YTSEJAM Digest 4700
Today's Topics:
1) Re: cabbage rolls and saigon kicking
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
2) re: blues
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
3) Re: If you want proof that polls lie... (NDTC)
by "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com>
4) NIN lyrics
by "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com>
5) Re: NIN lyrics
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4695
by "Jonathan J.S. Tischio" <tischio@caip.rutgers.edu>
7) re: mp3s
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
8) Grrrrrrrr
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
9) Re: Ozric Tentacles and breasts
by Dale R Newberry <schnapster@juno.com>
10) DT Tribute Clarification
by "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
11) re: my take on narrow mindedness serious NDTC
by AEllis1222@aol.com
12) Re: NIN lyrics
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
13) Re: NIN
by "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com>
14) Fear of the Hand of Ptacek smiting my breasts.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
15) Re: 311... Pearl Jam, Nirvana... etc..
by "Trent Thornton" <stairway2kashmir@hotmail.com>
16) Re: my take on narrow mindedness serious NDTC
by "Trent Thornton" <stairway2kashmir@hotmail.com>
17) tributary requirements?
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
18) Re: Fear of the Hand of Ptacek smiting my breasts.
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:27:41 -0600
From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: cabbage rolls and saigon kicking
Message-ID: <iss.4327.36d4a701.bcc31.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding To: "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
Original Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 13:31:23 -0800 (PST)
> Im in no way a NiN fan, at least not yet, althought i enjoy the Quake 1
> soundtrack, but arent you judging and dismissing his entire catalogue of
> songs for one sentence of one track?!
No, I merely used that sentence as an example to refute the original
poster's claim that NIN has "deep" lyrics. Someone may think this is deep,
if you do, don't bother beating me over the head about it, cause I really
don't care.
In-my-oh-so-mutherfucking-god-forbid-I-offend-anyone-trying-as-hard-as-ghan
di-to-be-open-minded-opinion, those lyrics are crap and you won't change my
mind. Yes, I've listened to two of their albums all the way through,
repeatedly. I've heard NIN many many times. I don't like them. If you think
that makes me closed-minded, ignore me while I laugh at you.
:)
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:49:20 PST
From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: re: blues
Message-ID: <19990225014921.12278.qmail@hotmail.com>
>to sum up KWS and johnny lang, and all the other BB King
>wannabe's I mearly quote George Carlin....White people have
>no business playing the blues...EVER!
>
>Matt
johnny winter.. as white as it gets and as blue as it gets at the same
time.. you can't tell me that white people can't play the blues..
get "second winter" or "live and johnny winter"..
inferno
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:55:36 -0800
From: "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: If you want proof that polls lie... (NDTC)
Message-ID: <199902250155.SAA07527@if.scientech.com>
"mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com" wrote:
> to sum up KWS and johnny lang, and all the other BB King wannabe's I
> mearly
> quote George Carlin....White people have no business playing the
> blues...EVER!
Evidently, Mr. Carlin has never heard of Stevie Ray Vaughan, Little
Charlie Baty, Duane Allman, Elvin Bishop, or Jimmy Vaughan -- to name
just a few amazing blues guitarists who happen to be white.
-Paul
-------------
Paul Humm
phumm@scientech.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:12:34 -0800
From: "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: NIN lyrics
Message-ID: <199902250212.TAA08085@if.scientech.com>
Brian, in his continued crusade against NIN, wrote:
> Ummm, try again. You're not even close. "I wanna fuck you like an animal"
> bears no resemblence to "found a new girl think we can make it" to anyone
> with a brain.
Then how about the line from "Young Lust" by Pink Floyd: "Oooh... I
need a dirty woman." Sure, it isn't on the same level as I want to
f*** you...", but it easily could give someone a very wrong
impression of that song (or of the entire "The Wall" album) if all
they heard was that one line.
If you really don't think that there is any meaning in Trent Reznor's
lyrics, then I suggest you listen to his first album "Pretty Hate
Machine." The lyrics are very dark and angry -- I'll give you that.
But that doesn't keep them from being some of the coolest lyrics I've
ever heard. (Not to mention that the music kicks ass.)
-Paul
-------------
Paul Humm
phumm@scientech.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:24:26 -0600
From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: NIN lyrics
Message-ID: <iss.65f9.36d4b458.d6ace.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding To: "Paul Humm" <phumm@scientech.com>
Original Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:28:58 -0800 (PST)
> If you really don't think that there is any meaning in Trent Reznor's
> lyrics, then I suggest you listen to his first album "Pretty Hate
> Machine." The lyrics are very dark and angry -- I'll give you that.
> But that doesn't keep them from being some of the coolest lyrics I've
> ever heard. (Not to mention that the music kicks ass.)
I never said there was no meaning in his lyrics. There's meaning of some
sort in almost any lyric. I just don't think it's particularly deep or
interesting. Some of the music I actually like, when the 'techno' influence
is less overwhelming. For example, I like the music for "closer." I just
think the lyrics are stupid. They make me laugh.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:29:18 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jonathan J.S. Tischio" <tischio@caip.rutgers.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4695
Message-ID: <199902250229.VAA05129@caip.rutgers.edu>
There are earplugs made that are tapered. They're made by the same
company that makes the yellow cylindrical ones (EAR i think?).
>ATTENTION ALL DRUMMERS:
>
>Just a question for you....I think I have smaller ear canals that most
>people or something because ear plugs just WON'T go in for me. Just curious
>if anyone else out there has this problem and what their solutions are. Any
>help is greatly appreciated, but please, not on the jam as I'm sure most
>people don't want to hear about my too small ear canals :)
>
>Scott.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 18:29:35 PST
From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: re: mp3s
Message-ID: <19990225022938.7213.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Oh, grow up! I'm sure full-time musicians really appreciate
>having their livelihoods dependent on whether someone does
>the decent thing after hearing an MP3... not. If a band was
>getting no promotion from a label, they could go it alone,
>like Ani DiFranco does, but for a mainstream band, your nasty
>corporate megapower is providing a service. As Richie
>explained, they've got to fund promotion for ten lemons for
>every hit they get, so they don't 'suck the artist dry' for
>kicks. They're covering losses and making a profit.
so what your saying is that you feel the majority of people only enjoy
listening to music at relatively poor quality and only while they sit at
the computer.. sure.. even portable mp3 players, CDs are transportable
and twice the sound quality of your average 128kbps mp3... also there's
no way to make up for album sleeves electronically..
secondly, if an artist makes music that people want to hear.. people
will support it.. i think it's safe to say that the majority of mp3
connoisseurs buy albums of artist they want to support.. i know for me
it's been a means of research.. it's not every day you turn on the radio
and hear royal hunt playing.. if i hadn't heard an mp3 they never would
have seen my money..
and besides that.. the point i was trying to make was that people like
liquid audio are doing a damn good job promoting bands online.. they
stream music at CD quality without having to download it.. just works
best.. you can go to the artists page, sample the music and buy it if
you want it.. don't you think it's a good idea to go to dreamtheater.net
listen to all of awake (or however much dt wants to make available) and
when you pick up your chin from the floor and kick down the cash dream
theater gets 50 - 70 percent of the cash instead of like 6%?... i think
so
artist are getting over half of the profits.. and big artists are going
with the company because the profits are there..
peter frampton, carlos santana, george benson, dave mathews, etc..
anyways... put that in your pipe and smoke it
inferno
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:47:26 -0600
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Grrrrrrrr
Message-ID: <000e01be6069$2e8bd0a0$f289fea9@z979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
>From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
>Subject: Re: If you want proof that polls lie...
>to sum up KWS and johnny lang, and all the other BB King wannabe's I mearly
>quote George Carlin....White people have no business playing the
blues...EVER!
Not to get too PC here, but:
A). What the fuck does George Carlin know about music? He's trying to
make a joke. That's what he's good at. He doesn't believe everything he
says.
B). I don't know... but it's not funny when you say it.
You've admitted to a dislike of the blues, and your above statement
illustrates an ignorance to it as well.... these guys aren't B.B. King rip
offs. Don't talk about things you don't know anything about.
SRV, Clapton, Robin Trower, Bonnie Raitt, KWS (who I hate), Johnny Lang
(who I dislike), Gary Moore (ex metal guy.... great blues playing), Blues
Saraceno, Scott Henderson, enumerous blues rock guitarists (Guys like Page,
Richards, etc), tons of jazz guys (one of the most popular forms of blues is
the jazz blues progression), ... man, I could come up with a really solid
list. The fact is that the Blues comes mostly from the African culture. As
culture does not equal race (culture is learned) it's not about your skin
color. Thus, properly motivated, anyone can learn to play the blues, just
as anyone can learn to play Nintend---err neoclassical or shred. It's all
about assimilation anyways. Even if you're trying to be funny, it's a bad
example to set.
MadsBorg
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 20:16:33 -0600
From: Dale R Newberry <schnapster@juno.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Ozric Tentacles and breasts
Message-ID: <19990224.205243.3414.2.schnapster@juno.com>
Damn, I hate going to used CD stores because I always walk out with
something. I just found Ozric Tentacles' "Arborescence" at a store just
down the street for $5 yesterday (also picked up some Bootsy Collins and
Fishbone :). At first listen, this (being the first time I ever heard
OT) sounded a lot more prog rock tan I was expecting. I was expecting it
to be much more ambient (which it was in spots). So far, Ireally do dig
it, though.
>"If I had breasts, I would never leave the house, ever." -John Perreault
"I would to go get a mirror." -Butthead
Dale R. Newberry
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:12:18 -0500
From: "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: DT Tribute Clarification
Message-ID: <006001be6069$44f6a540$d0586acf@ckssrs.axiomnet.com>
When Arash posted to the jam about an Empty Tremor made Dream Theater
tribute album, I think you all got the wrong idea. They aren't gonna play
DT songs! Nonono! Empty Tremor is going to actually play *original* songs,
but as we all know, sound EXACTLY like 15 year olds trying to play Dream
Theater songs. So its a tribute in that sense.
Scott.
(disclaimer - for all I know, et is really doing a dt tribute, I was just
poking fun at the band so don't take me seriously!)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:15:21 EST
From: AEllis1222@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: re: my take on narrow mindedness serious NDTC
Message-ID: <a2d8ad6b.36d4c049@aol.com>
<<If you go to the Museum of Tolerance here in
SoCal, there are two doors: one labeled "not prejudiced", and labeled
"prejudiced".. >>>
There's a Museum of Tolerance? Geez. . . How horrifficly Politically Correct.
When it comes to open mindedness, all I have to say is most people's minds are
so open, their brain has fallen out. Especially in America.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 19:18:45 -0800
From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: NIN lyrics
Message-ID: <199902250318.TAA20217@gms.gmsnet.com>
[Hayden versus Humm debate over Trent and NIN deleted]
Hey hey, let's not turn this into another Metallica sucks (well, they
do... but hey... ) thread... we don't need another...
But as a side note... Trent Reznor is an overrated retard and NiN sucks
balls... I'd rather listen to Manson..
oh yeah... while I'm pissing on everyone's parade... Korn is the worse
thing since new Metallica...
Ok... end of debate...
bwhahaha
-The Doc
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:05:34 -0500 From: "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: NIN Message-ID: <01af01be6074$18b46160$584320d8@Kez>
>[Hayden versus Humm debate over Trent and NIN deleted] > >Hey hey, let's not turn this into another Metallica sucks (well, they >do... but hey... ) thread... we don't need another... > >But as a side note... Trent Reznor is an overrated retard and NiN sucks >balls... I'd rather listen to Manson.. > >oh yeah... while I'm pissing on everyone's parade... Korn is the worse >thing since new Metallica... > >Ok... end of debate... >bwhahaha > >-The Doc
This is what I love about the 'jam. We can all express our opinions as much as we want, but we ALL know who rules, now don't we?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 22:06:40 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Fear of the Hand of Ptacek smiting my breasts. Message-ID: <010a01be607c$b58a3f20$720d84d0@default>
>GETTING JACK SHIT because people rationalize away the fact that they're >cutting the artist out of the cycle completely? God forbid YOU ever try to
Damn Chris, I thought you were gonna quit flaming people. :D Wholly shit! I can smell the Baked Al"ASS"ka from here. That whole speil makes me think you don't like the idea of me charging $20 a month entrance for my 10GB MP3 server, you poo poo head. :) <j/k> I agree with you. But I'm still not deleting my 10GB MP3 disk. It's my "ultimate home jukebox." :) God Himself can't wedge this from me, although a good power spike probably could... *looks about in fear of Michael Coghlan's fiery wrath, shielding his hard drive from the flames*
>Ummm, try again. You're not even close. "I wanna fuck you like an animal" >bears no resemblence to "found a new girl think we can make it" to anyone >with a brain.
Hehehe. "Brian" <= "scrambled brain." You fight logic with nonsense. Your inflated head bears no resemblance to Rossane's fat, bloated ass, but I do believe a few comparisons can be drawn between the two. It's sad that if you opened your mind for a moment, you'd drown in your own fecies.
>I really enjoy listening to PJ because of Vedder's passion. If you don't >hear it in songs such as Black or Garden, you are really missing out. They
Total agreement here. "Ten" is one of those albums that really shine emotionally. I thinks it's one of my favorite albums of all time as well. I file it in my "music to get depressed by" category. :) It gets listened to alot, too. Depression and anti-social behavior both rule.
>like the Canadian band that did 'Superman's Dead'. Anyone? >Our Lady Peace. (answered)
hehehe. I was lost because I kept thinking of the Crash Test Dummies song. And CTD don't even have loud guitars... let alone I don't even think there was any guitars at all in that song. hehehe. Nevermind. CTD rule, imo. New album next month. Woo!
Anyway, I've gotta quit posting so much (as usual). -- KorgX3 covets your ice cream bar. NP: Platypus: When Pus Comes to Shove
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:04:24 PST From: "Trent Thornton" <stairway2kashmir@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: 311... Pearl Jam, Nirvana... etc.. Message-ID: <19990225050425.24427.qmail@hotmail.com>
>I am happy to see the music getting better again... bands like: > Days of the New
Man, you must be torn up over them breaking up, huh?
*Trent
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:19:52 PST From: "Trent Thornton" <stairway2kashmir@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: my take on narrow mindedness serious NDTC Message-ID: <19990225051953.20176.qmail@hotmail.com>
>> What gives any of you the right to judge anyone elses music? > That's the way it works. Therefore, I >reserve the right to decide what "sucks", what "rules", and what I >really don't care about, FOR MYSELF. And maybe, just maybe, one of you >can change my mind. > >~~Amanda >a new convert to Tori-ism
If you actually listen to what people say, then you'd be surprised what could happen. I've been a Led Zeppelin fan for about four years and it's pretty safe to say that they're my favorite band. So when I read on the Led Zeppelin mailing list that a band called Dream Theater (whom I'd heard of and thought of as a metal band) performed a few Zeppelin nuggets on one of their CDs, I went out and bought the CD just to hear the Zeppelin medley. I loved the entire CD (ACOS) and I then remembered that my brother had Images & Words in his room. So I listened to that and loved it too (to date, those are the only two albums that I own). My point? If you open-mindedly listen to what other people say as best you can and listen to music based on whether or not it's good then you've accomplished a lot.
*Trent a still new convert to DT-ism :o)
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:41:49 PST From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: tributary requirements? Message-ID: <19990225054150.16082.qmail@hotmail.com>
>> Saigon kick? Saigon kick back to the CD store, sounds like an >What??? No, no, no, no no. Extreme copy?
extreme copy? hmmm, maybe that's what makes The Lizard one of my top ten all time favorite albums?
about the dream theater tribute......has dream theater really been around long enough to warrant a tribute? i'd love to see a setlist and artist roster.......
partha
NP: Damn the Machine
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 23:42:48 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Fear of the Hand of Ptacek smiting my breasts. Message-ID: <iss.6503.36d4e2d7.9e477.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding To: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> Original Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 21:24:08 -0800 (PST)
> >Ummm, try again. You're not even close. "I wanna fuck you like an > animal" > >bears no resemblence to "found a new girl think we can make it" to > anyone > >with a brain. > > Hehehe. "Brian" <= "scrambled brain." You fight logic with nonsense. > Your > inflated head bears no resemblance to Rossane's fat, bloated ass, but I > do > believe a few comparisons can be drawn between the two. It's sad that if > you opened your mind for a moment, you'd drown in your own fecies.
Okay. I'm not "fighting logic with nonsense." Number one, I don't see much logic in the original post. He merely makes his opinionated claim about lyrical styles. Not "logic" in my book. Number two, I really didn't, and still don't, think this is an argument worth much effort, because, as usual, some people like the band, some don't, and none will change their mind based on a few pithy words appearing here.
Hence, I was not *attempting* to offer any logic; I was merely stating my feelings, as did the original poster. I don't think "found a new girl think we can make it" is any more "deep," so to speak, than "I wanna fuck you like an animal." However, I believe that, not only in the lone line but in the context of the song as a whole, the former states its case more eloquently than the latter. It's a matter of taste, of aesthetics. As far as whether or not they dwell in the same house, which is what I believe the original poster was contending, I think it's obvious in the implications that each line is developing for us quite a different feeling. The NIN line is one of direct rage, visceral hate, wanting to physically, mentally, emotionally ravage the one who has hurt you. Whereas, the SDV line is one of resignation; the narrator will stick with inanimate magazine models rather than risk any emotional involvements, now that he has faced the losing side of love. There is no threat of malice here.
So, I repeat, I don't think anyone with a brain can say those two lines are in the same ballpark at all, other than at the general level of love lost; but then, probably at least half of all rock songs fit that bill, so it's a rather pointless parallel in its broadness.
I'll ignore the ignorant labels you chose to toss at me (close-minded, for example) as that's a personal issue which doesn't belong on the jam.
-Brian
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4700 **************************
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