hard for you....
It's what the music sounds like that counts, not how impessive the musicians
play, God damnit.....
>>
Neil Peart says, and I quote: " Keep It Simple Stupid, don't you really love
to hear that? K.I.S.S to me that often leads to L.O.V.E, Leave Out Virtually
Everything. So that your not allowed to be creative or to add somthing to the
bands music because you're the lowly drummer the lowly timekeeper. Seems to
me that what we should be looking for is M.U.S.I.C., Make Up Somthing
Interesting and Complementary. Serve the song, serve the music, but by all
means try to be creative and imaginative in how you affect it. Simplicity can
be beautiful, complexity can be beautiful and equally, both can also be not
beautiful. In the hands of a master simplicity can be a gorgeous thing. If you
think of drummers like Steve Gadd or Bernard Purdie when they play somthing
simply, it's with the conviction, the confidence, the knowledge and ability of
a master who consequently it, a, communicates itself in quite a different way
from sombody who's playing somthing simple because it's all they know. And
those people, equally will be likely to say that (in *dude* voice) "hey man,
less is more". But really less is only and always less".
And one more brilliant quote from Neil:
"My take on all of this is that the apprentice takes somthing easy and makes
it look difficult while the master takes somthing impossible and makes it look
easy".
I got these quotes from the Neil Peart instructional video "A Work In
Progress" it's worth everybodys while to see this and learn a bit about his
philosiphies on music.
A lowly *chick* bass player,
Juli
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:02:20 -0500
From: Steven Zebrowski <szebro1@ds1.GL.UMBC.EDU>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Less is WHAT? :)
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19981125000220.007b7e50@pop.gl.umbc.edu>
>> "Less is more" is what people who suck say.
>>
>> Steve Z
>
>WOOHOO!
>
>This takes the award for the single most ignorant, pigheaded >statement
I've ever heard on the 'jam!
maybe, and of course it's a bit oversimplified, but I stand by it.
Usually, people who use the "less is more" copout are people who think that
they are superior to complex forms of music and musicians with good
technique. These people are usually the people who are too lazy or
unmotivated to, oh I dunno, PRACTICE!
Less is more - SOMETIMES. performing simple music all the time makes your
music just as meaningless as performing music that never strays from the
ultra-complex. Magna Carta bands come to mind. So do bands like Bush.
Amazing the similarities.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 00:39:44 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Pink Floyd / Jazz-metal
Message-ID: <365B9820.DEE7EB2A@home.com>
Mr. CyberDuke said:
> I just wanted to say that "Pink Floyd - Comfortably Numb" is one awesome
> song!
Agreed.
> One of the most emotional guitar solos I ever heard! David Gilmour might
> not be Steve Vai but he can surely write amazing, deep emotinal solos! I
> love 'em!
Absolutely! God do I ever LOVE listening to Gilmour play...... it's
still such a fucking amazingly emotional experience for me!
> And The Wall is also one of the bes concept albums!
Right again! Hey.... you're 3 for 3! :)
I think it's time for me to watch the PF "Pulse" video again soon......
----and Younis Hilal said: > Often, I have to keep an eye out > for metal musicians who suddenly decide they wanna do some jazz, or > jazz artists who get bitten by the metal bug. (Note: Speaking of "jazz > metal", Rogerio Brito mentioned a band called Echosilence a few digests back. > Cynic fans, do yourself a favor and check them out:
This sounds pretty interesting to me. Could somebody suggest some bands in this jazz-metal vein to me. Preferably ones with clean vocals though (I've heard Cynic has death-vox, so I don't think I'd like them).
Thanks,
- Joe D. jdeangelo@home.com Magellan on ICQ (# 1872723), and IRC
************************************************************************** Just another Sunday morning / Seen my diary on the newsstand Seems we've lost the truth to quicksand / It's a shame no one is praying 'Cause these voices in my heard keep sayin'... / "Love, just don't stare Reveal the Word when you're supposed to" - Dream Theater "Voices" (lyrics by John Petrucci) **************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:03:52 -0500 From: "Chris Milne" <cmilne@wam.umd.edu> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: dream theater making movies now??? Message-ID: <000701be1839$60bc2ca0$ac300318@hwrd1.md.home.com>
found this amusing....
http://www.dvdempire.com/Exec/movie.asp?movie_id=3854&userid=24303412403266
take a look at the studio who did this movie...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:37:37 -0500 From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Therion etc. Message-ID: <365BA5B1.3C30C15F@home.com>
> >but I'd also > >like to know about bands with music similiar to In This Room by The 3rd > >and the Mortal, or Omnio by In the Woods (any suggestions mr.Gallop?).
Phil Carter said: > Dunno about Neil, but if you haven't already gotten everything by Therion > (excellent dark metal with a full choir and orchestra, plus great vocals) > then you must do so now; "Theli" and "Vovin" are both must-haves.
First of all..... I totally agree with Phil here about Therion. Both "Theli" and "Vovin" are really fantastic (especially "Theli"). To that list I'd also add "A'Arab Zaraq Lucid Dreaming", it's also rather good - it contains a few Therion originals, plus some cover songs (some Maiden and Priest among others), plus a few straight classical pieces (no guitar/drums/bass).
Here's question number one: Has anybody (Phil?) heard their "Lepacca Kliffoth" album? Any good? Is it very death-ish?
Here's question number TWO: Are the above bands (3rd and the Mortal, In the Woods, etc.) at all like Therion? If not, what are they like?
Thanks!
NP: Metallica "Am I Evil?" from Garage Inc. :-D
- Joe D. jdeangelo@home.com Magellan on ICQ (# 1872723), and IRC
************************************************************************** Just another Sunday morning / Seen my diary on the newsstand Seems we've lost the truth to quicksand / It's a shame no one is praying 'Cause these voices in my heard keep sayin'... / "Love, just don't stare Reveal the Word when you're supposed to" - Dream Theater "Voices" (lyrics by John Petrucci) **************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:39:40 EST From: Portnoy420@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Fwd: Confirmed DT Holiday Shows Message-ID: <3e18ccd.365ba62c@aol.com>
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]From: Portnoy420@aol.com Return-path: <Portnoy420@aol.com> To: ytseclubs@westend.com, Portnoy420@aol.com Subject: Confirmed DT Holiday Shows Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 01:38:01 EST Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Hi Everybody.... Well here are the confirmed dates for this year's holiday shows.......
An Intimate Evening with Dream Theater: Up Close & Personal
Sat 26 Dec Old Bridge NJ Birch Hill 201-939-5454 Sun 27 Dec Philadelphia PA Electric Factory 215-569-9400 Mon 28 Dec New Haven CT Toad's Place 203-562-5694 Tue 29 Dec New York NY Irving Plaza 212-610-2417 Wed 30 Dec Poughkeepsie NY The Chance 914-471-2490
The shows will be "pseudo-Unplugged" (ala the fan club show in Rotterdam) In other words....Don't plan on hearing Pull Me Under!!!!!
There will be no opening act. Instead, We will be showing excerpts of "5 Years in a LIVEtime" with additional rare video outtakes from the Portnoy Archieves.....
C-y'all then!! Happy Holidays,
Mike Portnoy
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4454 **************************
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