YTSEJAM Digest 4299
Today's Topics:
1) Tastes like cheese
by Calvin6S@aol.com
2) Dunno! MEDLEY.
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
3) Metropolis bass tabs
by jolaz@concentric.net
4) Prog cds to trade
by KyleTaraG@aol.com
5) An opinion about TTT MP3 with Jordan.
by "Jerry Beck" <jerrybeck@bigfoot.com>
6) Re: Tastes like cheese
by Robert Taylor <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
7) Shadow Gallery - Lyrical Interpretations
by Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
8) Shadow Gallery - Initial Impressions
by Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
9) discoveries
by "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
10) metrobass
by "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" <d94-mry@nada.kth.se>
11) lines in the sand
by Dave M Klint <davek@csh.rit.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 18:49:54 EDT
From: Calvin6S@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Tastes like cheese
Message-ID: <352a60cc.360d6f92@aol.com>
john jens:
> i'm sorry. i have
> taste. i can't get past the lyircs and vocals.
>
> anyone wanna buy/trade my Savatage Dead Winter Dead?
You say you have taste and then in almost the same breath offer up your
Savatage DWD CD for sale. hmm
I do agree that it is kinda CHEESY for someone to listen to something 10x and
hear cheese and then another 10x and hear beautiful music. Music shouldn't be
that difficult to listen to.
I've always appreciated Shadow Gallery, but do find that the melody lines and
lyrics are a bit cheesy. The vocalist has a good voice, it just seems that he
tends to exaggerate words and syllables to the EXTREME. As far as Tyranny
goes, the topic may have changed from fantasy to a modern topic but the melody
lines are very similar to Carved in Stone.
Taste is an individual thing, but when I play Shadow Gallery to someone for
the first time I shouldn't have to ALWAYS respond "I know the vocals are
dopey, but listen to the music". That seems to be a constant with EVERYONE,
so it has gone beyond personal taste into a general consensus.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 00:55:13 +0200
From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Dunno! MEDLEY.
Message-ID: <360D70D1.31CD7EF4@mol.com.mk>
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 05:16:17 EDT
> From: NikBrooks@aol.com
> Subject: DT Live in Tokyo Video
>
> Well worth searching out. Go for it cos it's very funny in places. Hope the
> new live video is as good. Mike Portnoy certainly made a good job of Tokyo
> ....
>
> N
What do ya mean "Mike made a good job"? What's concretely his share in
it?
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 13:04:41 +0300
> From: Michael Zachariadis <mzahar@cc.uoa.gr>
> Subject: Rush R&R Hall of Fame
>
> Hi there jammers
>
> I think that if anyone has paid a visit to this link:
> http://syrinx.yyz.com/HTML/rushhof.html
> should do so. Let's all help Rush get what they deserve, and who knows
> maybe some day in the long awaited future DT might get there too.
Hooray! That would be the day. Scene:
Jamiroquai in his 50s comes out and approaches to the microphone stand:
"And now ladies and gentlemen, I wanna welcome to the stage the band
that left remarkable impact on today's music scene, who bravely fought
the way for the prog music. I present ya, the one and only, ..... Dream
Theater!"
DT comes out and start "New Millenium"!
Bye, see ya, I go off to drop dead! :)
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:45:55 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Peter Geerts <zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be>
> Subject: Eternity X and other X'es
>
> Rogerio Brito wrote:
>
> > But one thing caught my attention: why
> > are there so many bands obsessed to have X in their names?
> > You know, Racer X, Symphony X, Eternity X, King's X and a
> > lot of other XXX's you may thing of... :-)
>
> Hey don't forget Brand X... Phil Collins' acid-jazz hobbyband...They
> started all this X-thing way back in the seventies:-)
>
> Cheers
> Zaphod
Way to go Zaphod!!!! Wooho, another jammer who knows Brand X. I tried
emphasising them but no result! :)
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 14:06:59 EDT
> From: Joe Marshaleck <K4HB@Maristb.MARIST.EDU>
> Subject: bass solo- metropolis
>
> listen,
> I am a bass player, and i was wondering how john myung does his solo
> on metropolis. i cannot figure it out.
> joe
It's more a trick than an awesome playing I think! He does great
tapping, that's for sure. Try listening the solo with isolating those
kicks of the other instruments and I think you'll find out it's not that
hard.
Nope, I'm not a bassist (kinda lousy guitarist maybe) and I can't play
it.
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 17:00:43 -0400
> From: "Christopher J. Cerminara" <cxc393@psu.edu>
> Subject: Recording real audio
>
> Does anyone out there know how to go about capturing real audio on disk.
> Live concerts.com have two fo my favorite 80s matal bands, Slaughter anf
> Firehouse, playing on Wednesday night, and I'd like to hang on to it. If
> anyone has any info, please let me know. Thanks.
>
> Chris
I guess right-click the link and SAVE AS...
Phew! No, no, it's OK everyone, it was my pleasure enlighening you! ;-)
Yours,
CyberDuke
NP: The Cure - Disintegration
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:55:15 -0400
From: jolaz@concentric.net
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Metropolis bass tabs
Message-ID: <360D7EE2.F9056BDD@concentric.net>
Whoever asked for the tabs for "Metropolis" bass solo - try this URL:
http://users.skynet.be/JohnPetrucci/webpage8.html?10,31
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:59:09 EDT
From: KyleTaraG@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Prog cds to trade
Message-ID: <91b076a4.360d7fcd@aol.com>
This is a list of cds I'm looking to trade/sell. I'd prefer to trade, so let
me know what you have. Email me privately.
Artension-Phoenix Rising, Into The Eye of the Storm
George Bellas -Turn of the Millenium
Jens Johansson -Fission
Anders/Jens Johansson/Alan Holdsworth-Heavy Machinery
Scott Henderson/Victor Wooten/Steve Smith-Vital Tech Tones
Mastermind-III
Thought Industry-Black Umbrella
John West-Mind Journey
Tempest-Turn of the Wheel, The Gravel Work
Virgin Steele-Noble Savage, Marriage of Heaven + Hell pt. 2
Crisis-deathshead extermination
Working Man-Rush Tribute
John Norum-Face it Live '97
Glenn Hughes-Addiction
Thanks,
-Kyle
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 02:03:37 +0200
From: "Jerry Beck" <jerrybeck@bigfoot.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: An opinion about TTT MP3 with Jordan.
Message-ID: <000b01bde9aa$59921560$df5d5ec3@master>
Hi jammers,
after following the jams for quite a while now I feel ready to dig in my
opinion about the MP3 with Jordan. Sorry, I'm so late with my opinion, but
maybe somebody agrees...
As in the booklet of LTE I agree with Mike that "Jordan is a complete
virtuoso", but in the "end Solo" of the TTT MP3, I seem to recognize that
he -like many others- tries to play the keyboards sound like a guitar.
What's wrong about this? Absolutely nothing, but I think that (despite his
virtuosity) he don't seem to manage to come "to the point!" like (here I go)
Jens Johannsson (I really like what you do, man) or John with the guitar
itself. Listen to Jens solo in "Rising Force" from Yngwie and I hope you
hear the difference and know what I mean. It sounds to me that he didn't
know where he wanted to go in his scales while he is playing and that is an
ability that Jens can do best (for my ears). So that's what I miss here.
He's playing around in his scales absolutely well, but I think that his
playing of going around and "don't hit nowhere" makes the solo here a bit
"empty" and too "round" or "hang-in-the-air" for me. That the song sounds
different from the original is no wonder (beside his more organ-like sound),
cause different fingers: different sound. Somebody said "we know who makes
DT sound like DT" and I absolutely agree with that. In my opinion, Derek has
his own virtuosity style and his own sound and he completes DT with his
musical skills like I don't wanna miss any other musician of DT and replaced
by someone else. Ok, just an opinion, right? Complaints? Agreements?
As I heard that LTE is going to do a second album (and after reading the
booklet of the first one) I had a little hope to hear Jens and Billy S. with
Mike and John, cause that would be my favorite cast for a project (hi
Schnipp). Maybe at
another time ???....
Oh, hi Phil, thanx for your explanations for all the Xs in the names; here
in Germany we quarrel a bit about if it's called Kings Axe or Kings Cross,
now I know where it comes from.
Jerry Beck
***There's nothing a month on Hawaii wouldn't cure and if you put your mind
to it, you can accomplish anything ***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 19:42:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Taylor <rctaylor@students.uiuc.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Re: Tastes like cheese
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980926193310.9950C-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>
On Sat, 26 Sep 1998 Calvin6S@aol.com wrote:
> Taste is an individual thing, but when I play Shadow Gallery to someone for
> the first time I shouldn't have to ALWAYS respond "I know the vocals are
> dopey, but listen to the music". That seems to be a constant with EVERYONE,
> so it has gone beyond personal taste into a general consensus.
I remember that when a friend of mine heard "Carved in Stone" he said it
sounded like 80s, but it was good 80s. This is a guy who usually makes
fun of my music saying its all 80s just because the only bands he
recognizes in my collection are Def Leppard, Poison, etc.
Anyway, I love the new Shadow Gallery album. I haven't been anle to get
the songs out of my head all week. The instrumental sections are great
(IMO) from the solos to the complex prog stuff. And what I like just as
much, if not more, are the vocals. I never thought of SG choruses as
"cheesy." I call them "big choruses." And I love them! But, it is just
a matter of taste, I suppose.
Robert Taylor
rctaylor@uiuc.edu
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~rctaylor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:03:56 -0400
From: Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Shadow Gallery - Lyrical Interpretations
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980926210356.007a88e0@mail.ee.net>
What follows is a long drawn out soliloquy of my personal
interpretation of Tyranny and Carved in Stone. I express some
religious views, so if that sort of thing bothers you please stop
reading now...
This is obviously a concept album. I say obviously because I have
always thought of Carved in Stone as a concept album. The concept
on it was not as tightly knit or as prominent as the concept on
Tyranny. I think that is why the conceptuality of CiS has eluded
many listeners.
Now, I'm a big believer in the idea of musical subjectivity. I
know a lot of people probably disagree with me, especially those
anal-retentive, Ayn Rand worshipping, Rush fans who are always in
the quest for the "one true meaning" of musical lyrics. I guess
I'd say that I believe in a "one true meaning" for every
song/album but I think that that meaning is different from person
to person. I, for one, am output-driven: the meaning of music to
me has always been what I get out of it and not what the artist
puts into it. That's not to say that I'm either self-centered or
an existentialist, just that music is very personal to me. I
really don't care exactly about the message that the artist may
be attempting to convey. I am content with my personal
interpretations, even if they are "wrong".
I don't really like to argue with people about my subjective
interpretations. A couple of weeks ago someone asked for a list
of Christian progressive metal artists. I omitted Shadow Gallery
from my list because I've grown tired of arguing the point over
time. Someone did point out my omission. I put Kings X in my list
and caught some flack for it. One of their big fans and web page
maintainers responded with an absolute and definitive response
that they are not. I didn't respond because to me they
absolutely, definitely are and to him they absolutely, definitely
are not. There was a fundamental separation of musical values
between the two of us that no volume of dialogue could bridge.
Frankly, enough people have told me that my process of
"personalizing" music to myself is odd, so I generally keep it to
myself. I'm only including it in this posting to give some
background on how I think. Who knows, maybe there are other
oddballs like me out there somewhere.
If other people want to evaluate music in different ways that is
fine with me. I found a system that works for me and I'm happy
with it. I know there are people who can't rest until they heard
something concrete from the artist themselves about the meaning
of a work. To me, these people are hearing music and listening to
music and perhaps even analyzing music, but they are really not
experiencing music. Anyway, on to Shadow Gallery...
Regarding Carved in Stone being a concept album, I first want to
say that there are two ways to express conceptual stories in
music - First - there's the method of ramming the meaning down
the listener's throats to the point where a person would have to
criminally obtuse not to grasp it. An example here would be Dream
Theater's A Change of Seasons. It is a very unsubtle work. The
second method is to obscure the artist's meaning to the point
where different people will have strange and bizarre
interpretations. Following the previous DT example, I offer their
song Lifting Shadows Off A Dream as an example. What is it
about?... What does it mean?... Does it matter?
For concept albums, I prefer the obfuscation method. In fact, I
really like it when an artist makes the listener question whether
an album has a concept or not. To me this is the ultimate
pinnacle in lyrical expression. Examples here are Arena's The
Visitor and Shadow Gallery's Carved in Stone. I'm still working
on my interpretation of The Visitor.
My interpretation of CiS was very slow in coming also. I always
had the impression that it was peppered with religious themes,
but there were those confusing songs that I threw me off. There
was Cliffhanger which sounded like some futuristic Logan's Run
science fiction fantasy thing, Warcry which sounded like a Indian
chief decrying the destruction of the land, and Ghostship which
sounded like another futuristic sci-fi thing. The whole CD was
filled with these vague metaphors that hid the real (to me)
meaning of the CD.
One day while sitting at work with the CD playing, I was struck
with a blindingly powerful revelation. I have no idea where it
came from, but the CD struck me a being about a band of survivors
fighting to maintain their lives and their faith during the
period of times referred to by interpreters of Biblical prophecy
as "the tribulation." I listened to the CD at home for the next
couple of days measuring the possibility of this interpretation.
The more I analyzed it, the clearer it became.
Being a religious kind of guy this was a very positive
interpretation for me. The fact that the message was so totally
hidden from a cursory view yet so clear upon further reflection
really impressed me. There is a message on the CD liner that says
"Let those who have ears listen-its more than just music" only
confirms my thoughts. The amount of lyrical genius required to
pull off something like this is just staggering to me. This album
was in my top 10 from the first listen and since this discovery
has been my favorite album.
When I heard the initial reviews for Tyranny, I was excited. The
early reviews expressed what others heard as positive aspects
about the music that sounded both great and troubling. I really
wanted to hear the album. There were a number of copies sold
quickly at Powermad 98 back in August. I was about ten minutes
late for them. Someone did make me a tape copy and I've been
listening to it until I got the CD this week.
I am pretty set in my lyrical interpretation of this album now.
It came to me rather quickly. I think I've heard previous reviews
saying that they thought the album had an "end of millennium/end
of world" theme to it. I perceive the album to be a prequel to
Carved in Stone. I consider Tyranny to be about the
"pre-tribulation rapture", which is a Bible-banger buzzword for
the beginning of the end times. This time the theme seems a lot
more obvious to me since I know what I'm looking for. There are
musical passages that have a very strong connection to the
musical passages in Carved in Stone that I think extend beyond
merely personal compositional and playing styles into some
carefully constructed and well-planned meaning.
What is interesting about this whole concept is that I've
generally lost interest in the Biblical apocalyptic
interpretations of scripture because it just seemed so academic
and any conclusion or predictions made by people seem somewhat
arbitrary. I really am enjoying the Saviour Machine Legend I & II
discs with a similar theme. However the perspective on those
works is from the point of view of a saved Christian narrating
before it happens. The dark mood of those albums does an
excellent job of reflecting the darkness of the topic, but the
lyrical presentation on Legend seems sort of sterile and
impersonal. While it is billed as a "soundtrack to the end of the
world", it sort of misses the impact of future events on the
individuals who will experience them. AND, while I realize that
it is still an incomplete work, I'm still waiting for some
positive message to come out of it.
Shadow Gallery addresses the same prophetic material from a
completely different perspective that is emotionally and
spiritually compelling. They tackle the point of view of the
unsaved and unknowing. They do an excellent job reflecting how
confusing the end times will be for those who will experience
them with no real knowledge of what is happening. While Carved in
Stone covered similar themes in a similar manner, Tyranny really
does an excellent job of connecting the material through the
experiences of one person. The physical and spiritual conflicts
faced and addressed by the protagonist of Tyranny draws the
listener in extremely well. The music itself is every bit as
emotionally moving and powerful as Carved in Stone and both CDs
do an excellent job of delivering a very strong message of hope.
Again, what is amazing about Tyranny is that the religious
aspects are very low-key and could really be totally missed by
most listeners. The story lends itself well to multiple
interpretations. I'm sure someone will draw parallels between
this story and your basic Robert Ludlum secret conspiracy to take
over the world type of story. I don't think that this is a
watering down of the albums powerful message, but is, rather, a
very-well thought out seed of thought.
Of course, many people could say that I was just hearing what I
wanted (needed?) to hear. To you I say - I agree. I think that
should be the goal of every musician - to reach the listener in a
personal way. Different music appeals to me in different ways -
some visceral, some cerebral, some emotional, and some spiritual.
The most powerful of these for me is the spiritual connection.
Shadow Gallery has achieved this with me twice now.
Joe
jkruger@ee.net
Check out http://www.mindcage.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html
for great prog metal discussion!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 21:03:50 -0400
From: Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Shadow Gallery - Initial Impressions
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980926210350.007adb60@mail.ee.net>
Well, thanks to a friend, I've been listening to this for about
two weeks now. I've probably listened all the way thru it at
least 30 times now. I finally picked it up on CD this Tuesday and
have had a couple of days of reading along with the lyric sheet.
As far as an actual review of the CD, I'm not really ready for
that just yet. Suffice it to say that if you loved Carved in
Stone, you will love Tyranny. If you like Carved in Stone but
thought it could be heavier, you might like Tyranny slightly
more. If you thought Carved in Stone was pure musical cheese (in
a bad way), then you will probably feel the same way about
Tyranny. In short, their style has not significantly changed much
from Carved in Stone. I think that is a good thing.
Here are my basic thoughts - Tyranny is a stunning and powerful
masterpiece and will unquestionably be my favorite CD of 1998.
Now that I've heard the album, I would have to admit to liking it
a great deal. It will certainly be at the top of my list of 1998
releases. I really enjoyed the "formula" or "mix" or "style" of
CiS and am pleased that Tyranny bears a very strong resemblance
to my ears. I had fears that the guitar heaviness that I'd heard
about would result in keyboard lightness. I think that their
music demands a lot keyboards and Tyranny has not disappointed me
in the slightest in this aspect.
The additional characters given separate voices in the Tyranny
story were all done extremely well without feeling the least bit
like a special guest star type of thing. DC Cooper's performance
really shone on this. I'm hoping that he was involved enough with
this project to carry some of this experience back to Royal Hunt.
The production of Tyranny is amazing. Shadow Gallery has such an
incredible attention to the detail demanded by this story. The
emotions conveyed by the musical and vocal performances matched
the theme perfectly.
More thoughts coming immediately, more detailed review coming
eventually...
Joe
jkruger@ee.net
Check out http://www.mindcage.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html
for great prog metal discussion!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 20:58:51 -0400
From: "Alex O'Connell" <auocon@maila.wm.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: discoveries
Message-ID: <199809270101.VAA17590@maila.wm.edu>
Yo, ytsefolks, I just had to share this random experience. No one I knows
gets it... a couple of my friends and I went to the CD store so my bud
could get his dad a birthday present. I have no cash, so buying was out of
the question, but out of curiousity I just wandered around to see what they
had. To my complete and utter surprise, I found a whole SLEW of King
Crimson. As in, on the shelves, not with the used CDs, and with their own
label saying "King Crimson." A little CD store, in Williamsburg!!! Nuts.
As if that wasn't enough, I also saw a King's X CD. I dunno what the
title(s) were, I was too shocked to pay much attention. I thought it was
pretty amazing though. Almost makes you start believing in "normal" CD
stores again. Almost....
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 1998 03:08:40 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?=" <d94-mry@nada.kth.se>
To: "The Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: metrobass
Message-ID: <000f01bde9b3$76cff580$8a25ed82@mats>
frgbxkl,
from seeing him do it a couple of times live and briefly on his video =
this is how i do, or try to, do it: it's all two handed tapping using =
two left hand fingers and probably three right hand fingers (you might =
want to use the billy sheehan method of reinforcing your taps by =
pressing the middle finger onto the back of the index finger, the same =
goes for ring and pinky). each - represents 32th notes, so it's just 8th =
notes, except for the next to last ones. move the pattern to C (8th =
fret), D (10th), E (12th) and finish with simple A-D notes... then =
double the guitar/keys solo ;-)
G --------------14---------1414----
D --------7------------------------14--
A ------------14-------14--------------
E ----7--------------------7-----------
rh rh lh lh lh rh lhlhlh
when you first play it it's a real aha experience. to get it perfectly =
fluid is nearly impossible, listen to some of the live recordings and =
you'll hear that it's a struggle even for john.
a cooler part imo is scarred, it took forever until i realised it's all =
bass. easy on four string as well, play with mxr phaser for a really =
cool sound. the left hand pattern is just A-H-A-H... repeated, and the =
right hand chords:
G --19----19----16----16----
D --19----18----16----14----
the part that takes some practice is the end of the pattern, playd =
normal style on the E and A strings, E-F#-A-H, as soon as the H is =
plucked you'll have to have your fingers aligned for the next tapping on =
the G and D strings on the 19th fret. to get that fluid is the key.
these are of course not facts, but imo those are working was to play =
those great parts. on a 4 string! lsoad is another thing though ;-)
while we're one the subject, the tab of the bass solo in ytse jam i've =
seen says that it starts differently from what i think i hear, which is =
(in tab) 14-15-17-19-17-19-20-19-... someone with expertise on the =
subject. is that transcription totally wrong or am i? is there a perfect =
transcription for 4 str?
ok, that's all for now!
/mats
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 1998 23:56:34 -0400
From: Dave M Klint <davek@csh.rit.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: lines in the sand
Message-ID: <199809270356.XAA16964@elwood.csh.rit.edu>
Since I was destroyed for my remark about the keyboards for FII, I
had to listen to the CD to make sure that I wasn't smoking crack at
the time. I have to stay with my original analysis, the keyboards
in FII aren't as good as I&W. Not because Derek isn't as good as
Kevin (hit me in the face...), but because the songs don't call for
it. The solo in Burning my Soul is good, but it's the only one on
the CD. There's no Metropolis, no UAGM, no songs that call for
keyboard liquidation.
Anyway, does anyone care to analyze the 12 minute mastery that is
"Lines in the Sand"? The FAQ offers some explination, but there are
a _lot_ of religious references in the song, "Saviour", "Virgin",
"Crosses", "Crown of Thorns", and the title itself is as well.
Anyone care to enlighten (pun intended)?
-davek
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4299
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