YTSEJAM Digest 4900
Today's Topics:
1) 15/16 revisited
by "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
2) Re: Just Let Me Breathe
by Portnoy420@aol.com
3) Re: No more wire hangers....EVER!!!
by "Miguel Farah F." <miguel@antonia.webhost.cl>
4) Re: double hi-hats...?! cooL!
by bplumb@pi-r-squared.com
5) Fifteen Sixteen
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
6) james Voice on FII
by Kurt Hampton <eernewe1@gnofn.org>
7) Re: Just Let Me Breathe
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
8) Re: Fifteen Sixteen
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
9) More KevMo crap, Portnoys voice
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
10) re: I miss you Moore than ever.
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
11) re: I miss you Moore than ever.
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
12) Top ten lists versus album reviews / band recommendations
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
13) austin powers is one sexy bitch
by Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
14) Re: austin powers is one sexy bitch
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
15) "The Need For Speed" or "Exercises in Fingering"
by The Central Scrutinizer <hender@wam.umd.edu>
16) playing exercises
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:43:43 -0400
From: "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: 15/16 revisited
Message-ID: <000701beb503$81be1500$8fa808cf@ckssrs.axiomnet.com>
In my attempt to find a use of 15/16 in DT, Andrew Countermarsh wrote:
>Don't know if there is or is not any section that uses 15/16 time, but all
>you have to do is listen for a rock shuffle (triplet feel) in 5. That's
>the easiest way I could think of to find it.
Just so no one gets confused, that's actually 15/8, which DT does use in
ACOS. (Amazingly great feel in my opinion)
Then Ptacek told me that if DT did use it...it was probably more of a feel
thing rather than a deliberate use of 15/16. Since this is the case, does
anyone have any mp3s of another band doing stuff in this time sig? I know
Steve Gadd would most likely have something out there, but I wouldn't know
where to look. Maybe Spastik Ink too? Again, any help is greatly
appreciated :)
Scott.
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:33:30 EDT
From: Portnoy420@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Just Let Me Breathe
Message-ID: <f58b04ea.2494100a@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/12/99 2:10:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time, CHAZRUSHAM
writes:
<< What instrument is being played at the being of Just Let Me Breathe. Are
they Maracas? >>
Something I've never heard done before...
I played "double hi-hats"
In other words, I played 16th notes with my feet on my main and remote
high-hat pedals.
That's maybe why it sounds a little less presise than a maracca or a shaker...
Thanks for noticing!
Mike Portnoy
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:53:28 -0400 (CLT)
From: "Miguel Farah F." <miguel@antonia.webhost.cl>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: No more wire hangers....EVER!!!
Message-ID: <199906121953.PAA13766@antonia.webhost.cl>
>
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 00:24:46 EDT
>From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
>To: ytsejam@axnet.net
>Subject: No more wire hangers....EVER!!!
>Message-ID: <19990612042448.78376.qmail@hotmail.com>
>[...]>
>3. Ditto for me. DT seemed more like *band* when Kevin
>was in the band. FII doesn't feel like that to me.
>OIAL is good tho, very good. Awake is my fave DT
>album, I play it all the time and I have to say that
>Kevin's contributions to the disc are some of my
>favorite aspects of it. I didn't get into FII as
>much. Good, but not up to the Awake's level. But
>then, I'd sooner listen to FII than most of I&W, so
>there ya go. :o)
I also miss Kevin Moore. HOWEVER, I've put my mourning on hold until the
new DT album arrives: maybe Jordan Rudess will bury it definitely.
AFAIC, I'll wait until I'm dissapointed at the new album, THEN I'll
start bitching. :-)
-- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@webhost.cl #include <disclaimer.h> // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:53:12 -0500 From: bplumb@pi-r-squared.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: double hi-hats...?! cooL! Message-ID: <2.2.32.19990612195312.01266a34@pi-r-squared.com>
>Something I've never heard done before... >I played "double hi-hats" >In other words, I played 16th notes with my feet on my main and remote >high-hat pedals. >That's maybe why it sounds a little less presise than a maracca or a shaker... > >Thanks for noticing! >
And this is why Mike is so damn innovative... I'm a drummer and I never even would have thought of it.. I wonder why more people haven't tried it.. up until now I've never seen the use of having more than one hi hat but maybe... blah.
Palpatine "Thank God I'm an aetheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "Perhaps god gave the answers to those with nothing to say"- Savatage: Somewhere in time "So You're saying that in your scientific opinion, Bess McNeil died from an overdose of... being good..?" -Breaking the Waves
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:58:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Fifteen Sixteen Message-ID: <199906121958.OAA19513@adam.enteract.com>
> From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> > Subject: Re: 15/16 > > > Hey guys...Little question for you. Is there any DT song which uses > > 15/16 in any place? I've heard that it's in ACOS for two separate > > measures, but I have never been able to locate it myself. If someone > > feels like sending me an approximate time I'd be most grateful! Thank > > you very much! > > Don't know if there is or is not any section that uses 15/16 time, but all > you have to do is listen for a rock shuffle (triplet feel) in 5. That's > the easiest way I could think of to find it.
Right on. But if it feels like a triplet feel in 5, shouldn't the time sig be 5/4 or 5/8 or something? A triplet feel wouldn't generally be 15 different notes... you would normally expect some repetition. I dunno. But I agree with you, and I think that DT themselves would probably just feel it as a big ol' triplet (or a complex quintuplet)
--
Chris Ptacek - someone@prognosis.com "Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 15:02:53 -0500 (CDT) From: Kurt Hampton <eernewe1@gnofn.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: james Voice on FII Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.95.990612150040.6620A-100000@sparkie.gnofn.org>
I noticed what a lot of you are speaking of. His voice does not sound "as Rich" as it did on Awake or ACOS. It is impossible for his voice to lose its value over a period of year. I just got the Carpe Diem boot from Scarred, and beside from the digital messups on the recording, the band is awesome, esp. labrie.
Kurt
******~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~****** @----'--,--- ******~~~~~~~~~~~~~~****** "I remember Now" "Rodney King, what the hell is that supposed to mean? He's that guy." Airheads ************************************************************************
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:53:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Just Let Me Breathe Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990612165204.15369A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 Portnoy420@aol.com wrote:
> Something I've never heard done before... > I played "double hi-hats" > In other words, I played 16th notes with my feet on my main and remote > high-hat pedals. > That's maybe why it sounds a little less presise than a maracca or a > shaker...
AHA! I listened to it again, and realized that the sounds that I heard that didn't sound precise weren't the actual sounds of the hi-hats going DOWN, but releasing instead! The reason it felt so out of sync was because I was listening for the wrong thing!
I just KNEW that MP couldn't have been that off.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://cout.home.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- Sometimes, when I would read a very good book, I would stop and thank my teacher. At least, I used to, until she got an unlisted number. -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 16:57:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Fifteen Sixteen Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990612165422.15369B-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Christopher Ptacek wrote:
> > Don't know if there is or is not any section that uses 15/16 time, but > > all you have to do is listen for a rock shuffle (triplet feel) in 5. > > That's the easiest way I could think of to find it. > > Right on. But if it feels like a triplet feel in 5, shouldn't > the time sig be 5/4 or 5/8 or something? A triplet feel wouldn't > generally be 15 different notes... you would normally expect some > repetition. I dunno. But I agree with you, and I think that DT > themselves would probably just feel it as a big ol' triplet (or a > complex quintuplet)
Actually, a triplet-feel time signature would be done in a multiple of three. A four-beat triplet feel time sig would be 12/8, a three beat triplet feel time sig would be 9/8, so therefore a five beat triplet feel time sig would be 15/8. (It works for 15/16 as well, it just depends on what you break the beat up into, whether it's a dotted quarter note or a dotted eighth note.)
If you'd really like to learn a little more about time signatures, I suggest you look into a Music History and/or music Theory book. These usually go into deep explanation of how time sigs were created and are used.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://cout.home.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- Ah, music! What a beautiful art! But what a wretched profession! - Georges Bizet -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 13:58:49 -0700 From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: More KevMo crap, Portnoys voice Message-ID: <3762CA09.50F074FF@ucla.edu>
The beauty of my love of DT is that it's only a year or so old. By the time I picked up my first album, Awake, Kevin was gone. Since then I have become a much bigger fan, and I definitely notice the differences in the music. I'm not gonna be like most of the people here and call the guy who suggested it a shithead, a prick, a dillhole, or some of those other delightful ytsejam adjectives, but I totally disagree with the chnaging the name of the band idea. That would be a complete disrespect to the rest of the band. So what if the sound changed? The sound changes every album.
About the MP backing vocals.. if you've ever expressed any interest in his voice, you should have been at the LTE show in LA at the Roxy. Mike tried to whistle on Chris and Kevin's Excellent adventure, decided he couldnt whistle, and tried to sing. All I can say is *cringe*.
~~Amanda
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 14:27:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: re: I miss you Moore than ever. Message-ID: <19990612212714.21177.rocketmail@web126.yahoomail.com>
"Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> replied to the latest and greatest take on the KevMO thread:
>>I am SO with you. I'll even go as far as to say that they could >>have(should have?) changed the name when Kevin left.
> And I totally disagree with.... > The mere idea that any >established< band or personality should change their > name is ludicrous. It's what people recognize them by. Say Dream Theater > changes their name to "The Moist Towlettes" after Kevin left. Everyonewho > didn't have the inside track like we do would be like, "Hmmm...I wonder > whatever happened to that Dream Theater band? They just dropped off of the > face of the earth."
Actually, I think that "moist towlettes" probably have more name recognition with the general public then Dream Theater. But that's a different topic.
The name change issue is interesting, and it usually comes down to legal issues. Many bands have kept the same name through major changes, until there isn't even one founding member left. Look at Jefferson Airplane/Starship. They changed enough over the years that it was an entirely different band at times, but legal issues are what really caused the multiple name changes.
Led Zeppelin refused to continue without Bonzo, but maybe that would have been different if he had just left the band (as opposed to really checking-out).
Look at what Yes has done. Was ABWH the same as Yes? Some people would say that ABWH was more "Yes" than Yes was at the time. Ten years from now we may have a band called "Petrucci, Moore, Portnoy and Dominici" (with Tony Levin on bass but uncredited). Would that be Dream Theater? (Myung of course would own the DT name, since he was the last remaining original member. DT at that point would consist of Myung, Geoff Tate, Jordan Rudess, Mark Zonder and Steve Vai).
For me, I can care less what a band calls themselves. It's about the music, baby.
As for our friend KevMo, it's obvious that he was a key player in DT through Awake. As a matter of fact, he was probably as important to prog-metal keyboard playing as Yngwie or Eddie Van Halen was to guitar. He was (is) very distinctive in his playing and composition. Any keyboard player that sounds like KevMo brings that "DT clone" label down on the entire band. I don't know how many times I've heard Symphony X called a "DT clone" just because of the keyboards. Why aren't they called an Yngwie clone? Romeo is as close to Yngwie as they come.
This should not be taken has a put down of ANY of the members of DT. They are ALL great musicians. The best at what they do. This was just another angle on Lisa's original post, which was an attempt to illustrate Kevin's perceived importance to Dream Theater Mark I and Mark II. So important that it's almost a different band without him (for better or for worse).
Personally, I can't wait to hear DT Mark IV...
my $.04, BH
NP-John Coltrane/Blue Train
_________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 18:00:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: re: I miss you Moore than ever. Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990612175846.16765A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Brian Hansen wrote:
> As for our friend KevMo, it's obvious that he was a > key player in DT through Awake.
Does anybody else find this a hilarious statement? What else is KevMo going to be besides a "key player" in DT through Awake. I mean, he didn't SING, for crissake.
(This was pure sarcasm, I just found the double meaning hilarious)
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://cout.home.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- The only stupid question is the one that is never asked, except maybe "Don't you think it is about time you audited my return?" or "But officer, isn't it morally wrong to give me a warning when, in fact, I was speeding?" -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:45:05 -0400 From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Top ten lists versus album reviews / band recommendations Message-ID: <3762F101.E137B20A@home.com>
Outlander said: > through private mail ive gotten killer responses but i would > like to see it in digest form (like album reviews and such from like-minded > music lovers)
Outlander,
I don't think anybody here on the Jam would mind seeing any cool, intelligent album reviews. I know I personally wouldn't mind a bit!
The difference is this: A top ten list just spawns nothing but an endless stream of MORE top 10 lists. Basically, we end up seeing dozens of posts, just listing (mostly) bands we've heard of before, without actually providing any useful information. In contrast, when we see an interesting album review it creates actual conversation/discussion on the band/album, not just endless lists.
Also (on a related note), if you want to find out about some cool music you may like, your best bet may be making a quick post saying something about what you like, and ask for recommendations. This has really worked for me before. I think you'll find that you get lots of feedback, like "What..... you want something progressive like DT, but sorta neo-classical, and heavy as hell? Man, you've GOT to check out Symphony X". Or something like that. =)
--
- Joe DeAngelo jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723 -------------------------------------------- "Our worlds collide, now in disguise You'll feel the Wrath Divine Tears of woe fall from the sky..." - Symphony X, "The Divine Wings of Tragedy" ---------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:07:07 PDT From: Partha Mukhopadhyay <ahtrap@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: austin powers is one sexy bitch Message-ID: <19990613000707.5738.qmail@hotmail.com>
spoiler on the austin powers movie coming up, turn away if you must....
they mention.....progressive rock! in a non-negative reference! they actually use that phrase! mind-blowing! the genre is surely having a comeback if it's mentioned in austin powers!
sorry, i'm still kinda aching from the laughter....these ribs can't take that much punishment any more :)
dtq: that guy who mentioned a possible october release for DT99, where did info come from? is that some kind of guess, or based on a band member (read: MP) statement?
oh, and speaking of MP, Jon Parmet is still waiting for your favorite Mike Portnoy drum fills to be sent to his emailbox, I know y'all got opinions on the man's best arm-and-leg-flailing instances
partha
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:53:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: austin powers is one sexy bitch Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990612205244.20528A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sat, 12 Jun 1999, Partha Mukhopadhyay wrote:
> dtq: that guy who mentioned a possible october release for DT99, where > did info come from? is that some kind of guess, or based on a band > member (read: MP) statement?
That was actually about the ONLY thing we could get out of Mike at the MP & JP clinic. So yes, it came straight from the horse's mouth: We can expect the new DT album in the fall, probably October or early November.
If my memory serves me correctly, that's what he said.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://cout.home.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- Save Water - Take a bath with your neighbor's daughter. -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:42:44 -0400 From: The Central Scrutinizer <hender@wam.umd.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: "The Need For Speed" or "Exercises in Fingering" Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990612214244.009c2540@pop.wam.umd.edu>
> Just wondering if anyone out there, preferably someone who plays keys, > knows of any good exercises for playing faster (I know, practice!). Any > tips are welcome.
There's a book out there called "Hanon - The Virtuoso Pianist." It's pretty widely available, to my knowledge, and used by loads of piano teachers.
Here's an online-bookstore review:
http://www.musicbooksplus.com/books/cc006.htm
Pretty damn cheap too. They are no fun to play, and seem almost *too* easy (especially when compared to the lightning fast progmetal keyboardists), but they really do build your hand strength...which leads to speed.
Hope that helps.
Brian
=================================== Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq. Contact: hender@wam.umd.edu ROBOT-CENTRAL: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/ His Faithful Bootleg Page: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/ ===================================
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Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 21:51:31 EDT From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: playing exercises Message-ID: <19990613015133.14950.qmail@hotmail.com>
Someone asked:
Just wondering if anyone out there, preferably someone who plays keys, knows of any good exercises for playing faster (I know, practice!). Any tips are welcome.
And then someone said:
One milestone for me was when I wrote my own COMPLETE song that I fully enjoyed. Played it with a band over and over and over. And because it was MY song I enjoyed it enough to go home and play it some more. Same damn song again and again. All of a suddenI found I could play it very close to double speed with a great deal of clarity. So writing your own stuff is a great way to stay interested in learnig to pull something off.
This has got to be some of the best advice in general ive heard posted here...
playing your own music as well as others over and over should not bore you at all...think of it this way
Each time you work on something youve done alot try to spot your accents and special spots where the technique needs something a little extra wheter its shifting your hand/hands or adding/decreasing amounts of vibrato.
then try transposing it to different keys and along the way you will discover better ways to play your stuff (even covers) and not to mention the fact that you will find all kinds of stuff that can be harmonized together and your music will open to new horizons
WRITE WRITE WRITE Take what you know for a ride on your CD
just an example: I wrote this piece of of music that went intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-verse-chorus-outro (because the chorus was really good)
and after putting it through the machine you read above not only did it turn into intro-verse-chorus-verse-bridge-verse-outro (to leave you waiting for the chorus that never comes back until you hit the REV KEY) But the verse and the outro changed keys and places in the structure while the chorus evolved into an even bigger part where the original chorus played while the guitar ....drenched in effects...did the single string melody over the top where lyrics used to be.
whats the point?...after all this my tune is 1000 times bigger and better and i have benifitted from stepping through all those changes technically. Oh yeah!..and i also learned that you should never consider a tune complete until its on a CD rack somewhere (or in a big box in your garage) whatever applies
Since my tune went from lyrics to instrumental right before my eyes
So even though you practice practice practice remember to also use every fraction of your time either exploring new areas and getting new stuff down right or garb a rag and embellish the hell out of your older stuff...or stuff that you currently feel is a finished product
BTW...im a guitarist not a keybaord player but these things are universal in the song-writing sense.
Since im on this subject is there technology in place yet where musicians can write over the net? (please...no smart-assed flames)
Besides putting different parts in mp3 format...(i dont know...like a chat room filled with music) virtual studio
or is it around and im just missing out?
Outlander
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4900 **************************
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