YTSEJAM Digest 4909
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Long songs... :)
by trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
2) Re: Bombay Vindaloo blows the FAQ out of Fred Meyer!
by "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu>
3) Ta-check and Widespread Improv
by Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com>
4) Vindaloo
by Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com>
5) Go FAQ yourselves! ;>
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
6) woo-hoo!
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
7) Re: library computers, `fake` prog
by JamesAhab@aol.com
8) Re: Go FAQ yourselves! ;>
by "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu>
9) It's a cooking show! No, it's a flame war! It's both! :)
by Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@mail.geocities.com>
10) Re: Bombay Vindaloo blows the FAQ out of Fred Meyer!
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
11) Nitrous Oxide & stuff......
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
12) What is Progressive?
by "J." <kube@nh.ultranet.com>
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 17:26:20 -0700 (PDT)
From: trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Long songs... :)
Message-ID: <19990616002620.1564.rocketmail@send205.yahoomail.com>
--- bplumb@pi-r-squared.com wrote:
> How about ACOS? I'm sorry, I just can't bring myself
> to think APSOG as one
> long song, it's a cd. ;) If the tracks are divided
> people won't care, Pink
> Floyd's Dark Side falls in to the same category but
> a lot of people who hate
> long songs love the album just cuz it's got track
> divisions. Give em a real
> treat(?) and make em listen to some loooong DT ;)
>
> Palpatine
I personally appreciate dividing up long songs. I
mean, not all long songs should be divided up, if the
actual mood of the song never changes (Led Zeppelin's
"Kashmir" comes to mind). But song like ACOS should
be divided up b/c it's techinically more than one
song. Hell, that's how DT play it! ACOS should've
been divided. Cool song tho. Or perhaps cool
songs...?
Blowin' off steam,
===
*Trent
"They said that timing was everything,
made him want to be everywhere,
there's a lot to be said for nowhere."
* Eddie Vedder, a man amongst men and all around cool guy
_________________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:16:43 -0300
From: "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Bombay Vindaloo blows the FAQ out of Fred Meyer!
Message-ID: <011401beb787$43cb0880$f9252ac4@viper>
>But there could've been potatoes in it, too. That we were never informed
>of. :) Maybe Bombay is Indian for chicken or something.
Who would name the capital of their country "chicken"? :)
--Dan McCormack (dmc@dreamt.org) Computer Engineer, WSBF-FM Clemson 88.1 http://wsbf.clemson.edu/
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:35:51 -0400 From: Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Ta-check and Widespread Improv Message-ID: <4.2.0.56.19990615165748.009dd860@pop.mindspring.com>
At 08:45 AM 6/15/99 -0700, you wrote:
> But to call it "fusion" is like calling Meat Loaf "prog." This is >totally UNfusion. I don't hear anything that really sounds like honest >improvisation, short of a few of Jordan's fills.
This is an excellent point and has always been one of my biggest hangups with progressive metal. I still haven't found a prog metal band that really improvs at length. Your old mainstays like Queensryche wouldn't dream of changing a setlist during a tour, much less throw something into the show that isn't planned out (including Geoff's "patter" to the crowd, which really bothers me). Dream Theater used to suffer from this as well, tho' they've gotten better about it recently. That's one thing I think Derek really added to the band - spontaneity and energy in a live setting. Nightmare Cinema would have never happened if Jordan had originally joined the band, nor, IMO, all the great covers we've heard recently. Derek loosened the band up a bit.
Something I'd really like to see in the next era of Dream Theater is more jamming and improvisation on stage. We know these guys are all technical wizards, but can they utilize those skills on the fly to create something totally new? I don't think we've seen them try yet. This is the reason I go to see bands like Widespread Panic all the time. They don't have even remotely the technical abilities of DT but they are very competent and really try to make something new everytime they go on stage. Every show is different, which is why I've seen about 30 of them in the past two years. What they try doesn't always work, which is actually what makes it so interesting. It takes balls to go out there not knowing exactly what will go on. For a single show Dream Theater definitely puts on a better show, but going to more than one show during a particular leg of the tour is of questionable worth. You'll see some changes (and the same phenomenal playing), but it's essentially the same. James said during the Fan Club show and some of the Holiday shows that he gets sick of diong the same thing every night. My question is - so why do you do it?
>"Damn!" when you hear it, and many of you will go into denial about Derek's >playing. He's a bad ass, and I still think he has the best lead sounds out >of any keyboardist I've ever heard. EVER.
This is also something I definitely agree on. I've been moving older FII shows to CD lately and have really noticed Derek's playing more than I did upon first listen. He adds a great deal of power to the tight and clean piano and synth sounds traditionally found in prog/neo metal playing. One might argue that he uses excessive guitar-type tone, but I think he does enough with that tone that a guitarist isn't capable of doing that he makes it worthwhile. I welcome Jordan's addition to the band because I don't think there's a better keyboardist available today, but for this reason and what I babbled about above made Derek FAR from a detriment to Dream Theater.
Everyone please check out my ftp site (24.5.106.175) in the next few days for a new DT show, a Pink Floyd show, a Led Zeppelin show, and, when I can track down setlists, Medeski Martin Wood and Bela Fleck shows. I'm also very excited about having a Jazz is Dead show (featuring Rod Morgenstein from RMP and T. Lavitz from the Dregs) about to be available. All of these are high quality mp3. Excellent stuff. Take care all...
Adam
_________________________________________________ Adam Pye (Alpine) alpine1(-at-)mindspring.com ICQ: 41032734 http://www.mindspring.com/~alpine1 ^^ Above URL for MP3 of the Week and Tapelist w/ Setlists __________________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:09:13 -0700 From: Adam Barnhart <adamb@cfmc.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Vindaloo Message-ID: <4.1.19990615180524.009559b0@pop.cfmc.com>
>From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> >Subject: Re: Bombay Vindaloo > >AFAIK, vindaloo is a recipe consisting of typical >indian spices with the addition of crushed, dried red >pepper. Potatoes really don't have anything to do with >it, although they can be added to any recipe. > >I.e., you were bullshitted. (Unless you ordered >Potatoes Vindaloo).
Erm. Sorta. For what it's worth, "aloo" means "potato" in Hindi. There are a number of recipes one can find for vindaloo, however, that don't include an aloo...I've even eaten one at a North Indian restaurant. The old joke amongst my friends, then, is that the recipes and meals in question should simply be called "vind." But that sounds sorta German, which creates ancillary problems.
Make of that what you will...
Adam D. Barnhart adamb@cfmc.com ydnt85a@prodigy.com http://www.cfmc.com/adamb
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:38:25 EDT From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Go FAQ yourselves! ;> Message-ID: <19990616013828.38575.qmail@hotmail.com>
Jonas Opsal wrote:
Yea sure, the Jam has an informative welcome message, and that's good. But, Dream Theater fans are in general, not only on the YtseJam, very quick to bitch someone for not doing the research they themselves have done.
I can understand the people who are sick of seeing the same questions over and over again, but get over it! There will always be someone who's new, and curious about something that WE all know. So, like my father says: "If you don't have anything nice to say, please SHUT UP!" You don't have to answer the stupid question, do you?
------
THAT WAS VERY WELL SAID
>Am I the only one who feels this way?
Absolutely not! and everyone who agrees with us are re-posted via MY "copy/paste" to further make a point. All of you are so quick to set atop a perch that grows higher everytime you all slam someone at the same time for questions and things like grammar (if you understand it enough to crack on it then why waste your time pointing out their mistakes....like run-on sentences and other violations of English)(I speak American BTW not English) And personally i think it makes you look like a bunch of dicks!(girls included);>
Heres another person who agrees with me
and i'm sure theres plenty that agree but have something to post but are flame-shy
In any event, when I joined the jam a few months ago (January or thereabouts), I had basically no knowledge of DT and didn't really pretend to. I skimmed about a section of the FAQ before thinking "Get me outta here!" I figured I could learn more about the band by reading the bios on dreamtheater.net and reading what everyone else had to say. I didn't post until I felt I could contribute something of some value to whatever discussion. A person doesn't necessarily need to read the FAQ to have his/her questions answered. I'm not even certain that it's a very good resource as I've used it for jackshit. I'm very much a neophyte DT fan, but I do know some things and I've never felt the need to read the FAQ for anything. The only thing I couldn't figure out was what LTE stood for. I privately e-mailed a list member (I think it might've been Korg, or perhaps Al) and asked my question. The response was "LTE stands for Liquid Tension Experiment. That's a band featuring Mike, Jordan, John and Tony Levin. They just released an CD and they're about to perform a few club gigs to promote it. However, all of this is in the FAQ." Did I read the FAQ? Nope. But all my FAQ-like answers (except for one) were answered simply by shutting up and letting the other list members answer my questions before I ask them. One example of a question that was answered that I never asked was who in the hell were the Derek and Kevin characters and what the hell was the rivalry about. Listening to DT albums and reading the jam answered that question. A FAQ isn't totally necessary, IMHO.
AGAIN READ THIS
One example of a question that was answered that I never asked was who in the hell were the Derek and Kevin characters and what the hell was the rivalry about. Listening to DT albums and reading the jam answered that question.
SEE WHAT I MEAN??! Because of your uppity snob-like behavior you have gotten people to the point where they dont want to be cracked on for asking a question. Granted, he found his answer just hanging out and reading some jam but the point is the same
How many questions have been unasked due to your attitude? Ask yourself this...Is what you are doing a progressive thing?(DT-Progressive Rock) No...its not. Its an elitist egghead asshole thing?
Back to Trent>>
To recap, there's nothing wrong with helping someone who's in need. Sending them a nastygram telling them to read the FAQ along with several expletives does nothing to make friends, nor does it give a good impression of the jam.
*Trent
Im in 100% agreement with the above statement!!(just in case you have not been reading the entire post) :>
<more>
>Example: Some guy is a DT "freak", but doesn't have an internet connection at home, so he goes to the library (or whatever) to borrow a computer with an internet connection. he discovers that there is a big community of DT fans out there! He sends an e-mail to someone... ><
>>>>>Can't send e-mail if you're using the internet on a library computer. >>>>>I'll have to assume the "or whatever."
On this comment:You must have a low-budget library then because every one I have been to has an intranet(and NO thats not a typo)..........ever heard of www.hotmail.com?/juno.com?/yahoo.com???
>And how the heck will he know what a FAQ is if he is new to the net? ><
>>>>>FAQs aren't restricted to the internet.
See what Im saying????....vague and snobbish
But when all is said and done, the inhabitants of the jam and their precious FAQ aren't as evil as you'd like to think.
I too, am an inhabitant here. But, as for the last statement, I don't think you (Inhabitants--=old-timers---"real-fans"---"ytsejammers!") are evil. I think suggesting someone go read the FAQ instead of answering them is really fuckin' lame!! Its like someone asking you that at a party and you say "Go read the fuckin' book and find out!"
Get over yourselves....because if you wanna be elitist about it then ill say this. Personally i have supported this band since the beginning and to say that that makes me more of a fan than you is as retarded as saying the same because you started a list and moderated it!
I say again, GET OVER YOURSELVES END OF TRANSMISSION Outlander
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:48:10 EDT From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: woo-hoo! Message-ID: <19990616014810.60023.qmail@hotmail.com>
? NONE of us knew absolutely everything there is to know about DT when we first came on-line, so there's no reason we should take offense to educating new people in the same manner.
Kinda like you were beaten as a child so beat your children too?
And now I'm left with a list of people who dont like me for speaking my mind (and for any other reasons you would like to come up with) and a recipe for Bombay Vindaloo. WOO-HOO! Outlander
_______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 21:55:38 EDT From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: library computers, `fake` prog Message-ID: <1a23b66d.24985e1a@aol.com>
>< > Can't send e-mail if you're using the internet on a library computer. What kind of libraries have you been in? You obviously can't use the ones that have replaces the card catlogues, but most libraries I have been too have regular PCs as well. Maybe this is just because the only libraries I've been too lately are on campus. ><
They have PCs. They have the internet, and you're allowed to use it, but you can't send and recieve e-mail at your local library. They can't give personal e-mail addresses for everyone who comes in and plans to come back a second time. At campus libraries, yes. Colleges have domains, they can give out email, etc.
>< Don't let it get to you. Some slapdick drummer magazine labeled KoRn as a "progressive" band. Hell, even Ben Folds Five has been labeled as being prog. 90% of these idiots know not of what they speak. ><
Ben Folds Five *is* progressive, as in their music progresses. They have progressive elements to their music just as Savatage or Galactic Cowboys does. Being non-mainstream and heavy metal aren't requisites for being labelled progressive.
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:20:08 -0300 From: "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Go FAQ yourselves! ;> Message-ID: <002401beb796$623a06e0$f9252ac4@viper>
>discussion. A person doesn't necessarily need to read >the FAQ to have his/her questions answered. I'm not
no, but that's the best and easiest way.
>the jam answered that question. A FAQ isn't totally >necessary, IMHO.
there seems to be a misconception amongst people who are told to read the faq and get angry at it. you arent supposed to read it all. it's a list of frequently asked questions. if you have a question, you look it up and poof! you have an answer. cool, huh? the things they do with technology today. what'll they think of next?
>On this comment:You must have a low-budget library then because every one I >have been to >has an intranet(and NO thats not a typo)..........ever heard of >www.hotmail.com?/juno.com?/yahoo.com???
you're suggesting someone makes a whole hotmail account just to send one email to a list he has heard nothing about?
>I think suggesting someone go read the FAQ instead of answering them is >really fuckin' lame!!
Thats because you havent had to do it 936 times. I liked the example that someone (korg? maybe i just attribute all cool sayings to korg :) used: restaurants put up a sign that says "restroom ---->" because answering the question over and over again gets annoying, and its easier for the customers to just look at the sign and go instead of having to find someone and ask them. same here. asking someone once where a bathroom is would be no problem. but at a restaurant im guessing lots of people go to the bathroom. someone probably noticed "ya know, we get asked this so much, we should just put a sign up." so they did. hence a faq. its a way of making it easier for everyone. that would be like thinking someone is an ass for wondering why they have to tell you where the bathroom is when there is a big sign pointing to it.
>I say again, GET OVER YOURSELVES >END OF TRANSMISSION >Outlander
copyright infringement. but hey, i'm flattered.
and if for some reason you think i'm being a dick, well, it's not because i think i'm better than you. it's because it's fun. moo.
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
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Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 21:23:13 -0600 From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@mail.geocities.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: It's a cooking show! No, it's a flame war! It's both! :) Message-ID: <l03110700b399f7eac585@[209.30.156.31]>
Hi! Time for my quarterly post to the 'jam. To all the newbies: Hi! :) To the old timers: I've been too busy with work (yes, college ends) to post lately. Oh yeah, some of these things were addressed in the last jam, but since I was interrupted earlier, I'll post anyway. :}
Chris "Pronounce my name right and win a prize" Ptacek wrote:
>Subject: It's a new age for Madsman >I can't believe I'm letting the >bullshit that some of you just recently spewed slide.
Me either! Chris! What's the matter with you? And Maddy, what have you DONE with the guy who flamed me so many years ago? ;) ;)
Jonas Opsal wrote:
>How about politely telling them what a FAQ is and where they can find >it, in adittion to answering their question.
Ooh! Ooh! /me raises her hand! Or what about (gasp) private email? Yes folks, private email CAN be your friend. I've met several nice people by answering their questions privately, especially those that are common knowledge or relate to the FAQ.
Speaking of, I think that the new FAQ looks pretty nice. Yeah, it can be dry reading, but if you're REALLY a fan, you'll read it. Only those poseur half-ass fans don't read it. (Let's see if peer pressure works? ;)
And when you use this new private email feature, you don't have to be rude. You can say, "Hey, the Kev vs. Derek debate has been discussed to the ground" or "You know, if EVERYONE posts a top 10 list, we'll get 10 jams a day full of top 10 lists OR people bitching about top 10 lists" and then give them the proper options.
Brian Hansen (no relation to the prepubescent bubble gum "performers") wrote:
>I'm all mixed up.
Try turning the electric mixer off. If that fails, unplug it. Or maybe you ought to read the FAQ? ;)
Still waiting for LTE2 to arrive in the mail, Nicole/Kirby
NP: Houston Astros Radio Network: the best thing on the radio! (Insert shameless plug for http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039 here.)
Nicole Stachowicz McWatters ytsekirby@geocities.com http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039 Kirby on irc.dreamt.org:2112
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 20:21:05 -0600 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Bombay Vindaloo blows the FAQ out of Fred Meyer! Message-ID: <003601beb79e$e4d172c0$5c0d84d0@korgx3>
>>But there could've been potatoes in it, too. That we were never informed >>of. :) Maybe Bombay is Indian for chicken or something. > >Who would name the capital of their country "chicken"? :)
Chickens, maybe? Hot rodders who live near cliffs? I know, Gonzo would! Woo!
>Kinda like you were beaten as a child so beat your children too?
Hmm... Bad analogy. I eagerly anticipate beating my children. But this is so off-topic I'm ending it here. How's that for speaking your mind?
>can't send and recieve e-mail at your local library. They can't give >e-mail addresses for everyone who comes in and plans to come back a second
That's why places like Hotmail.com spawned I think. Free web-based email. Yippee! Time to go slaughter a cow. Meat anyone?
Fred Meyer roolz! -- KorgX3 eats some raw meatballs in milk. NP: Strapping Young Lad - Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 22:31:10 -0400 From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Nitrous Oxide & stuff...... Message-ID: <37670C6E.73637461@home.com>
"Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> inhaled deeply, and broke forth with the following: > > Bad memories that song brings. I went on a nasty bad Nitrous Oxide trip at the dentist's office while > > that song kept playing over and over again.
Brian Hansen replied: > There's only one cure for this...As your attorney I > advise you to rent a very fast car with no top. And > you'll need some drugs, and plenty of raw ether. And a > tape recorder for special music. Naturally, I'll have > to go with you, and we're going to have to arm > ourselves; to the teeth.
Hmmmm........ methinks Mr. Hansen is in possible peril of OD'ing on raw, uncut Gilliam.
P.S. Hey Brian, watch out for those fucking bats man!
- Joe DeAngelo jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723 -------------------------------------------- "Our worlds collide, now in disguise You'll feel the Wrath Divine Tears of woe fall from the sky..." - Symphony X, "The Divine Wings of Tragedy" ---------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:30:14 -0400 From: "J." <kube@nh.ultranet.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: What is Progressive? Message-ID: <000901beb7a8$8d68d8c0$238a06d1@tiac.net>
Here is my take on this: Progressive (in my terms) any music that is 1. different than the normal realms of music 2. Can change time signatures unexpectedly and 3. Always changing. If you consider "Ben Folds Five" as prog, I'd agree. I'd also put Dave Mathews Band in there too. They may not totally rock out, but listen closely. I *think* you may see what I see. Obviously open to interpretation. Anxiously awaiting my package from CD Now (LTE 2) Jeremy Kube kube@nh.ultranet.com inflammabl@aol.com "This Job would rule if it weren't for the f*$king customers!" Randall in "Clerks" "Sex is death, death is sex, it says it right here on my crucifix" Voices. DT "I love how financial aid offices always figure that you are rich when they decide how much money that you'll get for school." Me 1999
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4909 **************************
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