YTSEJAM Digest 4308
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Song Of The Millennium (spelling errors)
by MaxArbot@aol.com
2) re: does anybody care? (about SX)
by Dave M Klint <davek@csh.rit.edu>
3) Song of the Millenium or song of the Bulgarian?
by Cyberwolf <ninja@mindspring.com>
4) FII Sales question??
by WaterIce25@aol.com
5) Tyranny
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
6) Re: vital tech tones
by John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
7) Re: Song Of The Millennium (spelling errors)
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
8) Re: AOR
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
9) Stop!
by Steven Abt <steveabt@yahoo.com>
10) AOR definition
by Calvin6S@aol.com
11) Source for DT I&W Full Sized Posters
by Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
12) PiL with Steve Vai
by imajica@algonet.se (Niklas Thorpenberg)
13) Ytsecommunism
by "Timo Haanp??" <thaanpaa@sci.fi>
14) DT: FII and The Test of Time
by Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
15) Diverse DT
by NikBrooks@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:36:42 EDT
From: MaxArbot@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Song Of The Millennium (spelling errors)
Message-ID: <70abc655.36125e1a@aol.com>
"MacAusland, Robert: HFX" <MacAusland.Robert@ic.gc.ca>
writes...
<< I'm not one to nitpick... well, ok I am one to nitpick :-), but I don't
think one should be allowed to vote for the Song Of The Millenium, until you
realise that it's spelled MILLENNIUM and not MILLENIUM. >>
I'm not one to nitpick either...but I don't think one should be allowed to
ridicule someone for spelling Millenium wrong unless they can spell REALIZE
not REALISE.
[eriC]
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 12:36:37 -0400
From: Dave M Klint <davek@csh.rit.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: re: does anybody care? (about SX)
Message-ID: <199809301636.MAA21898@elwood.csh.rit.edu>
Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>(Hell, I had DT - I&W for a year before it really struck me how good
>it was...)
>
You ever noticed that? I thought it was just me. I purchased FII
as soon as it came out, hurried home to listen to it and while I was
listening, I remember thinking, "I like this band?" So I listened
to it again, and again, and again, and at about the 30th time of
listening to it, I finally realized that it was an awesome album.
I've had albums for months before realizing that they were good, and
most of them are prog albums. I hated Dicipline by King Crimson
(awesom album, BTW) the first time I listened to it, but after the
3rd rotation, I realized it was good. I think that's why people
don't like prog music as much, becuase you have to _learn_ it before
you can enjoy it (to it's fullest). And since people are used
to Queen Latifa putting out one repetitive rythmic beat and saying
"Supah dupah fly" 3 million times in a row, they don't want to listen
to something twice before they like it. I guess that just means were
better, nyah.
-davek
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:06:11 +0000
From: Cyberwolf <ninja@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Song of the Millenium or song of the Bulgarian?
Message-ID: <36122CAB.6E9BD995@mindspring.com>
Sorry to disapoint, y'all, but my song vote of the millenium had to goto
Fates Warning: "Through Different Eyes"
And thats the way it is. Although, I would sooner choose "Learning to Live"
from DT if I had to pick ONLY a DT Song... Don't get any ideas any of you,
ya crazy buncha bangladesh emerald tree boas! You'll never take me alive! Har.
- Scott
SONG OF THE MILLENIUM Vote#4: TACO GRANDE - Weird Al Yankovic.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:10:26 EDT
From: WaterIce25@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: FII Sales question??
Message-ID: <d0e7b05c.36126602@aol.com>
Hello DT fans. I was just wandering is anyone knew how many copies of FII
have been sold so far. Thanks
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:35:38 -0500
From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Tyranny
Message-ID: <000901bdeca1$1fe60520$4a739c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
Howdy.
I've had Tyranny for about a week or so. It's time for my first
impressions.
Guitars: HUGE tone improvement. There's only one solo on the album
with that "Gorilla Amp" tone that we all know and love. Bad tone hurts good
solos. These are great solos, with good tone. Brendt is climbing to the
top of the pack as a speed-mutha! :) Fans of Symphony X will love the
opening track. Killer work. Brendt is an economy picker, and he puts it to
good use on a short key/guitar unison shred lick. Sick, sick sick. Because
of the new TriAxis tone, I can't always tell the guitarists apart by tone,
though Brendt has a bit more of a brittle sounding attack. I have yet to
really thoroughly analyze the solos. The rhythms will remind people of CiS
(Especially Cliffhanger) for some songs, while other rhythms explore some
different textures. They definitely have a Shadow Gallery sound now. You
can hear the SG style of composition. The disc is divided into two
sections, and hell if Act II doesn't just rip! The tune after D.C. Cooper's
guest vocal slot has the best (IMO) guitar melody SG has ever done. Bravo.
Keys: FINALLY some really bad ass key solos from Ingles. He's got all
those unison lines on CiS, and I've got the Steinway to Heaven disc he
performs on... clearly he has chops... but now he's playing some memorable
solos as well. I'd love to hear more and longer key solo breaks. Great
piano work on this disc (though I'm not always sure when it's Chris and when
it's Gary).
Drums and Bass: Very solid, but I don't like the way the kick is mixed
in. It could be much more audible. Sometimes when you want to hear a fast
double bass gallop, you don't hear much at all. The fills are tasteful, and
this guy is worthy of the band. The bass stands out more clearly on this
disc, which is good, but since Carl is a picker, sometimes his attack is a
bit too bright for my tastes. It sometimes sounds like a low tuned guitar
to me. The lines are cool.
Vocals: Mike has improved a good deal. I love the lush SG harmonies,
though they have a tendency to be a bit overwhelming at times. LaBrie has a
short guest spot, which kicks ass, and makes you wish he had more lines.
D.C. Cooper is a huge surprise on this album. He really sounds evil. He
has the honor of singing the best vocal melody on the album (I'm sure Mike
would have done just as well, but since it's "the bad guy part" it's fitting
to have D.C. sing it.) When you hear that chorus, if it doesn't get glued
into your cranium, you're already moldy and lifeless.
That's the first impression. I'm working on transcribing some of this
stuff, so I'll probably have a better review eventually, whether or not it
will be on the jam. Finale 97 rocks. :)
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:16:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: vital tech tones
Message-ID: <19980930201612.20938.rocketmail@send105.yahoomail.com>
I totaly agree!!!! Victor wooten is the man. Not to mention
Hendersons awsome playing and Steve Smith is in top form on this cd.
Run and buy this cd now!
> As for the Vital Tech Tones review, it is definately awsome. I
> bought this cd last week and i must URGE, BEG, PLEAD, you to go out
> and but this if you haven't. 3 AMAZING musicians playing as tight
> as...well...tight! "this is one of the most explosively
> improvisational records in recent memory" says Guitar. <drool> says
> me.
==
John
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 15:22:23 -0500
From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com, ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: Song Of The Millennium (spelling errors)
Message-ID: <361292fe1642002@mhub3.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <70abc655.36125e1a@aol.com>
from ytsejam@ax.com:
> I'm not one to nitpick either...but I don't think one should be allowed to
> ridicule someone for spelling Millenium wrong unless they can spell REALIZE
> not REALISE.
Umm, realise is perfectly correct guy. Sorry to bust your bubble of attempted
superiority there.
-Brian
________________________________________________________________________________
"Each time I write lines for it, someone improvises it...
life is so much cleaner on the page." - Kevin Moore
________________________________________________________________________________
Coleridge on IRC Web: http://umn.edu/~hayd0029
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:36:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: AOR
Message-ID: <19980930203624.2579.rocketmail@send1b.yahoomail.com>
>
> I have heard two meanings for AOR;
> Adult Oriented Rock or Album Oriented Rock
>
> Does anyone know which, if either, is correct?
Well, obviously both will work with that acronym. ;op
If I recall correctly, the term was first used as an acronym for
"Album Oriented Rock". It was used back in the 70's for radio stations
that played groups like Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, ELP, Yes, etc. I guess
it meant that they played longer songs, and they might play any song
on the album, not just some "single" that got released. Most radio
stations only played the (shorter) singles, if they played those bands
at all.
Now that anyone from that era is an "adult" (at least in terms of
age!), the acronym can be (and is) used for "Adult Oriented Rock".
Young people would never listen to that old stuff! ;o)
my $.02, BH
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 13:08:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: Steven Abt <steveabt@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Stop!
Message-ID: <19980930200851.25715.rocketmail@send104.yahoomail.com>
How do I remove myself from this newsletter?
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 17:07:30 EDT
From: Calvin6S@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: AOR definition
Message-ID: <50cba7af.36129d92@aol.com>
> I have heard two meanings for AOR;
> Adult Oriented Rock or Album Oriented Rock
AOR - Album Oriented Rock
Its the term for a radio station format. It means the radio station plays
cuts from an ALBUM rather than depend on SINGLES. If you call up a Top 40
radio station and say "Play Lines in the Sand off the new Dream Theater album"
- it ain't gonna happen. You would atleast have a chance with an AOR radio
station.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:18:34 -0700
From: Jon Kretschmer <jkretsch@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Source for DT I&W Full Sized Posters
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980930141834.007da100@sdcc17.ucsd.edu>
Email me if you are interested in aquiring full sized posters of the album
cover for DT's I&W.
Received my Autumn Leaf 2CD bootleg set of Spock's Beard. God this band
rocks :)
Later all.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 14:46:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: imajica@algonet.se (Niklas Thorpenberg)
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: PiL with Steve Vai
Message-ID: <199809302146.OAA05639@odin.ax.com>
Hey everyone!
About PiL and Stevie. I have the album, and if I recall correctly he didn't
contribute to the song writing at all. In fact, he never even met the rest
of the band. They just sent him tapes and let him do whatever he wanted with
it. I'm pretty sure he plays on all the songs, though it's nothing like your
typical Vai-stuff (except for the excellent outro solo in the song Ease).
Also, I think he once said that this was the band he was most proud of
having played with.
Take care,
Niklas
oOo
...the spirit has it's
homeland, which is the
realm of the meaning
of things.
oOo
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 Oct 1998 00:54:25 +0300
From: "Timo Haanp??" <thaanpaa@sci.fi>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Ytsecommunism
Message-ID: <3612A891.6ECD409D@sci.fi>
The Oysterman put this well:
>So, I refuse to vote "just because". But, I tell you, I would not give >ACOS 3 points, not even 2, not even 1 single point, even if this
>wasn't organized - because I don't like ACOS. Definitely NOT
>my song of the millennium. Not even my favourite DT song.
ACOS isn't my favorite DT song, either, although it's up there.
I would have probably given a point to LTL had these ACoS fanatics
not ruined the whole thing and made it -- pointless.
>If you don't like ACOS best of all, don't vote for it - you'll lie, and >the whole survey is useless (although I guess it's ruined already).
>On the other hand, if you DO have ACOS as your song of the millennium,
>don't dare to hesitate - go vote for it!
Well said.
In case anyone is interested. I voted for American Pie & Bridge
Over Troubled Water. Had the URL not been posted here, I would've
never even found it, so thanks to whomever posted it in the first
place.
Just my 2p.
Bye,
Timo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:23:49 -0400
From: Joe Kruger <jkruger@ee.net>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: DT: FII and The Test of Time
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19980930182349.007a77f0@mail.ee.net>
Well, it has been over a year since I bought this CD, so I thought
that I would re-visit it to see how well it has stood the test of
time...
The first thing I notice as I pull the CD off the shelf is that it is
at the end of the top shelf of my progressive metal CD case. It has
kind of wedged itself in the corner behind the glass doors and takes a
little coaxing to get out. I can't be certain how long it's been
sitting in there undisturbed, but I'm guessing about nine months. This
is not a good sign. I know that I've listened to WDADU and Awake
several times in the last couple of months, and I've played I&W just a
couple of days earlier. I think my listening habits with this disc is
the most telling assessment of this disc. Believe me, my daily CD
selection is based on emotions and whim more than anything else. I
don't do mini-reviews in my head prior to picking out my music. My
apparent rejection of this disc has been entirely subconscious.
The second thing I notice as I open the CD case and put it into my
player is that I have this feeling that I don't really want to listen
to it. I feel like there is so much more music on the shelves that is
just so much better than this that I question my reasons for forcing
this onto myself. I promised myself that I would do an objective
assessment of this disc, but I find it to be impossible. For me, music
is very personal and subjective. My thoughts, emotions, and state of
mind have a profound impact on my perceptions.
Finally, I play the disc on the CD boombox next to my PC. I have a
sound card and speakers, but they are crappy, so I only use the CD
drive to listen to music with headphones. I don't really want to be
bothered by headphones. Now for all you people who think that
listening to music on a low-fi system like a boombox is suboptimal: I
agree. But it normally doesn't affect my listening experience. I don't
believe it is necessary to listen to music on a $20,000 "reference"
system in order to really appreciate it; at least for me it is not. I
only subscribed to Stereo Review for three years; that wasn't long
enough for it to control my thoughts. :-)
As the music is playing I think back to how I felt about the CD a year
ago. Prior to its release, I listened to some real-audio, wave, and
MP3 files of the music on the disc. I hated it, but decided to buy the
CD to really judge it. At the time I had left the ytsejam mailing list
for the greener pastures of the Perpetual Motion discussion board
where the topics tended to be musically broader and emotionally
friendlier. There were quite a few people there bashing the CD and the
band, and the common sentiment could have been summed up simply as
"FII sucks."
The day that I bought the CD I listened to it about 4 times
consecutively before posting my first thoughts. I remember that my
title of that posting was "FII does NOT suck!!". I was expecting it to
be as horrible as others were saying that it was or at least as
horrible as the sound samples that I had heard. It wasn't. There was
one song in which I didn't care for the guitar tone (and still don't),
but I didn't really assess the whole CD to be a big stinking pile of
cow dung like nearly everyone else was. I thought that the music was
good - not necessarily great, but good. I wasn't ready to rave about
it, but it did slightly exceed the incredibly low expectations I had
acquired from the massive volume of negative hype.
As I listen again, I feel the same way. It is good, but not great. You
are probably wondering how a person could say something is good but
yet give it such a lukewarm or almost negative review as I did in the
first couple of paragraphs of this posting. The reason is simple... I
have lots of "good" music. I even have a fairly sizable collection of
"great" music. Surrounded by all the other equally good music and the
far better great music, this CD doesn't really stand out. Now, I'm
aware that I have not used the dreaded IMHO yet. I hope every reader
is intelligent enough to make that inference on their own. However,
since I am also posting this to the ytsejam, I probably should not set
my expectations that high. Just to make it clear, my definitions of
good and great are my own. I don't expect everyone to agree with them
or even to understand them. If you think FII is the greatest thing
you've ever heard, then I'm content to say that our tastes differ. I
won't say that I'm right and you're wrong (although I'll probably
think it).
Again, since I'm posting this to the ytsejam, I have to expect a few
"back it up buddy" responses as par for the course. People on that
mailing list will demand that I explain why I think that FII is good
but not great. People on the Perpetual Motion board who are reading
the same thing are probably scratching their collective heads about
why I rate it as highly as "good." But they know that I'm quirky,
stubborn, and long-winded and will probably avoid the discussion just
so that I don't post another 9K discourse.
[Note: there is no reason for you to take my ytsejam bashing comments
personally, unless you do have a reason. :-) I realize that there are
both good and bad people there and really don't want any of the good
people to think I'm picking on them, too.]
My feeling about this album are simple. The musical influences of the
band have become too pronounced. When I listen to WDADU and I&W and
Awake, I hear the music that influences the band. I am only a couple
of years older than the band members, so I grew up with most of the
same influences. And, I like those influences. What is different about
the earlier works from this band is that the influences where fused,
or welded, or blended together. The band had a very clear unique or
original identity that borrowed from their influences. The band had
synergy. My dictionary defines synergy as "the action of two or more
substances to achieve an effect of which each is individually
incapable." This synergy is the magic that once defined Dream Theater
to me that I believe is not present on FII.
Now, to me, the band has a very muddy identity on FII that is merely a
sum of their influences. It is almost as if they deliberately subtract
the "Dream Theater" sound from their sound to some degree. Yes, it is
still present, but no longer dominates their sound as it did on
previous albums. When I listen to FII, I get a feeling of "here's the
Metallica song", "here's the Elton John song", "here's the Dimeola
riff", "here's the Lifeson vibe", "here's the Pink Floyd song", etc.
There are only brief moments of their former glory. Putting cover
songs and cover sounds and cover riffs into music is something that is
done by a band that is just starting out, not an established band. To
me, it cheapens the music; it strikes me as stealing from influences
rather than borrowing from influences.
My other gripe is that the band seems to have fallen for the "songs
are structured verse, chorus, verse, chorus, bridge, chorus, verse,
coda" nonsense that dominates popular music. I view a band as
progressive when they write progressive music, that is music that does
not rely upon simple structures. I'm not saying that this is what
their music has become, only that this compositional style seems more
prevalent in this work than in previous works. Yes, I've listened to
their albums and am aware of the exceptions both in terms of
progressive songs on FII and not-as-progressive songs on previous
works, please don't point them out to me. What I'm talking about is a
"degree" of progressiveness not a presence or absence. It is
subjective, and I'd rather not debate it.
By the way, I do listen to and like a lot of non-progressive music. I
don't worship at the altar of progressive like a lot of the nitwits on
R.M.P., but for me I just expect more from "progressive" music. I do
not view a change to a simpler compositional style a "progression" or
a "maturing of the band's writing", but rather a regression. I don't
view a band as progressive because they have changed, matured, or
"moved forward" over time. Again, I view a band as progressive when
they write progressive music. I'm running out of room to explain what
I mean by that, but just let me say that I think DT is a progressive
band and that FII is a progressive album, just less progressive than
previous albums. I can't say that because it is "less" progressive
based on some arbitrary progressiveness rating system in my head that
it is not progressive.
At the edge of my 10K limit, let me just say that I don't think that
FII is either compelling or great. I think that FII has failed my test
of time.
Your contrary opinions are always welcome.
Joe
jkruger@ee.net
Check out http://www.mindcage.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html
for great prog metal discussion!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 1998 19:01:24 EDT
From: NikBrooks@aol.com
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Diverse DT
Message-ID: <bd8522d9.3612b844@aol.com>
In a message dated 9/30/98 5:09:26PM, you write:
>
>> From: NikBrooks@aol.com
>> Subject: Diversity IS Nice
>>
>> Um, I listen to DT AND Bush, although I must say their first album (16
>Stone)
>> with Everything Zen etc is the one I prefer.
>
>Is Bush you're all talking about Kate Bush? She has some very cool
>stuff!
She does, way cooler in fact that the British band Bush (who sound a bit like
Nirvana) although it was the band Bush I was talking about.
>
>> I also listen to a WHOLE lot more diverse stuff besides.
>>
>> Eg., Marcus Miller, Mike Oldfield, Marillion, Beethoven, Rachmaninov, Pat
>> Metheny, Massed Pipes and Drums of the Scots Dragoon Guards, Los Trios
>> Paraguayos, Passion Grace & Fire (McLaughlin, Di Meola and De Lucia),
>Chopin,
>> Debussy, Puccini (esp La Boheme), Cyclone Tracy, Angra, Glenn Hughes, T
>Ride
>> (whatever happened to them?), Roundabout (Yes), the list is endless. It
>just
>> has to sound good and have some sort of musical structure/score .........
>
>Right!
Left, right left right ...
By the centre, quick MARCH!!!!!!!
(oooh the sound of the bagpipes on a bonny winterrrrrrrr's eve)
(Racist Scot's joke specially for Graham Borland)
>
>> I do draw the line at the Spice Girls though ;-)
>
>Now wait a minute! I guess I agree but once on some music channel I saw
>a video clip by Spice Grils. Dunno the title, nothing. It was quite slow
>tune but VERY psychodelic sounding. And I liked it! :)
Spice Grils? What's that some new TV dinner from Bird's Eye?
>And I guess they sing good, no matter the music direction is garbage.
>
>Fellow jammer said to me privately that he also like it (I won't say his
>name for security reasons ;) and that it is song probably from their new
>album.
>
>CyberDuke
My comment was t-i-c. Note the ;-) at the end of the sentence!
See the main reason I like the Jam is because you can learn about other bands
and hear their music too. DT themselves like other bands. They are not
static within their own circle becasue they have their side-projects and so it
goes on ..............
The Circle of Creativity, don't steal it now, I shall use that one as a song
title I think ;-)
N
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4308
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