YTSEJAM Digest 4562
Today's Topics:
1) Drums....
by Dave Ware <dware@walker.com>
2) Active bass - total crap?
by "Christian A. Schulze" <schulze2@mindspring.com>
3) Re: octobans
by ETebo323@aol.com
4) Fads
by "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
5) Re: drums etc....
by Paul Fanguy <drumsrus@bellsouth.net>
6) Re: Bass players w/ picks
by Brad Plumb <palpatine@earthlink.net>
7) Re: RealAudio decompressing
by rbrito@ime.usp.br (Rogerio Brito)
8) MP3s
by Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br>
9) Another LTE date added!! Final Itinerary
by Portnoy420@aol.com
10) Re: Grammys
by subtlerage <subtlerage@subtlerage.com>
11) Here we go again.
by "Christian A. Schulze" <schulze2@mindspring.com>
12) "YEAH YEAH DIE DIE".. hehehe...this brings back memories...
by Devs0432@aol.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 08:30:59 -0600
From: Dave Ware <dware@walker.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Drums....
Message-ID: <82CD0BD64E68D211BDA00060975B3ACF03313D@BHAM-XCHG1.immpower.com>
Hey guys,
]From the MOO wonder:
>i wonder the same thing - octobans cant have their pitch changed during
>playing, as umm, that big ass drum they use in symphonic bands that has
a
>pedal below it to change the pitch. i forget what its called :)
anyways, i
I believe that rototoms (sp?) can, I think you can rotate the outside
bit (technical eh?!) as you play and that changes the pitch. The big
ass drum - you're thinking of Timpany (or was that a teeny-bopping
singer in the eighties?).
Dave (a UK jammer - now in Alabama).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:37:29 -0500
From: "Christian A. Schulze" <schulze2@mindspring.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Active bass - total crap?
Message-ID: <369D0409.B089BE7@mindspring.com>
Peter Tatischev was saying...
<< Ibanez has got active pickups system, and I always thought that it
gives more opportunities for wider sound variations - and the Ibanez
proved this to me, but recently I hapenned to be playing at a studio
where the sound engineer complained alot about active basses, and said
that this was total crap, not worth buying at all... So, I just thought
I'd ask expert's opinions, c'mon guys, what d'ya think about this? >>
Well, I don't consider myself an expert and bass isn't my main
instrument, but my experience with recording and playing in bands tells
me that active x passive bass pickups is really a matter of taste. Some
people will swear by one type and see the other as his most horrific
nightmare come reality.
Active pickups will give you a sound that is a bit more "processed" as
opposed to a more natural, wood-resonating sound given by passive
pickups. On the other hand, active pickups are louder, much more quiet
(which means they handle things like distortion and effects much better)
and have more tonal shaping capabilities.
Players like John Patitucci, Victor Wooten, Gary Willis and of course
John Myung play active basses, so don't believe this "total crap, not
worth buying at all" shit that guy gave you... just play both and decide
which one you like best. Note that some amps are engineered having one
type of pickups in mind so they might sound better with a certain type
of bass, but most quality amps will have an active and a passive pickup
input.
Christian.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:45:48 EST
From: ETebo323@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: octobans
Message-ID: <e0353627.369d05fc@aol.com>
In a message dated 1/13/99 3:01:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ytsejam@ax.com
writes:
<< Are octobans what mike hits to kick off 6:00?
>yes.
> Nope. Mike kicks of 6:00 with some high toms. You can tell this because
>Octobans have a very distictive tone, Octobans have a lot mre attack. Just
>watch "6:00" on 5YIALT Mike clearly is using his smaller toms. >>
>
>..i was judging by the MP instructional video, where he DOES use
>octobans. i didn't refer to the original CD. Moo.
>
>..could've swore Mapex specially made Mike a set of octobans back then...
Ok, I'm not a drummer, but my best friend is and he's a huge gear head, and we
have had a few discussions on this. Mike Portnoy does use octobans at the
beginning of 6 o'clock. The first 4 pitches are octobans. On the 5yialt you
don't even see this part so i don't know how you could say that it's small
toms. When it does fade in he's on his highest tom. So if what you're saying
is correct then he would have to have played 5 tones on the first tom.
Impossible. On the instructional video he even uses the octobans. I also
know that he had octobans made especially for him by Mapex. I have read that
somewhere, possibly the DT fanzine. I saw him in concert where they played 6
o'clock and he used octobans. I'm sure Portnoy would even tell us himself
that he uses octobans.
Eric Thibaut
P.S. LTE come to Detroit!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 14:49:59 -0600
From: "Christopher Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Fads
Message-ID: <000501be3f36$4e6b6ec0$27809c83@7979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
Electronic music is probably the genre that has undergone the most
significant and constant change PERIOD. Every year several products come
out, each of which could singlehandedly revolutionize the industry. There
isn't TIME for a fad. Even so, I don't buy into the idea that something
having an upsurge in popularity makes it lame. DT would be majorly lame
then. If fact, the argument can be made that Images and Words style music
was a fad. A lot of you don't like that, but it falls to the same
criteria... we happen to still like DT. I believe that's because MANY on
this list (probably the majority) have some musical background, and as such,
are prone to a longer attention span for how one band does, rather than a
deep appetite for spoon fed goodness, as MTV has taught many to be. I
remember when people were saying that they hoped DT didn't sell TOO many
albums, because then it would get too popular and blah blah blah. I can't
figure out what the problem is with selling a lot of albums, as a result of
an honest effort and a solid talent.
I'm disheartened when people try to discredit genres of music. One can
really only do that if one is ignorant. If you can't appreciate some styles
of music, that's a PROBLEM for you. That's not good. I have trouble with
some music... but not with any whole genres of music. While you'll never
hear me espouse the glory of Boyz II Men, I absolutely can not deny that
there are amazing artists in R&B. There was a time not too long ago when I
wouldn't have allowed myself to believe that. When I was a little kid into
metal (like 11 years old) I was convinced that "chick singers" all sucked.
It's a growing up process, and a musical process to allow yourself to hear a
melody or a groove or a timbre and become engrossed in it; to abandon your
preconceptions about what musical talent is (having something to do with the
ability to play in odd times or play fast or something like that? That's no
more significant than being a good Nintendo player!) and just listen and
hear. I never would have listened to jazz if I couldn't get past my "Balls
and chunk are the ONLY THING" phase in life... and without hearing and
trying to understand jazz, I don't think I'd have gotten on the track to
where I want to be.
Jazz was a fad. Rock and Roll was a fad. Rap was a fad. Metal was a
fad. People get bored by these things and move on, but that doesn't mean
that they'll die. Ska and Punk will be around as long as we all are. I
hope that doesn't bother anyone. It's there for the same reason that Prog
is there for you all... because it's hit a chord and someone digs it. Hell,
within the next 50 years, I bet electronic music will be just about
everything in the music world (it's at that pace...)
Just a little rant, not in response to anyone in particular.
- Chris
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:28:17 -0600
From: Paul Fanguy <drumsrus@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: drums etc....
Message-ID: <369D0FF1.FBC7E2A1@bellsouth.net>
>
> "
> Nope. Mike kicks of 6:00 with some high toms. You can tell this because
> Octobans have a very distictive tone, Octobans have a lot mre attack. Just
> watch "6:00" on 5YIALT Mike clearly is using his smaller toms. Mike does
> use his octobans on the begining of "Just Let Me Breathe" Also for the
> Awake album Mike endorsed Mapex drums. Octobans are made by Tama."
>
> >
nope....on the cd, Mike does use Octobans. By changing the position of the mics, you
can can drastically change the sound of anything. On Mike's old Mapex set (the one
used on Awake) his octobands weren't as long as they are now. and the longer tube
gives it more overtones. There is no doubt, that on Awake, Mike uses octobans to kick
off 6:00, just like on his instructional video. Also, Tama does not hold the patent
for octobans. They do make them, but they are certainly not the only company to do
so. The octobans used by Mr. Portnoy, and Tim Alexander are Psuedo-octobans..they are
longer than normal ones. If you have ever seen a set of real octobans, they go from
about 6 inches to a foot and a half long. Psuedo-octobans are much longer.
Paul
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 15:39:57 -0600
From: Brad Plumb <palpatine@earthlink.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Bass players w/ picks
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990113213957.01239cb8@earthlink.net>
At 06:29 AM 1/13/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Even in the rock/metal genre, the bassists I think about as being most
>cited as primary interests, and having made some sort of stylistic
>impression on the bass community, are guys like John Entwistle, John Paul
>Jones, Geezer Butler, Steve Harris, Geddy Lee, Cliff Burton... to the best
>of my knowledge, all finger players.
Joey Demaio from Manowar, who is actually quite a good bass player in his
own right (check out sting of the Bumblee on Kings of Metal) plays with a
pick; and I can only assume that he has had some influence, because Manowar
have been one of the most popular bands in Europe for years.
BrAd PlUmB
Co-President of NARF (North Houston Anime Resistance Force) If you live in
Houston and you like anime check us out!
NARF Homepage: http://students.ou.edu/T/Joshua.R.Tompkins-1/narf/
"Thank God I'm an aetheist" -Luis Bunel
"What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope
"Perhaps god gave the answers to those with nothing to say"- Savatage:
Somewhere in time
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:51:46 -0200 (EDT)
From: rbrito@ime.usp.br (Rogerio Brito)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: RealAudio decompressing
Message-ID: <ImNotUsingPineThisTime@Rogerio.AEIOU>
Now, another post from the guy that used to be the most frequent
poster from this list, but who decided that he needs to read a
lot more if he wants to be somebody someday.
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, CyberDuke wrote:
[Decompression of Real Audio files]
> Haven't tried it yet, but is this possible? I'm not expert in the area
> but here's what I think.
Yes, it is possible.
> Compressing means losing some information right? So, maybe it's possible
No. Data compression means making the amount of data taking less
space.
Background: there are actually two types of data compression.
Lossy methods and lossless methods.
Lossless methods are those which compress the data in such a way
that, upon decompression, the resulting data is exactly the same
as the original data. Lossless methods are those employed when
you need to compress text files and binary programs, among other
kinds of files. These are the methods implemented by the
popular compressors like Winzip, PKZip, RAR, ARJ, gzip, bzip2
etc.
Lossy methods are, on the other hand, methods that discard part
of the original information in order to perform the compression
(often substituting the discarded part with other parts more
convenient for the compression process). So, when you
decompress the data that was compressed with a lossy method, the
result is different from the original data.
Lossy methods clearly aren't suitable for compressing computer
programs or databases (imagine if any big on-line store started
using lossy methods to compress their customer order forms).
Lossy methods are mostly (but not always) used for types of
files that are interpreted by human senses, like hearing and
vision. These methods are the underlying concept behind sound
(MP3, RA) and image compression (JPEG files).
Usually, the discarded information is not easily perceptible,
or, at least, it's not meant to be easily perceptible (it
obviously depends on the amount of discarded/adjusted
information).
Examples of which kind of data can be discarded safely: imagine
a picture of a paisage, with a blue, sunny sky. There are many
nuances of blue in the picture. But the human eye can't detect
all them, because the resolution power of the organs are
limited. So, such a method can, while compressing the data,
look up the neighborhood of a points and, if the colors of the
points differ by less than a given threshold, the two points are
considered having the same color.
This also means that MP3 files aren't, when decoded, the same as
what they were before they were uncompressed.
> Now, if compressing means keeping the original info (WAV) but just
> "squeezed" in a way, maybe it's possible pulling it out again! But then
> why the compressed file (RM) is much smaller if it contains the original
> data anyway (one way or another)?
Two things here:
First, the method of compression used with Real Audio files
(like said above) is lossy.
Second, it *is* possible for a file compressed with a lossless
method to be smaller than the original file, because the
representation of data often contains redundancy. Texts in
natural languages or databases contain or almost anything that
you can imagine contain a certain degree of redundancy.
One of the most basic (and inefficient) lossless compression
methods is Run-Length Encoding, where you substitute consecutive
occurences of a given character by pairs consisting of counters
and characters, where the counter represents how many times the
character occurred in a row in the file. For example, given the
file:
aaaaeeeiiiiioo
The RLE method would compress the file as:
4a3e5i2o, which is shorter than the original file.
This is just to illustrate how a given message can be stored
more effienciently when its representation is changed. The
decodification algorithm is pretty obvious and the decompressed
file is exactly the same as the original file. The more
predictable structure the data has, the more compressible it is
when given a new, more efficient representation.
Of course this RLE method is very naive and the better methods
are more clever than it.
In fact, one can measure how much compressible a file is:
there's a quantity called entropy of a message which measures
the unpredictability (or disorder) of the representation of the
message. It's a concept based on the homonymous concept from
thermo-dynamics and the higher the entropy of a file, the less
compressible it is.
> Any idea of an expert?
I'm not an expert, but I have studied the subject a little.
A very good source of information about the subject is the FAQ
for the newsgroup comp.compression, comp.compression.research.
Hope this helps, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 20:36:48 -0200 (EDT) From: Rogerio Brito <rbrito@ime.usp.br> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: MP3s Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.02.9901132022060.8119-100000@jaca>
On Wed, 13 Jan 1999, TheCowGod wrote:
> setting winamp to "diskwriter" output instead of waveout produces good wav > files, as far as i can tell... is there some reason not to use it?
It's not my preferred decompressor. But now I'm talking about subjective things.
> i might be missing something as i never realized 128 kbps mp3s lost > quality till someone pointed it out and i went back and listened > closely (thanks a lot :) but yeah, are there better programs than
Yes. But actually there are two modes of compressiong with 128kbps: the fast mode and the high quality mode (*much* slower, but IMO, worth the trouble).
The cymbals are the most obvious signal of a badly compressed MP3.
And FYI, the more ambient noise a recording has, the harder it is for an MP3 encoder do a good job with it. I have a recording of a JP clinic that, even when compressed with HQ, 112kbps stereo has bad quality.
Unfortunately, I don't know very much about lossy compression and MP3 encoding. :-(
> winamp for getting mp3s back to wav?
IMO, l3dec. And it runs under Debian GNU/Linux, you know. :-) There are other compressors with better sound quality (BladeEnc, for instance). But they are slower (and BladeEnc is evil because the author won't release the source code which is enough).
[]s, Roger...
-- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Rogerio Brito - rbrito@ime.usp.br - http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito Undergraduate Computer Science Student - "Windows? Linux and X!" Bootleg/trade page: http://www.ime.usp.br/~rbrito/bootleg.html =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:53:19 EST From: Portnoy420@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Another LTE date added!! Final Itinerary Message-ID: <1b0e9bec.369d23df@aol.com>
One last LTE date has been added on the east coast: Friday January 22nd - Theater of Living Arts in Philadelphia, Pa. 215-922-1011
This now makes the "final" itinerary of the ONLY live appearances (maybe ever!?!?!) of LIQUID TENSION EXPERIMENT featuring Mike Portnoy, John Petrucci, Jordan Rudess and Tony Levin:
Thursday January 21st - The Bowery Ballroom, New York City 212-533-2111
Friday January 22nd - TLA, Philadelphia, PA 215-922-1011
Saturday January 30th - Sabian's Drums along the Biltmore (exclusive to NAMM attendees) Los Angeles, CA
Monday February 1st - The Roxy, Los Angeles CA 310-278-9457
Don't miss what will surely be a once in a lifetime experience!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 17:02:13 -0600 (CST) From: subtlerage <subtlerage@subtlerage.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Grammys Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.990113165616.32487B-100000@verdi.siteprotect.com>
:Now the Grammys, THEY do avoid talent. What is the world coming to :when Will Smith wins a Grammy for best male R&B
those highly publicized music awards shows are all popularity contests. talent is secondary. i'm not implying that all grammy winners lack talent. i'm not saying that they have an abundance of talent either. i'm just saying that IMO when they say "best" they mean "most popular".
-Andrew _____________________________________________________ subtlerage@subtlerage.com - http://www.subtlerage.com keyboard oriented progressive new age ambient rock
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:04:12 -0500 From: "Christian A. Schulze" <schulze2@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Here we go again. Message-ID: <369D266C.B85218DB@mindspring.com>
"The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work unless it's open" - Frank Zappa.
Dave Klint sez... << I know I should probably let this thread die, but I have this Bill & Ted type dream of universally enjoyed good music. I didn't think I was the only one who wanted my music to be enjoyed by everyone. >>
I have a dream that each and every individual has the right to decide what good music is for themselves.
<< >Ok, first, techno and industrial are alive and doing much better than=20 >prog.=20
In europe, perhaps. >>
No. I would consider Madonna's latest to have a full techno flavor, and it went pretty well. Acqua is doing pretty well too. There is no prog in the Billboard 100 Top of 1998. Bands like Nine Inch Nails and Marilyn Manson would be considered industrial, and so would Rob Zombie. Garbage, Delerium and Orbital are doing pretty good as well, they're all variations of dance music. There's so many others... I'd do a big ass post on dance music and the various variations, but I don't think it would be interesting for most people here in this list.
<< >I don't agree with the "perform live" thing either. Did Beethoven >ever play his own music?=20
The point was missed. Beethoven may not have played all 200 instruments, but he didn't have a tape playing in the background of samples from 70's disco songs and a tympani (sp) drum machine keeping the beat. >>
Maybe because he didn't have access to that technology at the time ;) Bands like Rush and Queensr=FFche have long used samples and pre-recorded parts on their shows. Some people say Symphony-X vocal harmonies are also pre-recorded for their live performances. Does that make their music any less appealing to me? Not at all. How about Dream Theater using arrangements in FII that are clearly variations of themes already written by the likes of Pink Floyd, Metallica, Rush, Sting and Elton John to name a few? Isn't that just as "bad" as sampling those artists? Or just as good. Everybody has their own right to decide.
<< The reason I made the statement of anything that cannot be performed live will ultimatly fail is to expain the reason things like disco and techno and other=20 music like that remain confined to 'fad' status. >>
My point is that these things are not fads at all. Disco has been going strong for almost as long as prog rock, and it hasn't died yet. Hell, every time I go out to our bars area they are playing KC and the Sunshine Band or Village People at the clubs and bars as I walk by. Techno is also not a fad. Not just that, but lots of metal bands like techno so much that they even put out versions of their own songs and CDs (Spawn, FF-Remanufacture anyone?). So how can that be a fad.
<< When all you have is a light show and a lead singer chanting over a recording of a song, people will not be amused for very long. >>
Last year I went to this free concert here in Tampa to see Paula Cole cuz I think she rocks. I got there before she came in and NSynch was playing, just singing to pre-recorded instruments. Nothing live except vocals. The place was totally crowded and the public was really into it. Paula Cole started playing and I think she did a good show, but by the first couple songs more than half the people left (it was an outdoors concert and there were other places to go to). Of course since I personally don't like N'Synch and I like Paula Cole I was very pissed. That shows though that you that even though lead singers chanting over recordings have been going on for decades, lots of people are still amused.
"I disagree with your viewpoints but I'll defend to the death your right to express them" - Voltaire.
A common line of thought here in this list is that because we like a certain type of music it makes us better than other people. Wake up. There's very smart people that like Nirvana, Savage Garden, Madonna, . Music is just something that is made for enjoyment and fun. Some people get it to the point of religion (these are not direct quotes of course): a) "we must convert others to DT!"=20 b) "I like such and such bands and everything else is just crap!"=20 c) "I need to find a girl that is into DT" (sounds to me like "I need to find a girl that goes to my church") d) "we must enlighten those who only listen to pop" e) "techno, grunge, industrial and dance will go away, but metal is eternal"=20
"Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness" - Chinese proverb.
In short, my point is: one might not agree with other people's musical tastes, but one should never say they're inferior or stupid or just not enlightened because they disagree in opinion. Unless one is in 2nd grade of course, then I guess one is still allowed.
^Christian likes some techno and industrial in case you're guessing.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 18:19:55 EST From: Devs0432@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: "YEAH YEAH DIE DIE".. hehehe...this brings back memories... Message-ID: <e0357a40.369d2a1b@aol.com>
Yo.
>But my own personal recommendation would be that you mosey along to your >friendly CD dealer, request that he inserts the album "Yeah! Yeah! Die! Die! A >Black Metal Symphony In Deep C" by the Finnish band Waltari into the CD >player, turn up the volume and enjoy a completely new listening experience. Very >weird but excellent.
If you are a fan of curious music, and/or are extremely curious yourself, definitely check this out. It is some riot. Waltari teamed up with the Swedish (I believe) national Symphony and they did one performance... the orchestra really loved it, but they couldn't do more 'cause they ran out of funds. It's got your orchestral sounds, opera singer, cookie-monster singer (from Waltari), crazy double-bass, wild guitar - in no order whatsoever. It swings from serious death/black metal (I can't keep the terms straight, sorry :) with the opera voice on top, to techno style, or blues, and my favorite little segment is the piece where it goes from thrashing drums and flailing guitar with a soprano aria over the top of it to carnival music - for five seconds, before going back to serious guitar and drum bashing. That CD brought a big smile to my face. But it is damn WEIRD.
Alex
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4562 **************************
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