YTSEJAM Digest 4923
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4919
by "Christoph" <schroedhelm@gmx.de>
2) a couple flaws in the Korg Trinity's design (NDTC)
by David_Cuthbert@Interflora.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
3) WTF is Bruce?
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
4) Stick
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
5)
by J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
6) Spock's Beard / Needs more butter
by Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
7) Spocks Beard/Myung
by "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
8) Jordan's lead sounds
by "Vaughn, Brandon" <VAUGHNB@CHIPOLA.CC.FL.US>
9) FS: NEARfest tickets
by The Central Scrutinizer <hender@wam.umd.edu>
10) re: Spock's Beard
by Paul Fini <fini@engineering.ucsb.edu>
11) Re: Spock's and some other shizola
by Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
12) Man, I'm starting to hate Spock's Beard now.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
13) Virgos Merlot
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
14) Skolnick
by Compadre32@aol.com
15) lte2 Eventide
by Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@yunque.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 11:15:43 +0200
From: "Christoph" <schroedhelm@gmx.de>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4919
Message-ID: <199906210916.CAA24362@knight.axnet.net>
Hi Jammers!
> From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@mail.geocities.com>
> I was listening to Trial of Tears from Disc 2 of Once in a Livetime. I'=
m
> groovin' along to the "free form" intro, and something around 1:30 strik=
es
> me as not quite right, so I backed it up. It was that section of temple
> blocks that's like "The Trees." It just bugged me really bad. So after
> some listening to a Rush CD and back to OIAL, I realized that the temple
> blocks seemed rushed for the first 3 sets, and then it seemed to space o=
ut
> properly.
Sorry I don=B4t really understand, what you are complyinign about! Are you=
complaining about Mike=B4playing? The fills that he makes during the Intro=
or
what? Or about the timing of his playing?
I think you are talking about the timing, aren=B4t you? Ok, let me say sth=
about
that. As you said it=B4s a free form intro. As there=B4s are drums playing=
some
steady rhythm (there=B4s nobody playing one!) there is no real timimg for =
this
until Mike starts his 16th on the Hi Hat (about 3:30).
Sorry, but I can=B4t see anything bad on his playing! Everyone is just ja=
mming
around this intro and he is doin some really cool fills.
The only thing that arose my attention was something else!
At 1:33 there=B4s a slightly break, as if at this part two different takes=
had been
cut together! Has anybody else realzied this? What is it? You can hear
Petruccis guitar fading away and then suddenly popping in again! It occure=
d
a little bit strange to me! Comments on that?
Greetings,
Christoph
***************************************************
Schr=F6der=B4s World Of Music
http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/gala/6447/
Schaut mal rein und sagt mir Eure Meinung! Danke!
***************************************************
M.THERESAS KALTES BUFFET
Anderer deutscher Rock
- Nahrung f=FCr die geistig Bed=FCrftigen -
http://mtkb.musicpage.de
***************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 06:08:49 -0400
From: David_Cuthbert@Interflora.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
To: "INTERNET:ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: a couple flaws in the Korg Trinity's design (NDTC)
Message-ID: <199906210609_MC2-7A18-10E0@compuserve.com>
I have a friend that has had a Trinity for a couple of years and his
joystick type thing knackered about 14 months after he bought it,
anyone else had this happen, he does do a lot of work with the
joystick doing bends and stuff, but basically it just wore out.
I take it that Derek used two Trinity's cause of the sound changing
delay problem?
David C
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:04:16 EDT
From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: WTF is Bruce?
Message-ID: <19990621110417.48008.qmail@hotmail.com>
I am a HUGE fan of Testament....ive always admired the exceptional playing
ability of former lead guitarist Bruce Skolnick
His name is Alex Skolnick....if you are a huge fan you should know this
(sarcasm:off)
Outlander
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:19:14 EDT
From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Stick
Message-ID: <19990621111914.57103.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hi,Could someone please fill me in on what a Chapman Stick is. Is it a brand
name or is it something different? Thanks.
go to http://stick.com (no WWW) and the link will explain far more than i
can
Its amazing though!
Outlander
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:31:10 EDT
From: J C <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Message-ID: <19990621113111.37066.qmail@hotmail.com>
Chris spouted:
(and yes, I'm being a dick)
you most certainly are being a FUCKIN' dick....but then I knew that already!
If you don't like people using "logic" in an argument against you,
then you should probably just not argue, man.
As far as the arguement I am not sided one way or the other. However, you
come off like a fuckin' prick!
Sad little person
PS Sorry for the expletives---but I have to curse sometimes due to the fact
that certain individuals will not get the message otherwise.
I would use my extensive vocabulary but it would be a waste of time as this
individual would be lost.
BE NICE ASSHOLE! :>
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:05:33 +1000
From: Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
To: ytsejam <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Spock's Beard / Needs more butter
Message-ID: <376D81CD.B31798C3@winshop.com.au>
Amanda said, in reference to Spock's Beard:
> I generally like music that is richly layered and textured, with powerful chords
> that just make me shudder with pleasure
Hmmmm, that could be a good description of SB.
> I've come to the conclusion that I just don't like prog, except for Genesis if
> you consider that prog.
Yeah, I'd consider Genesis prog, as they were one of the founding groups
of the genre, and I've also considered SB to sound quite a bit like
early prog Genesis. Oh well, horses for courses....
And then James Ahab or someone, said in reference to Bruce's post:
>> No, it means that you cant tell the cook how to do it better unless you
>> know how.. Whether you like the taste of the meal is a subjective thing. You
>> are right in claiming that that is your proviledge. What you cannot say for
>> example is "it needs more butter" unless you are experienced in cooking.
> If you *like* more butter...than use more butter.
I think what Bruce was trying to say was that people with inexperience
on a certain subject (music, cooking) can't make quite as validated
calls on it than those are more experienced. The cooking/"needs more
butter" analogy I saw as the same as if someone said in reference to DT,
"oh the keyboards suck, get rid of the keyboards, they sound poofy..." -
a statement that I believe would go against the majority of the
sentiments here on the Jam, am I right? Most of us feel that keys play a
vital role (as do any of the instruments in DT's ensemble) across ALL
of DT's releases (not just the KevMo days). And likewise most of us
would label one who slammed the keys in DT's music in such a way as
somewhat of a clueless schmuck. Right?
While am no maestro/music genius myself, I do feel as if my exposure to
DT (and the subsequent styles of music they have lead me to thereafter,
classical, jazz, etc.) has given me and far more open minded insight to
the noble art of music. And not just more of an acceptance to a vareity
of instrumentation either (i.e. the keyboard example) but variety also
in a songwriting and compositional sense. Some of the music I listen to
now I would have slammed a couple of years ago, being the simple-minded
dipshit I was.
I feel that one who grown up with exposure to a variety of music, has
been trained in musical theory and understands the idiosyncrasies music
in general, blah, blah would have a far better chance in identifying
quality musicianmanship and would therefore be able to offer critical
assesments in a far more valid way than someone who hasn't.
I do agree also with most of the people who replied to Bruce saying that
"if you can't play it, you can't slam it is total BS". Yep, true... but
I don't think that that was exactly the point he was originally trying
to convey (even though he did state that way).
Luke.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:45:17 -0400
From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Spocks Beard/Myung
Message-ID: <390762D98D63D2118C280060081358CC8F5552@hamsxha2.hanscom.af.mil>
Trent espoused regarding Spocks Beard,
> > >And I'm sorry it did. This could be the worst CD I've
> > >ever heard in my entire life.
>
Thank GOD I'm not the only one who thinks this about SB. My old
roomie tried to get me into them (still does, on occasion), and every time I
hear them I just cringe, like when you drag your fingernails down a
chalkboard. I never ever liked old Yes, and this, to me, is simply Yes with
better production. But to each his own. They're pretty good musicians - I
just think their songs suck bilge water.
Then, Ptacek blew my mind and said,
>The complete inability to take a meaningful solo? The guy is an
excellent songwriter, and a good
>bassist in the "behind the band" sense, but the only time he
meaningfully
>takes the center is Metropolis, and only for like... a second.
He's a
>good bassist, but he's sloppy, has probably improved the least out
of all
>the members since I&W and is WAY overrated on the Stick (which he'd
>probably admit since he's rather new to it). I could name 10
bassists
>off the top of my head who I think are leaps and bounds beyond him
(and I
>have in past threads of this nature). No offense to any of you
pedestal
>pushers out there.
Gaa! No offense taken, but I don't quite know how you come to your
conclusions, or at least some of them. Sure, he doesn't take a meaningful
solo unless it's on a B**r bootleg, but then again, I'm of the "Bassists
shouldn't take solos" camp. That there is personal preference. But he's
sloppy? Really? Maybe in a live setting, I can somewhat give you that, but
he's no sloppier than Petrucci or Sherinian on OiaL. Hell, everyone's sloppy
live except the London Philharmonic. :) He *IS* way overrated on the Stick,
but the thing is, he knows it and made that clear in interviews that he's
just getting used to it.
And I can only name two bassists that are leaps and bounds beyond
him: Vic Wooten and Mike Manring. But they're leaps and bounds beyond
everyone.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 09:38:07 -0500
From: "Vaughn, Brandon" <VAUGHNB@CHIPOLA.CC.FL.US>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Jordan's lead sounds
Message-ID: <41303F74D60DD111B56500609778A79C6458C0@chipola.cc.fl.us>
>Simple task for you, then. Play the LitS intro without sampling
>Derek. Play the "attack of the electronic elephant" sound in the
middle
>of ACoS without sampling Derek. Play through any song on Planet X with
>your Kurzweil. :) Give me a break.
You can do it on a Kurzweil. But the thing is, that you can't pull it
up as some preset (which I imagine most of Derek's unique sounds came
from). You would have to do some programming on a Kurzweil and then
save it as a preset, but you can do it. The Kurzweil is geared toward
all around playability. Take a Korg to the Steinway to Heaven project
and see how long it lasts. Try to be a 2 member band (like R&M) with
_one_ keyboard and see how much it holds up.
I think I could program just about any of Derek's stuff on my Kurzweil,
but like I mentioned earlier, I don't really like his sounds all that
much. I would rather be going for a Tony Banks sound or maybe Kevin
Moore.
So far, I've only ever seen Jordan play on one keyboard. I look at
Derek and Kevin . . . stacks of keyboards. Of course, I do like the
look of stacks of keyboards . . . definitely more "prog" looking. But
imagine if you told Kevin or Derek, you can only play on the Roland or
Korg tonight. Nothing else. I'm not sure if they could pull off every
song with just that. Maybe they could. Again, that is not bad. My
favorite keyboard players (Wakeman and Banks) always had multiple keys
set up. I'm just trying to make a point that to go down to just _one_
keyboard means you have a keyboard that can do a LOT.
Does that mean that there is no value in anything other than Kurzweil?
No. That would be like saying to stop making a Roland Jazz amp just
because the Mesa can do such heavier distortion, or because a lot of the
digital amps do decent (not great) jobs recreating it. I have an ARP
Pro that nothing seems to hold a candle to for lead sounds. I could
program something like it in my Kurzweil, but it takes a lot of time and
knowledge to do stuff like that. Much easier to just use it instead.
Similar to the MesaBoogie TriAxis. That is such an incredible piece
that Petrucci can get most of his sounds from. Lots of prog guitarists
have 2-4 different amps on stage to get certain sounds. Petrucci can
use that _one_ gear to get all his sounds. Truly an incredible piece.
But imagine Alex Lifeson playing nothing but out of a TriAxis. Weird.
Again . . . playing preference and style.
You disagreed with me about my comparison of Moore with Jordan. I was
not talking of a clone or anything. They are definitely different. But
I do think that _some_ (not all) of their sounds are similar. There are
some lead sounds of Jordan that I think are very similar to Kevin's
(that sick "violiny" sound you referred to earlier). Now, Jordan's
percussive type lead sound is definitely not like Kevin.
And another thing I think they are similar in is that even though some
of their presets sound similar to a guitar, you can still tell they are
keyboards. One of things I didn't like about Derek's sound was that at
times I couldn't tell if it was Petrucci. There is only one Petrucci,
thank you very much. Please don't compete against him or cover him up
or pretend to be him. And the interplay between Petrucci and the
keyboard went to almost nothing with Derek. Again, another similarity
between Kevin and Jordan.
So my whole point is that every keyboard has something unique about it.
Kurzweil's strengths lie in its piano, strings, and other instruments.
But inside this machine is a powerful analog recreating instrument.
Listen to some of the live albums of Pink Floyd in the past years. They
use mostly Kurzweil now. A lot of the unique things (like you mentioned
about Derek) probably couldn't have been done on other things as easily
as a Kurzweil. But it took programming. Thus, the reason why it is
nice to have Korg and Roland stuff. Great sounds available right away.
But geared for a certain market.
It takes some work. And in our "McDonald's" generation, we would rather
go for instant presets than build our own. Thus the need for such great
instruments from Korg.
My ideal setup would be a K2500X, 2 Mellotrons, Hammond B3 with Leslie,
MiniMoog, Arp Pro, Taurus I bass pedals, Korg Trinity, and some Roland
keyboards. I have nothing against using other keyboards. I value their
strengths, but at the same time I realize that I can do most things
(except for possibly the Mellotron) on a K2500 (ok, call me lazy . . .
who doesn't like a little fast food now and then? Hmmm?!!). Oh, and
then add all of Petrucci's rack in too. Man, I wish I had a $100,000.
To each his own I guess . . .
About Petrucci:
I thought I saw an Eventide on the inside back of LTE2. I'm pretty sure
that was it. Not too many 2 rack-spaced units with big displays and
wheel out there. Of course, he could have gone with a DigiTech :) My
point with Vai . . . yeah, you are right, Vai has always sounded like
Vai. But you listen to Flexible versus post-Eventide, and you can't
tell me you can't hear a difference. For one, the layered lead sounds?
Or the weird etudes.
I think Petrucci has a Whammy pedal too now. I head some weird octave
stuff he was doing on LTE2. It could be the Eventide, but I'm not sure
if it does stuff like that in real time. I'm not sure, though.
The whole point of a harmonizer though is to sound layered. To sound
like more than 1 guitarist. So, sure it will still sound like Petrucci.
But then again, it is going to bring stuff out that we have never heard
from him (like with Vai). So get ready for some change in sound if he
has switched over.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:45:22 -0400
From: The Central Scrutinizer <hender@wam.umd.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: FS: NEARfest tickets
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990621104522.00a3d5f0@pop.wam.umd.edu>
Howdy folks. More ticket hocking from me -- did you expect anything else?
I have one ticket to both days of the NEARfest I need to unload. The
festival is this Saturday and Sunday in Bethlehem, PA, and features an
amazing roster of bands including Spock's Beard and IQ. The cost of these
tickets is $46 (what I paid) plus shipping (whatever method you want). The
NEARfest has been sold out for months, and promises to be nothing short of
incredible.
Please E-mail me ASAP at hender@wam.umd.edu if you are interested in
purchasing the tix.
For more information on the NEARfest, check out the official homepage:
http://www.ghostland.com/nearfest/
Thanks,
Brian
===================================
Name:
W. Brian Henderson, Esq.
Contact:
hender@wam.umd.edu
ROBOT-CENTRAL:
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/
His Faithful Bootleg Page:
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/
===================================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 10:20:03 -0500
From: Paul Fini <fini@engineering.ucsb.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: re: Spock's Beard
Message-ID: <4.1.19990621101342.00943950@ecimail.ucsb.edu>
>I picked up Spock's Beard's 'Day For Night' CD
>yesterday. It came down to a choice between SB and
>Incubus' 'SCIENCE' album. I flipped a coin and
>Spock's Beard won the day.
>
>And I'm sorry it did. This could be the worst CD I've
>ever heard in my entire life. Seriously, I was
>listening to it and all the vocal harmony and stuff
>make it sound like a Christian music CD. Bleh.
>
>To anyone who might have been considering picking this
>CD up, I say pass on it. I may develop a taste for
>this CD later on, but I don't see it happening. The
>cheesy lyrics alone will probably keep me out.
Whoa - I hope you have your asbestos underwear ready, cause it's gonna
be a hot one, with all the flames you'll be bringing down on yourself.
First off, don't even try to compare Incubus and Spock's Beard... I
hope that no one does in the replies sure to ensue. I love both of these
bands and would defend either's honor, but THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT BANDS!
Obviously you had expectations about the 'Beard which weren't fulfilled,
and I would never be one to claim that they're everyone's cup of tea. But
definitely give the album some more time to grow on you before you get
rid of it prematurely.
And do yourself another favor - get the Incubus album as well! It kicks
ass! :)
p.
-.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --..
Paul T. Fini U.C. Santa Barbara
fini@engineering.ucsb.edu Materials Dept.
voice (805)893-8869, fax (805)893-8971 MOCVD group
-.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --.. -.-- -.-- --..
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 08:33:34 -0700
From: Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Spock's and some other shizola
Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990621083048.00695934@postoffice.pacbell.net>
At 01:42 AM 6/21/99 -0700, Christopher Ptacek wrote:
>
>
>Lisa
>> If you haven't totally given up on the Beard yet, you might want to check
>> out The Light... you just might like it better than Day for Night. In fact,
>
> The Light is lighter than DfN. Be forewarned (though I think both
>albums are equally awesome).
Yeah, that's true... but it's a lot less "poppy" (if you wanna call it
that) than DfN or TKOS, which was why I mentioned it... but I guess if you
(Trent or whoever) are looking for something *heavy*, Spock's beard might
not be for you. Check out the mp3s anyway! You never know. :o)
-- Lisa Marie "Jessie" ytsegirl@pacbell.net------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1993 09:34:34 -0600 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Man, I'm starting to hate Spock's Beard now. Message-ID: <004e01b80249$b5a5d1a0$0201010a@chuck.meserver.com>
>harmony. That's not quite the norm. All sarcasm aside, using "Christian >music" in that light A). is a bash at several DT songs, and B). is an >attack on Christians if you're using it as a derogatory remark. So yeah,
So what is the point you're trying to get across, Chris? Spock's isn't good enough for God? There's a guy I work with who keeps trying to force Christian music on me, and I obligingly listen for a few minutes to humor him, but I can understand Trent's statement. I didn't read it as a slag to Christian music (even though I do the same all the time). He explicitly mentioned the >vocals< made it remind him of Christian music. It's the same as any person hearing an accordian in a song and going "That sounds Jewish," or hearing flamenco guitar and saying "That sounds like gypsy music." I dunno how much Christian music Chris has actually heard, but everything this guy at work brings in oozes vocal harmonies left and right (in stereo!). It's all really good, imo, except I'm about the most anti-religious person on earth, and can't stand listening to it for theocratic reasons. Trent simply was comparing SB and Christian music via the harmonies contained within both. If there was any criticism toward Christians as a whole in his initial post, I fail to see where it was. As far as a bash at DT, you are simply broadening the subject in an attempt to gather more people to support your viewpoint, which is completely unrelated to the original discussion and a fallicy in itself.
The biggest problem with this SB argument is that the anti-SB faction is way out-arguing the pro's. I think it's funny. Whereas the anti's are offering legitimate supportive arguments to their cases, the pro's are pretty much all spouting, "You're wrong! You're all so wrong!" "Respect my authoritye!" *whack in knee with nightstick* *garotte with a bass E-string* -- KorgX3 is too objective sometimes. NP: Tarzan - Soundtrack. (great movie, too)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:04:48 -0400 From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Virgos Merlot Message-ID: <376E62A0.C60084F2@wezl.org>
I just had to take a second to completely rant about the band Virgos Merlot...I haven't even been listening to them for a week, and the album gets more play than LTE2 (just cause I'd heard most of LTE2 before it came out...it's badass!!!). These guys just RULE!!! If you're into Creed (I know them, so I'm kinda biased) Big Wreck, Fuel, or any of those kinda bands...heavy with good vocals, but not proggy...you've GOT to check these guys out! They have a few sound samples at their site virgosmerlot.com along with plenty of pics and stuff...which brings me to another point...the look and the music TOTALLY clash...which makes this band even more fun! Check em out!!!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:28:37 EDT From: Compadre32@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Skolnick Message-ID: <5b26b450.249fc235@aol.com>
Shit....im retarded Its Alex Skolnick, i have no idea where the Bruce came from. I need to stay off the green shit this summer.
Thanks for the "polite" corrections
Compadre32
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:31:28 -0400 From: Carlos Alfaro <calfaro@yunque.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: lte2 Eventide Message-ID: <376E68E0.9A303C79@yunque.net>
Yeah thats an eventide ultra harmonizer on the rack in LTE2's booklet...
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4923 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 18:09:23 EST