YTSEJAM Digest 4880
Today's Topics:
1) PI
by Alan Estrada <alan_estrada@bigfoot.com>
2) Re: Commercia/ MTV issue
by DanChernow@aol.com
3) OUTLANDER'S CHORD QUESTION
by JKorby1973@aol.com
4) I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS MTV THING
by YtseJamJMB@aol.com
5) Re: Latest Vinnie Moore, other stuff.
by Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
6) RE: The saving grace of L.A. radio?????
by "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com>
7) mainstream music & marketing
by "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com>
8) Song for Eric...history as I recall
by "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
9) Thanx Dan!!
by "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
10) Re: MTV's bombardment of the masses
by "Josh Calkin" <j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu>
11) Tattoo
by "Josh Calkin" <j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu>
12) The Initial Warning ....
by Ryan P Skadberg <skadz@mindstorm.com>
13) Adrian Belew tix for sale / repeated listenings
by The Central Scrutinizer <hender@wam.umd.edu>
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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 18:56:57 -0500
From: Alan Estrada <alan_estrada@bigfoot.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: PI
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990601185657.007c3540@umav04.udem.edu.mx>
again with the summer movies and the lack of DT content...I just have one
question...
has anyone have seen the movie PI? I just got my copy and I would like some
comments on the movie, what did you think about the movie, that is...
I liked it but it's a weird, bizarre movie....the music is cool...on the
website they had a note thay may be interested for those of you who liked
the clockwork orange soundtrack:
"In the twenty-five years since Walter (now Wendy) Carlos Williams created
the first all-electronic score for A Clockwork Orange, the world of
electronic music has expanded in step with technology. From its avant garde
origins (Kraftwerk, Africa Bambataa) Electronica has evolved into a global
clique of sub-genres (Acid House, Ambient, Big Beat, Breakbeat, Dub,
Electro, Jungle, Hardcore, House, Techno, etc.) , and taken its place in
the canon of popular music. "
oh I almost forgot, I have another question...did anyone liked matrix?
I liked that one too and I visited the site, there's a link that asks you
for a password....I know there are more than 1 passwords, has anyone has more?
please let me know, thanks
---Alan Estrada Adler, ICQ #9267174 Monterrey, Mexico --------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:03:10 EDT From: DanChernow@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Commercia/ MTV issue Message-ID: <48ba8713.2485cebe@aol.com>
Kurt Hampton <eernewe1@gnofn.org> writes:
<< Don't listen to La Vida Loca 9 times in one day for 5 days strait. Enjoy our little secret known as DT. >>
Funny how everyone's fave little latin-pop ditty "Livin' La Vida Loca" is the child of YNM co-writer Desmond Child.... maybe with Ricky Martin DT would finally get the airplay and the opening slot on the Britney Spears' tour that we all want them to have oh soooo desperately....*there's* a thought....<vomit>
Dan Chernow Guitarist/Instructor Mesa, AZ Dammit...I'm a lurker...
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:41:20 EDT From: JKorby1973@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: OUTLANDER'S CHORD QUESTION Message-ID: <c341b4dd.2485d7b0@aol.com>
>>For ex. <7th fret D/6th fret G/open B and E...what is that?
Arranging the notes in thirds you get: E G B D- it's an Emin7/D chord. If you familiarize yourself with the spellings of chords, things like that will jump out at you almost immediately. A little memorization goes a *long* way with getting your musical head together.>> Hey- The question you posed about this chord I think was misunderstood by the person who answered it originally(I think Dan was his name). The notes I believe you're talking about are(from lowest to highest): A, C#, B, E E G B D are simply the strings this particular chord is being played on. You're chord is basically an Aadd9 chord. A C# and E make an A MAJOR triad, and the B is the added 9th note, thus creating an Aadd9 chord. Dan does give good advice though in his answer that you should be able to use, I just didn't want you to be further confused by his analyzation of a chord that was different than the one you were talking about. Have fun! -JK
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 20:56:46 EDT From: YtseJamJMB@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: I HAVE TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THIS MTV THING Message-ID: <7484c010.2485db4e@aol.com>
I must say that MTV does play a large role in who makes it and who doesn't in the music world because they put them out, but when MTV puts it out people don't have to listen. The reason the Backstreet Boys are so popular is because girls think they are so cute and guys like them because they would love to be them and have all these girls drooling over them. Backstreet boys can put out anything right now and the girls will buy it. And like someone stated earlier, people get tired of things very quickly. So Backstreet boys will only be in the spotlight for so long and then it will die down, as well as alternative and hip hop. From the 60's to 70's to 80's and to the 90's music has constantly changed and with the year 2000 who knows what new music will surface. Maybe Prog will get its chance as well, but for how long? And everyone is born with a free mind, but it is free to what they prefer. When I talk to people who listen to punk and I ask them to hear prog they turn away. And I would do the same to them because it just doesn't appeal to me. Of course some people like all kinds of music, but others are born liking only a certain genre of music. Most of the time it has nothing to do with MTV brain washing but just a persons personal choice.
Later Jammers, Justin
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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 21:05:12 -0400 From: Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com> To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Latest Vinnie Moore, other stuff. Message-ID: <4.1.19990601205956.00984680@pop.usefulware.com>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids....
Brian L. inquired: >Just wondering if anyone else has VM's latest CD "The Maze". He's doing a >clinic at Dave Phillips Music in Allentown this Thurs., and I've always >wanted to check him out, so I figured I'd pick something up before I saw >him. I know most other shred-heads on this list are probably a lot more >familiar with his stuff than I am (I know he was one of the original "shred >pioneers" in the 80's), so how does this compare to his older stuff? From >what I've heard so far (the first half or so of the CD) he sounds like a >cross between Wingnut (ying-wee!) and Vai, with of course his own sort of >"flavor". But I like, very much. Any suggestions?
I don't own "The Maze" yet but owning most of VM's other CDs I feel qualified to answer this one. :) If you're looking for neoclassical shred stuff with a VERY strong sense of melody and some beautifully written songs, pick up either "Mind's Eye" or "Time Odyssey". Both of 'em feature some really nice keyboard work in addition to Vinnie's great guitar playing; Tony MacAlpine plays on the first and Jordan Rudess on the second.
Also, from what I've heard of "The Maze", it is indeed a return to Vinnie's earlier melodic days. (His latest offerings before "Maze" were more crunchy and less melodic -- if you pick up "Meltdown," a good disc in its own right, you won't believe it's the same guy who recorded "Mind's Eye" and "Time Odyssey," the sound is so different).
Get "Mind's Eye" and "Time Odyssey", they're both great.
ta, Phil
========================================================= Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com Official Glass Hammer website: http://www.glasshammer.com/ "Music expresses that which can not be said and on which it is impossible to be silent." -- Victor Hugo
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:08:51 -0700 From: "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: RE: The saving grace of L.A. radio????? Message-ID: <001301beac94$7aa19660$046400c0@oemcomputer>
> -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@ax.com [mailto:ytsejam@ax.com]On Behalf Of rockercat > Sent: Saturday, May 29, 1999 10:57 AM
> As anyone who lives in or has visited L.A. recently, radio here sux > donkey nads.
This might be classified as the understatement of the decade...
>Ever since KNAC went off the air however many years ago, > tuning into a radio station for more than 10 minutes and being > entertained has been next to impossible.
I don't know that people outside of LA realize what a power KNAC was in its day. One of the few commercial all metal stations in the US, this station was an amazing thing to find on the radio dial when I moved to LA at the end of 1988. For awhile, KNAC shirts were a prized possession among the metal underground. KNAC graffiti was even found on the Berlin Wall. It was truly a sad, sad day for the music world when the sounds of guitars went off the air to be replaced by Mariachi music (which, thank god, there just is not enough of on LA radio).
>However, last week > KLOS started > a "classic rock that really rocks" ad nauseum campaign. Upon listening > for a while at work, I was quite surprised to hear a liberal dose of > AC/DC, Queensryche (NOT Silent Lucidity), Priest, Rainbow, G n R, etc. > Then I hear an ad that good ol' Jim Ladd (if you don't know who he is, > you have never been to L.A. :-) is back on late night 10-2 > and is doing > "free form" radio. For the unintiated (and the youth), this is how FM > used to be...jocks would play anything they wanted, whenever they > wanted.
This is the sort of radio I grew up listening to (yes, I'm one old useless bastard). Rock could be followed by jazz which could be followed by a comedy record back to rock or whatever. The amazing thing was that for the most part, the musical choices usually fit together. Playing a whole album side was not an uncommon occurrence. When's the last time you heard something more than five minutes long on a regular rock station?
The playlists of radio have gotten more and more restrictive as the laws governing the number of stations any one corporation could own have been loosened. Every station in a company chain pretty much plays the same damn songs no matter where it is in the US, and you can be sure that any music that does get played has been market researched to the point of exhaustion so that nothing that gets on the air will offend or challenge anyone. I'm glad to see that some station like KLOS is sticking their neck out and trying something different. Now the next step will be to see them (or someone) playing some bands that no one outside of some obscure mailing lists have heard of...
>Anyway, to get to the point here...at about 1:30 this > morning I > was drunkenly making my way into bed and was about to turn > off the radio > when I hear *gasp* HOLLOW YEARS!! I think I sat there and > stared at the > radio for about 10 minutes in utter shock. So I stumble to > the phone to > call the station to congratulate them on being so fucking > cool, and they > tell me I'm like the 20th caller who just said the same thing. Well > duhhhhh...... Could this be the start of the armageddon?? :-)
Well, not really. Hollow Years is too mellow. Armageddon could be triggered by a commercial station in a major market playing something like Ocean Machine or SYL during drive time...
Dave Thomas - Editor, Pixel Planet Reviews of books, music, comics, movies, games, CG software, programming tools and more! http://www.pixelplanet.com
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:37:30 -0700 From: "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: mainstream music & marketing Message-ID: <001601beac98$7b4cf4c0$046400c0@oemcomputer>
> -----Original Message----- > From: ytsejam@ax.com [mailto:ytsejam@ax.com]On Behalf Of Andrew > Coutermarsh > Sent: Sunday, May 30, 1999 4:10 PM
> This is the kind of statement that really bothers me. You > think that just > because this kind of music "sells" that that makes the artist > a sell-out? > Does it really matter whether they're writing and/or > performing music that > appeals? I haven't seen much of her stuff, but in interviews and the > like, Britney Spears really seems to enjoy what she does and > likes to make > the kind of music that she does. To me, this would say that > she is NOT a > sell-out because she is doing what she loves.
This brings up a sort of interesting point. A few weeks ago, Entertainment Weekly did an article about the two production companies that have brought us acts like Britany Spears and The Backstreet Boys. The interesting thing about this article was how it revealed that these acts are basically manufactured. All their music is written for them, and they have a marketing machine behind them that would make the Coke people sit up and take notes. Everything from the appearance of the artist to licensing deals and personal appearances are all carefully strategized and marketed. These acts are marketed to pre-teens and teens (mostly female) as they're the demographic that will spend the most money on add-on items like posters, pictures and other items.
The other interesting thing about the article (which was really not nearly as condemning as it should have been, but then EW is not exactly a paragon of investigative reporting) is that the people behind these bands already have the next acts in preparation. Without coming right out and saying it, they know that these types of acts are flash in the pans at best, and that they'll need a new act to catch the eye of the kids in a couple of years.
I, for one, don't really care what sort of music that other people listen to, as long as I don't have to pay attention to it. This is why I almost never listen to the radio, and never look at MTV. People are naive, though, if they don't think that marketing doesn't play a much greater factor into what the average person listens to than musical taste. Almost all modern music is heavily market researched before it is exposed to the public, for maximum gain on investment. Radio playlists are tightly controlled and homogenized, so that there's very little difference as to what you'll hear on the radio in any given town.
I once did a psych project in college that involved people's perceptions about music. When talking to kids at a local high school, one made a statement that I've never forgotten, and is more valid when talking about mainstream music today than it has ever been: "I only like songs I know." Think carefully about that statement, and the attitude behind it. Then look carefully at not only what is popular in music, but at the movies and on TV (and to some extent the bookstore, though the desire to read for entertainment seems to be dying in this country). Much of it, to me anyway, says "Don't challenge me, don't make me think about anything, just entertain me." Of course, this has a lot more to do with our educational system (which beats down the inquisitive kids at an early age, and makes sure to expose kids to nothing that could even begin to be thought of as challenging, lest a lawsuit be unleashed upon the school by some overprotective lawyer parent) than your local radio station or MTV.
I never expect prog or metal or industrial or whatever other non-mainstream genre you might like to ever be popular on the radio. It just isn't going to happen. What's different about now as opposed to when I was in school (you know, back in the days when electricity had just been invented) is that at least back then there was usually a radio station around that had some sort of non-mainstream playlist. The first album I ever bought was "Close To The Edge" by Yes. I did this because we had a local rock station with a very loose playlist, who played tracks by bands like Yes and Pink Floyd and other bands that are probably long forgotten. But at least this outlet existed. Now, your lucky if you hear a song on the radio with a guitar solo, or hear something different that the other ten stations in town are playing. I'm hoping that someday, maybe, that some radio programmer out there will be struck in the head by some space rocks and in his/her state of delusion decides to go with some music that hasn't been market researched to death and doesn't sound like everything else already on the station. Either that, or the FCC loosens up the restrictions on low power radio stations, and we can all band together and set up our own stations. That might be interesting...
Dave Thomas - Editor, Pixel Planet Reviews of books, music, comics, movies, games, CG software, programming tools and more! http://www.pixelplanet.com
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:06:40 -0400 From: "Rob Pociluk" <robpociluk@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Song for Eric...history as I recall Message-ID: <199906011903542@robpociluk.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
The story behind Kevin's "Song For Eric" goes back to an old friend who = many old time Jammers remember, Jen Albert. Jen made Kevin a few Tori t= apes with some rarities and B-sides of which "Song For Eric" (yes an aca= pella piece was one). Kevin had been really getting into Tori at the ti= me. Maybe an obsession? In any case, this version I got on a tape (fro= m Jen) along with "Space Dye Vest" and the original mix of "Blanket", so= it was done very early on. Slowly, I was receiving more and more demos = and eventually I asked Jen if we couldn't make some copies for everyone = else. Jen asked Kev and he gave the green light. Thus became "Music Me= ant To Be Heard" BUT if I remember correctly, "Song For Eric" was to be = left off. Anyway, here it is. Considering the original is less than tw= o minutes long, it's quite the "remix".
Rob ---- Begin Original Message ----
]From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com> Sent: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 14:45:28 -0700 (PDT) To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: song for an enhanced eric
>Does anyone know the story behind this one. =A0I've not heard the >ori= ginal >so I don't know the differences. =A0It sounds much like a >Kevmo/Tori =
>collaboration. =A0She must know about it, how did it come >about, what= does >she think of it etc.....
the original, if i'm thinking straight, was a Tori solo vocal job.....s= o just take away all the music from the piece, and you have the original =
version......
Kevmo's version wasn't some mutual collaboration; instead, he just adde= d the backing instrumentation to the vocal track....
partha
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---- End Original Message ----
"...so I've got that going for me...which is nice."---Carl the assistan= t greenskeeper Get FREE dreamtheater.zzn.com email at http://www.dreamtheater.net/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 22:28:38 EDT From: "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Thanx Dan!! Message-ID: <19990602022840.84612.qmail@hotmail.com>
1st off let me say thanx for the response however my example was A-Db-B-E not E-G-B-D...but i do get your point
>>For ex. <7th fret D/6th fret G/open B and E...what is that? Knowing that....-would that mean....arghh..confusion
Arranging the notes in thirds you get: E G B D- it's an Emin7/D chord. Just a quick question on that... is the chord you mention min7/D because D is not part of the scale? and say if it was and it was the 9th note it would be Emin7/add 9 instead?
Viva la Myung!
Amen to that!!
Learn the harmonized scales in all keys (ie: build chords off of every note in the scale and learn them, damn you!).
OK..are you saying take say the pure minor scale and use each note as the root and then build minor chords from there by stacking thirds?
Patterns will start to jump out at you and you'll be loving life.
I am living for that day and will do whatever discipline i must...i just need to know how to start...the reason i say that is because ive seen harmonized scales like you mention and each chord is different. (ex.A-B-C....as notes...A is Am--then B is like Bdim7th-and C is Cm/add9...or something weird like that...thats where my confusion comes in...to my lame thinking if the scale to be harmonized is Aminor then the chords would be Am-Bm-Cm...but it never seems to work out that way. MAN!..im pretty lost huh?
>>Also do any of you have ideas as to how i can figure out what these chords are and what fits and whats illegal.
Nothing is illegal- theory is a tool for understanding what we hear, not a set of rules to follow.
What i meant by illegal is kinda like picking a CMaj chord while a DbMaj chord is being strummed it sounds like anti-music or something ;>
The coolest part of theory- for myself anyway- is being able to hear something and knowing how and why it's happening.
Thats what im shooting for...i know this will not be overnight but i really appreciate your help (believe it or not it did help even though i sound more confused than before) And ive heard that harmonizing all scales/all keys is the way to go its just that when i try it its wrong and thus the reason i went to the jam for assistance
Dan Chernow Guitarist/Instructor Mesa, AZ DAMN!...i worked at Fab 12 in Ocotillo 1 year ago and you were probably 6 miles from my house and i didnt even now it.....I could have afforded lessons back then ;>
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 22:52:14 -0400 From: "Josh Calkin" <j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: MTV's bombardment of the masses Message-ID: <004d01beaca2$f7edf880$20ca88cf@guest3382>
> Saying that people will like something if they just listen to it enough > times is flat-out wrong.
This is true in some cases, and in some cases it is not. I empathize completely with your dislike of country music, and a 5 year barrage of country by my parents has done little (or nothing) to change that.
However, in many cases people will begin to like music just because they have heard it many times, kind of like when you decide brussels sprouts (bad analogy, but hey, beer'll do that to you) aren't as bad as you thought, even though you were SURE you'd hated them until now.
Example: my girlfriend HATED DT for the first year I was listening to them. Now she sings along to most of it and gets jealous when I can make it to a clinic and she can't. Her explanation? "After I hear songs enough times I just start to like them, I dunno why."
NP: Edward Scissorhands score (Elfman)
Regards, Josh Calkin: URL: http://members.tripod.com/~DarkHarmony E-Mail: darkharmony13@hotmail.com j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu ICQ: 22473371 AOL IM: Mortua
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:13:41 -0400 From: "Josh Calkin" <j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu> To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Tattoo Message-ID: <000501beaca5$eb869680$20ca88cf@guest3382>
I'm using my computer to design a DT tattoo for a friend of mine, and I need a quick favor: As per his request, the tattoo will probably be a majesty symbol with "Carpe Diem" written underneath it. What I need is a good font to write Carpe Diem in. I was hoping for a font which replicates that found on DT CD covers. If anyone knows where I can get such a thing, or has any other suggestions, please e-mail me privately.
T'anks.
Josh Calkin: URL: http://members.tripod.com/~DarkHarmony E-Mail: darkharmony13@hotmail.com j_calkin@oz.plymouth.edu ICQ: 22473371 AOL IM: Mortua
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Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 23:25:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Ryan P Skadberg <skadz@mindstorm.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: The Initial Warning .... Message-ID: <14164.42040.518082.713480@optical.mindstorm.com>
Hi All ...
This is just an initial warning, nothing definate has been set yet. In the next few weeks (in my copious amounts of free time), I will be migrating the ytsejam to a new server. Due to this, we will also be changing the address of the jam. I am also going to take this opportunity to clean house :) This means that once I get everything set up, I am going to make everyone re-sub to the list. :) This should get rid of alot of dead addresses as well as drop people who don't really want to be on the list in the first place :) I will probably keep the ax.com list up for about a week and let people sub to the new one before the actual cutover, so none of you fiends will miss much jam :) I will hopefully also do some other much needed work on the list during this (like updating the file archive and teh subscription message and whatnot).
OK, that's all for now, Skadz
-- Ryan Skadberg | "there's a space beside us Ytsejam Moderator | and there's miles between us skadz@dreamt.org | and all around us http://www.dreamt.org/ | grows this shade of gray" | _A Pleasant Shade of Gray_ - Fates Warning
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Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:26:10 -0400 From: The Central Scrutinizer <hender@wam.umd.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Adrian Belew tix for sale / repeated listenings Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990601232610.009c9dc0@pop.wam.umd.edu>
I still have 2 Adrian Belew tickets for sale. The concert is on Friday, June 11th at the New Market Cabaret in Philadelphia, PA. It's general admission and strictly 21+ (the reason I need to sell my tix). If you are at all interested in seeing what promises to be a fantastic and intimate show with one of the best guitarist/singer/songwriters out there (IMO), or know somebody that might be, please write me back ASAP at hender@wam.umd.edu. The price is $57 for the pair ($28.50 individually -- what I paid), or best offer. I'm willing to negotiate price if it's an issue.
>Saying that people will like something if they just listen to it enough >times is flat-out wrong.
Agreed. I went to college liking Phish (owned 4 of their albums). My roommate listened to nothing but bootlegs of Phish and the Greatful Dead round the clock. Two years later, do I still like Phish? I think they're okay -- I still own the 4 albums. But I definitely have a harder time stomaching them than I did before. And I want to shove pencils through my eardrums when I hear Jerry Garcia now. It's the next level up -- from boredom to self-mutilation.
A present for anybody who's read this far:
http://members.xoom.com/dsandbu/shopguide.htm
It's a shopping guide for Tull albums/rarities, but up at the top are a ton of links to CDNow and other Internet vendor coupons. Have fun. Right then.
Brian
=================================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: hender@wam.umd.edu ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ His Faithful Bootleg Page: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/ ===================================
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4880 **************************
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