YTSEJAM Digest 4732
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Master the elusive art of scent.
by INNSOUL@aol.com
2) "real" prog
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
3)
by "Jonathan Roberts" <robertsj@ptdprolog.net>
4) PMU / What Ever Happened To...
by Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
5) RE: PMU / What Ever Happened To...
by "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com>
6) Live Surrounded question
by BILL HUSTON <Huston@IOMEGA.COM>
7) who can get me started?
by Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
8) Superior pictures (NDTC)
by Bernd.Basmer@t-online.de (Bernd Basmer)
9) ?????????
by IceQD@aol.com
10) re: prog
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
11) Re: ?????????
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
12) REMOVE!!!!!!!!
by julianritter@t-online.de (Julius C?sahr)
13) 1. Ask for advice. 2. Kate Bush 3. Cyberduke, you're not alone !
by "YAN GONZALEZ" <korg_74@hotmail.com>
14) Re: ?????????
by "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
15) are YOU selling out!
by =?Windows-1252?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?= <mats.rydstrom@telia.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:12:40 EST
From: INNSOUL@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Master the elusive art of scent.
Message-ID: <ed921da3.36e6b618@aol.com>
>>It is now time for you to explore the majesties of scent! Savor the aromas
of spaghetti sauce, chocolate, coffee... Learn how to enjoy the odiferous
waftings from industrial zones and public restrooms! You will find that a
post-beef stroganoff bowel movement is one of the most progressive scents
ever concocted! Not for the unintellectually minded. It takes great amount
of study and theoretical education to harness the gift of smell. Soon you
will be able to reproduce most any smell imaginable simply by controlling
your perspiration! Be one of the first to master this wonderful ability!
Impress your friends, enthrall your relatives, perhaps even get laid! All
if you order now!<<
As silly as this was. I have to agree. It makes a lot more sense than
arguing an age old argument.
Somebody tell me to fuck myself now?
Sean
www.mftt.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:27:59 -0800
From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: "real" prog
Message-ID: <36E6B9AE.FCE57749@ucla.edu>
> Do a lot of prog
> fans consider prog metal guys "not real" prog?
I can only speak for myself here.. but I certainly dont. I usually
only lump things together into prog and prog rock if Im making
generalizations, as Im about to. Id rather listen to prog metal like
Vanden Plas or Fate's Warning any day over prog. A lot of people will
be horrifed by this, but I don't like Rush, Yes, King Crimson (no, Tony
Levin isn't enough to make me like them), and most of the stuff that is
generally considered prog. I do dig Genesis though. Most of the time I
throw it all together into the general category of prog, and most of the
time, the people I am addressing know what Im talking about.
Progressive rock is a pretty general category, and I use it most
frequently when contrasing it with generic mainstream rock, or the music
that a lot of radio stations around here consider hard rock. Example:
look in one of those catalogues for Columbia House and see what's listed
under hard rock: Peter Gabriel, Tom Petty, Neil Young, and Creed are
just a few I have seen lately. This goes to show that most people don't
agree on systems of classification, although i doub't anyone would agree
those 4 go together.
Oh yeah, and if Calvin starts agreeing with me, I guess I'll have to
change my point of view. Wouldn't want to start a trend or anything. ;)
~~Amanda
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 13:27:52 -0500
From: "Jonathan Roberts" <robertsj@ptdprolog.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Message-ID: <001401be6bec$f2a66e80$2b24bacc@jon-s-tube>
To be Progressive, in my understanding of the term as it
applies to music, means to push the musical envelope, experiment with
melody, harmony, rhythm, and sound, and try to do something nobody else has
ever done, not just to change
this is a quote from jim shields.
This is the way I 'interpret' the term progressive.
Like I said in my other post, it's not the text-book def but rather the
common understood meaning.
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 13:32:32 -0500
From: Lobsterback <hender@wam.umd.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: PMU / What Ever Happened To...
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19990310133232.00996a50@pop.wam.umd.edu>
>how many times have I heard "I hate
>PMU". I think quite a few of those statements are fueled by the fact that
PMU
>is the "public's song" rather than the "inner circle's song". As for my
>feeling on PMU, I will never stop liking that song.
I think the feeling's more of an "I'm tired of PMU" than sort of hatred.
DT's played it at nearly every concert since its conception, and it's
stayed pretty much true to its original form. As a bootleg collecter, I've
got to say while I love the song, I wish they'd play songs other than it in
its place. Same deal for "Metropolis", though I'd suspect just about
everyone on this list would object to that one not being played at every
single show (special holiday-type shows not included). But you've got to
look at it this way: most people *don't* own bootlegs, and most people
*don't* listen to DT as much as we do. For Dream Theater to not play "PMU"
would be almost unthinkable for them, and that's very understandable.
People here have said it before and it's true: we as Ytsejammers don't
represent the bulk of the Dream Theater fans.
Say, why not poke through the "WEHT" files while we're here? What Ever
Happened To...
- the proposed CDR/tape tree of all/most of the '98 X-mas shows?
- Marillion's February 1999 U.S. tour?
- Amelia Earheart?
Brian
===================================
Name:
W. Brian Henderson, Esq.
Contact:
hender@wam.umd.edu
ROBOT-CENTRAL:
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/
His Faithful Bootleg Page:
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~hender/Musik/Boot/
===================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:10:25 -0800
From: "Dave Thomas" <dthomas@best.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: RE: PMU / What Ever Happened To...
Message-ID: <000d01be6b2a$a8676760$046400c0@oemcomputer>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ytsejam@ax.com [mailto:ytsejam@ax.com]On Behalf Of Lobsterback
> - the proposed CDR/tape tree of all/most of the '98 X-mas shows?
Good question. I've wondered about that one myself.
> - Marillion's February 1999 U.S. tour?
They've decided to go back to the studio and record another CD before
touring here. They're now supposedly thinking about the fall. I think that
this CD will fulfill their latest record company contract, and after that,
they'll go to self-distribution (this is just a theory of mine, so don't
take it as truth). Fish is supposed to tour the US at about the same time as
well. Just as long as the two bands don't screw up my vacation again...
> - Amelia Earheart?
Kidnapped by aliens. I'm sure the editors of the Weekly World News could
give you all sorts of additional information.
Dave Thomas - Editor, Pixel Planet
Reviews of books, music, comics, movies, games, CG software, programming
tools and more!
http://www.pixelplanet.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 12:38:49 -0700
From: BILL HUSTON <Huston@IOMEGA.COM>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Live Surrounded question
Message-ID: <s6e667e3.039@IOMEGA.COM>
>>> <ytsejam@ax.com> 03/10/99 11:07am >>>
Andrew Coutermarsh queried:
I was wondering if Bogie might be able to put up any live version of
"Surrounded." It one of my favorite songs from IAW and I still haven't
heard a live version of it.
If anybody else knows of where I might be able to find it, please let me
know. Thanks.
Andrew,
Easy. There are two released versions of LATM. The German, version
and cheaper of the two, contains Surrounded live as opposed to the
Japanese version which contains Another Day. It's the same concert,
they just swapped these two songs depending on which copy you get.
Not to rag, but this info is in the FAQ. BTW, this show also contains a
killer version of the Killing Hand, much better than the studio version, IMO.
Wilmo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:01:25 -0500
From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: who can get me started?
Message-ID: <36E6CF95.B1861F1@bigfoot.com>
About a week ago, I had whatever the opposite of a brain fart is, and
now, I'm growing sicker and sicker of my music collection. It's like
everything I have, i've listened to ENOUGH already! Which doesn't seem
possible, right? I love my music! But it's happened. The passion is
beginning to ebb. This might be caused by the fact that I listen to
music during all waking hours, and the barrage of sound finally got to
me.
So here's the thing, I have absolutely no jazz. And lately, when I hear
it, just because it's not something that's been in my CD changer, I want
to give it a chance.
I'm so pathetic. I know nothing of jazz; i've heard of maybe 3 or 4 guys
and I don't know what's special about them.
So I want to get me some jazz! Now, I don't know what kind or from what
era I'm looking for, because *I don't know the stuff*. So I thought
someone on the list could help me, point out some solid records or
artists that exemplify the genre and that I would probably like.
-- Joshua Rasiel jrasi@bigfoot.com www.j51.com/~mrasiel Churchill's description of history: "It's just one damn thing after another."------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 20:46:14 +0100 From: Bernd.Basmer@t-online.de (Bernd Basmer) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Superior pictures (NDTC) Message-ID: <m10Kp02-0003EVC@fwd14.btx.dtag.de>
Hi!
Just wanted to tell you that there are new pictures at our homepage taken from our acoustic tour in France.
More will be added soon...
Greetings
Bernd
--------------------------------------------------------- Bernd Basmer Guitar - Superior Email: Younique@gmx.net Superior Homepage: http://www.free-minded.de
--------------------------------------------------------- If you're good, you solve your problems. If you're better you have none...
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:56:08 EST From: IceQD@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: ????????? Message-ID: <9162586f.36e6ce58@aol.com>
>>No, but I sure understand douching... do YOU understand it?
-The Doc >>
No I don't understand please explain, in less than 10 words ;-)
Amanda Rosenblum chipped in with Sybil, among other brit aliases
> I don't know about homicical hermaphroditic satan worshipping auto erotic asphyxiation loving prostethic hallucinogenic whatever... But I know when I smell mutliple personality disorder >
I never mentioned being a 'Satan worshipper' who is this Satan person?? ;-p As for the multiple personality thingie you could be right, we got at LEAST a Sybil and a Basil here .......
>>You're all wrong. Ice is a lonely, disturbed woman strapped into her bed. Fire is that hot tire iron she uses for a dildo, personified for the benefit of the squeamish.
-Brian Hayden >>
How many times? You have to have a vagina to use a dildo ...... Actually I could be wrong, Brian probably uses his up his arse, when his head isn't stuck up there ;-)
>>Tori 'n' Kate: Well, tori is on record(somewhere) saying that kate's a big influence. I actually got into Kate first, and then tori later on.
Joshua Rasiel >>
Heheheh you wish! I'm sure you'd like the CHANCE to get INTO either of them ..
>>KorgX3's Strawberry Footrot bottling company. Residents of Narnia please be prepared to pay appropriate sales taxes.>>
Just to take the credit for Korg rejoining the list and keeping us all laughing, just remember you have US to thank.
And is Korg the ONLY one to realise where we got the name Ice Queen from? The lion, the which ? and the wardrobe ........
Fire & Ice (and a load of woodland fauns dancing around a big stone table with a bloody great crack down the middle - ooh look mate it's Dr Dino's sacrificial altar)
Fire & Ice
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 11:58:12 PST From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: re: prog Message-ID: <19990310195813.8899.qmail@hotmail.com>
>(snips) >I mean, what is technically progressive??? Is it only when >you have a couple of guitarists playing arpeggios(sp?) at >a million miles a second, or where you have keyboardists >going at the speed of light? >(snip a buncha shit about phish being prog)
my original post was just making a reference to a very apparent distinction resident inside prog.. the difference between technical prog and concept prog.. obviously you don't see it so i'll elaborate:
technical prog: if you listen to pre-FII dream theater (half of FII is the same way) songs have movements.. the structure of the song is constantly changing.. e.g. erotomania, metropolis, a change of seasons.. those are some examples where you can't miss the flow of the progression that's constantly changing, but ALL dream theater (for the most part) was that way till FII.. dream theater was obviously influenced by bands like yes (relayer, close to the edge), rush (2112, caress of steel), frank zappa (we're only in if for the money, hot rats).. i was in no way saying that to be technically progressive the band has to have screaming arpeggios throughout their music (even though that can be a wonderful thing).. it's about song structure
concept prog: the other side of prog is albums that are completely structured.. albums that tell stories or convey one single emotional flow.. e.g. pink floyd (the wall, dark side of the moon), savatage (dead winter dead, streets), fates warning (a pleasant shade of gray).. I&W through Awake period seems to be a mixture of technical compositions built around concept type albums..
like i said in the original post.. many times both veins overlap but if you don't see the distinction you're blind.. and to take a dictionary definition of "progressive" and say that because a band is doing different things than others (all this is opinion btw) it's progressive is horribly wrong.. all genre names refer to how the music works..
i hate to break it to you but phish is NOT prog.. just because you think they play music nobody has before doesn't make them prog.. prog is a genre.. certain musical qualities land bands inside that genre.. phish is neither technically or conceptually prog..
inferno np: opeth - morningrise Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 15:19:23 -0500 (EST) From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: ????????? Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990310151636.17378A-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
> From: IceQD@aol.com > Subject: ????????? > > > I don't know about homicical hermaphroditic satan worshipping auto > erotic asphyxiation loving prostethic hallucinogenic whatever... But I > know when I smell mutliple personality disorder > > > I never mentioned being a 'Satan worshipper' who is this Satan person?? ;-p > As for the multiple personality thingie you could be right, we got at LEAST a > Sybil and a Basil here .......
so the other things are true?
> >>KorgX3's Strawberry Footrot bottling company. > Residents of Narnia please be prepared to pay appropriate sales taxes.>> > > Just to take the credit for Korg rejoining the list and keeping us all > laughing, just remember you have US to thank.
you think it's a GOOD thing to inflict mister Ecksthrey on thousands of people?!? and umm, no, i don't think it was you. moo.
--
"You are what you eat, you fucking cannibal!" -- KorgX3
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 18:22:32 +0100 From: julianritter@t-online.de (Julius C?sahr) To: ytsejam@axnet.net, remove@axnet.net Subject: REMOVE!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <36E6AA58.2FAEC4D@t-online.de>
AVE AVE!!
Would you be so kind and remove me from this list?!?!?!?!????!
THANX A LOT
Your J. C.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 14:24:53 PST From: "YAN GONZALEZ" <korg_74@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: 1. Ask for advice. 2. Kate Bush 3. Cyberduke, you're not alone ! Message-ID: <19990310222455.7163.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hi jammers !!!! VWgirlie (Nicole) just hit the nail with me. I'm brand new over here, and very recent prog rock fan. The fact is that, living in a country such isolated like this (regarding music. read it:GOOD music), is very hard to get CDs, MP3's, tapes, MD's videos or whatever other device to store music of the best. Not to mention that in order to buy something, you must know at least the name of the band or artist. Well in a nutshell, what I'm tryin' to say is that I knew a lot of bands thanx to Internet, and now thanx to 'jam. So Nicole, you said that Union is a 'must have' for anyone interested in Yes. Would you like to recommend another one, or should I start with this.. ? Thanx a lot. 2. Kate Bush Dave Ware wrote about Kate Bush.. Who's this girl. I know only her "Wuthering Hights" in a version of Angra's Angel Cry.(What a version !!!!) Would you please refresh my memory with some track of her at least semi known ???
3. Hey Cyberduke, at least you SAW the movie of Howard, I only know that the soundtrack is very interesting.... So, we're more than two whinning about living somewhere in the under-developed nations...;)
We should upload a page of Non-developed-nation's DT's fans.
For instance, maybe I will never see them live.
Excuse the lenght..! ;)
"There comes a time, when you realize, it's all over, sooner or later"
Who was that ? Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 17:02:09 -0600 From: "Brian D. Hayden" <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: ????????? Message-ID: <iss.559b.36e6f9eb.f3343.1@garnet.tc.umn.edu>
Responding to the message of <9162586f.36e6ce58@aol.com> from ytsejam@ax.com:
> >>You're all wrong. Ice is a lonely, disturbed woman strapped into her bed. > Fire is that hot tire iron she uses for a dildo, personified for the benefit > of > the squeamish. > > -Brian Hayden >> > > How many times? You have to have a vagina to use a dildo ...... > Actually I could be wrong, Brian probably uses his up his arse, when his head > isn't stuck up there ;-)
Sorry to burst your gay schoolboy fantasy bubble, but I'm completely heterosexual and planning to stay that way. And speaking of heads in asses...maybe something other than SHIT would come out of your mouth if you weren't always inhaling your own anal tract.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:12:29 +0100 From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Mats_Rydstr=F6m?= <mats.rydstrom@telia.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: are YOU selling out! Message-ID: <001d01be6a82$4e9171c0$12c6c6c3@lordrosse>
The topic is a bit tired by now, but since ppl are bringing it up...
My opinion is that Metallica doesn't NEED to do anything of what they do:
* open concerts with Breadfan or So What? * play long KEA/RTL medleys and Motorbreath, Am I Evil, Overkill, Stone C= old Crazy, The Shortest Straw and Disposable Heroes at their concerts * do a record with the San Fran symphony orchestra * promote their Reload CD by doing small gigs playing Helpless, The Thing That Should Not Be, Master Of Puppets (complete version), The Four Horsem= en etc (which they did in Europe) * release a double album of covers * etc
IF THEY DIDN'T WANT TO!
None of these things does actually help them gain publicity and media attention, or please the majority of their fans, significantly more than having just done things straight (which however having videos made by Jon= as =C5kerlund may do, but who's bigger? him or 'tallica?).
If YOU put that much emphasis on THEIR looks and image, YOU are a shallow minded poser. Ugly not=3D more credible. Of course they are making compro= mises in some ways. But selling out is catering to what the audience wants. The audience will never be bigger than Black Album era. A big part of that wo= uld prefer Black Album or pre-BL-era Metallica. Doing that for the sake of it= is selling out. Exactly the same can be said referring to DT selling out. Th= e current MTV audience does not have a specific need for Metallica or DT. Everyone knows that. Selling out is doing something because someone else wants you to do it. You will never know if someone's not doing it for the= ir own sake - you just have to trust them.
My view on this is that Metallica are doing, mainly, what they please, an= d that you have to respect that. I've had a lengthy discussion on this with Lars (in 96) and I completely respect and agree with his views on this an= d consider him to be a honest guy. I think I have the interview printed out somewhere but I'm too lazy to dig it out.
Next to last opinion: There are as many definitions of progressive rock h= ere as there are people on this list. But try to remember that just creating = and playing complex music is not something new or very ground breaking at all. Some of you still think that.
Last opinion: Everyone will at some point come to the conclusion that it = is not crucial to do something that is primarly NEW. It is crucial to do something that is primarly GOOD. (and, yes, good is of course a matter of opinion) Something that you FEEL GOOD about.
Mats - lordrosse@yahoo.com - mats.rydstrom@telia.com - http://www.nada.kth.se/~d94-mry
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4732 **************************
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