YTSEJAM Digest 4948
Today's Topics:
1) RE: Classic prog bands (Pink Floyd)
by David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
2) Dominic Miller
by "Rainer" <rpandean@mail.usyd.edu.au>
3) Re: MP3s rules! / King Crimson
by "Miguel Farah F." <miguel@antonia.webhost.cl>
4) When the Roger Waters breaks.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
5) RE: When the Roger Waters breaks.
by David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
6) KC
by Steve Chew <schew@tislabs.com>
7) LTE's lineup -- Jens and Mike, chime in!
by "Phil Carter" <phil@usefulware.com>
8) Hair
by Compadre32@aol.com
9) Re: parting wisdom
by "Sasha" <sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr>
10) Dail's / POO is a poo-poo
by Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au>
11) A.D./ lookin 4 music
by Toneadd9@aol.com
12) Re: Dail's / POO is a poo-poo
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
13) Boss ME30
by "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
14) Re: When the Roger Waters breaks.
by "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com>
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Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 13:48:35 -0700
From: David Dixon <David@iisweb.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: RE: Classic prog bands (Pink Floyd)
Message-ID: <3093FD59DB69D11193AA00A0C9605649016AE724@messaging>
I disagree. I would say "The Wall" would be a better choice, not because it
is their best, but probably contains the most recognizable songs
("Comfortably Numb", "Another Brick in the Wall" (mostly Part 2), "Hey You",
etc.). "PULSE" has these, but without Roger Waters, who sang, and wrote a
good portion of the music (and nearly all the lyrics). "PULSE" was my first
PF disc (so I guess that won't lead you astray either), and now I own nearly
their entire catalog (which is huge, might I add). "The Wall" is a
masterpiece, and is still among my faves ("Wish You Were Here" is BY FAR my
number one, however)...
<<<
Also, I think a good Pink Floyd album for a PF newbie might be PULSE,
since it contains lots of their "classic" tunes.
>>>
David Dixon, MCP
Consultant
E-Commerce & Internet Technology Solutions
Integrated Information Systems, Inc.
david@iisweb.com
ytsedave@asu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 07:18:33 +1000
From: "Rainer" <rpandean@mail.usyd.edu.au>
To: <ytsejam@ax.com>
Subject: Dominic Miller
Message-ID: <000701bec1ab$c8176f60$470f000a@rainerpa>
Dominic Miller plays guitar for Sting. He's played on the last couple of
albums. His specialty is nylon string flamenco and classical guitar. Hope
this helps.
Rainer
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:15:52 -0400 (CLT)
From: "Miguel Farah F." <miguel@antonia.webhost.cl>
To: ytsejam@ax.com
Subject: Re: MP3s rules! / King Crimson
Message-ID: <199906282115.RAA10368@antonia.webhost.cl>
>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:34:52 +0200
>From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk>
>To: ytsejam@ax.com
>Subject: MP3s rules! / King Crimson
>Message-ID: <37776BEC.AF62A7F7@mol.com.mk>
>
>[...]
>
>I had kinda fight with a friend on the King Cromson issue! :)
>We both don't know much of their music, we heard 1, 2 albums and that's
>all! BUT, my concept about King Crimson is very different that his! ....
>The topic was :
>
> WHAT IS KING CRIMSON TRADEMARK SOUND, MUSIC???
Now, that's a TERRIBLY hard question, since KC has changed so much over
the years. There's AT LEAST three different incarnations of the band,
the ITOTCK era, the Beat era, and the THRAK era.
>From what I know, and from what I could read on the jam sicne I'm on it,
>.. it seems to me that King Crimson trademark music and the thing for
>which they're famous in the prog world are albums liek Discipline! I
Get Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair - they're the other albums in the
Beat era.
>have only this KC album and I LOVE IT! He hates it! :) I bought him
>Thrak for birthday (I just heard it a little in the store, I don't know
>the album otherwise) and he hated it too! Now Thrak is really weird
>stuff but has some few very cool prog songs!
Thrak is from the "double trio incarnation, the current one - very
powerful stuff indeed.
>He's deadly sure that REAL King Crimson are those at the beginning, with
>Keith Emerson on keys 'n stuff, the 1-st album "In the court of KC" etc
Nopers... Emerson NEVER was part of any King Crimson. Lake, BTW, was
only in the first album.
>.. He says King Crimson trademark sound are keyborads, Greg Lake,
>saxophones and I say that tademark KC are Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew
>weird guitars, Levin etc ... EXACTLY music like Discipline! Discipline
>is really some new music, weird, innovative.
>But c'mon, Lake left after the 1-st album and ... KC and saxophone or
>keyborads????
>I heard that album only twice, I don't recall at all, but what I
>remember is that the only song with prog elements is 21st Century
>Schizoid Man! :( Not that others are bad songs, but they aren't so prog
>IMHO. They're nice tunes in the manner of Camel.
?!?! Camel?! KC is LOUDER than Camel, mind you.
>Also whenever I read KC praisings on the jam Discipline was included so
>..
>
>So, who's right? :)
Besides the Emerson mistake, BOTH of you are right.
>Also, if I like Discipline and if I like the tracks VROOM, Dinosaur,
>People and Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream from Thrak - which albums I should
>get first?
In my Inexpert Opinion: Lark's Tongues in Aspic, Red, VROOOM.
Also, get Sleepless - the Concise King Crimson (a compilation made by
Fripp himself) and Cirkus (a live compilation, also by Fripp himself).
-- MIGUEL FARAH // miguel@webhost.cl #include <disclaimer.h> // http://www.webhost.cl/~miguel <*> "Trust me - I know what I'm doing." - Sledge Hammer------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1993 15:21:47 -0600 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: When the Roger Waters breaks. Message-ID: <000401b807fa$53276dc0$0201010a@chuck.meserver.com>
>their entire catalog (which is huge, might I add). "The Wall" is a >masterpiece, and is still among my faves ("Wish You Were Here" is BY FAR my >number one, however)...
Call me stupid (alright, I hear it from here!), but I like Momentary Lapse of Reason above all. Two words: "Terminal Frost." I dunno, but IMO, that is one of the greatest rock instrumentals of all time. Although, I really dig pretty much all of PF's stuff, I find that album horribly addictive, even though I know it rubs alot of the Waters-era fans the wrong way. heheh. That sax solo in TF always makes my pants get tighter.
Of the classic PF, though, I've this tendency to harp about Animals... -- KorgX3 NP: Glass Tiger - Diamond Sun
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 14:37:09 -0700 From: David Dixon <David@iisweb.com> To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: RE: When the Roger Waters breaks. Message-ID: <3093FD59DB69D11193AA00A0C9605649016AE727@messaging>
My favorite live versions of many classic PF tunes are on "Delicate Sound of Thunder". I am a Waters-era PF fan, but I think David Gilmour is by far a better musician (and vocalist - face it, Roger really couldn't sing very well), and he adds a creative touch that Roger couldn't match. "The Division Bell" rocks, too.... :)
<<< Call me stupid (alright, I hear it from here!), but I like Momentary Lapse of Reason above all. Two words: "Terminal Frost." I dunno, but IMO, that is one of the greatest rock instrumentals of all time. Although, I really dig pretty much all of PF's stuff, I find that album horribly addictive, even though I know it rubs alot of the Waters-era fans the wrong way. heheh. That sax solo in TF always makes my pants get tighter. >>>
David Dixon, MCP Consultant E-Commerce & Internet Technology Solutions Integrated Information Systems, Inc. david@iisweb.com ytsedave@asu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:54:40 -0400 (EDT) From: Steve Chew <schew@tislabs.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: KC Message-ID: <199906282154.RAA08233@clipper.gw.tislabs.com>
> >I had kinda fight with a friend on the King Cromson issue! :) >We both don't know much of their music, we heard 1, 2 albums and that's >all! BUT, my concept about King Crimson is very different that his! .... >The topic was : > > WHAT IS KING CRIMSON TRADEMARK SOUND, MUSIC??? >
They have no one sound or style. They have 4 distinct phases, and even the albums in those phases can be pretty different. So, you're both right. :)
>He's deadly sure that REAL King Crimson are those at the beginning, with >Keith Emerson on keys 'n stuff, the 1-st album "In the court of KC" etc > Emerson wasn't ever part of the band, but keyboards (and mellotron) were certainly part of their music.
>.. He says King Crimson trademark sound are keyborads, Greg Lake, >saxophones and I say that tademark KC are Robert Fripp and Adrian Belew >weird guitars, Levin etc ... EXACTLY music like Discipline! Discipline >is really some new music, weird, innovative. > I'd call their earlier albums "weird" and "innovative" too. :-) Their earliest phase is very experimental IMHO.
>I heard that album only twice, I don't recall at all, but what I >remember is that the only song with prog elements is 21st Century >Schizoid Man! :( Not that others are bad songs, but they aren't so prog >IMHO. They're nice tunes in the manner of Camel. > Granted, many of the earlier tunes aren't as frantic as Indiscipline, but I wouldn't compare them to Camel either. They're much more experimental. Try Red, Larks Tongue or Starless. You may find you like them after more listens.
> >Also, if I like Discipline and if I like the tracks VROOM, Dinosaur, >People and Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream from Thrak - which albums I should >get first? > It sounds like you enjoy the newer phases of KC more so I'd recommend anything since 1980, including Beat and Three of a Perfect Pair (which are from the Discipline phase) and Vroom which has some early mixes of Thrak and one new song. "Absent Lovers" is also an excellent live set that you may like.
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:02:49 -0400 From: "Phil Carter" <phil@usefulware.com> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: LTE's lineup -- Jens and Mike, chime in! Message-ID: <4.1.19990628175647.00a13140@pop.usefulware.com>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids....
Carlos wrote: >> > Does anybody know if LTE is going to record again? Two records is far >> > too little for me. I love listening to jamming, pure and simple.
and Andrew C. replied: >This is what Mike himself said on the matter: Since there is now three >quarters of LTE acting as three fifths of Dream Theater, he didn't see >anything happening with an LTE III. I think that would make sense.
Last year at a drum clinic I asked Mike if there might be another LTE disc with Jens Johansson and Billy Sheehan (both of whom had expressed interest before the first one). He said that LTE WAS Jordan, John, Tony and him at that time and that any more LTE discs would be with that lineup. So, yeah, I suppose any more "LTE" discs won't be appearing.
But, Mike and Jens (I know both of you skim the jams), I would just about KILL for a Johansson/Sheehan/Portnoy/Petrucci project. That would kick all kinds of ass. Call it "Plasma Spike Experiment" or something. :)
C'mon, whaddya say, guys? :)
cheers, Phil
================================================ Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com -- Usefulware Production Dept. Official Glass Hammer website: http://www.glasshammer.com/ "Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life." -- Berthold Auerbach
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 18:03:40 EDT From: Compadre32@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Hair Message-ID: <4253e5eb.24a94b3c@aol.com>
Mats Rydstrom Wrote:
<<Hair, hair, hair! Why is everyone so focused on hairdos?>>
The images are just as inportant as the words.... Thats why DT's Second album was not merely called "Words"
(This is yet another drug induced post plagued by sarcasm) (Laughing is advisable)
-Compadre32
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 00:24:43 +0200 From: "Sasha" <sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr> To: "Ytsejam Mailing List" <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: parting wisdom Message-ID: <000b01bec1b5$2b522e40$35e81dc3@sasa>
>Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:01:40 -0400 >From: "Frank Benenati" <fmb@frontierlogic.com> >To: <ytsejam@ax.com> >Subject: parting wisdom >Message-ID: <002f01bec1a1$098418a0$1b01010a@omnioffices.com>
>Syrinx is a cocklicking bitch!
>l8r!!!!
>-mojoman
Didn`t we had enough of this crap in alt.music.dream-theater?!? I think it`s time to stop.
anyhow... Korg, thanx for the info on Miller guy. I like his playing alot... that`s why I asked about him. :-). Didn`t know he had a site on the Net though... gonna check it out.
NP: Genesis [Calling All Stations] - Congo
"Lifting shadows off a dream Once broken She can turn a drop of water Into an ocean..."
John Myung of Dream Theater ["Lifting Shadows Off A Dream"]
sasa.cabaravdic@pu.tel.hr ICQ UIN - 6098813
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 07:01:37 +1000 From: Luke Bateup <slslb@winshop.com.au> To: ytsejam <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Dail's / POO is a poo-poo Message-ID: <37769131.8CC29790@winshop.com.au>
> Actually, POO, when I first heard it, I thought it was just terrible, the > overplaying on it is ridiculous by the drummer...
Understandable, but I don't agree. It's true for the most part that the drummer is more concerned with blowing the listener away with his chops rather than complementing the musical arrangements, but from a self indlugent drummer's perspective, it's bliss. I was mesmerised right from the day I got the POO demo tapes they were sending out back in late '96 at Alex Arellano's technical ability behind the kit. And indeed, on their debut release, Eyes Of The Oracle, there's a part in Test Of Wills that goes from about 5:15 to 9:xx minutes something, that has some blisteringly huge chops, this guy makes the "Portnoy third-arm" theory blush. He's an fucken octopus I tells ya!
> but, once you get past the caffeine overloaded drummer, the songs themselves > aren't so bad.
Yep. Agreed there. While very influenced, these guy's results are quite unique.
> When I first heard the Dali's material, back when it was Chaos Theory, about > 2 1/2 years ago, it was great stuff... but I mean, 2-4 years since this stuff > was written it was finally released!! No thanks to Magna Carta of course.
Aye, when I first heard the MP3 of the Living In Fear demo from Moshies website, I was blown away. I honestly believed that they were the "second coming" and told many of my friends that I'd found the "next Dream Theater". I still to this day think that that demo of LiF has the best intro ever. Matt Guilory's keys are wicked. Yet after picking up MfF (which CDNow *DID* send and and I had it arrive within 10 days - and I live in Australia!) I was rather dissapointed as I had also expected more from them. LiF, in it's final CD release lost alot of the atmosphere of the demo for some reason - probably due to the clear, yet often thin Magna Carta production.
> The new stuff is much more edgy... Will be interesting to hear it when > it's completed.
Can't wait to hear it :)
Luke.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 19:29:03 EDT From: Toneadd9@aol.com To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: A.D./ lookin 4 music Message-ID: <ab29791.24a95f3f@aol.com>
In a message dated 6/28/99 3:52:36 PM !!!First Boot!!!, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
<< > From: Isaac Trumbo > i KNOW i'm gonna get flammed for this from some avid skolnick fan > but you don't need to pick up the album.. it's pretty lame > actually.. the album lacks any and all continuity.. Attention > Deficit was a blatent attempt to get as far away from structure > as possible and as a result it sounds shit.. > but that's just my opinion. Wow wow wow! Now that was low kick! :) Maybe the "just my opinion" line tries to explain not to listen you but after the bash I wonder if anyone will dare to buy the stuff! :) > but you don't need to pick up the album.. Whatever happened to democracy and brainwashing is wrong? :) I was never a metal nor Testament fan, and I read somewhere that Alex got addicted to jazz, and he like sold all his equipment and started learning/listening/playing jazz. Also about Attnetion Deficit he says that he was trying always NOT to play as he played in Testament, he was consciously trying to move away from that state of mind and play in jazz style. IMHO, he did a great job on that! Obviously this guy decided to go the jazz line and left the metal one. AD is everything which jazz stands for. Nearest I can describe it is electric distorted version of Black Light Syndrome and similar to the Michael Shrieve (jazz rock drummer) jazz rock groove! >>
i wish one of you guys was around before i bought it. i like heavy, i love experimental sounding. but without the flowing , "connected " sounding parts, i must say this is hard for ME personally to get into. as always any recommendations / reviews is always appreciated by me. but please use theoretical references when possible to describe the music or players. ( just my way of helping to decide to buy or not) if it sounds written out i generally like it more, versus improvisational sounding. maybe because i cannot improvise well, it is hard to relate. thanx guys. t.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:54:07 -0700 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Re: Dail's / POO is a poo-poo Message-ID: <199906282354.QAA23980@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Luke Bateup thus begged: > >> Actually, POO, when I first heard it, I thought it was just terrible, the >> overplaying on it is ridiculous by the drummer... > >Understandable, but I don't agree. It's true for the most part that the >drummer is more concerned with blowing the listener away with his chops >rather than complementing the musical arrangements, but from a self >indlugent drummer's perspective, it's bliss. I was mesmerised right from
Well, I think there's a way to do it tastefully, and one example would be Carter Beauford from Dave Matthews... he really plays chops but does it in a way that's not overbearing...
> >Aye, when I first heard the MP3 of the Living In Fear demo from Moshies >website, I was blown away. I honestly believed that they were the >"second coming" and told many of my friends that I'd found the "next >Dream Theater". I still to this day think that that demo of LiF has the >best intro ever. Matt Guilory's keys are wicked. Yet after picking up >MfF (which CDNow *DID* send and and I had it arrive within 10 days - and >I live in Australia!) I was rather dissapointed as I had also expected >more from them. LiF, in it's final CD release lost alot of the >atmosphere of the demo for some reason - probably due to the clear, yet >often thin Magna Carta production.
Yeah... I'll have to say that too, the demo for LiF is incredible, the raw power of it is sort of lost on the production on the CD. The guitars seem to be mushed into the mix... I think if they had it done at a better mastering house it would've worked out better than just routine post production at Prairie Sound...
-The Doc
-- *#&*@#@*(#@#*@(#!@*#(!@#(&!#(@!*#@((#@$(#@(($@#($(#@$@#($@#(*$@(*$*(#(#(##(#(# computersarefasterthanhumans - devastatetoinnovate - hyperspacialparallelcomp\ drkhoe@gmsnet.com = http://progmetal.gmsnet.com = internetcyberwetwaregamedev+ s*o#o$n@@c*o!m^e)s@@t>h<e@@|d~i+g-i%t%a.l@@<M><E><S><S><I><A><H> gaMECoReTeKN0
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 10:20:57 +1000 From: "mikel@alphalink.com.au" <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@ax.com Subject: Boss ME30 Message-ID: <37781168.E97554C8@alphalink.com.au>
> Please, I need help... > > I have a Boss ME-30 multi effect. Now, I just can't get any good sounds > out of it. Well, actually, they sound good, but I don't believe that > it's all that this machine can offer me. > > -- > Henrik Hansson
Hi, i got this six months or so ago and have been pretty pleased with it. These things won't do any thing fantastic but definately for the price I havent seen much better. Anyway it did take me a little while to get the most out of it. There is a site on the web, I don't know if its the one you went to and I can't remember the address, but its there. People post the details for patches
that they've made. That can be a good start. A few tips- * Turn the guitar amp simulator on and leave it on, it'll improve the sound a lot. * Forget about the preset patches, apart from some of the really basic clean sounds they're pretty much useless. * Keep the distortion levels lower than you might think. I tend to go for either the blues or the metal distortion. * Don't worry about reverb. * The whammy is crap. The wah is alright sounding but very limited. This
would be the first thing I would get- a decent wha pedal. The pitch shifter is not too good- there is a delay on the sound, although this can be good to get a twelve string effect. * The delay is great, try it on pan if you have two speakers. The clean tones can be quite good too. * Some people have recommended using the manual system but I don't like it.
Apart from that keep experimenting. Ive found I've got about four or five decent patches now that give a good range for blues, metal and clean sounds, which I use all the time.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:28:11 -0400 From: "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com> To: <ytsejam@ax.com> Subject: Re: When the Roger Waters breaks. Message-ID: <009a01bec1d7$088adc00$d2c21c18@kez.mgfairfax.rr.com>
Korg confessed:
>though, I've this tendency to harp about Animals...
As we have LONG suspected.......
Oh, I'm sorry, he was talking about music, right?
Yeah, right.
/me wonders which of the "Animals" is Korg's favorite. :)
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4948 **************************
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