YTSEJAM Digest 4549
Today's Topics:
1) A couple things
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
2) Adventures In Dream Theater-ing...Part 2
by "Emerson, Michael J." <memerson@mail.PWCG.com>
3) Instinct. Don't get me started. [long NDTC, yet interesting and highly debatable]
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
4) Re: Heavy Metal Symphony
by Matt Smith <ktulu@arches.uga.edu>
5) Re: instinct/learned behavior [NDTC]
by "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
6) Re: Instinct. Don't get me started. [long NDTC, yet interesting and
by "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
7) Re: A couple things
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
8) Re: Heavy Metal Symphony
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
9) Andre Matos - Angra and DT
by guillermo moloche <gmoloche@midway.uchicago.edu>
10) Re: A couple things
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
11) Re: A couple things
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
12) Angra
by David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
13) Re: A couple things
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
14) Re: Angra
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
15) Holiday Show and a Engagement
by drussell29@juno.com
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:30:17 -0600 (CST)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: A couple things
Message-ID: <199901071730.LAA17514@adam.enteract.com>
1). Thanks to the guy who commented on Shoenberg, Webern and Berg... I've
been studying some of that stuff myself. That's not what that little
debate was about, though. She was talking about 12th notes as in longer
than 16th notes, shorter than 8th notes. No matter how you want to stack
em to make a note of that length, it'll still be an 8th or a 16th note.
There isn't a 12th note that I've ever heard of.
2). Lefty playing righty. We had a long ass discussion on #ytsejam about
this. Anyone having trouble with this, please ignore Ayami's last post.
The motion of writing with either hand is not the same as picking (though
similar) and it's really not going to cure anything... just going to waste
ink and paper. I have taught a few lefties who insist on denying their
genetic makeup, and there IS in my experience a natural disadvantage, in
that you don't have the same type of control of your right hand when
you're a lefty, the same way as I don't have that type of control with my
left. MICHAEL.ANGELO. talked about this very thing (he's the most
ambidextrous goutarist I've ever seen) and explained that in order to play
really fast, he had to devise a special picking method. I'm not sure
that's necessary to do... mpm (I don't know your real name) is up to 160
without that technique. I imagine if you work very hard, you can get past
that picking issue, but it'll probably be more trouble than had you played
lefty. Once you've committed 5 years towards playing right handed though,
there's no way you're going to be willing to flip your strings upside down
and play with the other hand. So there ARE some issues, but it's not
exactly clear to me what has to be done to overcome them. I would hope
that structured practice is enough.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 12:38:16 -0500
From: "Emerson, Michael J." <memerson@mail.PWCG.com>
To: Under A Glass Ytse <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Adventures In Dream Theater-ing...Part 2
Message-ID: <BDBBCD37EA65D1119E9600A0C9982D75AB4E48@mail.pwcg.com>
.and now, the action-packed conclusion...
Irving Plaza - when i got there, there were about 25-30 people in fromt of
me on line...by the time the doors opened, that number had almost TRIPLED
from people hopping in with people they barely knew in order to get a better
spot on line, which, IMHO, fucking SUCKS!! anyway, i guess a lot of people
in front of me went up to the balcony, 'cause i got a good spot right near
the right side of the stage again...Mike brought out his life-size, stand-up
'Austin Powers' cutout, which was very amusing...later in the show, Mike and
John P. got derek to come out and sing 'Ice Cream Man', saying that they had
discussed the issue of Derek singing, and that playing that song was the
only way they were going to get him to sing...this was probably the 2nd best
show out of the 5...
The Chance - i was going to go up early, but after experiencing the cold
weather, i said to myself "no way in hell am i standing on line in this
weather" (especially this was my 5th consecutive night seeing them), so i
decided to wait a few hours...the line was pretty long by the time i got
there, but there's a raised platform about 15-20 ft. back from the stage, so
i got a good spot there...i was yelling 'Ice Cream Man!' at Derek, which he
smiled at, and we eventually got him to sing it again...we also got another
performance of 'Nightmare Cinema', which even the guys realized was really
bad after they did it, so they felt that they had to atone for such a poor
performance, which they did easily by playing 'Peruvian Skies'...this was,
far and away, the best concert of the 5...
as the band was leaving the stage after the main set, i managed to get
Mike's attention (which i had also done at the previous 2 shows), at which
point he looked at me kind of funny and made gestures with his hands to me,
first holding up 2 fingers and then 3, which i realized was his way of
asking me how many of the shows i had been to. i smiled and held up all 5
fingers on one hand, which i think surprised him a bit. he then mimed
something to the effect that i must be tired from all the traveling, which i
nodded sleepily at :o)
after the show, as the bouncers were hustling everyone out the door, i found
that my prayers had been answered when i managed to get my hands on a very
valuable item...a BACKSTAGE PASS!!! i was ecstatic...i was going to get to
hang out with the band!! unfortunately, it didn't quite work out that way.
i ended up hanging out at the side of the stage with Mateos (sp?), who i
believe runs the Dutch fan club and a few other people for a while, then we
all went upstairs to talk to the guys. as we were climbing the stairs, John
M. was leaving, so i really didn't get to talk to him, and when we got up to
where the band was hanging out, Derek and James were also trying to bolt out
the door (James said something about having an early flight somewhere, but i
think everyone mostly just wanted to hurry home and spend some holiday time
with their families...). John P. left a few minutes after we got there, but
he came back a few minutes later and i got hime to sign some stuff for me,
after which he promptly departed. that left only the One True God, the man,
the myth, the legend...Mike P.!
i got to hang out with him and his wife and some of his friends for about
15-20 minutes, just listening to them chat, and occasionally asking him a
few questions, when my now-spinning mind could settle down enough to recall
any. he said that he hoped that i wasn't bored after having seen all 5
shows (yeah...as if that could ever happen...). he also told me a few
things...
LTE - apparently, there is only 1 confirmed date for LTE right now (i don't
remember the venue name, but i believe he said it's in Los Angeles) on
January 30th...he said that they had to work quickly on setting up and
confirming other dates in January, because it will be too late soon, since
he also mentioned that one of the other members (i believe he said Tony
Levin) is starting an 18 month tour with Seal starting in February, so he
won't be available after that...
WARNING: those of you who aren't already members of the fan club, you might
want to get your memberships in soon!)
DT - i asked Mike if the band had any plans to release any more of the
unreleased FII material...he said that they were going to try and work out
something with the fan club to make unreleased material from ALL of their
albums (not just FII) available to fan club members!
i soon bid him farewell and wished him a happy holiday...i was definitely on
cloud nine after that night! i only hope i get the chance to do it again!!!
take care, all!
mikE
____________________________________________________________
"May God stand between you and harm
In all the empty places where you must walk..."
"Into the morning sun /
Down his chosen road, he rides to save the world /
Cross of crimson, robe of white /
Sworn to the quest for the rest of his life..."
Symphony X - "The Accolade"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 11:17:58 -0700
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Instinct. Don't get me started. [long NDTC, yet interesting and highly debatable]
Message-ID: <004301be3a6a$4505b960$0201010a@chuck>
Instinct? What is instinct? From what I have learned, instinct is a primal
response to a situation in which a being reacts to particular stimuli with
little or no conscious effort. The most common situation describing
instinct is the natural reaction to protect oneself in the event of tragedy,
as Jon explained yesterday. What other common instincts do humans possess?
I believe there are many, although every one will be debated by many a
religious mind to the end of time, and both sides have a difficult time
proving their ideals.
A primary instinct? Lust. Ever get a stiffy in class and can't get it
down? Can't stop it from happening? You've just become susceptable to the
basic instinct of procreation. The natural drive to prolong and extend the
species. Although we, as humans, have become civilized and we do have the
capacity to subdue our instincts, we cannot rid ourselves of them. If it
were in any primordial situation, you would have pounced upon the source of
your arrousal and rutted unless a more dominant male were to challenge you
for assaulting his possession.
Another instinct? Our predatorial urge to congregate and hunt. The urge to
congregate is obvious. Take a look at places so densely overpopulated like
New York City, for example. Nature taught species long ago that there is
safety in numbers. Man is the dominant predator in the animal kingdom and
although we know that immense congregation inevitably breeds all sorts of
pestilence, why do we still do it? We can't help it, that's why. The urge
was imbedded in the human psyche aeons ago and will likely remain for aeons
more.
The urge to hunt (from our predatorial ancestors) is still possessed by
everyone, although the instinct can easily be subdued, and, as many fail to
realize, redirected. Examples of the hunting instinct redirected:
compulsive shoppers, card/stamp/whatever collectors, people who drive fast,
people who play sports, etc. The hunt lingers constantly in the back of
every mind. It's what makes people so competitive, constantly trying to
rise to dominance over the other. Only the dominant lead the pack and have
the pleasure of controlling and subduing the "omegas."
What? People aren't predators? Until you show me a person with all molars
and eyes on the sides of their head, you won't convince me otherwise. :)
But, then, there is the Cow God, but deities don't count, moo.
Dammit, you got me started on an evolutionary topic. I better stop or
you'll never hear the end from me. heheh.
Over and under, around and through...
-- DarwinX3------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:48:38 -0500 (EST) From: Matt Smith <ktulu@arches.uga.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Symphony Message-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.990107133653.57734A-100000@archa8.cc.uga.edu>
On Thu, 7 Jan 1999 ytsejam@ax.com wrote:
> Thought some of you might find this interesting. It was a major story > last night on the tv and radio stations here in the SF Bay Area. The > way that the talking heads on TV put it, it sounded like Metallica was > being credited for creating a new genre of music. But then again, who > pays attention to the TV news anyway? (Isn't that how it always works? > The inventor doesn't get credit, only the person that manages to bring > it to the mainstream.) > > Hopefully Metallica will use material from RtL, MoP, and AJFA... It > would work better in this format. They may finally be going in the > "right" direction. ;o)
The 23 songs will consist of material from those 3 records as well as the rest of their career. Also to be included is The Call of Ktulu *UNCONTROLLABLE DROOLING AND ORGASMIC SPASMS* I'm hoping they'll also add at least parts of Orion and To Live is To Die; possibly tie all 3 together for a medley like they did on part of the Black album tour. This drool's getting about neck deep, so I'd better shut up now. /me prepares for the concerts of the millenium...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Album Currently Playing: Anthrax--Volume 8: The Threat is Real! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Matt Smith ktulu@arches.uga.edu
"Symphony X is the musical equivalent of the Hammer of God." -Joe DeAngelo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:11:03 -0600 From: "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net, ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: instinct/learned behavior [NDTC] Message-ID: <369506c64d3a002@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <199901071534.KAA28905@bajor.ici.net> from ytsejam@ax.com:
> Yes, but that's not necessarily instinct. Babies don't cry > *instinctively* because they need something. Crying itself is an > instinctive behavior, but crying because they NEED something is a > learned behavior. Babies (newborns) cry, simply because it's the > only method they have of communicating. If something is wrong, > they haven't learned to differentiate between "I'm hungry" and "The > light's too bright" and "I slept on my arm funny" and so on. > Eventually they learn to differentiate these things (and, as every > parent learns, they develop a different cry for each), and they also > learn that when they cry, mommy and daddy fix what's wrong.
Well, obviously. I was just being more succint. ;)
-Brian
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 13:19:10 -0600 From: "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net, ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Instinct. Don't get me started. [long NDTC, yet interesting and Message-ID: <369508ae53a5006@mhub1.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <004301be3a6a$4505b960$0201010a@chuck> from ytsejam@ax.com:
> A primary instinct? Lust. Ever get a stiffy in class and can't get it > down? Can't stop it from happening? You've just become susceptable to the > basic instinct of procreation.
Or you've become victim the body's daily rise in blood pressure after you awaken. :)
> Another instinct? Our predatorial urge to congregate and hunt. The urge to > congregate is obvious. Take a look at places so densely overpopulated like > New York City, for example. Nature taught species long ago that there is > safety in numbers. Man is the dominant predator in the animal kingdom and > although we know that immense congregation inevitably breeds all sorts of > pestilence, why do we still do it? We can't help it, that's why. The urge > was imbedded in the human psyche aeons ago and will likely remain for aeons > more.
I would say that cities are more a response to economic realities than any instinct to gather. Humans do have an instinct to gather (thus loneliness), but they also have an instinct for territory which would preclude having a New York or Tokyo situation if everything was up to instinct.
-Brian
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:13:49 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: A couple things Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9901071805290.13669-100000@jaca>
On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Christopher Ptacek wrote:
> 1). Thanks to the guy who commented on Shoenberg, Webern and Berg...
If you're going to check Webern, please take some time and check out any CD with his "5 Orchesterstrucke Op. 10". It's a torture for the uninitiated. :-)
Also some interesting modern composers (not necessarily related to serialism) are: Olivier Messiaen, Pierre Boulez (which is one of the most famous people in "classical" music world today), Luciano Berio, John Cage and Henryk Gorecki.
> 2). Lefty playing righty. We had a long ass discussion on #ytsejam about > this. Anyone having trouble with this, please ignore Ayami's last post.
Recommendation for those wanting to ignore someone's posts (and this includes mine :-) ): subscribe to ytsejam in ackmode and put someone's address in your kill list. This works with any environment that you're using. If you're using any kind of Unix, just add a few lines to your .procmailrc file and you're done.
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:18:10 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Heavy Metal Symphony Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9901071815570.13922-100000@jaca>
On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, Matt Smith wrote:
> The 23 songs will consist of material from those 3 records as well as the > rest of their career. Also to be included is The Call of Ktulu > *UNCONTROLLABLE DROOLING AND ORGASMIC SPASMS* I'm hoping they'll also add > at least parts of Orion and To Live is To Die; possibly tie all 3 together > for a medley like they did on part of the Black album tour.
Medley? Well, that's very probable, but I'd rather see them all in their entirety, probably one leading into another like DT's "Scarred" leads to "A Change of Seasons"...
[]s, Roger...
N.P.: Deicide's "When Satan Lives" -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 14:45:25 -0600 (CST) From: guillermo moloche <gmoloche@midway.uchicago.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Andre Matos - Angra and DT Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.990107141700.23771B-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Somebody wrote that Andre is an average prog singer or something like that. He is not a prog singer. He is a METAL singer, and if you think he lacks quality, I guess you have never listened in your life to singers like Halford or Dio. And if you don't believe me about Halford, ask Pavarotti. I recognize that his range may hurt your ears a bit, but that's secondary to the artistic value of what he's singing. If you really can't stand it, adjust your stereo controls or buy a better one. Maybe it's not his voice but the distortion that hurts. If you like metal you should be able to tell the difference between powerful sounds and annoying noise. And yes, it's true that his voice is so powerful that overwhelms the other instruments, even when playing live!.
Has anybody complained about James LaBrie singing in "Voices"? That's similar to what Andre does all the time. And that's James's best singing performance ever, IMHO. Speaking of DT and Awake, if you miss Petrucci playing that fast, heavy guitar in Awake, don't miss Angra's Fireworks specially Paradise and Speed, it really sounds like Petrucci in the solos.
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:58:31 -0500 (EST) From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: A couple things Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990107155516.3284A-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
> Also some interesting modern composers (not necessarily related to > serialism) are: Olivier Messiaen, Pierre Boulez (which is one of the most > famous people in "classical" music world today), Luciano Berio, John Cage > and Henryk Gorecki.
John Cage! My band was gonna cover that one song of his, 4'33". Only we were gonna play it 4 times as fast - in 1 minute 8 seconds. Cuz we're all that. :)
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:11:33 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: A couple things Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990107170956.25304A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Thu, 7 Jan 1999, TheCowGod wrote:
> John Cage! My band was gonna cover that one song of his, 4'33". Only we > were gonna play it 4 times as fast - in 1 minute 8 seconds. Cuz we're all > that. > :) >
PLEASE don't expect me to fall for that one... I don't know if the other people on this list are as "culturally advanced" as I. =) (Note the smilie, I don't REALLY think that I'm any better than anybody else here)
Anybody who wants to know the catch to this one, just ask, but for now, anybody who doesn't know it will just be blind to the joke.
------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://oz.plymouth.edu/~a_couter/ ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------- "In the New Year, hold your right hand out always in friendship, but never in want." -- Irish toast -------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:18:35 -0700 From: David Dixon <David@iisweb.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Angra Message-ID: <3093FD59DB69D11193AA00A0C9605649809179@messaging>
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >< In my experience there are two types of Angra listeners: 1) Those who think Andre Matos has a great range, fantastic expressiveness, and pure power in those vocal cords; OR 2) Those who think Matos sounds like a dolphin on helium with its balls being squeezed in a vice and want nothing to do with the band. I happen to be in the first camp, but both camps have plenty of members. Your mileage may vary. ><
I think he's an average prog singer with many annoying tendancies in a band that would be better without him, but still is a decent band and no more.
Jim
NP - Spock's Beard: The Light >>>>>>>>>>>>
Good fucking call - I really don't like his voice, and I don't care for the band much, either. I've only heard a couple songs, and they certainly lacked the emotion that bands like DT and SX have....
My 2 cents
David Dixon, MCP Internet Developer Integrated Information Systems, Inc. david@iisweb.com
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 17:30:21 -0500 (EST) From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: A couple things Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990107172610.3284B-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
> > John Cage! My band was gonna cover that one song of his, 4'33". Only we > > were gonna play it 4 times as fast - in 1 minute 8 seconds. Cuz we're all > > that. > > :)
actually the reason we were gonna do it in a minute is cuz i don't think anyone would sit through us standing on stage for 4 minutes :) you're right, most people probly have no idea what i'm talking about... John Cage's piece, 4'33", involves the performers coming on stage and standing there with their instruments for exactly 4 minutes and 33 seconds, then leaving. the idea is that the music is the coughs, snickers, etc of the audience while they wonder what the performers are doing. john cage is the father of aleatoric or "chance" music - where the composer specifies a few parts but not the order or the notes but not the rhythm , etc. i.e., leaving parts of the performance up to the performance. now you know. and knowing is half the battle. moo.
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 15:51:22 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Angra Message-ID: <001801be3a90$57a84620$0201010a@chuck>
>Good fucking call - I really don't like his voice, and I don't care for the >band much, either. I've only heard a couple songs, and they certainly
I agree and I don't. Now, I think the guy is an excellent singer, but good hell, he sings too damn high! It's most likely just the tember of his voice that makes him sound higher pitched than he actually is (I mean, even I can sing some of that shit), but after a short time it's like nails on chalkboard. IMO, he ought to just sing a little lower or go to strictly backups.
On the other hand, I think he's one badass songwriter. One thing I almost always do is check to see who does arrangements, writing, etc. on everything and Matos puts a TON into Angra's musical center. Muchos kudos to him. I love what he puts into them. A dolphin on helium? heheheh. Good analogy. I don't hate the guy, I just wish he'd go on steroids or something. To me he's a damn great singer who got a bad voice. :\
Up, above, to down below, the preposition in over with... -- KorgX3 NP: Alkaemy: The Merlin Mystery
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 18:24:13 -0500 From: drussell29@juno.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Holiday Show and a Engagement Message-ID: <19990107.182413.-292761.0.drussell29@juno.com>
Hey guys,
I was wondering if any of you could help me out. During the DT show at the Electric Factory in Philly on Dec 26, I asked my long time girlfriend to marry me and I did the whole ring thing! She has been to a DT show before and really didn't like the band but during the show she really enjoyed it and said it will be a night she never forgets. SO I was wondering if any of you have the show on tape cause it would mean so much if I could get my hands on it and give it to her. I will be willing to pay what ever you need for it because of the sentimental value....thanks and I look forward to hearing from you.
Dan ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4549 **************************
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