YTSEJAM Digest 5223
Today's Topics:
1) Re: The Dance? of Eternity
by "Timo Virkkala" <wt@nic.fi>
2) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
3) Primus ticket
by Jared <jmrodecker@ucdavis.edu>
4) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
5) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
by Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com>
6) bla bla
by CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
7) Re: bla bla
by Trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
8) New PLANET X Demo now available!
by Chroma914@aol.com
9) Egberto Gismonti
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@iname.com>
10) Grabbing the bull by the testes...
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
11) The Final Cut/ The Wall Live
by Fett2002@aol.com
12) Re:Dance? of Eternity
by Fett2002@aol.com
13) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
by "M P" <mremann6@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
14) DT @ Massey Hall for Y2K
by "Lauzon, Gary: #IHAB-NGR - AAI-RND" <Lauzon.Gary@ic.gc.ca>
15) UK dates
by Graham Borland <graham@picsel.com>
16) interview with the vampire
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
17) The Silmarillion
by mams.gajic@t-online.de (Alex Gajic)
18) Re: interview with the vampire
by "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
19) News update !!!!
by =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnar?= Bevolden <bjornar.bevolden@hm.telia.no>
20) Re: interview with the vampire
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
21) Re: interview with the vampire
by "Jake Hill" <j_hil@oz.plymouth.edu>
22) Re: The Silmarillion
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 23:04:29 +0200
From: "Timo Virkkala" <wt@nic.fi>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: The Dance? of Eternity
Message-ID: <002001bf402d$bca68980$da63ec3e@pentium>
>Did anyone notice that the *Dance* of Eternity is in fact the least
>danceable song on the whole CD? I think it goes through so many time
>signature changes that it's impossible for anyone to keep pace.
>And also - isn't the dance of eternity supposed to be love? Very cha-
>otic love indeed if you see how DT depicts it.
Well, technically, it's not "Dance of the 90s", it's Dance of Eternity =)
-WT-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 13:21:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.991206131701.9025A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote:
>
>Date: Sun, 5 Dec 1999 15:50:23 EST
>From: Portnoy420@aol.com
>To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
>Subject: Pull My Finger
>Message-ID: <0.3138afa3.257c2a0f@aol.com>
>
>
>Matt Johnson wrote:
>"Listening to the Medely of I&W/WDADU songs from the Lux. concert, and I
>had to laugh out loud at james singing our favorite filk chorus:
>
>There's other little things, like the way he sings "arrows fly" (my
>God!) at the beginning. I used to think James was making fun of the
>material when he did stuff like this. Now, I *know* he is, and I don't
>mind a bit! :)?">>>>
>----------------------
>MP:
>Actually, James had nothing to do with that...his mic was out to the
>audience.....
ah... I see now...
>That was me and John Petrucci....
>John lost a bet to me that afternoon, so he had to sing these lyrics for
>me....
>
Ooh! What was the bet? Gotta know gotta know!
>BTW - the last line is: "Pull My Finger... I gotta fart"
>
>
Aww... I liked frog better...
So Mike, it was James who yelled "Fucking Hostile" as the beginning of
Fortune In Lies, right?
And of course, the swing section of UAGM... and "I can keep Terry
alive" (I'm assuming terry Brown, naturally) -- you guys seem to be
having so much fun!
Keep it up, and I hope to see you in Portland next year!
--Matt ("Arrows FLYYYYYYYYY!")
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 13:23:24 -0800
From: Jared <jmrodecker@ucdavis.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Primus ticket
Message-ID: <199912062122.NAA08337@pop3.ucdavis.edu>
I had to change my plans and need to get rid of a ticket for the New Year's
Eve Primus show in Oakland. I'll sell it at a major discount if any
jammers are interested. Email me privately.
Jared
jmrodecker@ucdavis.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:37:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9912061636340.15877-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Matt Johnston wrote:
> So Mike, it was James who yelled "Fucking Hostile" as the beginning of
> Fortune In Lies, right?
>
> And of course, the swing section of UAGM... and "I can keep Terry
> alive" (I'm assuming terry Brown, naturally) -- you guys seem to be
> having so much fun!
>
> Keep it up, and I hope to see you in Portland next year!
> --Matt ("Arrows FLYYYYYYYYY!")
Okay, where can I find a recording of this show?! I gotta hear it!
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
I like to go down to the dog pound and pretend
that I've found my dog. Then I tell them to kill
it anyway because I already gave away all of his
stuff. Dog people sure don't have a sense of
humor.
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 15:16:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Janne Jokitalo <janne_jokitalo@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222
Message-ID: <19991206231649.9908.qmail@web302.mail.yahoo.com>
--- Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> wrote:
>
> Okay, where can I find a recording of this show?! I gotta hear it!
>
Some guy mentioned all those fun parts were in Luxembourg gig, go download it
from Bogie's site (http://dreamtheater.mit.edu). I haven't had time to listen
to it, so can't confirm this.
=====
Janne Jokitalo
Boss Information: jaska@boss.fi
Jyväskylä University: jajokita@st.jyu.fi
Homepage: http://www.jyu.fi/~jajokita
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 02:53:11 +0100
From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: bla bla
Message-ID: <384C6887.80940ABC@mol.com.mk>
> From: Fernando Rauber <ferer@conex.com.br>
>
> NP: Egberto Gismonti - Sol Do Meio Dia
Christ I can't believe I see this name on the jam! :) Guys, this dude is
one hell of a guitarist and musician. I think he is also some Berkeley
or so graduate, he teaches too I think.
If you're familiar with the wizard Nana Vasconcelous, this dude is guest
on his albums. Great stuff!!! Check it out
> From: Trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
>
> Congratulations man. I'm 19 and obviously I don't
> have any children yet
Never say never! ;)
In some countries, in some cultures, man on your age has their 1-st son
helping them in the fields. ;)))
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:10:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: bla bla
Message-ID: <19991207031032.4283.qmail@web506.mail.yahoo.com>
I wrote--
> > Congratulations man. I'm 19 and obviously I don't
> > have any children yet
Which made the CyberDuke ponder his outlook on life--
> Never say never! ;)
>
> In some countries, in some cultures, man on your age
> has their 1-st son helping them in the fields. ;)))
Yeah, but I'm an American, so I have at least six more
years to be a slacker. ;o)
=====
*Trent
"There's colors on the street. Red, white & blue.
People shuffeling their feet. People sleeping in their shoes.
There's a warning sign on the road ahead. There's a lot of people thinking we'd be better off dead.
Don't feel like Satan, but I am to them.
So I try to forget them anyway I can."
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:12:47 EST
From: Chroma914@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: New PLANET X Demo now available!
Message-ID: <0.130e3967.257dd52f@aol.com>
]From MoneyShot, the official Planet X/Derek Sherinian mailing list:
]From: Chroma914@aol.com
To all the members of the list-
The "Universe" demo is now available for purchase. Here is all the
information that is available for the disc at this present time:
- The cd will contain 3 demos from the upcoming debut album by PLANET X.
Featured on the tracks are Derek Sherinian on keys, Virgil Donati on drums,
and Tony MacAlpine on guitar and bass.
- The demo will be limited to a pressing of 100 copies, which will all be
signed by Derek, Virgil, and Tony.
- As I already mentioned above, the demo will contain 3 new tracks by PX,
plus surprise bonus tracks as well.
- The cost of the demo (and shipping) is US $20 for those living in the
United States, and US $25 for those living in the rest of the country.
**Payment must be in the form of a Postal Money Order made out to Derek
Sherinian. No other forms of payment will be accepted** Please send all
payments, along with a shipping address, to the address below:
Derek Sherinian
3940 Laurel Canyon Bvld. P.O. Box #442
Studio City CA 91604
- All orders will be filled by January 31st 2000.
This is all the information on the 'Universe Demos' disc that is known as of
December 3rd, 1999. If you have any questions concerning the demo, please
feel free to email me, Matt Smith, at Chroma914@aol.com
Cya all on Planet X,
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 02:27:22 -0200
From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@iname.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Egberto Gismonti
Message-ID: <19991207022722.C593@iname.com>
On Dec 06 1999, CyberDuke wrote:
>
> > From: Fernando Rauber <ferer@conex.com.br>
> >
> > NP: Egberto Gismonti - Sol Do Meio Dia
>
> Christ I can't believe I see this name on the jam! :) Guys, this dude is
> one hell of a guitarist and musician. I think he is also some Berkeley
> or so graduate, he teaches too I think.
The fact is that Egberto Gismonti is perhaps too much even for
the so-called "open minded" prog metal fans...
And Fernando, you've got a helluva taste, huh? :-) Perhaps you
should check out Egberto's "Feixe de Luz", if you can find it
(I'm trying, and I can't).
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@iname.com - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/ Nectar homepage: http://www.linux.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/opeth/ =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1999 22:41:43 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Grabbing the bull by the testes... Message-ID: <000901bf4075$d3819760$7a0d84d0@safelink.net>
Well, since no one has yet to let me know where to find Pink Floyd's When the Tigers Broke Free on the net, I took it upon myself to rip the audio track off of the DVD and make it myself, combining the two sections from the movie into one song... Worked rather well, too. If anyone cares you can download it at http://www.safelink.net/washburn/pink_floyd-when_the_tigers_broke_free.mp3
Enjoy! :) To me, this song is equivalent to DT's To Live Forever. It's like the forbidden fruit or something... Anyway... -- KorgX3 makes a new PF CD for his car. Woo woo! NP: Pink Floyd - Dogs.mp3
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:51:23 EST From: Fett2002@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: The Final Cut/ The Wall Live Message-ID: <0.e880a6a7.257dfa5b@aol.com>
>IMHO, the album is OK, but definitely not as Wall or WYWH. It seems like >very atmospheric album, doesn't have so much music, it's more ambientic. >I guess as a PF fan you SHOULD get. It's decent. Blah, forget that, I >have a friend who really likes it! :) So, it's up to you.
Thanks. lol. I was probably gonna get the thing anyway but it was just a matter of when really! I'll probably wait a little while though. Last I heard though, they were planning on releasing a live Wall album recorded in the early 80's and including some stuff that's not on the original. Anybody hear anything new on this? -Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:57:32 EST From: Fett2002@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re:Dance? of Eternity Message-ID: <0.83a148f9.257dfbcc@aol.com>
>Did anyone notice that the *Dance* of Eternity is in fact the least >danceable song on the whole CD? I think it goes through so many time >signature changes that it's impossible for anyone to keep pace. >And also - isn't the dance of eternity supposed to be love? Very cha- >otic love indeed if you see how DT depicts it.
Yeah, the dance of eternity is love alright, but love in the album's storyline also includes a guy killing the girl he loves and his own brother! So that IS kind of chaotic! By the way, WAY too many people get killed in concept albums I noticed. Sure it works our cool for the listener but not for those in the story! Wouldn't it suck to only exist in a concept album? Cause chances are, you're gonna be toast within 77 minutes or so! Half serious, half kidding here, -Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 99 08:20:30 -0500 From: "M P" <mremann6@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5222 Message-ID: <58CE546F60CA3D110804000A9C0B5C5E@mremann6.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
]From: mams.gajic@t-online.de (Alex Gajic) Subject: The Dance? of Eternity
>Yo, Jammers! >Did anyone notice that the *Dance* of Eternity is in fact the least >danceable song on the whole CD? I think it goes through so many time >signature changes that it's impossible for anyone to keep pace.
sounds like a challenge to us. ;)
>And also - isn't the dance of eternity supposed to be love? Very cha- >otic love indeed if you see how DT depicts it.
it's the 3rd of three dances. At least one of the others (Deceit) is very convoluted.
JAJUID
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:19:12 -0500 From: "Lauzon, Gary: #IHAB-NGR - AAI-RND" <Lauzon.Gary@ic.gc.ca> To: "'DT'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: DT @ Massey Hall for Y2K Message-ID: <199912071325.FAA12501@fugazi.torchsong.com>
wow!!!
I just want to say that I went to see Yes there 2 days ago.. and it was awesome.. in spite of some echo.. and the seats had no space between them..! But it's where Rush played their All the World's a stage album. I so hope this is true!!!
Mr. ProG
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 18:06:02 +0000 (GMT) From: Graham Borland <graham@picsel.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: UK dates Message-ID: <496ccb4ffcgraham@picsel.com>
ReSent-From: Graham Borland <graham@picsel.com> ReSent-To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Is anyone planning on going to all three DT shows in the UK in April? And how big is the Shepherd's Bush Empire, compared to the Forum?
-- Graham Borland Picsel Technologies Ltd graham@picsel.com Glasgow, Scotland
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 10:21:00 PST From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: interview with the vampire Message-ID: <19991207182100.78597.qmail@hotmail.com>
Don't know how old this interview is, so maybe everyone's seen it already, but i hadn't, and so I thought I'd share
http://www.noisyfans.com/derek.htm
and interview with Mr. Sherinian.....par for the course, a few digs at Dream TheatRE (see below) (note:the spelling is probably the fault of the site/interviewer), word on the next Planet X album (they're trying to finish, perhaps release it by March, before going on tour), and a few other tidbits.....
interesting stuff
Partha
from the interview: DS: That was one of the problems I had in the last band that I was in (Dream Theatre) is that there was a rock and roll spirit that was definitely not there. I come from a background of Kiss and Alice Cooper where it was like a carnival. For me to go out on tour is to have fun, meeting the fans, going fucking crazy and having a blast out there.
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 19:24:15 +0100 From: mams.gajic@t-online.de (Alex Gajic) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: The Silmarillion Message-ID: <m11vPHb-00040zC@fwd10.btx.dtag.de>
Jammers -
you're looking for a Tolkienphile, you got him here...:
afaik Tolkien first published the 'Hobbit' in 1935, then he started writing the Silmarillion, because he wanted to start with Middle-Earth's History right from the beginning. However, it became his secondary project, when he started writing The Lord of the Rings, his greatest work, which was published in 1955. He never fully completed the Silmarillion but his son Christopher Tolkien edited and assembled his notes and published it in 1977. Since then a few other middle-earth books with assembled notes have been published and they're hard to read when you're no die-hard Tolkien-Fan.
For all of you who want more info, take a look at http://www.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/u/relipper/tolkien/rootpage.html
Alex
-- Alex Gajic [alex.gajic@leibnetz.de]
Visit my websites... WIDE AWAKE @ http://WideAwake.freesite.de/ THE FANATASY QUEST @ http://www.FanatasyQuest.cjb.net MEMORIJA @ http://jugendgruppe.taunusbuehne.de/
* Every breath takes me one less to my last * PULL ME UNDER (Dream Theater)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:43:05 -0500 From: "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: interview with the vampire Message-ID: <004201bf40e2$e60b25a0$b2589780@BLARGH>
Partha so kindly graced us with this link:
> http://www.noisyfans.com/derek.htm
> interesting stuff
Yah, it's pretty cool, but what I like the best is this line:
"Virgil plays in 7/4 and 5/4 and 13/11 but he makes it feel like a 4/4, where a lot of drummers will switch sections in an odd time signature and it doesn't sound right. Virgil is a natural at making it all sound right."
Hell, I knew Virgil was good.....but to invent a new sig and still make it feel like 4/4 - that's just godly..... Hey Portnoy - there'd better be some 13/11 played on the tour or else Virgil's my main man from now on! ;-)
Scott.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 19:48:07 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rnar?= Bevolden <bjornar.bevolden@hm.telia.no> To: "ytsejam@torchsong.com" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: News update !!!! Message-ID: <384D6477.D026E7BF@hm.telia.no>
Hello ! A massive news-update at the Barcode site. Over 70 new articles on bands such as; Freedom Call, Sinner, Narnia, Scuderio, Nightwish, Danny Danzi, Quiet Room, Demons and Wizards, Ayreon, House of Shakira, Street Talk, Ivory Tower, Dreams Of Sanity, Steel Prophet, Harlan Cage, Ransom, Spastic Inc, Eternity X, Heir Apparent, Heartland, Phantoms Opera, Second Nature, Van Halen Tribute, Hugo, Stuart Smith, Sonata Artica, Symphorce, Kamelot, Savatage, Stratovarius, Balance Of Power etc..
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Be sure to visit Barcode to stay updated on what`s happening in the world of metal.
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Regards, Dylan and Bj=F8rnar, Norway ! NP:Balance of Power-Ten more tales of grand illusion --=20 Writer for: Barcode: http://zap.to/barcode Through Different Eyes: http://hem2.passagen.se/caxen/ DJ for Seismic Radio Mondays 6-7pm: http://www.seismicradio.com/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:50:16 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: interview with the vampire Message-ID: <000e01bf40e3$ee10de60$0201010a@meserver.meserver.com>
>Hell, I knew Virgil was good.....but to invent a new sig and still make it >feel like 4/4 - that's just godly..... Hey Portnoy - there'd better be some >13/11 played on the tour or else Virgil's my main man from now on! ;-)
No way, man. It's all about 5/12. Doh. Let's not start that up again... Then again, let's do! Jeez, the jam has been horribly boring and informative lately. GROUP ORGY! Woo! -- KorgX3 is bored shitless. NP: Fish - Jungle Ride.mp3
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:09:50 -0800 From: "Jake Hill" <j_hil@oz.plymouth.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: interview with the vampire Message-ID: <001001bf40ff$c8503100$86ab889e@plymouth.edu>
----- Original Message ----- ]From: Korg Ecksthrey <korgx3@safelink.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 11:02 AM Subject: Re: interview with the vampire
> > >Hell, I knew Virgil was good.....but to invent a new sig and still make it > >feel like 4/4 - that's just godly..... Hey Portnoy - there'd better be > some > >13/11 played on the tour or else Virgil's my main man from now on! ;-) > > > No way, man. It's all about 5/12. Doh. Let's not start that up again... > Then again, let's do! Jeez, the jam has been horribly boring and > informative lately. GROUP ORGY! Woo! > -- > KorgX3 is bored shitless. > NP: Fish - Jungle Ride.mp3
Hey Korgy.... I'll bring the whipped cream :)
NP: Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 07 Dec 1999 14:26:25 -0600 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: The Silmarillion Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991207202625.0163e76c@pi-r-squared.com>
At 10:41 AM 12/7/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Jammers - > >you're looking for a Tolkienphile, you got him here...: > >afaik Tolkien first published the 'Hobbit' in 1935, then he started writing the >Silmarillion, because he wanted to start with Middle-Earth's History right from >the beginning. However, it became his secondary project, when he started writing >The Lord of the Rings, his greatest work, which was published in 1955. He never >fully completed the Silmarillion but his son Christopher Tolkien edited and >assembled his notes and published it in 1977. Since then a few other middle-earth >books with assembled notes have been published and they're hard to read when >you're no die-hard Tolkien-Fan.
I was right then. Cool. I tried reading the Silmarillion a long time ago, and couldn't get very far. I might try again after I finish my second read of LOTR.
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 5223 **************************
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