YTSEJAM Digest 4731
Today's Topics:
1) Shadow Gallery/Metallica
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
2) Re:Peter Gabriel
by Ibanez506@aol.com
3) selloutica
by Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
4) At Lines in the Sand...
by Nick Bogovich <bogie@MIT.EDU>
5) Re: selloutica
by Vincent LuPone <vgl@syspac.com>
6) Melody's birthday
by "Larry" <ldo@uswest.net>
7) Ytsejam NCAA tournament pool
by Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4730
by Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4730
by "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
10) Sign of doom: Calvin agrees with Amanda
by Calvin6S@aol.com
11) When Dream And Today Unite on E-Bay
by John DiBella <rsch1@idt.net>
12) Yabba Dabba Doo
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
13) Re: prog vs. reg
by psull@ici.net
14) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4729
by Daniel Beziz <danjohn@club-internet.fr>
15) Re: progressive vs metallica
by "Martin" <mpb@netlab.sk>
16) Master the elusive art of scent.
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
17) Request for Bogie or anybody
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
18) Re: selling out
by mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:11:50 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Shadow Gallery/Metallica
Message-ID: <36E5FF16.730FDDDE@home.com>
AL asked:
> Would someone PLEASE hook me up with some Shadow Gallery Mp3 links? :)
Damn AL! If I would've realized you were Shadow Gallery-deprived, I
would've hooked you up with MP3's a long time ago man! I don't know any
links, but if you haven't found anything, let me know and I'll rip some
MP3's and upload them to an FTP for ya.
---Simon John Dodd wrote: > That's it, I can't take any more whining about how Metallica have > sold out;
ACK. I do believe this is an outlawed topic. Oh boy, I hope I don't burn in Ytse-hell for making a BRIEF, non-inflammatory (sorta) comment about it though.
Simon, I agree somewhat with what you're saying about them not being a sellout. However, that doesn't necessarily mean Load/ReLoad are good. IMO, they both blow. The combination of the music, their current MTV-darling image, and their song topics really kill it for me. Especially the song topics - I mean if they were to write a REALLY HEAVY, BALLSY song about a double cheeseburger with extra pickles and minus the ketchup...... it might still be HEAVY, but it's just a heavy song about a double cheeseburger with extra pickes and minus the ketchup..... it sure as fuck isn't going to be "One" or "Welcome Home (Sanitarium)", or "For Whom the Bell Tolls". They've lost their edge, IMO.
P.S. I disagree with all the "old-school" Metalli-fans who say that they got shitty with The Black Album. It was more mainstream than their earlier material, but it still kicked major ass.
- Joe D. aka Magellan jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I swear on tomorrow- If you take this chance- Our lives are this moment The music, the dance- And here in this labyrinth- Of lost mysteries I close my eyes on this night- And you're all that I see - Savatage, from "Not What You See" -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:34:01 EST From: Ibanez506@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re:Peter Gabriel Message-ID: <ee519b69.36e60449@aol.com>
In a message dated 3/9/99 11:13:48 PM Central Standard Time, ytsejam@ax.com writes:
<< just a quick question for all of you. Do any of you know when Peter Gabriel's new album 'UP' is going to be released? >> No date yet. Hopefully it will be out before 2000. All things Gabriel can be found at http://realworld.on.net Enjoy, Juli
"If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten". - George Carlin
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:53:22 -0500 From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: selloutica Message-ID: <36E608D2.29614A06@bigfoot.com>
>IMO, its the people that desert the bands when >they become popular that are the true >sellouts. Just my piece.
Being popular is no problem for loyal fans. Sucking, that's a problem for loyal fans. Haw-haw!
Tori 'n' Kate: Well, tori is on record(somewhere) saying that kate's a big influence. I actually got into Kate first, and then tori later on.
Does anyone know if Kate's got anything going on?
Mmmmmm. Tori 'n' Kate....... -- Joshua Rasiel jrasi@bigfoot.com www.j51.com/~mrasiel Churchill's description of history: "It's just one damn thing after another."
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:22:19 -0500 From: Nick Bogovich <bogie@MIT.EDU> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: At Lines in the Sand... Message-ID: <4.1.19990310011809.00a6ce60@po7.mit.edu>
Hey everyone,
I thought I'd drop you all a line and tell you what's at Lines in the Sand currently:
]From The Vaults (full concerts in MP3 format): Live at Birch Hill Nite Club, Old Bridge, NJ, 6/9/95 Live at the Casino Ballroom, Hampton Beach, NH, 8/4/98 LTE Live at the TLA, Philadelphia, PA -- 1/22/99 LTE Live at NAMM, Los Angeles, CA -- 1/30/99
There are also some other rare Dream Theater MP3s up there like the Afterlife and Status Seeker remixes (thanks Syrinx!) which are much more enjoyable to listen to than the WDADU versions!
Anyways, make sure to stop by!
Take care, Bogie
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:13:03 -0700 From: Vincent LuPone <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: selloutica Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990310001302.006b1b70@postoffice.syspac.com>
fuckyouica. Enuff!! everyone has different opinions, leave it at that!! If you like 'em, fine. If you don't fine, no one else gives a shit!
:)
~Vinnie
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:41:05 -0700 From: "Larry" <ldo@uswest.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Melody's birthday Message-ID: <005a01be6ac9$5b0cf860$04000005@lxodneahome>
AyameYuki wrote: >hey jammers.... > >congrats to MP for his first son! hope you guys have a great life with the >addition...but my question is...how old is your first child now ?
I'm pretty sure Melody was born on May 2, 1997, making her 1 year, 10 months, and 8 days old.
Yer welcome,
Larry
p.s. Congratulations to Mike & Marlene!!! Gonna have any more?
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:02:40 -0600 From: Big Swifty <swifty@auburn.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Ytsejam NCAA tournament pool Message-ID: <36E6271F.63CF@auburn.net>
Hello, all! I've created a group for Ytsejammers in the ESPN NCAA tournament prediction contest. It's free to play, but you have to sign up before 11:30 Thursday morning. If you'd like to play, follow this link to http://games.espn.go.com/cgi/tcmen/request.dll?FRONTPAGE
(I hope that works properly).
The name of the group is Ytsejammers and the password to join is "jordanrudess"
I won't post this again, but hopefully a few of you will sign up anyway.
Take care, Mark Peters swifty@auburn.net
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 02:20:54 -0600 From: Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4730 Message-ID: <4.1.19990310015618.00926ab0@mail.msy.bellsouth.net>
well, basically all you're doing when you're saying they "changed" instead of "progressed" is just strictly an matter of opinion and strays into semantics. You can sit there and try to categorize all day, but you will always find exceptions to the categories...Let's just say Prog is a certain "sound" that we all recognize, and leave it at that...:) I mean, what is technically progressive??? Is it only when you have a couple of guitarists playing arpeggios(sp?) at a million miles a second, or where you have keyboardists going at the speed of light??(not that there's anything wrong with these two) ..I certainly don't think so...Then where would bands like Phish or Widespread Panic be??? I feel in a way that both of these bands are progressive, yet they're certainly not technical wonders...You look at some of Alan Parson's work, certainly wouldn't fit under that limited umbrella that many people put over the Prog genre, and not all of his stuff are of the concept album type either. Yet I find it some of the most "Progressive" music I've heard. Some people probably didn't like FII as much because of this, because DT actually JAMMED more and got more into a groove instead of being flashy and too technical...that's something I've heard more and more as I listen and compare their albums, that pre-FII DT just seems more arranged and not quite as free as FII itself...Now, these are just my observations...take them for what they're worth, but I feel that they DID indeed progress by breaking out of the realm of trying to be a band full of Yngwie's and just play some damn good music...I agree with you though(can't tell that from the email though...heh), that changing doesn't mean progress, look at Queensryche, who plummeted with HitNF, but sometimes changing CAN be progress, a la DT in FII....
NP:Pink Floyd "The Division Bell"
>shut up man.. there are two veins of prog..=20 >one being concept type albums (A Pleasant Shade of Gray, The Wake of=20 >Magellan, Etc)=20 >the other being technically progressive (Awake, Ink Complete, The Divine=20 >Wings of Tragedy) >many times the both veins overlap..=20 >prog is about music that's structured.. getting away from standard=20 >verse/chorus 3 chord song... expanding musically.. i&w does that..=20 >FII regressed.. the band took there music in a direction that=92s=20 >conducive to masses..=20 >don't get me wrong.. there's are some definite progressive tunes on FII=20 >(lines in the sand, peruvian skies, trial of tears) and i like the album=20 >a lot.. it just took a turn away from prog. >they didn't "PROGRESS" with the album.. they "CHANGED".. big=20 >difference.. not necessarily a bad thing, but to argue that prog means a=20 >band changes they way they sound is stupid >inferno >NP: Uli Roth - Earthquake >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 03:02:13 -0600 From: "Brian Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4730 Message-ID: <iss.5377.36e63513.3344.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:33:03 -0800 (PST) from Kevin Carmouche <khc@bellsouth.net>:
"Some people probably didn't like FII as much because of this, because DT actually JAMMED more and got more into a groove instead of being flashy and too technical...that's something I've heard more and more as I listen and compare their albums, that pre-FII DT just seems more arranged and not quite as free as FII itself...Now, these are just my observations...take them for what they're worth, but I feel that they DID indeed progress by breaking out of the realm of trying to be a band full of Yngwie's and just play some damn good music...I agree with you though(can't tell that from the email though...heh), that changing doesn't mean progress, look at Queensryche, who plummeted with HitNF, but sometimes changing CAN be progress, a la DT in FII...."
Not to be too blunt, but this is bullshit.
Let me state first of all that labelling music is utterly pointless, and arguing over the labels is even worse. Just listen to what you like and fuck what someone wants to call it.
Now, that said. I don't care what anyone thinks is prog and what isn't, but I wanted to point out that your definition of "prog" is based entirely on your subjective opinion of a particular band's work. FII was a new direction and you liked it; so you call it progressive. HitNF was a new direction and you didn't like it; so it's merely "change." That kind of definition doesn't do anyone any good (not that musical definitions do anyway) because it's based only on your personal opinion of an album's quality.
-Brian
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 04:44:11 EST From: Calvin6S@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Sign of doom: Calvin agrees with Amanda Message-ID: <d82b9bf6.36e63eeb@aol.com>
]From the mind of Amanda > IMO, its the > people that desert the bands when they become popular that are the true > sellouts.
ABSOLUTELY. The only thing that pisses me off more than people that like a band because the band is popular is people that stop liking a band because said band becomes popular. Although it isn't unreasonable to say "I liked 'em before *this album*", it seems some people use that statement to validate their "unique tastes" rather than base it off their "personal" likes.
I can give a perfect example within our own camp. Now I will give you that "Pull Me Under" is not the most progressive song by DT and that it has probably been overplayed for most, but how many times have I heard "I hate PMU". I think quite a few of those statements are fueled by the fact that PMU is the "public's song" rather than the "inner circle's song". As for my feeling on PMU, I will never stop liking that song. I took a risk on this "DT" band way back when based off a Guitar World '92 review of Images and Words and Pull Me Under was the first song on the CD, and hence my introduction to Dream Theater. Back then I don't remember thinking "well, this is kinda basic." I remember thinking "WHAT A FIND!!!!!!!" I hope DT can deal with some of the hard core fans deserting them if they ever do "make it big". It is already happening in small doses.
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 07:58:20 -0500 From: John DiBella <rsch1@idt.net> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: When Dream And Today Unite on E-Bay Message-ID: <36E66C6C.532@idt.net>
Just wanted to throw this into the 'Jam, I've got a copy of WDATU on E-Bay. This is one of Mike Bahr's discs, I should say an "original", not a copy, as it is a silver. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=75565122
Thanks, John DiBella President/Xanadu Records http://idt.net/~rsch1/index.html
* Be EXCELLENT to each other! *
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 08:13:33 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Yabba Dabba Doo Message-ID: <36E67E0D.D6CB669F@isd.net>
KorgX3 wrote: >I'm a Flintstone's kid. 10 million strong and throbbing.
That would explain the brain damage. ;-)
Let's give a round of applause for red dye #5.
-- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's supposed to pack an awesome buzz" --Butthead
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:56:54 -0500 From: psull@ici.net To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: prog vs. reg Message-ID: <199903101445.JAA03769@bajor.ici.net>
> To sum it up: Do I want to hear stuff that DT has never played the like of > before? certainly. Do I want to hear them play stuff that other people > have already covered, even if they themselves haven't covered it? hell no!
I think you set the bar too high here. At a fundamental level, it can be said that there *isn't* anything that hasn't been done before, so no matter what a musisican does, he's simply rehashing. There's only so far that you can push the "progressiveness" idea before you actually start stifling creativity.
___Pat Sullivan_____________________________________ Email: psull@ici.net ICQ: 23499229 AIM: TOWHTSTS WWW:__ http://home.ici.net/~psull/psull.html _______ There is absolutely no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation.
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 16:01:00 +0100 From: Daniel Beziz <danjohn@club-internet.fr> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4729 Message-ID: <36E6892C.50751962@club-internet.fr>
> That subject heading is almost as bad. Kate is one of my favorite > performers as well. And yes, Tori does borrow a little of her style from > Kate. I first heard Kate on Peter Gabriel's fifth solo album, then the > third, then on Two Rooms, and I finally cracked and bought The Sensual > World. What I want to know is: already owning Lionheart, Sensual, Hounds > (EMI remaster + bonus tracks) and the Red Shoes, is This Woman's Work > still a "must-get?" > Thanks for your advice. > P
Yes, it is! As far as I'm concerned, I loathe "The red shoes". I think it is a radical change in musical philosophy for her, and that it was a wrong way. Former to that, and until "The sensual world", she had worked on a detached-from-time music, building her own universe of sensuality and morbidity. With TRS, she had tried to sound mainstream... Does that remind you of anything ? (like Metallica's Load...) Anyway, it was a very bad idea. So, my advice would be : you can buy anything she released before TRS. It's worth it.
-- "Truth is a three-edged sword" -Kosh ________________________ Daniel Beziz
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:23:23 +0100 From: "Martin" <mpb@netlab.sk> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: progressive vs metallica Message-ID: <000201be6aff$5bf462a0$0100007f@h6d7z8>
Yeah,
_progressive_ rock is a style of music and no matter how big progress made Metallica or any band, they won't be progressive band ever.
my $.02 Martin
>prog is about music that's structured.. getting away from standard=20 >verse/chorus 3 chord song... expanding musically.. i&w does that..=20 >FII regressed.. the band took there music in a direction that=92s=20 >conducive to masses..=20 >don't get me wrong.. there's are some definite progressive tunes on FII=20 >(lines in the sand, peruvian skies, trial of tears) and i like the album=20 >a lot.. it just took a turn away from prog. >they didn't "PROGRESS" with the album.. they "CHANGED".. big=20 >difference.. not necessarily a bad thing, but to argue that prog means a=20 >band changes they way they sound is stupid > >inferno
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 09:37:40 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Master the elusive art of scent. Message-ID: <002801be6b14$531a40e0$520d84d0@default>
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:40:50 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Request for Bogie or anybody Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990310113941.28010A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
I was wondering if Bogie might be able to put up any live version of "Surrounded." It one of my favorite songs from IAW and I still haven't heard a live version of it.
If anybody else knows of where I might be able to find it, please let me know. Thanks.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu http://cout.ml.org/ _Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- I like to go down to the dog pound and pretend that I've found my dog. Then I tell them to kill it anyway because I already gave away all of his stuff. Dog people sure don't have a sense of humor. -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:48:55 -0600 (CST) From: mpm_2112@ix.netcom.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: selling out Message-ID: <199931012155441@ix.netcom.com>
I remember reading a review of Images and Words on that Gibraltar Prog Rock Encyclopedia with someone saying about the album:
"I was *very* disappointed. There are some really terrible MTV tracks and I threw my CD away in disgust (honestly). They have, if only partially for now, sold out big time. This is ironic given how the first album was dedicated to a warning about selling out!"
Pretty funny shit, ey? I would love to see what this guy would have thought about FII, since thats the album most of the people on the jam consider "sell out." Eh, most of the stuff on that thing is BS. They dont even have Angra, Stratovarius, or Symphony X listed. And they also list Miles Davis and Al DiMeola! Last time I checked, those guys were jazz, not prog. IMO, the best source for Prog info (bands and the genre in general) is a book called the Progressive Rock Files. It has a lot of really great stuff in it (one gripe - add Fates Warning to the band list!).
Also, anyone tend to notice that a lot of prog metal bands (I include Rush) dont get a lot of mention in prog rock press? I remember reading an article in Guitar World about new progressive bands and Dream Theater wasnt mentioned at all. And about the "classic" bands, Rush wasnt mentioned either. Do a lot of prog fans consider prog metal guys "not real" prog?
Matt
===================================================== "A daily dose of eMpTyV "Following our instinct will flush your mind not a trend. Go against right down the drain." the grain until the end." -Dream Theater -Metallica =====================================================
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4731 **************************
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