YTSEJAM Digest 4360
Today's Topics:
1) MIDI - NDTC
by "Gilberto Bressan Junior" <gbressanjr@sti.com.br>
2) Fan Club
by Todd <twwilso@students.uiuc.edu>
3) ray gillen
by Pat Daugherty <Pat.Daugherty@trw.com>
4) Famous Italians....
by "Jason Birzer" <Longshot@pressroom.com>
5) The Portnoy Incident
by Dave Ware <dware@walker.com>
6) Jazz geetars and Mike Portnoy
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
7) Sorry, but I had to do this (time and counting... skip if you will)
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
8) I Think Someone Owes Mike Portnoy a Public Apology!!
by NikBrooks@aol.com
9) Marillion USA Album Release (Radiation)
by NikBrooks@aol.com
10) Re: CDNOW discounts...
by Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx>
11) Things that kick my ass (Was: MP and Supergroups)
by "Michael Patrick" <civilwar@my-dejanews.com>
12) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4359
by schnapster@juno.com (Dale R Newberry)
13) Settling for third-rate gear.
by "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com>
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:00:03 -0300
From: "Gilberto Bressan Junior" <gbressanjr@sti.com.br>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: MIDI - NDTC
Message-ID: <002501bdb4a7$7fafaec0$1057d3c8@escritorio>
Hi folks...
I know that the Jam is packed with guitarists...is there any good fella who
has or know the URL for Vinnie Moore midi files ???
I've been searching the web for about a week, and I found nothing but bios,
samples and tabs...
Thanks for reading ! Sorry for the NDTC..
Gilberto
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:28:39 -0500 (CDT)
From: Todd <twwilso@students.uiuc.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Fan Club
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.981021122654.13550A-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
I have a question that maybe someone could answer. I have been in the fan
club for the past 2 years now and I know that it is about time that I
renew my subscription, but I haven't received any notice in the mail like
before. I was wondering if we still need to renew subsriptions and who
and where to send the check to? Thanks.
Todd
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:35:57 -0400
From: Pat Daugherty <Pat.Daugherty@trw.com>
To: Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: ray gillen
Message-ID: <362E1B7D.F58ABE2F@trw.com>
> Ray Gillen Died of Cancer...
I heard it was AIDs, but does it matter?
> FYI - He also did vocals for 2 or 3 tunes on Goerge Lynch's solo project a few
> years back-
He is also on a Black Sabbath album that was never released since they
dumped his vocals for Ian Gillan or someone like that. I guess it is
available in boot form.
NP:Queensryche-Rage For Order
-- |----------------------------------------------------------------| | Pat Daugherty Email: Pat.Daugherty@trw.com | | Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html | |================================================================| | "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater | |----------------------------------------------------------------|------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:50:34 -0400 From: "Jason Birzer" <Longshot@pressroom.com> To: "The Jam" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Famous Italians.... Message-ID: <001401bdfd1b$4dc4cf50$905d64c7@jbirzer_dev.idshq.com>
>Anyone happen to know the name of the guy who invented the standard of >moveable type for musical notation? (Hint: he's Italian, and on this list >the name should be right on the tip of your tongues.)
Bafu Vai? :^)
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:53:22 -0500 From: Dave Ware <dware@walker.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: The Portnoy Incident Message-ID: <82CD0BD64E68D211BDA00060975B3ACF033034@BHAM-XCHG1.immpower.com>
Hey,
Major congrats to the dumbfuck who slagged Portnoy for attempting to stay active, stretch his mind and musical abilities, work with interesting people and give us new and exciting music....
Duh,
Dave (a UK jammer - now in Alabama).
Ps - The petition for the unreleased songs was an off-the-cuff remark :)
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:11:41 -0500 From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Jazz geetars and Mike Portnoy Message-ID: <001701bdfd1e$42913260$5b739c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
>week, so who am I not to chip in? First, I would like to respond to Mr. >Ptacek, who was in search of a decent hollow-body jazz guitar. I'll say one >thing off the bat: have you checked the newsgroups and Harmony Central? >Reviews and input from theses sources have helped me greatly on similar >issues. That being said, and your spending limit hitting $2000 (I assume >you're talking "new" only?), I think it either has to be the Ibanez PM or a >Yamaha AE.
Actually, Used is just fine, but it's interesting that of ALL the new axes out there, these are the only two I'm considering currently (have to check out Heritage a little more) I'll check HCentral today. Thanks.
> What I want from a head: min. 75 watts, two channels, reverb, gain, master >volume. That should do it! I'm pretty sure Marshall is out of the question >due to price. And I'd rather go half-stack than combo, but that doesn't >mean I'd ignore suggestions to that end. Thanks!
Here's my honest opinion, since I've done exactly what you're doing, many times, and ALWAYS lost for it. You have to not settle. You have to just keep stacking bux, even if it's going to take several more months. Find the amp that you WANT and figure out how to get it. Every time you trade stuff in, you lose a LOT of money. $700 isn't gonna get you your dream head and a good cab (possibly one or the other, though). Carvin or Laney might have something close to that range that would kick for you, but since you are serious about guitar, and have been at it a while, why not start searching for the right amp, instead of "the amp I can get now." I saved up and got a TriAxis and Simul Class. I was very happy (and then very disappointed, and then I read the manual about 2 months ago, and I'm super happy again). Now I have tone well beyond my means... I don't know how I came up with the bux... I just did after a while. I am far from "well-off" (college student). What I WOULD check out, are the new Laney amps, and some Mesa combos (you can use a speaker out on the amp and hook in a 4 X 12 if you need it, but these things are LOUD on their own.) I'd be saving up for a Bogner if I was on the market now.
>I thought the fans enjoyed and appreciated all of the time I put in for them!! >: )
The Dream Theater fans don't appreciate anything. We simply demand it, throwing band members into fits of suicidal depression, until they realize that they can screw us majestically by just intentionally waiting 5 years between albums-throwing US into fits of suicidal depression and petition making. :)
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:22:37 -0500 From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Sorry, but I had to do this (time and counting... skip if you will) Message-ID: <001801bdfd1f$c8c662a0$5b739c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
>From: Uroborosss@aol.com >1 measure. 4 beats per measure. 3 notes per beat. Twelve notes total. >TWELFTH NOTES.
Bzzzzt. 1 measure. 4 beats per measure. 3 notes per beat. Twelve notes total. Eighth note triplets.
Think about it like this. 4 beats per measure. 4 quarter notes. 8 eighth notes. Replace every 2 of those with 3 notes a little faster than the original eighths. Eighth note triplets, which sounds exactly like what you describe. You're approaching time sigs wrong (presuming they are something they aren't). If it works for you, fine, but you WILL NOT be able to correctly play 11/12 if you see it on a score. You'll need the original recording. The notation system saves the rest of us that trouble, by making things logical. We get a tempo, and a time sig, and go. It's superior in that it allows one to play music that he or she has never heard before.
>44 notes per measure played evenly over 4 beats equals 11th notes. It's that >simple.
No, you're wrong. I just got through this! When Petrucci plays 5 note groups in Erotomania, they're NOT 5th notes. A 5th note would be SLOWER than an 8th! That solo would suck! They're quintuplets, I believe at 16th notes. What you describe is 11 note grouplets. I believe those would be 32nd note <insert proper prefix for 11>-lets because you have greater than 8 per beat. It's not as simple as you say. It's simpler, and more standardized. You have this mistaken notion that notation missed something, and you're coming up with all the loopholes. You're a very bright guy, but you haven't presented a situation yet that can't be easily covered by standard notation. Maybe you've got a Ryu fireball up your sleeve waiting for me, but I think if you looked at standard notation, you'd see that it makes more sense than what you're presenting. There are 12 main notes in Western music. We know we could make more. Some of us do, when we need to. That's not the same as the standard notation system. We know we could create our own systems if we wanted to, but most of us don't because we like being able to share our concepts and music, instead of coming up with a new system altogether that doesn't do anything really "better."
>To say I have to break down everything into 8ths or 16ths (or dotted 16ths) is >tantamount to saying what I type here ought to be translated into Latin >because the basics are where it's at and tradition should never ADVANCE.
No, you're just ignoring what everyone is presenting to you. Every example you've given has been thoroughly explained with standard notation. It's a good system. Try it. You'll be assimilated. I'm stuck here trying to figure out how it would be "advancement" to go to a system that doesn't standardize, and merely accounts for the exact same things with different terminology (and MORE to learn.) Didn't Einstein once say something like "any wise fool can make a simple thing difficult. A genius is someone who can make a difficult thing simple."
>5/12 isn't really a fraction?
He means Time Sigs aren't really a fraction. They aren't. Similar, but not the same. Just because something is in 5/4 doesn't mean it will have ANY quarter notes in it. Just because the music is in 7/8 doesn't mean it's all eighth notes.
>> 5/12 means that there are 5 beats in a measure and the 12th NOTE gets >> the beat.
But this system doesn't give you a way of counting "12th notes" in tempo. And what you ends up being played will merely be written by you or anyone else as 5/8 anways. When you say the 12th note gets the beat, it doesn't mean that we play 5 notes, twice, and on the third time, we accent the second note, does it? That's not time sigs. That's a polyrhythm (in a simple sense). You see, what you'd have going on there is just something like 5/8 and 12/8 at the same time. The top number of your time sig gives you the number of notes that will occur in the measure. If you have 5 notes of equal value, there will be no 12th note (in the sequencial sense, not in the note duration sense) in the measure. The only way to make this make sense is to either make it 12/8, or a polyrhythm. In 12/8, your first measure would be C, D, E, F, G, C, D, E, F, G, C, D and the next measure would be E, F, G, C, D, E, F, G, C, D, E, F and so on. It will get the same effect as what you describe in your trumpet example. And this would be easy to dance to, and wouldn't be cacophony. :) The thing is, in notation, when we say quarter note gets the beat, it doesn't mean that every 4th note gets the beat. It means the beat has a value of a quarter note, at a given tempo. When we say 3/4 we mean 3 beats, each being the value of a quarter note. Quarter note still gets the beat within the measure.
>4/4 piece of music. Tap 4 beats with one hand and in the same length of time >tap 3 with the other, both hands tapping at an even pace. I can do it, I'm >sure you can too. In fact I can wedge 4 beats where there should be 3. Pantera >and Helmet can provide good examples.
That's a polyrhythm. You can't write that polyrhythm as 4/3 or 3/4 in a time sig. It requires 2 seperate time sigs to be written, or it will be a very difficult piece to read with one time sig (probably 3/4). It can be written as a 4 over 3 polyrhythm, but that's not the time sig... it just describes the sound. A time sig would be more concrete than that.
>"Mirror" measure? Can you agree that "the beat" is assigned by the person >doing the listening,
No. It's really assigned by the person playing the beat. The listener only guesses at the beat. It's not in the ear of the beholder... when it was performed, the performer or composer had a specific beat in mind. From a notation aspect, what you get out of it aesthetically is of no consequence. This is the math. This is the letters on the paper.
>listening to the same piece of music, and that just maybe if I wanted to hear >5/12 I could do so?
You can't hear 5/12 as a time sig, because you fail to describe it as a time sig, Bafu. If you could present 5 individual 12th notes, in a logical manner, and then give us the reason why they're 12th notes instead 8th notes or 16th notes, the story might be different, but you're simply talking about polyrhythms and calling them time sigs. The two are not used interchangably.
>to eye. What "doesn't exist" in this case is not 5/12 but your ability to >think in the abstract and make 5/12 possible.
As well as your ability to play 5/12 in a manner that wouldn't be more logical, simpler and more efficient to call 5/8 or 5/16.
>Anyway, the woman said "Forget 7-16, check DIS." and she signaled to some guys >on her right and began what was a repeating pattern of 5 hits, with every 12th >hit being accented by her accompanying conga drummers. Keep in mind, the only >way this was consciously possible was if each drummer, be he/she a 5-hitter or >a 12-hitter, focused ONLY on what he/she was doing and DIDN'T try to work out
THIS IS A POLYRHYTHM! A 5 hitter and a 12 hitter... tada! 2 Rhythms. 1 Polyrhythm. The math is 3rd grade. It's not difficult to think out. It's hard as living fuck to play with one hand hitting 5 and one hitting 12, though people can certainly do it. And people in Africa, even centuries ago, were dancing to rhythms just such as this. That's how we got polyrhythms infused into our culture... with the slave trade (yes, they were done elsewhere, but not to the extent they were in Africa, and they weren't introduced in this manner in America before the slave trade).
>It's not a matter of education or closed-mindedness. There simply ARE no >other notes. It HAS to be a power of 2. Maybe you don't like it, but >that's just the way it is.
It's a matter of standardization so that the music can be written down and played by people other than the original composer/conductor. It's communication. If we're being closed minded, then Bafu is closed minded for not speaking "Urbingadick" the language that I apparently constructed out of gum and lint and four letter f-words.
- Chris
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:16:34 EDT From: NikBrooks@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: I Think Someone Owes Mike Portnoy a Public Apology!! Message-ID: <91e4f82d.362e2502@aol.com>
> To: ytsejam@axnet.net > Cc: skadberg@wicked.stigmata.org > Subject: Supergroups & MP > Message-ID: <9e2e6ac3.362d4bc9@aol.com> > > > I thought the fans enjoyed and appreciated all of the time I put in for them!! > : ) >
Well I would jut like to remind all the Bitche Jerks on the Bitche Jam that, if it wasn't for Mike Portnoy, THERE WOULD BE NO 'JAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ARGH, you guys ALWAYS have to bitch!! You DON'T have a sense of humour and WHY do you ALWAYS go on about things for SOOOOOOOOOO LOOOOOOOOOONG????
Three cheers for Mike Portnoy and EVERYONE in DT, everyone who has EVER played in/with DT and EVERYONE ELSE who has contributed to their side-projects.
I personally CANNOT get enough of DT and any side-project they do.
Mr Portnoy, if there were no side-projects (or DT) I for one would be VERY disillusioned with most of the music scene and would probably GIVE UP!!!
Sorry about all the capital letters but I HAD TO SAY SOMETHING!!!!
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nikki Brooks Musician, music journalist, writer for the DTIFC and champion of ALL MP's side-projects!
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:16:39 EDT From: NikBrooks@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Marillion USA Album Release (Radiation) Message-ID: <2c01813f.362e2507@aol.com>
Hi Guys!!!
Just to change the subject (PLEASE?) here is some news hot from the UK!
I interviewed Steve Rothery of Marillion last night for a British publication and the band's latest album 'Radiation' gets a release in the USA on 27 October, which is the same day that OiAL is released here in the UK.
What with Pete Trewavas contributing to the next Mike Portnoy supergroup (we love you Mike, please keep doing the supergroups), wouldn't it be amazing if Marillion could tour the States with DT next year? The earliest they can get over is February 1999 but, apparently there has already been some talk of this happening!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Watch this space .........
N
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:25:10 -0500 (CDT) From: Mauricio Martinez Villarreal <al769526@mail.mty.itesm.mx> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: CDNOW discounts... Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91.981021131857.64596A@academ07.mty.itesm.mx>
Oddly, i could combine both of those discounts. I had separate orders of 5YiaL and OiaL, each with a discount (only OiaL=20 had the $5 roadie discount)....and 5YiaL had a $2 discount that they=20 promised me for a misunderstanding some time ago. When i saw the URL for=20 the $10 discount, i cancelled BOTH orders, and proceeded to order both of= =20 the items in one order, with the $10 discount. Now, i dont know why this=20 appeared: Discount: $10 Total: Some quantity here Bonus: $5
so, overall, i got the $10 discount and the music trivia discount=20 together. That=B4s $15...... It must have been some kind of an error or something....
Hope this helps
Mauricio On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Joe DeAngelo wrote:
>=20 > I forgot to ask on my last post about the CDNOW discounts. > Has anybody been able to combine the trivia discount with that other $10 > coupon thing? > I tried (last week), and it only let me use the greater of the two (the > $10). >=20 > OK.... thanks > --=20 >=20 > - Joe D. > jdeangelo@home.com=09 > Magellan on ICQ (# 1872723), and IRC chat >=20 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Heaven must be more than this / When angels waken with a kiss > Sacred hearts won't take the pain / But mine will never be the same > He stands before the window / His shadow slowly fading from the wall > And from an ivory tower hears her call / "Let the light surround you"= =20 >=20 > - Dream Theater, from "Surrounded" (lyrics by Kevin Moore) > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:22:43 -0700 From: "Michael Patrick" <civilwar@my-dejanews.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Things that kick my ass (Was: MP and Supergroups) Message-ID: <EJDMODBNONICEAAA@my-dejanews.com>
1. Tyranny - pretty much explains itself.
2. Stabbing Westward's "Darkest Days"
3. Mike Portnoy when I'm out of line. What I said about him was rude, he told me so, and now everything is cool. He's the best...
Mike Patrick mepatric@indy.net
-----== Sent via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----- http://www.dejanews.com/ Easy access to 50,000+ discussion forums
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:51:39 -0500 From: schnapster@juno.com (Dale R Newberry) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4359 Message-ID: <19981021.132544.6478.0.schnapster@juno.com>
>OK.... more Iron Maiden! Iron Maiden?! Excellent! :)
>Well in addition to my "Virtual XI" (commence booing and hissing now), >I just received my copy of "Piece of Mind". After 2 listens, I'm pretty >impressed. YES, I do like it better than VXI, and YES Bruce is >superior to Blaze - no question about that. I still think VXI is pretty cool >too though. I still have yet to hear VXI. I did almost get it for $5 used a couple weeks ago, but I was feeling extra tight with my cash at the moment. Maybe it'll still be there next time I go. I have repeatedly listened to X-Factor, though, and, while I do agree that Bruce is better (IMO) to Blaze, the album did grow on me quite a bit.
>My favorite track so far is "The Trooper". This shit just kicks ass! One of my personal favourite Maiden songs.
>"Die With Your Boots On" is a rocker too! And I was surprised to find >that "To Tame a Land" is based on the Dune books by Frank Herbert! Yeah, it is because of that song that I read Dune (and mostr of the series. I'm still working through it some). The same goes for Rime of the Ancient Mariner (I guess I should thank Maiden for helping me get an A in English Lit. way back in high school :). One of the things I've always dug about Maiden, their literary/historical references in their songs. It's always fun to use them as a source in research papers ;). >One question though...... what the fuck is that messed up backwards >talking at the beginning of one of the tracks ("Still Life", I think)? I imagine there's probabyl a FAQ somewhere on the 'net that answers this, but, from what I remember, it's Nicko saying something like "You shouldn't mess with things you don't understand" in a not very good drunken Jamaican accent. It was supposed to be in response to all the shit IM got over Number of the Beast. Of course, my memory may not be serving me well at the moment, so I wpologize if I'm really full of it :).
Less than a week before OIAL will be in my hands :). Now I just have to order the video.
Dale R. Newberry
___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:32:42 -0600 From: "Vincent G. LuPone" <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Settling for third-rate gear. Message-ID: <3.0.32.19981021113227.0070b6e4@postoffice.syspac.com>
Chris Ptacek wrote: > Here's my honest opinion, since I've done exactly what you're doing, >many times, and ALWAYS lost for it. You have to not settle. You have to >just keep stacking bux, even if it's going to take several more months. >Find the amp that you WANT and figure out how to get it. Every time you >trade stuff in, you lose a LOT of money. $700 isn't gonna get you your >dream head and a good cab (possibly one or the other, though). Carvin or >Laney might have something close to that range that would kick for you, but >since you are serious about guitar, and have been at it a while, why not >start searching for the right amp, instead of "the amp I can get now."
I have to agree very strongly with Chris here. A few years ago, I was interested in getting different pedals and getting a cheap amp head to run my old Fender 2x12 cab. I went through a few hundred dollars in pedals, processors, and a couple amps, always saying "I don't want to spend alot of money on guitar gear, but I want a good sound." I was NEVER happy with my sound and I wasted a lot of money that could've gone towards quality gear. One day, a guy in a music store asked me why I was wasting my money on Korg pedals, then he took me into this room full of various guitar rack systems. There I bought my first piece of good guitar gear, the Rocktron Chameleon. Ever since, I've been saving money for pieces to the component system I now own, and I've put a great guitar system together. Gone is my old Ampeg solid state head, fender 2x12, and hordes of crapass pedals. And Chris is right, selling them back you lose even more money. Now, I'm not saying every guitarist has to go rack to sound good, far from it, but I am saying don't waste your time and money on crap gear. Save up and get some good stuff...what sounds good to YOU. I've found that for me, Rocktron and Mesa/Boogie are just THE SHIT. Truly awesome tone IMO. And I whole-heartedly recommend products from companies like Mesa/Boogie, Crate, Marshall, Laney, and Rivera. They have some really great gear that won't break the bank, but gives you some sweet tone. Bottom line: Good tone and awesome effects are out there, but you'll be hard pressed to find them in a $200 Digitech pedal.
Of course, this is all argumentative :) That's part of the fun!
Hasta!
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff, ~Vince
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= | http://members.xoom.com/obscuremetal/ | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4360 **************************
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