YTSEJAM Digest 4920
Today's Topics:
1) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4919
by "Mike Patrick" <mvpatrick@home.com>
2) RE: YTSEJAM digest 4919
by "Paul Fanguy" <paul@thediezmantrio.com>
3) HY CD Single (Japanese) for sale
by "Metzger, Mark" <mmetzger@comversens.com>
4) March Of The Idiots
by trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
5) Re: Sullivan song?
by "Theresa I. Stutzman" <astarte@webzone.net>
6) Re: March Of The Idiots
by JamesAhab@aol.com
7) Re: March Of The Idiots
by Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net>
8) Re: Spock's Beard
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
9) Ang:YTSEJAM digest 4919
by tomas.jutenfaldt@arrow.se
10) Re: March Of The Idiots
by trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
11) Re: Spock's Beard
by trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
12) Jordan's lead sound
by "Brandon Vaughn" <bvaughn@snowhill.com>
13) Spock's Beard
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
14) RE: Myung
by "Simon Long Krogh" <finn2@get2net.dk>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:06:50 -0400
From: "Mike Patrick" <mvpatrick@home.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4919
Message-ID: <001101bebb47$abcd8e80$6da20418@CT466024-A.nblvil1.in.home.com>
>I picked up Spock's Beard's 'Day For Night' CD
>yesterday. It came down to a choice between SB and
>Incubus' 'SCIENCE' album. I flipped a coin and
>Spock's Beard won the day.
>
>And I'm sorry it did. This could be the worst CD I've
>ever heard in my entire life. Seriously, I was
>listening to it and all the vocal harmony and stuff
>make it sound like a Christian music CD. Bleh.
So I'm sitting here wondering just how clueless you'd have to be to post
something like this. Why am I wondering this? Because I consider it
sacrilege to slag the Beard?
No, that's not it.
It's probably because anyone who has been on the Jam for longer than three
days should damn well know that there's a whole mess of folks around here
who consider Spock's Beard THE SHIT, and to post something so woefully
lacking in intelligence just makes us sit around scratching our heads,
saying, 'Could Trent really be that big an idiot? Gosh, perhaps I should
ignore whatever he says in perpetuity.'
To quote the master cheesy lyricist, Neal Morse, 'FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
Hugs,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:13:01 -0500
From: "Paul Fanguy" <paul@thediezmantrio.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 4919
Message-ID: <000001bebb50$ea84c4a0$5d65d6d1@Ytsejam.edc.ge.com>
I think he was just in the free form jam mode. Everybody else was just
doing what they felt like, so he probably just decided to throw that in. If
you want to get really specific, there are some other releases that have
slight imperfections such as LTE, in some parts, you can hear Mike's bass
drums stutter just a bit at some fast double bass sections, I think they
leave stuff like that in there to capture the realism. It's also nice to
know that they are actually human sometimes!
Paul
> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:54:31 -0600
> From: Nicole Stachowicz McWatters <ytsekirby@mail.geocities.com>
> To: ytsejam@axnet.net
> Subject: Actual DTC! (ToT from OIAL)
> Message-ID: <l03110701b392be5ce4c7@[209.30.66.162]>
>
>
> Hi jammers,
>
> I actually (for once!) have some for real and for true DTC! :) And this
> might start a nice discussion, so here goes.
>
> I was listening to Trial of Tears from Disc 2 of Once in a Livetime. I'm
> groovin' along to the "free form" intro, and something around 1:30 strikes
> me as not quite right, so I backed it up. It was that section of temple
> blocks that's like "The Trees." It just bugged me really bad. So after
> some listening to a Rush CD and back to OIAL, I realized that the temple
> blocks seemed rushed for the first 3 sets, and then it seemed to space out
> properly.
>
> That made me think of 2 things. First, it bothers me to have something so
> rushed on an actual release. I mean, if this had been the fan club CD, I
> could live with it. But this is something made for public
> consumption. So
> wouldn't they have chosen a different version of this (like from another
> night of the tour)?
>
> Second, Mike's a great musician, and I have all the respect in the world
> for him. So why would he do this? Was it simply messing up (as
> we are all
> apt to do), or was he just going along with the "free form" theme
> that they
> were all playing?
>
> Either way, the CD is released, so there's nothing that can be done about
> it. It just bugged me, so I thought I'd share. Any other assholes, er,
> opinions, on the free form issue? ;) Thoughtful discussion only. Flames
> will politely be ignored. With liberty and justice for all, amen. :)
>
> -Nicole/Kirby
>
> Nicole Stachowicz McWatters
> ytsekirby@geocities.com
> http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/5039
> Kirby on irc.dreamt.org:2112
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:50:17 -0400
From: "Metzger, Mark" <mmetzger@comversens.com>
To: "'(ytsejam)'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: HY CD Single (Japanese) for sale
Message-ID: <C75EB672C5CCD211A88300104B6A9EF05D02D5@wak-mail2.btrd.bostontechnology.com>
I have one copy left for sale (at cost). New, unopened. This has the extra
songs (live) of BMS and AK/TKH. TKH has an extra jazzy section added that
is the tops in my book. Cost was US $12. You pay the shipping.
Cheers,
Mark Metzger
mmetzger@comversens.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:33:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: March Of The Idiots
Message-ID: <19990620203338.5905.rocketmail@web505.yahoomail.com>
--- Mike Patrick <mvpatrick@home.com> wrote:
> So I'm sitting here wondering just how clueless
> you'd have to be to post
> something like this. Why am I wondering this?
> Because I consider it
> sacrilege to slag the Beard?
>
> No, that's not it.
>
> It's probably because anyone who has been on the Jam
> for longer than three
> days should damn well know that there's a whole mess
> of folks around here
> who consider Spock's Beard THE SHIT, and to post
> something so woefully
> lacking in intelligence just makes us sit around
> scratching our heads,
> saying, 'Could Trent really be that big an idiot?
> Gosh, perhaps I should
> ignore whatever he says in perpetuity.'
>
> To quote the master cheesy lyricist, Neal Morse,
> 'FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
>
> Hugs,
>
> Mike
Am I an idiot? Hm, guess so. I could've sworn the
jam was a discussion list. Yeah, what the fuck was I
thinking-- "feel free to discuss thing, but not the
thing I don't agree with." Hm, who's reall the idiot
here anyway?? I mean, can you really attribute
something like "fuck you" to Steve Morse? Doubtful.
Something tell me he didn't come up with it first, tho
I could be wrong.
I'm not supposed to post something simply b/c some
people don't agree with what I have to say? Heh. Oh,
can you hear that? That's the sound of my knees
shaking. No really, it is. I promise. Whatever. Loser.
===
*Trent
-- check out my mp3s --
http://members.xoom.com/cybertrent
AIM- PageRiff
ICQ- #39449102
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 16:02:18 -0500
From: "Theresa I. Stutzman" <astarte@webzone.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Sullivan song?
Message-ID: <376D56DA.470CE478@webzone.net>
WoodyTJ34@aol.com wrote:
> Hey everyone. I just saw "Saving Private Ryan." Great movie. Anyway-my
> question-even though it doesn't relate to DT, I figure someone has to know
> this. There was a song about the five Sullivan boys that are mentioned in
> the movie. It came out about 3 or 4 years. Can anyone tell me what the
> title is and who the artist is please. It was a real cool song. Plus, it's
> driving me crazy trying to sing it in my head. Thanks a bunch
There's a song by a band called Caroline's Spine called
"Sullivan" that is about the five Sullivan brothers.
That's probably the one you're thinking about--it's
from '97 and off a CD called Monsoon.
Hope this helps. :)
-- Theresa http://www.webzone.net/astarteNow Playing: LTE2
If a little dreaming is dangerous, The cure for it is not to dream less but to dream more, to dream all the time. ~Marcel Proust
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:32:08 EDT From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: March Of The Idiots Message-ID: <b372910b.249eb7d8@aol.com>
>< Am I an idiot? Hm, guess so. I could've sworn the jam was a discussion list. Yeah, what the fuck was I thinking-- "feel free to discuss thing, but not the thing I don't agree with." Hm, who's reall the idiot here anyway?? I mean, can you really attribute something like "fuck you" to Steve Morse? Doubtful. Something tell me he didn't come up with it first, tho I could be wrong. I'm not supposed to post something simply b/c some people don't agree with what I have to say? ><
It's *Neal* Morse, lead vocalist, pianist, songwriter, and all-around genius of Spock's Beard, and the reason you were called an idiot is cuz you said "This is the worst CD I've ever had. It sucks. Don't buy it" and gave not one valid reason why it's so bad.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:36:46 -0700 From: Lisa Marie <ytsegirl@pacbell.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: March Of The Idiots Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990620143615.0068ccc4@postoffice.pacbell.net>
At 01:37 PM 6/20/99 -0700, you wrote: > >I mean, can you really attribute >something like "fuck you" to Steve Morse?
It's *Neal* Morse... and Mike was quoting a line from 'The Water', which is on Spock's Beard's first cd, 'The Light'.
If you haven't totally given up on the Beard yet, you might want to check out The Light... you just might like it better than Day for Night. In fact, DfN is absolutely THE LAST cd I'd recommend as a first Beard purchase... but that's just me. Most people love DfN, but I don't think it's anywhere near their best release.
>I'm not supposed to post something simply b/c some >people don't agree with what I have to say?
I think you've got every right to post your opinion, good or bad, about anything. The only part about your post that bothered me a little was when you said: "To anyone who might have been considering picking this CD up, I say pass on it."
Of course that's still your opinion, which is fine, but just because something isn't quite your style, doesn't mean that others might not enjoy it. There are *plenty* of mp3s online <http://www.spocksbeard.net/mp3.htm> for people to check out and make up their own mind as to whether or not to give Spock's Beard a chance.
-- Lisa Marie "Jessie" ytsegirl@pacbell.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:41:35 -0700 From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Spock's Beard Message-ID: <376D600F.263B1782@ucla.edu>
I know the feeling. I listened to some of the clips on Lisa Marie's page after I heard my boyfriend raving about them and always having one of their songs stuck in his head. I was expecting something a little heavier. I love metal, especially goth/doom metal, but I won't dismiss something purely because it is not metal. I mean, I listen to Brit pop, some ambient, and goth. I generally like music that is richly layered and textured, with powerful chords that just make me shudder with pleasure. Listening to SB, I felt like I was listening to Peter, Paul and Mary. Same thing with Mariliion, except I do like "These Chains" and "Out of this World" (if that's the correct title) and a select few songs. I've come to the conclusion that I just don't like prog, except for Genesis if you consider that prog.
~~Amanda
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 21:51:12 +0100 From: tomas.jutenfaldt@arrow.se To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Ang:YTSEJAM digest 4919 Message-ID: <TFSZMUUX@arrow.se>
Hi!
I will be on vacation during week 25 & 26, and will be back in business on=20= the 5th of july=2E
Richard K=E4rrstr=F6m, here in the warehouse, will handle my phonecalls during=20= this time, but this job is new for him, so for more complicated matters,=20= please contact Fazil G=F6ker=2E
Best regards, Tomas Jutenf=E4ldt =20=
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Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:55:56 -0700 (PDT) From: trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: March Of The Idiots Message-ID: <19990620215556.10305.rocketmail@web503.yahoomail.com>
--- JamesAhab@aol.com wrote: > It's *Neal* Morse, lead vocalist, pianist, > songwriter, and all-around genius > of Spock's Beard, and the reason you were called an > idiot is cuz you said > "This is the worst CD I've ever had. It sucks. Don't > buy it" and gave not one > valid reason why it's so bad.
Neal, whatever. As for the "not one valid reason" thing, I think my voicing of the fact that I dislike the kind of vocal harmony that the band were performing is one such "valid reason". If you want more, I have more. I just wanted to keep my original post short and to the point. === *Trent
-- check out my mp3s -- http://members.xoom.com/el_trento
AIM- PageRiff ICQ- #39449102 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 14:59:25 -0700 (PDT) From: trent <cybertrent@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Spock's Beard Message-ID: <19990620215925.10518.rocketmail@web503.yahoomail.com>
--- Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu> wrote: > > I was expecting > something a little > heavier. I generally like music that > is richly layered > and textured, with powerful chords that just make me > shudder with > pleasure. Listening to SB, I felt like I was > listening to Peter, Paul > and Mary. > ~~Amanda
Yeah baby yeah! There we go. I was expecting something a little louder too. It was hard to get past the lack of guitar-presence of any kind, but the PP&M vocals didn't help either. Great observation. === *Trent
-- check out my mp3s -- http://members.xoom.com/el_trento
AIM- PageRiff ICQ- #39449102 _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 17:12:35 -0500 From: "Brandon Vaughn" <bvaughn@snowhill.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Jordan's lead sound Message-ID: <006e01bebb6a$0194a980$13c72fd8@brandon>
>How about this, though... does anyone (Mike?) know if Jordan just doesn't >like old school analog sounds for leads?
I don't think he is against any of it. But most of these keyboard players today don't seem too interested in using "old school" sounds anymore. If they did, number priority would be for Dream Theater to use Mellotrons!!! The lame attempt on FII is pathetic (not their fault, probably Shirley's or Derek's fault). And while we are on "old school" sounds, how about some Moog or ARP sounds. No DT keyboard player (Kevin, Derek, or Jordan) has consistently played any of the traditional "prog" sounds on keyboard . . . no tron, no ARP. Heck, even the organ is given low key priority. Derek's organ sound was just ok (if you have ever played real Hammonds, you know what I mean . . . I did like that distorted organ of his, though); Kevin's organ sound was as good as Roland gets (which isn't saying much). The Kurzweil is capable of much better organ sounds I think (you can control the drawbars on it), but I know for a fact that Jordan isn't a big organ fan (how much organ have you ever heard from him? Just a little bit . . . like 11:20 of When the Water Breaks).
I personally own a Hammond organ and ARP Pro, and those are the "true" prog instruments to me (and some Moog too, which I don't own). And you can't get these type sounds without playing the actual instruments (I know . . . I usually use samples in my Kurzweil for stuff like Mellotrons and such). I don't see any Trons on the FII video, or Moogs in the Live in Tokyo video. While we are at it, why doesn't Myung play some Taurus I bass pedals. Talk about getting that "prog" sound! Anyone want to donate some to me? And where is the CP70?!!
But I don't necessarily think this is bad. Each one of these guys is pressing forward with their own voice. I noticed in LTE2 that Petrucci has an Eventide harmonizer in his rack now. What if on the next album, his whole sound changed around that instrument? (It totally changed Vai.) Well, I guess we will get used to it. I personally still favor the guitar sound off of I&W. I think Awake sounds "better" to some because of the way it was recorded, and the fact the Petrucci's chops were so much improved by then (HIS WORDS, not mine...he definitely had what they called "road chops" by then, though).
>Is he going to use the same lead >sound on the new DT? Jordan has a great control over instruments with >faster decay (piano and bells etc) but his choice in lead sounds just >seems really dead next to Derek.
Well, I for one (maybe the only one) NEVER liked Derek's sounds. I thought they were stale, and down right cheese factory most of the time. I did like the stuff he played, though. But I always wished for more variety from him. It just always sounded like he never switched programs that much to me. "Ok, we love the Van Halen thing on the keyboard, but this is prog after all . . can we have any Wakeman sounds or Banks? How about some classical?" To me, Derek touched more on greatness with Anna Lee (ok, you can all hate me know . . . I am the one you heard about . . . the one DT fan who actually admits to liking this song) or the rendition of YtseJam.
I really like Jordan's lead sounds. They are more like Kevin's type sound. And the classical piano in the mix . . . wow! To me it is like Kevin left the band, went and studied classical piano for 12 hours a day, and came back into the band.
>Even Kevin's DW8000 had a better lead >sound, IMO.
I was watching Live in Tokyo the other day, and Kevin has some great lead sounds, I think. Much better that Derek. To me Jordan is more toward the Kevin sound than Derek.
>You would think that as the DW8000 is available for >$500 and Jordan's >Kurzweils go for <$2000 there would be some kind of competetive sounds on >there. I'm not asking if anyone here is BETTER than Jordan, but does >anyone know if the board he uses can GET a better lead sound?
The Kurzweil machines are incredible instruments. You can get just about any sound out of them that you want. And if you can't, then you can always load up your favorite samples.
Here are some Kurz sounds for you: Hammond organ http://www.sweetwater.com/sounds/sounds-70s/b3allstp.mp3
http://www.sweetwater.com/catalogs/k2/cd-rom/sounds/pocket-b3/SWXTRAB3.MP3
http://www.sweetwater.com/catalogs/k2/cd-rom/sounds/pocket-b3/SWBRITSH.MP3 http://members.aol.com/remartin67/kb3.mp3
Clav http://www.sweetwater.com/sounds/sounds-70s/clav.mp3
"Old" analog type sounds
http://www.sweetwater.com/sounds/CD_AUDIO_stratus-rsi/03-stratus-keyboards.m p3 (this is around 10 megs! download at your own risk)
Here is a low-end Kurzweil doing some Derek type feedback thing: ftp://ftp.kurzweil-europe.de/pub/demo/vpdemo06.mp3
Here is a Steve Vai (Fire Garden Suite) type thing on a low-end Kurzweil: ftp://ftp.kurzweil-europe.de/pub/demo/vpdemo02.mpt
I'll stop at that since most aren't probably interested in this. Let me know if you are interested in more. I could probably record some lead sounds in wav format.
By the way, where can you get a DW8000 for $500 at? I'd be interested in adding one of those to my collection.
I can understand frustrations about sounds. I'm a guitar player foremost. But I have never really liked 7 string guitars. I was really disappointed when Petrucci got one. It took me a while to get into the "heavier" Dream Theater, but I did.
But you'll probably learn to love Jordan (and his sounds). I felt that I would never like FII because of Derek's lead sounds. I used to skip past songs that featured him heavily. But I eventually grew to like it.
Like you said, it is a matter of taste more than anything else. I'm sure, I'm probably alone in my opinions anyway . . .
The MadTabber
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 18:22:36 -0400 From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Spock's Beard Message-ID: <376D69AC.82509656@home.com>
Trent said: > I picked up Spock's Beard's 'Day For Night' CD > yesterday. It came down to a choice between SB and > Incubus' 'SCIENCE' album. I flipped a coin and > Spock's Beard won the day. > > And I'm sorry it did. This could be the worst CD I've > ever heard in my entire life. Seriously, I was > listening to it and all the vocal harmony and stuff > make it sound like a Christian music CD. Bleh. > > To anyone who might have been considering picking this > CD up, I say pass on it.
Yikes! You're certainly entitled to your opinion...... but I'm gonna have to disagree here. I like heavy metal stuff ALOT too (hell, I'm listening to Testament-"Demonic" right now, can't get a whole lot heavier than that) but just because SB isn't metal doesn't mean they suck. IMO they're one of the best bands (of any genre) around right now. And I must say that their vocal melodies/harmonies are superb. --
- Joe DeAngelo jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723 -------------------------------------------- "Our worlds collide, now in disguise You'll feel the Wrath Divine Tears of woe fall from the sky..." - Symphony X, "The Divine Wings of Tragedy" ---------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:27:46 +0100 From: "Simon Long Krogh" <finn2@get2net.dk> To: "The Ytsejam Mailinglist" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: RE: Myung Message-ID: <000201be2c71$43085a20$ded652c3@flskesteg>
Shams had no other option than to ask:
>How come John Myung is mentioned in the jam so little. I love the way he plays the bass in >all the songs. I think with the spotlight so much on Mike, JP and the keyboard player he is >like a ghost. though I am a guitar player myself but I love the bass. Is it that he is not >innovative enough (with the tunes) or what? It's sad but I loved what he did on Trial of >Tears and Hells Kitchen. >One question tho, with his 6 string, does he have a low B and a High C or just EADGBE like >MP?
-Shams
Well, first of all: JM just isn't a very conspicuous personality. Hence that he's only known to have said anything once on LiT. But as a bassplayer I (and hopefully everyone else on this list) find him absolutely arse-kickingly amazing. Therefore all that we can say about him is the above...which tends to get a little boring after a while (not him, but saying/hearing the same thing over and over again). But please, if you have any interesting comments on JM just go ahead! IMO JM is actually the greatest musician in DT...not that the other guys are bad or anything...the other guys are excellent but JM is just a nudge better. Let's have some comments on this one to keep Shams happy! BTW: does Mike Portnoy have EADGBE???
Take care now, bye-bye then
Simon Long Krogh
NP: Guns n' Roses - Welcome to the Jungle (whoopiiiii...let's go back to the 80's)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4920 **************************
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