YTSEJAM Digest 4808
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Straight Jazz and Fusion
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
2) gas prices
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
3) What's wrong with me and Fate's
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
4) Re: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
by Vince LuPone <vgl@syspac.com>
5) Radio stations and music
by "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
6) Encore Covers Medley from the Sundance gig on bogies site
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
7) Re: Encore Covers Medley from the Sundance gig on bogies site
by Syrinx <syrinx@erotomania.org>
8) Been quiet of late...
by Dave Ware <dave.ware@walker.com>
9) ramblings
by Jens Johansson <jens@panix.com>
10) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4807
by John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com>
11) request
by John <yzzy@earthlink.net>
12) Re: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
13) alanis is GOD
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
14) Re: alanis is GOD
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
15) 11 letters multiplying like rabbits
by MusicSnob@aol.com
16) no dt. STEVE VAI FANS ** see
by Vaiman <vaiman@mindspring.com>
17) Stupid Question..Maybe??
by CLIFFBUR10@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:30:51 -0500
From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Straight Jazz and Fusion
Message-ID: <4.1.19990415012153.0094d320@mail.msy.bellsouth.net>
I agree, I spend alot more time listening to Stan Getz, Dave Brubeck, Jimmy
Smith, and Freddie Hubbard than I do Al Dimela and The Mahavishnu
Project...not saying that Al D and John Mc aren't great at what they do,
but straight-ahead jazz just has so much more raw energy to it that I find
wonderful to listen to. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who cares
more for regular jazz than Fusion...Another interesting thing though, is I
have an easier time with something like Blood Sweat and Tears and Chicago,
who are rock bands that put in a lot of jazz elements, than I do with
something like Pat Metheny(who's good at what he does, it's just not my
thing), who is supposed to be jazz but just sounds too rockish for my
taste(when I'm in that mode of listening)
interesting what my progression was, it kind of went:
jazz-classical-blues-metal-prog-funk...now I'm listening to it all now,
save for a lot of pure heavy metal like the old motley crue i used to
listen to...:)
> broke with all this.BTW. I've seen the (I think Chris's) evolutionary
> chain:
> pop-->heavy metal-->prog metal--->avant garde (did I miss something ?)
> I totally agree. I guess is something natural. I'm 24 now and on the
> 3rd. stage. (Am I a little late ? ;))
It was actually my idea. I guess you also have to add a couple side links
to the chain (genres you grow to enjoy, though they don't become your
primary listening choice). Between prog metal and avante garde I grew
into jazz, especially Miles Davis and John Coltrane. Between heavy metal
and prog metal I grew to really enjoy some orchestral music, especially
Mahler and Beethoven. As a side note, why is it that everyone on the list
likes fusion so much more than straight jazz? Fusion seems to me to lose
the point of jazz -- that wonderful feeling of tension and release, that
feeling you get when someone hits a damned good note, and makes your body
invonuntarly tense up. Fusion seems really fast and crazy, but not
especially deep. At least that's my opinion (which is probably completely
different from the rest of the lists. oh well).
-Andy Putman
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 23:40:36 PDT
From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: gas prices
Message-ID: <19990415064036.40605.qmail@hotmail.com>
the gas thing is no "ubran legend".. not only do i live 5 minutes from
the refinary that was shut down.. i'm a hardware/software tech at
shell martinez refinary and i can safely say that gas prices went up a
good .75$ in a week and if you drive an hour away they're .50$ less..
no urban legend..
inferno
>What's UP with you guys? What is this, Spam-Jam?
>Ytse-Urban-Legends? Come on, the gas thing, the long distance
>thing, the AIDS-infected needle in the <snip>
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:07:17 -0700
From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: What's wrong with me and Fate's
Message-ID: <37159025.9E4AB7D1@ucla.edu>
Wow, I'm actually replying to something instead of just scrolling
through the list of topics and hitting delete. Funny thing, I got the
thing about the HIV infected needles forwarded to me by the head of the
astrophysics department here at UCLA. I got the great American gas out
forwarded to me by a domain I have an account at. I don't know the
truth of any of these, but I only wish the CA gas bullshit were an urban
legend. I don't think I've seen prices so high since the Gulf war. All
because a refinery blew up or something.
I haven't been paying much attention to the Fate's discussion, but I
don't think APSoG is depressing. However, I tried to play it at work
about a month ago and it caused a systems crash and file dump. All the
more reason for me to learn Unix.
Regarding that pop-->heavy metal-->prog metal-->avante garde, try
adding in all the sub genres of metal, like death, black, and goth
metal. Then add in industrial, darkwave industrial, and punk. I've
heard that industrial is heavy metal's darker, more sample driven
cousin, and that prog metal is heavy metal's more technical cousin.
Guess we industrialites aren't so far off from the proggers.
~~Amanda (back to skim and delete)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 00:18:55 -0600
From: Vince LuPone <vgl@syspac.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts...
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990415001854.006c8dbc@pop02.syspac.com>
Mike Kizer wrote:
>Up coming shows for Southern Arizona (from pollstar.com):
>
>5/01/99 (Mesa Amphitheatre, Mesa) Meshuggah, Slayer, Sick Of It All
>5/12/99 (Mason Jar, PHX) Iced Earth, Nevermore, Obscure(?)
>5/14/99 (Mason Jar, PHX) Flotsam & Jetsam, Obscure(?)
>5/14/99 (Celebrity Theater, PHX) Tom Jones ;-)
>5/15/99 (Mason Jar, PHX) Flotsam & Jetsam, Obscure(?)
Lemme confirm. Obscure will be playing on the 14th with Flotsam & Jetsam.
If anyone plans on going, e-mail me and I can get you discount tickets.
oh, and BTW... Tom Jones? hahah :^)
Peace and love, and good happiness stuff,
Vince LuPone
Guitarist for Obscure
http://www.ivorygate.com/obscure/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 01:38:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Paul W. Cashman" <vanyel@crl.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Radio stations and music
Message-ID: <199904150838.AA25127@crl.crl.com>
Dan "not related to Kenny" McCormack wrote:
> Pellaz works at WREK, care to enlighten us, Paul? moo
Uh, actually, no-one works at WREK; like yours, it's a college station
entirely staffed by volunteers and (mostly by) Georgia Tech students.
I just "help out" with WREKage, the station's once-weekly
mmmetal/thrash/death show, and occasionally I get to play something
more interesting than their usual cookie-monster assortment. :) WREK
is interesting because at 40,000 watts, it's one of the most powerful
college radio stations in the country, and our show -- Atlanta's only
source on radio for, e.g., anything harder than Slayer -- is the
station's most popular show. One local survey a few years ago pegged
out listenership at between 6-8,000, which is pretty amazing for a)
death metal, and b) a college station. :)
Oh, our show's on 10pm Fri - 2am Sat, at cyberbuzz.gatech.edu/wrek --
the world's first radio station to broadcast a live RA feed.
[ Side note: I might be getting a show, to follow WREKage, as soon as
I can qualify. Progressive metal to start, trending toward prog-rock
later. Hope I can swing it..... ]
That being said, playlists at most commercial radio stations are
largely determined by outside companies called "playlist consultants,"
who base their playlists on marketing surveys, etc. There's probably
some exchange of green in there, too, either as cash or favors or (at
the very least) freebies and kickbacks. There are few industries uglier
than the record biz. Local music directors have some input, of
course, but most stations go with what the pollsters tell 'em.
As for MTV..... Straight pay-to-pay unless you're someone like
Metallica, or maybe 'N' Sync. heh
-- Paul W. Cashman | Listening to the city Whispering its violence vanyel@crl.com | I set out watching from above ICQ #4151223 | The 90s bring new questions New solutions to be found Dream Theater --> I fell in love to be let down------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 02:39:58 +0200 From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> To: YtseLand <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Encore Covers Medley from the Sundance gig on bogies site Message-ID: <3715355E.F5C372E5@mol.com.mk>
Which unfamiliar covers DT did in this jam???
They briefly play the Aqualung riff from Jethro Tull, that's 1! What is that song round about 5 minutes before the end, the music before the Dreggs cover??? And what is that stuff right AFTER the Dreggs stuuf, with keys solo??? -- CyberDuke, dreaming of DT covering the whole THICK AS A BRICK! Ahhh! ;o)
"Now that I know that I'm breaking to pieces I'll Pull out my heart and I'll feed it to anyone Crying for sympathy crocodile cry for the love of the crowd and the three cheers from everyone ..."
The Cure - Disintergration _______________________________________________________ Home Page http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Gym/3466/ E-mail duskob@mol.com.mk ICQ# 17392722 _______________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:14:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Syrinx <syrinx@erotomania.org> To: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> Subject: Re: Encore Covers Medley from the Sundance gig on bogies site Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.05.9904150713150.4573-100000@tempest.ocis.temple.edu>
> They briefly play the Aqualung riff from Jethro Tull, that's 1! > What is that song round about 5 minutes before the end, the music before > the Dreggs cover???
Would that be Billy Joel's "Angry Youg Man?"
> And what is that stuff right AFTER the Dreggs stuuf, with keys solo???
ELP: Karn Evil 9 (1st Impression, Part Two)
- m.
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= erotomania! - http://www.erotomania.org -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 08:15:46 -0500 From: Dave Ware <dave.ware@walker.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Been quiet of late... Message-ID: <82CD0BD64E68D211BDA00060975B3ACF31A600@bham-xchg1>
Hey Guys,
Dragging myself out of near-eternal lurk mode, I guess the lack of DTC has left me a little quiet of late, I'm guessing MP is being quiet for a reason, I think they want to hit us from the left field when the new album is ready - not before...
from Partha: >>Here's some power ballads I haven't seen mentioned (both by KI$$): >>"Forever" came out in '89 and went to #8 on the charts in early '90, >>so most people have probably heard it. It's probably the best song >>Michael Bolton ever had anything to do with writing. > >Michael Bolton wrote a Kiss song? I don't know whether to laugh or >to cry......that's like Al Dimeola playing a Kenny G composition.....
I can't see the suprise here, MB writes, at best, weak rock/pop song, Kiss write, at best, weak rock/pop songs, the collaboration makes sense to me. The cream floats to the top and the rest, er...well it doesn't really does it.
I woke up to three Police songs back-to-back-to-back on MTV2 this morning, that set my mood quite nicely.
Dave (a UK jammer - now in Alabama).
NP: Xentrix - Kin....
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 19:19:54 -0400 From: Jens Johansson <jens@panix.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: ramblings Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990414191954.006eda30@popserver.panix.com>
I have a deadline to meat, so what better way to avoid "meating" it it than posting some drivel?
[ptacek] > Vocals: Huun Huur Tu (Tuvan Throat Singers... unbelievable) > Guitars: Fareed Haque and Jason Becker (Jazz/classical/ethnic music master > and the king of all neoclassical purism) > Drums and Bass: Aphex Twin (for all electronic bass, ambience and beats) > and Trilok Gurtu (just to have someone go off!)
No, no, no.... Zakir.. not Trilok!
> Go find some new music to appreciate. Expand!
Anyone here hear of a guy named Ron Thal, by the way?
[james ahab] > > I've never understood why Queensryche is considered a "progressive" > I consider Queensryche progressive rock.
Anecdote here.. FWIW, I just spent a month and a half on a tour bus with 20 people, and QR/Mindcrime was the _ONLY_ CD we could put on without someone complaining after two minutes and wanting to change it for one of his/her own. Very much ahead of its time, and very musical.
[guillermo moloche] > > .. I always look for > > something different, something mind-expanding. That's why I really > > started getting into bands like King Crimson about a year ago. > .. Metal is like "baroque" in the sense that the genre > does impose constraints in the composer(s) and performers, and the > challenge is to produce interesting things under those constraints.
Exactly, constraints define the style. Without constraints you wouldn't have anything to recognize.. ;)
> You > should listen beyond "fast solos" and "high singers". It's like rejecting > books because they are made of paper.
The nail on the head!!!!
It's easy to get into heated arguments about music, especially when you confuse labels people use for music, opinions people have about music, and, hrm, music.
(Again, usually it all boils down to the same old question: "What is good music and what is bad music?" And we all know the answer...)
> Maybe prog-metal does not have > any relationship with "prog" and it could be better defined as "fusion" : > jazz-metal, symphony-metal, brazilian-metal etc. whatever you want.
FWIW, Prog Metal is the label most people use so it's a useful word. But it's not really prog (like 70s Genesis), and it's not really metal (like Manowar).
[Al Balkiewicz] > JULLIARD IS NO FUCKIN' GUARANTEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! > sorry - had to be done....
Right, I thought Julliard was a school? :)
(Q: Can you learn how to becaome a good composer in school? How about becoming a poet, inventor, mathematician, or hockey goal keeper? My take is that some things are difficult to teach above a certain level.. but maybe I didn't go to any good schools! :)
--- Jens. (offline) <jens@panix.com> (http://www.panix.com/~jens/)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 07:48:00 -0700 (PDT) From: John Parks <jpyyz@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4807 Message-ID: <19990415144800.3992.rocketmail@web114.yahoomail.com>
> >NP: Spocks Beard-Day For Night <----- great album!!! > >If DT doesn't put anything out this year, then this one > >gets my vote for best album of 1999. They will take > second > >place if that happens because it is going to be real > hard > >for something to top this album IMO. > > man, i hate statements like this, because it > automatically assumes > that whatever Dream Theater puts out will automatically > be the be all > and end all of whatever year's output of music it happens > to > grace.....
Thats why it was MY FUCKING OPINION!! Good grief, some of you are so uptight about everything. Everything DT has put out has blown ME away and still does every time I listen to it (which i will reiterate since you cant seem to grasp, is my opinion). If it doesn't still do the same thing to you when you listen to it, then to bad for you. I still consider everything DT has put out, to be the best stuff of all the releases that were put out the same year DT released something, (this again is MY OPINION)
later all
=== John Parks jpyyz@yahoo.com
So much style without substance So much stuff without style Its hard to recognize the real thing It comes along once in a while. -Neil Peart- _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 09:50:41 -0500 From: John <yzzy@earthlink.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: request Message-ID: <4.1.19990415094849.00911a80@mail.earthlink.net>
Today's my best friend's birthday and she' s not too thrilled about it. I was wondering if I could get some of you to visit her web site and sign her guestbook with happy birthday wishes. *john grins mischeviously* her url: http://millennium.fortunecity.com/safari/511/
thanx in advance, john
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 12:26:23 -0500 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Off Topic: Up coming Arizona concerts... Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990415172623.006f2198@pi-r-squared.com>
At 05:06 PM 4/14/99 -0700, you wrote: > >> 7/22/99 (Desert Sky Pavilion, PHX) OZZfest '99 featuring: >> (hed)pe, Apartment 26, Black Sabbath, Deftones, Drain STH, >> Fear Factory, Godsmack, Ozzy Osbourne, Primus, Push Monkey, >> Puya, Rob Zombie, Slayer, Slipknot, Static X, System of a Down
Push Monkey?! Damn! I saw them at this small club over here which usually only features ska(I was takin my brother there, he was visiting and bored). I remember thinkin they were pretty cool, and then I saw they had toured with Dt... and now they're playing Ozzfest. Cripes I had no idea these guys were that big when I saw them.
Palpatine Co Founder of Pi-R-Squared productions: www.pi-r-squared.com "Thank God I'm an aetheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "Perhaps god gave the answers to those with nothing to say"- Savatage: Somewhere in time
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 11:00:20 PDT From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: alanis is GOD Message-ID: <19990415180020.41288.qmail@hotmail.com>
my anticipation of the new Kevin Smith movie (Dogma), which was just started up yesterday with my discovery that it was in production (where have i been?) has been slightly dampened by this following piece of casting information taken from the internet movie database....
Alanis Morissette .... God
i guess that's balanced by Chris Rock as the unknwn 13th apostle, rufus......and the rest of the cast, huge names all around (affleck, garofalo, etc).....guess Smith's "indie" days are in the past, huh?
can't wait
partha
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 13:35:05 -0500 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: alanis is GOD Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990415183505.006e8cfc@pi-r-squared.com>
At 11:05 AM 4/15/99 -0700, you wrote: > >my anticipation of the new Kevin Smith movie (Dogma), which was just >started up yesterday with my discovery that it was in production >(where have i been?) has been slightly dampened by this following >piece of casting information taken from the internet movie >database.... > >Alanis Morissette .... God > >i guess that's balanced by Chris Rock as the unknwn 13th apostle, >rufus......and the rest of the cast, huge names all around (affleck, >garofalo, etc).....guess Smith's "indie" days are in the past, huh?
he's definitely got a lot of big names signed up for this one, but a lot of are either big names in the indie community, or started off there. Kevin has never been what I think of as an "indie filmmaker" anyway. When I think of indie I think of a bunch of angst filled men and women who are so desperate to be "different" that they'll call even Fellini's 8 1/2 too mainstream. A lot of it's not real filmmaking... it's just non-conformity (though I will admit that I'd rather watch a thousand fake non conformist indie films than 1 or 2 movies of studio produced crap). With Chasing Amy, however, Kevin seemed to break from that whole mentality... Dogma is going to kick ass, and it's probably going to be the most controversial "religious" film since the Last Temptation of Christ. Kevin and Miramax want it to be released on Christmas... they're really itchin for those protests.
Palpatine Co Founder of Pi-R-Squared productions: www.pi-r-squared.com "Thank God I'm an aetheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "Perhaps god gave the answers to those with nothing to say"- Savatage: Somewhere in time
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 15:19:15 EDT From: MusicSnob@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: 11 letters multiplying like rabbits Message-ID: <104e65bc.244795b3@aol.com>
Stupidberg wrote all this, just to unsubcribe:
eJ8+Ih0CAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3 NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEEkAYAAAEAAAEAAAAMAAAAAwAAMAIAAAALAA8O AAAAAAIB/w8BAAAAOwAAAAAAAACBKx+kvqMQGZ1uAN0BD1QCAAAAAHl0c2VqYW1AYXguY29tAFNNVF AAeXRzZWphbUBheC5jb20AAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAPAAAAeXRzZWphbUBh eC5jb20AAAMAFQwBAAAAAwD+DwYAAAAeAAEwAQAAABEAAAAneXRzZWphbUBheC5jb20nAAAAAAIBCz ABAAAAFAAAAFNNVFA6WVRTRUpBTUBBWC5DT00AAwAAOQAAAAALAEA6AQAAAAIB9g8BAAAABAAAAAAA AALYKQEEgAEABQAAAGFzZGYAngEBBYADAA4AAADPBwQADgAWACoAGgADAEUBASCAAwAOAAAAzwcEAA 4AFgApACUAAwBPAQEJgAEAIQAAADRFMjJCMzNGNzdGMkQyMTE4RUQ1NDQ0NTUzNTQwMDAwAOEGAQOQ BgCcAQAAFAAAAAsAIwAAAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAAAAAAMALgAAAAAAAwA2AAAAAABAADkAQJ5Dme mGvgEeAHAAAQAAAAUAAABhc2RmAAAAAAIBcQABAAAAFgAAAAG+humZOnXCuGPyuhHSjtVERVNUAAAA AB4AHgwBAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgAfDAEAAAANAAAAZGF1c0B1ZmwuZWR1AAAAAAMABhB9tDMbAw AHEBYAAAAeAAgQAQAAABcAAABVTlNVQlNDUklCRURBVVNAVUZMRURVAAACAQkQAQAAAHoAAAB2AAAA 1gAAAExaRnXLtAfB/wAKAQ8CFQKkA+QF6wKDAFATA1QCAGNoCsBzZXTuMgYABsMCgzIDxgcTAoD+fQ qACM8J2QKACoENsQtgwG5nMTAzMwr7EvJJAdAgdQCAdWIE8mIAZSBkYXVzQHW1FlAuCYB1CoUT8QAa UAAAAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAAAAAEAABzDA+9176Ya+AUAACDDA+9176Ya+AR4APQABAAAAAQAAAAAAAA ADAA00/TcAAIZW
You know, that was mighty profound. *sigh*
NP: Iron Savior - Iron Savior
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 16:34:34 -0700 From: Vaiman <vaiman@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: no dt. STEVE VAI FANS ** see Message-ID: <199904152035.QAA06499@smtp2.mindspring.com>
Just found this at Steve Vai's WEB SITE. Here is a direct link to his Chat room:
http://209.160.97.10:8080/eshare/server?action=4
or ( www.vai.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 17:14:41 EDT From: CLIFFBUR10@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Stupid Question..Maybe?? Message-ID: <e446be38.2447b0c1@aol.com>
i was downloading some dt mp3's today from a dt ftp site, when i came across a fold called dream theater antiquities??? does anyone know if this is like a special bootleged show or what?? i never heard of it and if someone could fill me in i would appreciate it.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4808 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 18:09:49 EST