YTSEJAM Digest 4807
Today's Topics:
1) APSoG.(II?)
by "Yan Gonzalez" <korg_74@hotmail.com>
2) What is UP with you ppl???
by nmcwatters@Welcom.com
3) Re: Long distance e-mail (ndtc)
by Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
4) Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
by mkizer@csc.com
5) Re: What is UP with you ppl???
by "James Lenart" <jalenart@hotmail.com>
6) Re: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
7) Re: APSoG.(II?)
by Andy Putman <ytse@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4805
by mjt <wilco@wybbs.mi.org>
9) asdf
by Daus Studenberg <daus@ufl.edu>
10) 34 minute tom sawyer ends world hunger!!
by bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
11) Re: ToT solos
by Jim Shields <jimbob213@mail.utexas.edu>
12) crushed by the cement mixer
by bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
13) amen corner
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
14) Re: FW, DT, ToT, and Ballads
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 15:37:44 PDT
From: "Yan Gonzalez" <korg_74@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: APSoG.(II?)
Message-ID: <19990414223745.51740.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hi y'all !I've seen the arguments that arose in this discussion, and
let me
tell ya that I haven't seen so contradictory opinions on the 'jam
(I'm in since october) since the "sold-outica"'s and ryche's nazism.
Cool. I just have to pick APSoG. It can't be THAT boring with so many
different opinions.
>From the title I can suppose it could have sadness all over the 55
mins. As a depressive maniac, I make y'all responsible for my crises
!;-)
Damn ! How you all people (and your brains, AND specially your pocket)
do to deal with such an amount of material to digest ! I will go
broke with all this.BTW. I've seen the (I think Chris's) evolutionary
chain:
pop-->heavy metal-->prog metal--->avant garde (did I miss something ?)
I totally agree. I guess is something natural. I'm 24 now and on the
3rd. stage. (Am I a little late ? ;))
See you...
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 18:08:42 -0500
From: nmcwatters@Welcom.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: What is UP with you ppl???
Message-ID: <D237B42AA971D211BC9400A0C98379B429E206@exchange.welcom.com>
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Hi,
What's UP with you guys? What is this, Spam-Jam? Ytse-Urban-Legends? Come
on, the gas thing, the long distance thing, the AIDS-infected needle in the
movie theater thing -- they're all HOAXES, URBAN LEGENS, FAKES, whatever you
want to call them. Don't go writing your congressman. Don't call the
Dallas PD about needles. Go to www.snopes.com and read for yourself.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but we've had a rash of these things at work,
and we're at the point where we'll practically be fired if we spread one
more of these supid things.
Also, sorry if this sends as MIME, but I'm testing out new server settings
anyway. Oh yeah, and go look at my radio stations Web page. :) URL below.
-Nicole/Kirby
Nicole Stachowicz McWatters Technical Writer
aka Kirby on irc.dreamt.org Welcom Publications Dept.
ytsekirby@geocities.com -or- nmcwatters@welcom.com
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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<TITLE>What is UP with you ppl???</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi,</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>What's UP with you guys? What is this, =
Spam-Jam? Ytse-Urban-Legends? Come on, the gas thing, the =
long distance thing, the AIDS-infected needle in the movie theater =
thing -- they're all HOAXES, URBAN LEGENS, FAKES, whatever you want to =
call them. Don't go writing your congressman. Don't call =
the Dallas PD about needles. Go to www.snopes.com and read for =
yourself.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sorry if this sounds harsh, but we've had a rash of =
these things at work, and we're at the point where we'll practically be =
fired if we spread one more of these supid things.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Also, sorry if this sends as MIME, but I'm testing =
out new server settings anyway. Oh yeah, and go look at my radio =
stations Web page. :) URL below.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-Nicole/Kirby</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Nicole Stachowicz McWatters =
</BODY>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:14:48 -0400
Greetings ye 'jamanoids...
Trent wrote:
Oh, God, not *again*. People, this rumor is just that, a rumor. It has been
http://www.urbanlegends.com/classic/modem_tax.html
ta,
=========================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:02:17 -0700
Here are some concert listings for Southern AZ that I found interesting (or
Up coming shows for Southern Arizona (from pollstar.com):
5/01/99 (Mesa Amphitheatre, Mesa) Meshuggah, Slayer, Sick Of It All
~Michael Kizer <mike@ivorygate.com> <ICQ # 2070538>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:00:21 PDT
>
<snip>
oh no!! you're not from the afu are you. we're all doomed! ;o)
(sorry 'bout that, just natural reflexes)
_______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 20:05:06 -0400 (EDT)
> 7/22/99 (Desert Sky Pavilion, PHX) OZZfest '99 featuring:
oh god, static x is playing ozzfest? egads they suck. hehe while i
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 16:11:25 -0400 (EDT)
> broke with all this.BTW. I've seen the (I think Chris's) evolutionary
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:07:31 -0400
>> other complaint was the end of The Way It Used To Be. Again, the "These
Is it coincidence that James LaBrie has only one song that made the album,
Is it coincidence?
mjt
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:42:26 -0400
From: Daus Studenberg <daus@ufl.edu>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: asdf
Message-ID: <01BE86C8.13601E00@ppp-07-ts9.nerdc.ufl.edu>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:42:53 -0500
From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: 34 minute tom sawyer ends world hunger!!
Message-ID: <199904150242.VAA13225@busprod.com>
bad over-argumentative-analogy of the day award goes to:
>Imagine if Rush had extended Tom Sawyer for 30 minutes leaving no room for
>Limelight on Moving Pictures (just as an example).
Imagine if they would have cut Tom Sawyer down to 4:33 minutes, leaving out
that magnificent 30 minute instrumental masterpiece that changed music
history forever and transcended the human race to new levels of musical
understanding and enlightenment.... ending war, hunger, conflicts between
man and forever ending cat vs. dog strife across the globe!!! Imagine the
depths of humanities loss!!! (just as bad an example)
you cant think like that, because then you'll find yourself second guessing
everything. Rush wrote Limelight, they liked it... it would have ended up on
some album sometime!
> I would just like to see them focus on their songs more than
>their talents. Sure, we all know they're some of the best players out
>there, but let's start checking their songwriting skills next.
they're learning, its a process... they have to go with their gut feelings
sometimes or you never write a song.
important lesson I've learned about any creative process including songwriting.
never judge how good a song is while your still writing it... go with the
initial idea and flesh it out, then trim what you feel doesnt fit/contribute
or add to the whole of the song. One thing I like about DT is that they're
not afraid to leave in long instrumental parts that they feel add to the
song. They realize that a good instrumental section can add something to
what might have been a relatively average song. Thats whats made them
trendsetters. They Dont automatically take the ax to the instrumental stuff
like so many other bands do. They have faith in their abilities to carry the
feel of the song with their talents.
Besides, they use the instrumental sections to learn to write creatively
with their instruments. And that only contributes to their overall
songwriting talents.
go with your gut.
bruce
bforst@busprod.com
"I cant take a vacation, because then I'll spend money on a trip while I'm
not making money and It'll cost twice and much!" - a friend who never took
road trips to see concerts.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:52:17 -0500
From: Jim Shields <jimbob213@mail.utexas.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: ToT solos
Message-ID: <l03130300b33b03010aaa@[128.83.154.188]>
>the CD for the most part with no complaints except for two parts... And
>that ToT midsection was one of them. He just skipped past that one.
>Strange how LtL doesn't bother him though.
not really. what makes ToT long is the rambling solos. What makes LtL
long is the musical interlude which isn't just solos. Solos are cool, but
if they extend too long, it can start to get boring. It seems like on LtL,
there was a major band effort put forth to write some super-badass music.
With ToT, they just throw down solos (badass ones, btw). I really like
ToT, but I think LtL is superior because the whole band and the music are
the focal point, not extended wanking.
Jim Shields
Guitar/vocals - Room 213
Undeclared Junior in Liberal Arts and Proud of it!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 22:10:37 -0500
From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: crushed by the cement mixer
Message-ID: <199904150310.WAA17988@busprod.com>
>consider the FW experience to being slowly crushed by a cement mixer.
haha.... you make a good point for both sides of the arguement!!!
>Or to be more expressive, FW is certainly takes a tad bit more
>listening time to fully comprehend the intricasies and emotional
>impact, but therein lies the magic.
you dont like PUFF DADDY?
you dont like VANILLA ICE?
you dont like WAYNE NEWTON?
you dont like BRITTNEY SPEARS?
you just need to listen to it more...
you're too daft to get the intracasies
you cant comprehend the emotional impact....
its all your fault you dont like something!!
I can understand the distinction between giving something a halfassed listen
then just dismissing it and giving something a fair listen before deciding
there's not much there to hold your attention. You shouldnt just state that
people who dont like something just dont get it.... maybe they do, and are
still unimpressed.
>Just thought I'd express the fact that FW, who have influenced
>Dt in some ways, and vice versa, to some extent, derserve more
>respect than they get. And I;m here to give it to 'em yeah.
.. and why do i sometimes get the feeling that there is more of a "lets
support the underdog" tone to the FW praise then genuine appreciation? If
you like the band, good for you... I do, I just dont think APSOG was all
that great.
>And for those who NEED to know, I would get Parallels,
>then Perfect Symmetry, followed by INSIDE OUT and
>lastly, No Exit. Then maybe Enchant - Blueprint of the World.
I agree. Perfect Symmetry, Parallels, and Inside Out are solid albums of
decent songs.
bruce
bforst@busprod.com
"I suspect I'm not making many friends today" -me
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:21:16 PDT
From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: amen corner
Message-ID: <19990415042117.93919.qmail@hotmail.com>
>NP: Spocks Beard-Day For Night <----- great album!!!
>If DT doesn't put anything out this year, then this one
>gets my vote for best album of 1999. They will take second
>place if that happens because it is going to be real hard
>for something to top this album IMO.
man, i hate statements like this, because it automatically assumes
that whatever Dream Theater puts out will automatically be the be all
and end all of whatever year's output of music it happens to
grace.....through a kind, kind soul, I got a tape dub of FII a month
before it came out, and for that month and for a little bit beyond
September 22, 1997, FII was the shit, the top shit, and nothing but
the shit for me, and it was firmly gonna be the #1 album of the
year.....and then a funny thing happened....October....
and suddenly, FII wasn't so shitty any more.....err, i mean, it
wasn't the shit anymore....errr....whatever.....
either way, come the end of the year, FII wasn't among my top five
discs, and based on albums I've picked up since 1997 ended, I don't
consider it among the top ten discs released that year.....(APSOG is
my #2 disc of 1997, fwiw)
moral of the story: don't automatically reserve a spot on that year
end best of list for a disc just because it happens to be created by
a certain name......
about the below.....Amen to that, Chambers is my personal drum god
>I doubt you ever heard a 24:30 drum solo! :) This Dennis man is a
>monster. This is the most intence drumming I ever heard in my life
partha
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:49:15 -0500
From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: FW, DT, ToT, and Ballads
Message-ID: <4.1.19990415002105.00948100@mail.msy.bellsouth.net>
Wow, lots of stuff to ramble about...hehe
Well, in the last couple of days I've done some CD buying, finally got
OiaLT, and also got Still Life by Fates Warning. Interesting couple of
live albums...both very different in many ways, and each shows some of the
strengths and weaknesses of the bands(Now, this is coming straight from
listening to the live albums, never having seen either band live, though
I'd love to, but here in New Orleans we don't get too much in the prog area...)
I kept in my mind the things that were being said on the Jam as I was
listening to the live APSoG, and I think that many things that were said
were not true, at least IMO...The songwriting was incredible, it was
well-laid out and arranged, and flowed well from part to part. One
strength to this was Ray Adler, who, unlike James LaBrie, has a similar
voice live as he does in the studio. The more I listen to him, the more I
like him. The drummer and bass player(I forget their names) were both
excellent, and showed some excellent DT-style time sig changes, and great
syncopated sections. The keyboardist left something to be desired, and
this by far was my biggest dissapointment, but then, they seem to focus
mostly on Jim Mattheos(who is a fine, though not spectacular, guitarist)
and Adler. I'm very glad I got it, though the recording quality of the
album could have been a little better, sometimes things were a little bit
out of balance.
Now, OiaLT blew me away with its recording quality, Kevin Shirley is
probably one of my favorite producers, he does great mixing stuff. I love
their selection of tunes, most of my favorites were there. Derek was
kick-ass, and really added a new element to songs like Take the Time. His
choices of sounds are so awesome, I'd love to get hold of those patches he
uses...:) It's also interesting how much he was focused on, which is
really nice, a very good balance between him and Petrucci. MP was
incredible as usual, he has always amazed me not only with his technique
but also tasteful choice of what rhythms and drums to use at different
points. What was negative about the album??? James...I really enjoy
listening to him on the studio things, but man, I really didn't care for
his performance here. Now, perhaps if I was there watching, it'd be
different, but it seemed to me like he was just going through motions
trying to get words out instead of actually singing melodies, unlike what
Adler was doing on Still Life. The other thing, and this is coming from a
guy raised on jazz and funk so I'm used to something new everytime I hear a
song, is that I was amazed how so many of Derek's and JP's solos sounded
like the record!!! Sure, there were a few changes, but for the most part
they stuck to the same basic thing that they did in the studio. I guess I
was expecting totally different solos, and I was really looking forward to
hearing their new interpretations and ideas...oh well.
As for the argument about ToT, this song is my 2nd fav after LitS on FII,
it is just amazing. For the people who complain about length and losing
it, well, I'm surprised that a DT fan would say that. DT has always been
about stretching songs out. I really loved the Pink Floyd elements found
in certain points, and the Wasteland section of the song just blew me away
with the atmosphere created in the arrangement. Derek's solo in the middle
was great, and like LitS, hearing that song makes me feel warm all over and
makes my day a good day...:)
As for the Ballads thing, here are some of my choices, just sticking to
Hard Rock and all...
QR-Silent Lucidity(The song that started it all for me), Anybody
Listening(great arrangement), Someone Else(Quite possibly the most
incredible vocal performance I've heard)
Pink Floyd-Hey You(Only Floyd song I could think of at the moment, their
stuff is so moody)
Aerosmith-Don't Want to Miss a Thing(I know, it's Diane Warren's song, but
this is gonna be my wedding song...hehe) What It Takes(Awesome ballad,
nuff said..heh) Hole in My Soul(Great R&B inflence in there) and
Cryin(same here, but with good horn parts)
Guns N Roses-Sweet Child of Mine(One of the great songs off of the greatest
debut album of all time) and November Rain(One of the best off of the Use
Your Illusion albums)
All I can think of for titles at the moment, but almost every hard rock
band has some ballads that really shine at some point or another
NP: Santana "Milagro"
------------------------------
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From: Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Long distance e-mail (ndtc)
Message-ID: <4.1.19990414191103.00967480@pop.usefulware.com>
>Sorry for the lack of content, but check this out.
>>CNN reported that in the next two weeks, Congress is
>>going to vote on allowing telephone companies to
>>charge for Internet access.
floating around since the early 90's. Can we let it die already?
Phil
Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com http://www.mindspring.com/~philcarter
Check out the Glass Hammer website at http://www.glasshammer.com/
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
-- Berthold Auerbach
From: mkizer@csc.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net, fates@listservant.com
Subject: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
Message-ID: <07256753.008381F0.00@cscmail.csc.com>
amusing):
5/12/99 (Mason Jar, PHX) Iced Earth, Nevermore, Obscure(?)
5/14/99 (Mason Jar, PHX) Flotsam & Jetsam, Obscure(?)
5/14/99 (Celebrity Theater, PHX) Tom Jones ;-)
5/15/99 (Mason Jar, PHX) Flotsam & Jetsam, Obscure(?)
5/15/99 (Celebrity Theater, PHX) Michael Schenker Group, Vinnie Moore
5/22/99 (Scottsdale Ctr. For Arts, Scottsdale) Keiko Matsui
6/30/99 (Desert Sky Pavilion, PHX) Spammy Hagar ;)
7/11/99 (Celebrity Theater, PHX) Peter Frampton ;)
7/22/99 (Desert Sky Pavilion, PHX) OZZfest '99 featuring:
(hed)pe, Apartment 26, Black Sabbath, Deftones, Drain STH,
Fear Factory, Godsmack, Ozzy Osbourne, Primus, Push Monkey,
Puya, Rob Zombie, Slayer, Slipknot, Static X, System of a Down
8/01/99 (Desert Sky Pavilion, PHX) Journey, Foreigner
8/11/99 (Celebrity Theater, PHX) Brian Setzer Orchestra
8/14/99 (Red River Opry, Tempe) Spyro Gyra
"Enter ivory gates through midnight skies..." - http://www.ivorygate.com
>>> Fates Warning ~ Island In The Stream <<<
>>> Dream Theater and Kevin Moore "Unofficial" Song Books <<<
>>> Listen to YtseRadio at: http://www.dreamt.org/ytseradio <<<
From: "James Lenart" <jalenart@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: What is UP with you ppl???
Message-ID: <19990415000022.55225.qmail@hotmail.com>
>What's UP with you guys? What is this, Spam-Jam?
>Ytse-Urban-Legends? Come on, the gas thing, the long distance-
>thing, the AIDS-infected needle in the movie theater thing --
>they're all HOAXES, URBAN LEGENS, FAKES,
>whatever you want to call them.
pretty soon we all won't be able to post an opinion without
cross-referencing it to 5 other sources....
eek
Jim Lenart
"Sorrowed"
icq: 25717769
URL: Mirror of Sorrow, the official Solitude Aeturnus site
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Palladium/5795/solitude.html
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990414200007.18394I-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
> (hed)pe, Apartment 26, Black Sabbath, Deftones, Drain STH,
> Fear Factory, Godsmack, Ozzy Osbourne, Primus, Push Monkey,
> Puya, Rob Zombie, Slayer, Slipknot, Static X, System of a Down
(unfortunately) missed then when i went to see slayer in atlanta, i had
the pleasure (?) of seeing them the next day in spartanburg with a bunch
of punk bands. haha the singer has this tall kid n play haircut, and a
stupid goatee and hes really short. it just looks really funny. hehe. no
offense to any short people with tall kid n play hair and stupid goatees
:) and lest you think i'm judging on appearance, the music sucks too.
hehe. oh well, fear factory, system of a down, primus, puya, slayer, and
rob zombie are cool. :) damn now that i think of it i really want to go to
ozzfest. heh. moo.
From: Andy Putman <ytse@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: APSoG.(II?)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990414160608.2697A-100000@goethe.baker.rice.edu>
> chain:
> pop-->heavy metal-->prog metal--->avant garde (did I miss something ?)
> I totally agree. I guess is something natural. I'm 24 now and on the
> 3rd. stage. (Am I a little late ? ;))
It was actually my idea. I guess you also have to add a couple side links
to the chain (genres you grow to enjoy, though they don't become your
primary listening choice). Between prog metal and avante garde I grew
into jazz, especially Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Between heavy metal
and prog metal I grew to really enjoy some orchestral music, especially
Mahler and Beethoven. As a side note, why is it that everyone on the list
likes fusion so much more than straight jazz? Fusion seems to me to lose
the point of jazz -- that wonderful feeling of tension and release, that
feeling you get when someone hits a damned good note, and makes your body
invonuntarly tense up. Fusion seems really fast and crazy, but not
especially deep. At least that's my opinion (which is probably completely
different from the rest of the lists. oh well).
-Andy Putman
From: mjt <wilco@wybbs.mi.org>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4805
Message-ID: <000601be86e4$b96ac400$1509c998@p233>
>> fuckers really know how to drag a song out" remark. Maybe it's a clue?
I
>
>Personally, TWIUTB is my favorite song from FII. ;-)
>
>In fact, the only complaint I have about the album is that that song
>didn't make the cut.
but several that didn't? I, personally, find some of the songs that didn't
a whole hell of a lot more emotional and well-written (as well as more fun
to listen to than the chorus of Hollow Years about eighty times...) than the
ones that did...
--
"Love is an act of blood and I'm bleeding
A pool in the shape of a heart."
-- Kevin Moore of Dream Theater, "Space-Dye Vest"
ICQ: 3856787