YTSEJAM Digest 4465
Today's Topics:
1) rhapsody cat. no.
by Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
2) MMW/Scofield (NDTC)
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4464
by AyameYuki@aol.com
4) OAN Records
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
5) Re: subjectivity, blah, blah, blah
by "TSM" <tonimaki@dlc.fi>
6) Little boy...
by "Nicolas M. Rincon" <tabo-sabalero@usa.net>
7) Re: OAN Records
by Edward Polzin <polzin@uiuc.edu>
8) Re: SONG OF THE MILLENIUM...yeah.
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
9) Get Madsman talking about subjectivity again... I dare you
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
10) The Darkest of Winters
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
11) Paganini
by Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
12) DT Shows
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
13) George Bellas
by Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
14) Questions about Superior (NDTC)
by Bernd Basmer <basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
15) Re: Subjectivity, blah blah blah
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 00:52:39 +0100 (CET)
From: Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
To: Majesty <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: rhapsody cat. no.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.05.9811300050480.27657-100000@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
Just a quickie...
Does anyone have the catalogue Rhapsody's Legendary Tales? I can't seem to
find anywhere on the net (not even on LMP's website)...
Reply to me privately pls.
Tnx
Cheers
Zaphod
==============================================================================
Peter Geerts *QUOTE*
zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be "HELP!" (The Beatles)
ICQ: 13122363
Second Year's Political Sciences Student, Leuven University, Belgium
President JVS Orion Mechelen Youth Astronomers Club, Belgium
==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 16:15:56 PST
From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: MMW/Scofield (NDTC)
Message-ID: <19981130001556.3491.qmail@hotmail.com>
>With all the talk of Jazz/Prog/Rock lately, I was listening to one >of
my favorite Jazz bands the other day, Medeski, Martin and Wood, >and I
was thinking about where to draw the line between Jazz and >Prog. Some
jazz has so many of the characteristics of good >progressive music
(complex beats, intricate instrument playing). >Where do you guys draw
the line between Prog and Jazz? What groups >cross that line every once
in a while (either way)?
point the first: since prog necessarily means rock of some sort, and
rock and roll has only been around since oh say the 19950s, shouldn't
you say that prog shares many of the characteristics of jazz? have some
respect for your favortie musical form's elders! :)
point the second: one of the more interesting albums released this year
has Medeseki Martin and Wood playing back-up for John Scofield.....name
of the disc is "A go-go" (or something like that), and it's really cool,
perhaps a more "mature" version of what MMW might end up like in aboutu
20 years......you might want to check that out, Josh (and other MMW/jazz
fans)
partha
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 19:17:36 EST
From: AyameYuki@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4464
Message-ID: <ca9104c5.3661e420@aol.com>
<A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/index.html">artsymayhem</A>
<A HREF="http://www.egroups.com/list/theaternow/">THeater Now</A> hey guys.
these are my sorta new mailing lists. just like themirror that lisa managese.
( you can also find themirror at my site too ) . ive got an amazing total of
7 hits so far. lets see how the competition does :) happy posting :)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 17:20:31 -0800
From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: OAN Records
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981129172031.0091a5c0@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
Could someone send me the website for Open All Night Records? Either to
the jam or me personally, both preferrably.
Thanks.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 03:20:45 +0200
From: "TSM" <tonimaki@dlc.fi>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: subjectivity, blah, blah, blah
Message-ID: <199811300127.DAA05436@elf.dlc.fi>
Jason Braswell:
> Why is the absolute subjectivity of aesthetic value always the
>starting point for any conversation about it? It seems to have achieved
>the same axiomatic status as "I exist" or something.
It's because almost every bloody thing on this godforsaken planet is
subjective. Take a moment to think about it. Music, art, culture, history,
ethics, aesthetics, values and even time and place are subjective.
>Objectivity in
>aesthetics is no more odd than objectivity in ethics. Of course, most
>people will retort that that is a crock as well, but they almost always
>recant when they realize that such a view makes Hitler and Mother
>Theresa play on the same ground. Such wildly subjective and nihilistic
>views are simply counterintuitive, and they don't jive with the way that
>we speak of ethics and aesthetics.
The very fact that we argue about aesthetics and etchics should be enough
proof of the subjectivity of these things. But if it isn't allow me to make
it clearer. In the paragraph above you are making an obvious reference:
Hitler=bad, Mother Theresa=good. Well, I say there are no such things as
good and bad. There are only point of views. I personally see Hitler as a
monster and despise him almost in every possible way. A point of view. Some
shit-for-brains-neo-nazi sees him as a hero. Another point of view. The
fact is that all of us, Hitler, the shit-for-brains, I and even you,
messire, are products of our genes, society, culture, our friends, our
enemies etc. etc. From the moment you start learning things as a baby you
are being shaped into what you are, and you make your statements according
to what you have picked up on the way. We, you and I that is, speak of
Hitler as an evil person because we are comparing his ideas and values to
our own. We are doing this all the time in our lives. If you truly were
objective where would you compare Hitler's ideas to? No human is Tabula
Rasa, you know. We can say that Hitler was a monster from our subjective
point of view. We can form opinions, change minds, argue, agree, disagree,
value and revalue our/others's lives etc. because we're being subjective
all the time. If we examined something objectively we all should agree on
it (whatever "it" was), we wouldn't have an alternative. It wouldn't make
any sense to argue because everybody could see how "it" really was. To this
day mankind has never wholeheartedly agreed on something. In example from
my point of view Mother Theresa is pretty fucking (pardon my French) far
from a saint.
>Value-talk is just the same as
>normal talk, and, therefore, the onus of proof is on the subjectivist.
Pish-tosh my good man. This here didn't make sense at all. I could just as
well say that the onus of proof is on you because it's Monday. Anyway, I've
done my part, so now it's your turn.
>People are all to ready to embrace subjectivism of all sorts because
>society is still dealing with the horrors of racial discrimination and
>what-not, and that, of course, was partly due to a misplaced sense of
>superiority, but the badness of certain values does not entail the
>badness of values altogether, and it should not be considered the
>beginning ground for any discussion.
> jason
In my opinion "subjectivism" doesn't equal "no values". It only means that
you acknowledge that your values and opinions are not necessarily the only
and/or right ones. All you can really do is to live by your values and form
your own opinions on things and hope that someone else thinks in a same
way.
This mail is highly subjective and opinionated. Act according to it. And to
anyone who wishes to continue the debate; Methinks this is not a right
place for an ethicsjam. You have my e-mail address.
------------ tonimaki@dlc.fi ---------------
| There are three kinds of people; |
| Those who can count and those who can't. |
--------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:41:32
From: "Nicolas M. Rincon" <tabo-sabalero@usa.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Little boy...
Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19981129234132.225f8828@pop.netaddress.com>
To Graham Boyle:
Do you think you're funny, boy? You're right, inside the CD are the
lyrics... but i'm a 'copymaster', something is wrong? :o)
Cheers to all!!! (and ANOTHER kiss to my dear... Niria, jaja).
Nico... THE argentinian Ytsejammer.
\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
+-----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo-----------+
| Nicolas M. Rincon |
| e-mail: tabo-sabalero@usa.net |
| ICQ: 11862235 Nick: Tabo |
| Santa Fe, Argentina |
| "Seize the day..." |
| Check: http://www.raweb.com/colon |
+---------------------Oooo----------+
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 20:50:24 -0600
From: Edward Polzin <polzin@uiuc.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: OAN Records
Message-ID: <366207F0.DF735AA1@uiuc.edu>
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Mezzanine/9326/oan.htm
Jon Kretschmer wrote:
> Could someone send me the website for Open All Night Records? Either to
> the jam or me personally, both preferrably.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jon
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:36:19 -0600 (CST)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: SONG OF THE MILLENIUM...yeah.
Message-ID: <19981129222452141@ix.netcom.com>
Hell, I think its cool enough that in the top 25, DT is the only band with
two songs (ACOS and Metro). Im sure that voting for ACOS is a wise bet
now, its already at #2, but Im sure everyone who voted for it will smack their
heads into the wall once they hear Metropolis part 2. Hehehehe. Cute
popularity contest, but its very cool to see DT at the top of it. (since when
could Hansuck make the top 10 of anything, cept maybe for top ten girl
performers of all time ;-), not even.
Matt
=====================================================
"A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct
will flush your mind not a trend. Go against
right down the drain." the grain until the end."
-Dream Theater -Metallica
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:36:54 -0600
From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Get Madsman talking about subjectivity again... I dare you
Message-ID: <000c01be1c12$c245dca0$25739c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
>From: "jason braswell" <funkbreath@hotmail.com>
(someone else)
>>First of all, music is SUBJECTIVE, so a Top 5 is just OPENING yourself
I included this, because I wanted to say that there is nothing wrong
with making a top 5 list (though NOT ON THIS LIST) of anything, regardless
of subjectivity. Why can't one have one's own list of favorites and make it
public? Subjectivity doesn't preclude preferences and tastes.
>Objectivity in aesthetics is no more odd than objectivity in ethics.
It is not at all the same. You can be a moral absolutist and not an
aesthetic absolutist. I have put a couple years into studying philosophy at
the college level, and this isn't the first time this idea has come up.
It's hogwash. Having absolute ethical values (as almost all religions
preach -- even the LaVey school of Satanism) is necessary in order to have a
functional society. I can get into the 10 main faults of moral relativism,
but you're not going to argue against me anyways there.
Aesthetics on the other hand are measured through the senses and value
judgement is made by the individual. We don't all see colors the same, nor
do we hear notes the same, or frequencies (like how I can't handle the
frequencies that come out of Billy Corgan's facial anus) etc. We are FORCED
to judge things differently unless we prefer to simply not judge them at all
(go with the flow and buy the new Smashmouth album, selling it to a used cd
shop a month later when it's uncool).
>recant when they realize that such a view makes Hitler and Mother
>Theresa play on the same ground. Such wildly subjective and nihilistic
>views are simply counterintuitive, and they don't jive with the way that
>we speak of ethics and aesthetics.
I believe that everyone is relatively "nihilistic" (if you want to call
it that) when it comes to music. Your cd collection revolves around your
tastes, not your mother's tastes, not your music theory professor's tastes,
etc. That's the furthest thing from counterintuitive. Ethics and
Aesthetics are two seperate fields of philiosophy. Intuitively, one might
conclude that this is because they differ enough to require their own
fields. What applies to ethics does not necessarily apply to any other
field of philosophy.
>Value-talk is just the same as
>normal talk, and, therefore, the onus of proof is on the subjectivist.
This doesn't make sense in any language. If you believe that music can
be judged as an absolute, measurable phenomenon, then the "onus of proof" is
on you to present a scale by which we can all come to agreement with your
bad absolute self.
>People are all to ready to embrace subjectivism of all sorts because
>society is still dealing with the horrors of racial discrimination and
>what-not, and that, of course, was partly due to a misplaced sense of
>superiority, but the badness of certain values does not entail the
>badness of values altogether, and it should not be considered the
>beginning ground for any discussion.
Indeed, but you mix--to a dangerous degree--your philosophy. A
misunderstanding of ethical values or a misplaced or unbalanced sense of
superiority is a bad place to start a musical discussion. Subjectivity, on
the other hand, is a relevant and logical topic to come up within such a
context.
Jason, if you want us to play by your rules, you're going to have to set
them out as an absolute standard. And as your rules are not the same rules
that we play by in our appreciation of an aesthetic (music), if you do push
them as an absolute, then they are merely a "misplaced sense of superiority"
to us, as they are subjective in nature.
Someone else:
>actually, yngwie derived his chops from a 17th century violinist by the
>name of paganini.. he studied his arpagios and melody line chop for chop
>and converted them to guitar.. :)
What Yngwie says now differs greatly from what Yngwie said in his Mike
Varney Spotlight from before he was famous. In said column, he names
DiMeola (from whom he got most of technical ideas) and Uli Jon Roth (from
whom he gained the rest of his techniques and MUCH of his phrasing). Yngwie
doesn't sound like Paganini. It's just a cool person to be able to compare
yourself with... Paganini was a great showman. Yngwie's music is mostly
what Bafu calls "neo-Baroque" whereas to sound like Paganini, one would
sound like a "neo-Romantic." There is much more similarity between Bach and
Yngwie or Mozart (a Classical composer, for anyone who wanted to bitch that
I used the term Baroque) and Yngwie than there is between Paganini and
Yngwie.
For Ygnwie to play the same arpeggios as Paganini is only intuitive, as
most of those arpeggios are major, minor, and diminished triad arpeggios,
the same ones that Bach used, and the same ones that DiMeola and Roth use.
Yngwie changed the face of shred guitar, no doubt, but let's give credit
where it's due.
Vinnie:
>with her he never played guitar again :0 One of the caprices was adapted
>(or so I'm told) to "Eugene's bag of tricks" by Steve Vai from the movie
>Crossroads (Ralph Macchio's character plays it in the movie at the end).
The music in question is actually a violin Caprice, from the famous "24
Capricci"
> And wasn't Paganini 18th or 19th Century?
Yes. 1782-1840.
>Me thinks I might be checking out Greg Howe after hearing him do the
>bass and a coupla guitar lines on a CD i just got from an Indian
>(Berklee trained, but we all know what that means...or doesn't
>mean....anyway) guitarist named Prashant Aswani.....
Prashant is a bad-ass too! You GOTTA get some Howe though!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 21:38:51 -0600 (CST)
From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: The Darkest of Winters
Message-ID: <199811292227116334@ix.netcom.com>
I was wondering if anyone could tell me where (or if anyone has)
The Darkest of Winters written out for guitar with the actual music
staff above it. Im trying to learn this one run in it (where its just JP
and Portnoy playing) and I cant figure out the division of the notes
to play it to a metronome. A scan will do if anyone has one. Thanks
Matt
=====================================================
"A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct
will flush your mind not a trend. Go against
right down the drain." the grain until the end."
-Dream Theater -Metallica
=====================================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:12:21 +1000
From: Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Paganini
Message-ID: <3661FF05.E6374FB6@winshop.com.au>
Vince queried:
> And wasn't Paganini 18th or 19th Century?
Well, a bit of both :) Born 1782, Died 1840.
I don't know whether he gave up guitar after his relationship ended, but
it was at his lover's persuasion that he take up guitar and doing so, he
wrote 12 sonatas for violin and guitar.
Also, due to his frightening displays of virtuosity and strange, lanky
physique, Paganini was often thought to be in league with the devil (or
something to that effect). Very cool.... :)
Czech-ya,
Luke.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 23:59:07 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: DT Shows
Message-ID: <3662261B.DD76378A@home.com>
Greetings to all those in Ytseland.
I'll keep this brief.
I'm thinking of heading out east (I'm from Detroit) to check out some
(read: as many as possible!) of the late December DT shows. I'd like to
get together and hang out with some Jammers, both as far as going to the
shows, and just generally hanging out/fucking around. I mean, I don't
know anybody out there, and I don't feel like heading way out there to
be bored out of my mind with nothing to do (except catch the shows, of
course).
So if anybody is interested in getting together at all, please E-Mail me
as soon as possible so that I can figure out what the deal is, and if
I'm gonna go (I need to decide ASAP.... if I do go, I need to make work
arrangements in the very near future).
Also, if anybody could tell me a bit about the proximity between the
shows, and where would be a good "centrally located" place to stay to
catch the maximum amount of shows - any info would be appreciated.
By the way, is there any big "Ytsegathering" planned or anything?
Thanks, I hope to hear from some of you,
- Joe D.
jdeangelo@home.com
Magellan on ICQ (# 1872723), and IRC
**************************************************************************
Just another Sunday morning / Seen my diary on the newsstand
Seems we've lost the truth to quicksand / It's a shame no one is praying
'Cause these voices in my heard keep sayin'... / "Love, just don't stare
Reveal the Word when you're supposed to"
- Dream Theater "Voices" (lyrics by John Petrucci)
**************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 22:12:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephen Dedalus <mattb@mbay.net>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: George Bellas
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.981129221016.11001C-100000@otter.mbay.net>
Greetings,
I just recently got ahold of George Bellas' Turn of the Melenium.
Though I enjoy Yngwie, I thought he had mastered the art of tasteless
shred. I was wrong. Bellas can out-play Yngwie in terms of technique,
and he does it every note of the CD. It's utterly BORING!!!!!!!!! Yes,
it's awesome shred, but to me, there's no emotion at all. Should anyone
still like to get ahold of this CD, I'll part with it for a measely $5.
Be well.
Matt B
============================================================================
ATTENTION! ATTENTION! ATTENTION!
Guitarist in the Santa Cruz/Monterey area of California seeks
innovative, experimental, technical, and fun-loving musicians to
create works of art and share them with the public. Enquire if
interested.
mattb@mbay.net
=================================================================================
"With Man gone, will there be hope for Gorilla?... With Gorilla gone,
will there be hope for Man?" (Daniel Quin)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 08:14:12 +0100
From: Bernd Basmer <basmer@med-rz.uni-sb.de>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Questions about Superior (NDTC)
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19981130081412.00809590@krzsun.med-rz.uni-sb.de>
Hi!
As there were a few questions about our band, I jump out of the
lurker's hole... :)
>Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1998 15:03:47 +0100
>From: Sebastjan Videc <sebastjan.videc@uni-mb.si>
> Now about Superior. Bernd can you answer me if you detune your guitar in
>some songs on Behind? And if so, how?
>Thanks.
Yes, we have 2 tunings on Behind. There is the standard tuning and
the D-tuning. The D-tuning means that we tune down the guitars to
D-G-C-F-A-D.
On Younique we have another tuning for some songs. Tuned down to:
A-D-G-C-F-A. So it's the same tuning as the D-tuning, only with the
deep A. :)
There was another question about the guitar sound on Behind and who
produced the CD. Well, we produced it ourselves and I'm still quite
satisfied with the sound. :) I think though, that the sound on
Younque is MUCH better because it is somehow more warm but still
very heavy. It is more direct.
Bye
Bernd
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bernd Basmer
Guitar - Superior
For info about Superior have a look at:
http://www.fine.de/superior
http://www.truemetal.org/superior
http://www.noiserecords.com/superior
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're good, you solve your problems.
If you're better you have none.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 01:25:09 -0500
From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Subjectivity, blah blah blah
Message-ID: <3611CEC5.A7C@bellsouth.net>
Hmm...Haven't posted in awhile, in fact, i've missed reading a few Jams,
but this message just stuck out for some reason...
Hehe, I'm sure I'll get flamed for this just like I get flamed for
everything I say, but could you please spare the neo-psycho-sociological
lingo(makes no sense, I know) and talk in English??? Jesus, a man just
states his top 5 guitarists, then people all start talking about it all
being just opinion, which we all know it is, fuss at the guy for ranking
people even though it's part of our culture to always place things in
order of favorites or "best", then, we get someone to fuss at those
people with some mumbo-jumbo about racism, hitler, and mother
theresa,and how aesthetics is the same as ethics(don't know WHERE this
came from...someone had a goofy philosophy professor) damn, did I miss
something??? hehe
>> 5. Eddie van Halen ( face it, he invented modern rock guitar )
>> 4. Joe Satriani ( 'cos whatever EVH forgot, Satch didn't )
>> 3. Jimmy Page ( ...I mean, where do you begin? )
>> 2. John Petrucci ( the perfect mix of 5, 4, and 1 )
>> 1. David Gilmour ( the sound...the phrasing...the material...)
>
>First of all, music is SUBJECTIVE, so a Top 5 is just OPENING yourself
Why is the absolute subjectivity of aesthetic value always the
starting point for any conversation about it? It seems to have achieved
the same axiomatic status as "I exist" or something. Objectivity in
aesthetics is no more odd than objectivity in ethics. Of course, most
people will retort that that is a crock as well, but they almost always
recant when they realize that such a view makes Hitler and Mother
Theresa play on the same ground. Such wildly subjective and nihilistic
views are simply counterintuitive, and they don't jive with the way that
we speak of ethics and aesthetics. Value-talk is just the same as
normal talk, and, therefore, the onus of proof is on the subjectivist.
People are all to ready to embrace subjectivism of all sorts because
society is still dealing with the horrors of racial discrimination and
what-not, and that, of course, was partly due to a misplaced sense of
superiority, but the badness of certain values does not entail the
badness of values altogether, and it should not be considered the
beginning ground for any discussion.
jason
-- Geaux Tigers!!!! http://www.angelfire.com/la/qryche/index.html "I Know If I Try, I'll Get Where I'm Going/ Keeping My Eyes On the Sky" -"Some People Fly" by Queensryche------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4465 **************************
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