YTSEJAM Digest 4882
Today's Topics:
1) Re: You not Me Demo
by Nick Storr <nstorr@ozemail.com.au>
2) Flower Kings
by Donnie Bowers <deviantgerbil@yahoo.com>
3) Flower Kings?
by Donnie Bowers <deviantgerbil@yahoo.com>
4) Come out with your hands up!
by "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
5) Glenn Hughes Interview
by "Dreamgirl" <dreamgirl@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
6) RE: fake shocks
by "Agar, Jonathan (CAP, EURO)" <Jonathan.Agar@gecapital.com>
7) Shows
by EVENTdrums@aol.com
8) commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing
by bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
9) MTV thread
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
10) MTV: it's all about mind control
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
11) EW article on prog
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
12) Re: Music Psychology (was Re:Kids 'n' MTV)
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
13) Re: commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing
by trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
14) LTE II
by Batray3@aol.com
15) Devin & the Aphex Twin
by "Robert Sindermann" <sindermann@get2net.dk>
16) Am I crazy? My family might tell you the truth...
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
17) Re: fake shocks
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 21:42:19 +1000
From: Nick Storr <nstorr@ozemail.com.au>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: You not Me Demo
Message-ID: <199906021143.VAA01201@fep8.mail.ozemail.net>
>> I'd be happy to ICQ it out to whoever's interested.
>
> Or you can purchase it by buying the Hollow Years single and not
>shafting the band out of a few dollars.
>
> - mike.
Or you could do what I did, order and pay for it at CD-NOW, have it never
arrive and THEN download the MP3s :)
A word of warning for Overseas CDNOW buyers... don't use surface mail :)
Nick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:27:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Donnie Bowers <deviantgerbil@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Flower Kings
Message-ID: <19990602122730.13604.rocketmail@web203.mail.yahoo.com>
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 05:37:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Donnie Bowers <deviantgerbil@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Flower Kings?
Message-ID: <19990602123711.4729.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com>
Hello all,
Anyone at all have any information on the Flower
kings, maybe a web site address, place in Korea where
I might find that kind of music, people whom are
willing to sell their copies of any Flower Kings
material <crossing my fingers>. For any of you whom
have never heard the Flower Kings, you truly are
missing out an a FASCINATING take on progressive
music. Highly suggested, only trouble is, I have
never seen it anywhere. PERIOD. My fiance's father
put it on for me one time, and I have been searching
endlessly ever since. He travels around the world for
a living, so he can't even remember where he got
them... In addition to that, Spock's Beard? Sounds
interesting, where could I get a copy of their
material? Michigan would suffice as well... <give my
brother something to do>
The Reverend
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 09:29:38 EDT
From: "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Come out with your hands up!
Message-ID: <19990602132939.24967.qmail@hotmail.com>
As i was typing the word illegal i had this sense that this would happen...i
know there is no rights and wrongs and theory is a tool...what im talking
about is something extreme like a Bmaj and a Cmaj chord being picked
(individual notes) at the same time...i tried it as an experiment and it
sounded like both were out of tune with each other...so in this case dont
you think its what could referred to as illegal since it sounds like
SHIT..no matter the style of music.
However using Vai as an example is rough since he once stated himself that
you must understand all the theory rules before you can break them and know
how to break them....aren't those rules as well.
Chaos is in itself a contolled state but there are instances where i just
cant take the noise and long for tonal resolution ..ya know what i mean?
" As long as it sounds cool/OK it's never illigal (in
music or art to be frank
right but thats what im talking about| the times when its not cool...what
the hell is happening and why.... thats what im trying to find
out...(basically where am i gonna get the lead notes i need to allow the
dissonance of my backing chords thru.(and please dont say "from scales" ;>
Outlander
_______________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:38:00 +0100
From: "Dreamgirl" <dreamgirl@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Glenn Hughes Interview
Message-ID: <199906020632503@dreamgirl.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
http://www.angelfire.com/nb/NIXB/
Sorry folks, left the last forward slash off the address yesterday. It is easier if you go to the url above!
Never let go of your dreams ....
Get FREE dreamtheater.zzn.com email at http://www.dreamtheater.net/
___________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 14:36:32 +0100
From: "Agar, Jonathan (CAP, EURO)" <Jonathan.Agar@gecapital.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: RE: fake shocks
Message-ID: <83E9BD6E053FD111B35A0000F6093E2701A5BEBE@LON01XBCAPGE>
<zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be
<mailto:zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be> >
Subject: Re: fake shocks
As far as _I_ know, the main conlusion of that experiment
was that the subject were 'electroshocking' the fake subjects for a
surprisingly long time. Only when the 'victim' started to yell and screamed
in pain, most of them quit the experiment.
Cheers
Zaphod
-oOo-
Yes, that's what I thought. It was a test to see how concentration camp
guard mentality can arise. When the subjects wanted to break off because
they thought they were causing 'pain' by electric shocking the volunteer
students, the scientists told them 'You are required to increase the voltage
whenever the answers are false'. And they continued to do just that for
some time. I didn't even think 'most of them quit the experiment'.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:43:32 EDT
From: EVENTdrums@aol.com
To: event@dreamt.org, bostonjam@dreamt.org, fates@listservant.com,
Subject: Shows
Message-ID: <2cf656df.24869d14@aol.com>
Hey,
EVENT will be performing July 9 at Joslins in Billerica MA (Rt. 3 exit 28)
This show will feature the return of Divine Regale to the local scene after
touring with Fates Warning. After taking some time off to write and revamp
their line up, DR will be doing some local shows before going in to record
their next CD.
Matt
EVENT
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:50:38 -0500
From: bforst@busprod.com (Bruce Forst)
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Cc: eernewe1@gnofn.org
Subject: commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing
Message-ID: <199906021450.JAA21435@busprod.com>
>Going along with this commercial/MTV discussion,
>
>I have an experiece that will make y'all really wonder. I work at
>Blockbuster video. In the store we have a tape that plays over TV's in the
>store. Music on it is typical MTV stuff-Sugar ray, Sixpence ..., Britney
>Spears, Backstreet Boys. You get the picture. ......
for this reason I cut up my blockbuster card and pledged to never ever rent
from there again. There are alot of options and as long as people keep
supporting places that rip you off then they'll continue to be around... I
returned a video late to BB and they charged me close to $7 for a couple of
days.... I returned a movie late to the place I go to now...$ 0.67.
What I think pisses me off the most is not that people arent excersicing
their minds and being responsible for discovering their own tastes, its just
that in being so accepting and influenced by the media they are contributing
to media conglomerates that can maximize the money they make by getting
people to buy the same shit at the same time, thereby minimizing the
diversity of available material.
theres a simple concept at work here:
MTV creates a demographic to sell and deliver to advertisers. The more
people that they can get to have similar tastes the more ad revenue they can
demand. The most desirable audience to advertisers is one that is already
attuned to accepting what they are offered as the only option. MTV has
created a culture based around their programming. I call it brainwashing.
turn it on
keep watching
buy something
tune in tommorow
are you following your training?
bruce, thanks you for listening.
brforst@busprod.com
www.busprod.com/bforst/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:11:46 -0500
From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: MTV thread
Message-ID: <4.1.19990602095208.00916f00@mail.msy.bellsouth.net>
I've really enjoyed the MTV thread, it's been pretty civil(especially for
the Jam...hehe) and some good points have been said, so what if they've
been said before, some people didn't hear them before and now have the
satisfaction of reading the opinions...:)
Now, for my contribution, I'll say MTV is responsible for me getting into
Progressive Rock...don't laugh or drop dead, it's true. Back in the early
90's, I was a kid in middle school trying to find myself and all, trying to
stretch out from the jazz that my dad had raised me on(which I've always
loved, and have even grown to love more than ever), and finding an
appreciation for metal. I wasn't into for the image, I did think it was a
"cool" music though, everybody played their asses off for the most part,
and it was just good, well, MTV was the easiest way for me to listen to
music at the time, so I put it on, and saw the Silent Lucidity video.
Sure, it's not the most "progressive" music on earth, but it was the start,
and also the musical turning point of my life. Enough of the ACDC and
Warrant, Queensryche totally entranced me, the music, the mood, Tate's
singing, everything...well, I spent literally YEARS(till my senior year of
high school) trying to find another band like Queensryche...for the most
part, I was disappointed till I met someone who introduced me to DT, and
then it was all over...I finally found a band with the good vocals, good
music, plus the added pleasure of keyboards...:) So, in a funny way, MTV
did a good thing, surprisingly enough....hehe
As for what people are saying, yes, MTV has alot to say about what people
listen to, just look at things like "Buzz" clips, they're trying to push
things to make them look hip, and it works, and it sells. Is that bad???
Well, yes and no, bad because some of the music sucks, good because it is a
medium that can indeed introduce people to things.
Image sells though, sure, the Backstreet Boys are horrible, N'Sync is
worse, and I don't care how much my girlfriend makes me listen to them,
I'll hate them, but, I can actually see redeeming qualities in them, they
sing some melodies, they are G-Rated, so I'd rather young kids listen to
that than Korn or Marilyn Manson....Britney Spears is a different story,
she's hot, and that song is catchy, I dont care how gay it
sounds...hehe...There's nothing wrong with popular, Dave Matthews may be
popular, but I find he's one of the most refreshing bands to come out in
the 90's, good songs, good sound, nice different instrumentation(I'd love
to hear more horns in more bands)...My point??? Popular does not mean bad,
just means that they had the breaks as well as the selling point that got
them into the public eye...
Well, there were other things I wanted to say too, but I forgot them right
now...:)
np: John Coltrane "Giant Steps"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:10:49 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: "The 'I have a theory, and it is mine' Jam" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: MTV: it's all about mind control
Message-ID: <37554979.36A6@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
JamesAhab@aol.com wrote:
> So you're not as impressionable as most people. But a lot of people *will*
> like a song if they hear it enough.
I keep hearing that song on the radio that has that guitar/synth? that
sounds like a two-man saw ripping through a steel skull. The lyrics go
something like: "I'm doin' the best that I ever can, I doin' the best I
ever did, NOW GO AWAY!!!" heh
Just can't get that two-man saw sound out of my head. Sometime when I'm
driving down the road and someone cuts me off, I imagine taking a nice
sagital cut down their spine as I grit my teeth, snarl, and make that
sound.
The next time I watch Wild Word of Sports or the Logging Channel and
they have those Stihl competitions with the 300 pound beer bellies
climbing 100 foot Sequoias and chopping off perfectly shaped diskettes
in 3.2 seconds, I'll probably be reminded of this song again :))))
Your theory is partially true. I actually kind like the song a little.
Then again, I'm not 'most people'. Will I go out and buy it? Survey
says: what do you think? :)
> And the radio and the labels. MTV [doesn't] deserve all of the blame,
> but a damn lot of it.
And if it weren't for seeing the Pull Me Under video on MTV, I never
would have hopped on the DT bandwagon...as quickly :)
Ironic, ain't it? ;)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 10:19:11 -0500
From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: EW article on prog
Message-ID: <4.1.19990602101149.00affd80@mail.msy.bellsouth.net>
Yes, I remember the EW article, it was basically saying how prog is on a
slight upswing, saying that Dave Matthews and Ben Folds were helping it
out.(By the way, they REALLY hate Dave Matthews, I remember back last year
they said it was the worst album of the year because it had "thoughtful
lyrics and too many woodwind solos" guess they only like a bunch of samples
on a hip-hop album) They mentioned ELP and Yes, and their reference to Ben
Folds was because the new album is kind of a concept album...it also has
some orchestration, some long songs, instrumental passages...I really like
the album alot, my favorite of theirs by far, and I liked the other
albums....Interesting article, but not exactly an article that had a
favorable spin towards prog, but then EW tends to cater more to the "pop"
set, and are more in line with Entertainment Tonight than with other more
bold and daring magazines...I still like it though, I have the Jam to keep
me up on good prog, I have EW to keep me up on pop stuff that I may like....:)
np: Santana "Milagro"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 15:48:11 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Music Psychology (was Re:Kids 'n' MTV)
Message-ID: <3755523B.C6D@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Peter Geerts wrote:
> Jonathan Agar wrote:
> > turn. In around 80% of cases, the child also says 'seven'.
>
> Actually this isn't only true for children, but also for adults. In a
In a Social Psychology class I took, there was a similar experiment done
to determine the extent to which group behavior influences individual
behavior. It showed that, more often than not, when a test is given, an
individual is more likely to cheat if others in the group are also
cheating.
> As far as _I_ know, the main conlusion of that experiment was that the
> subject were 'electroshocking' the fake subjects for a surprisingly long
> time. Only when the 'victim' started to yell and screamed in pain, most of
> them quit the experiment.
Sounds right. The concept of 'honoring an obligation' is a learned
behavior. Indeed, the fact that some of the peeps had to be badgered to
keep them there meant they were on the fringe, juggling ethics and
morals inside their heads.
The concept of 'pain' is burned into the genetic code :) Most 'normal
:)' people don't have to think twice about it. You hear the scream,
there's no thought as to what's right or wrong. The instinct is to make
it stop....MAKE IT STOP!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH :) <kinison> OH, OH, OHHHH!!!
</kinison>
Wasn't that a newer version of an older experiment where one subject had
to quiz another, and when the quizee got an answer wrong, the quizer
themselves actually had to adminster a shock....to monkeys? Or something
like that. Can't remember. Too many shocks... :)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 09:34:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: commercialism, blockbuster, MTV brainwashing
Message-ID: <19990602163458.29722.rocketmail@web504.yahoomail.com>
--- Bruce Forst <bforst@busprod.com> wrote:
> for this reason I cut up my blockbuster card and
> pledged to never ever rent
> from there again. There are alot of options and as
> long as people keep
> supporting places that rip you off then they'll
> continue to be around... I
> returned a video late to BB and they charged me
> close to $7 for a couple of
> days.... I returned a movie late to the place I go
> to now...$ 0.67.
>
> What I think pisses me off the most is not that
> people arent excersicing
> their minds and being responsible for discovering
> their own tastes, its just
> that in being so accepting and influenced by the
> media they are contributing
> to media conglomerates that can maximize the money
> they make by getting
> people to buy the same shit at the same time,
> thereby minimizing the
> diversity of available material.
>
> theres a simple concept at work here:
>
> MTV creates a demographic to sell and deliver to
> advertisers. The more
> people that they can get to have similar tastes the
> more ad revenue they can
> demand. The most desirable audience to advertisers
> is one that is already
> attuned to accepting what they are offered as the
> only option. MTV has
> created a culture based around their programming. I
> call it brainwashing.
>
> turn it on
> keep watching
> buy something
> tune in tommorow
>
> are you following your training?
>
> bruce, thanks you for listening.
Yeah! Cool post. That probably sums up the whole
spiel moreso than any other post made on the subject.
Your post is going into my Ytsejam Hall Of Fame. Later!
===
*Trent
"I couldn't breathe, holdin' me down.
Hand on my face, pushed to the ground.
Enmity gauged, united by fear.
Forced to endure what I could not forgive."
* Eddie Vedder, a man amongst men
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 12:47:22 EDT
From: Batray3@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: LTE II
Message-ID: <58a40b26.2486ba1a@aol.com>
It's awesome folks. . . you are going to love it!!!
_____Nikki______________________
~~Through Nature's Inflexible Grace~~
~~I'm Learning to Live. --J. Myung~~
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 19:02:00 +0200
From: "Robert Sindermann" <sindermann@get2net.dk>
To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Devin & the Aphex Twin
Message-ID: <002a01bead19$dfb94040$538a2fc3@rob>
>> * You get to hear about wicked-ass collaborations like
>> Devin Townsend and=20
>> Aphex Twin. If this actually went down, I can't think of
>> a more=20
>> scary/talented/mind-blowing combination!!!!! Lots of
>> screams to be sure. =20
>Ok I must have been asleep when this was posted. When did
>this collaboration take form. The last I heard about Devy
>was that he was gonna do the next Strapping Young Lad album
>and then start work on a new solo album that is supposed to
>be heavier than strapping....
Uhm, sorry, I think I started that rumour. Our man in Korea asked about =
the Aphex Twin and in my reply I was kinda thinking out loud that I =
remembered there being some connection with Devy. But come to think of =
it, it's likely that I just saw Mr. Townsend mention A.T. in a SYL =
interview or something. Again, sorry.
But it would rule if they actually did something together... Wishful =
thinking, I guess.
Rob
-------------------------------
The Chaos Engine - CD cover and packaging designs
website: http://hjem.get2net.dk/sindermann
e-mail: sindermann@get2net.dk
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 13:30:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Am I crazy? My family might tell you the truth...
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990602131859.28965A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
Despite my humongous urges telling me to do otherwise, and all those
lessons from my mother telling me to SAVE my money instead of frivolously
spending it, I ordered LTE through that gift certificate to buy.com.
Thanks goes out to whomever it was that sent that link to the jam.
It hasn't arrived yet, but I am anxiously awaiting it.
In another stupid move, I used a 5.00 credit to CDNow to pre-purchase
LTE II. If my mother found out, she'd kill me - she has this thing about
me spending money. I don't feel it's a frivolous purchase, though. So
don't tell her, and I won't tell her, and she'll never know.
But I just decided that I HAD to have these CDs after going to the
Portnoy/Petrucci clinic and hearing the live LTE NAMM stuff. So I
splurged a little, since I had money off on them.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu
http://cout.home.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
"No one wants to fuck with a crazy person. If
someone tries to mug you, The best thing you can
do is take out your money, and piss on it while
mumbling and ranting. Chances are, they'll get
scared and leave you alone. Of course, you'll
have to wash your money."
- Norman Calkin, on urban survival
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 11:03:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: fake shocks
Message-ID: <19990602180338.9845.rocketmail@web109.yahoomail.com>
Peter Geerts
<zaphod@ace.ulyssis.student.kuleuven.ac.be> added:
>On Tue, 1 Jun 1999, Joshua Rasiel wrote:
>> I guess they were good at that, because as far as I
know, most of the
>> subjects would end up staying, choosing not to
dishonor their
>> obligation.
>As far as _I_ know, the main conlusion of that
experiment was that the
>subject were 'electroshocking' the fake subjects for
a surprisingly long
>time. Only when the 'victim' started to yell and
screamed in pain, most
>of them quit the experiment.
If I remember correctly, many of the subjects
continued the shocks even after the "victim" STOPPED
screaming (i.e. unconscious or dead).
I believe this was an experiment to see what people
might do under "orders". Possibly spawned by Nazi
trials after WWII (where the "I was following orders"
defense was often used). Unfortunately, this is human
nature, and people will do (or agree with) horrible
things with the slightest peer pressure or
self-rightous propaganda.
my $.02, BH
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------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4882
**************************
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