YTSEJAM Digest 4737
Today's Topics:
1) a short bitching
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
2) Townscream
by "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
3) Fusion
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
4) what I got for now
by Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
5) A plea for help
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
6) Talk about "sell-out"
by "Cody" <yoder@home.com>
7) not again
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
8) re: fusion
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
9) Wiener water soup & IceQD
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
10) jazz/fusion
by O-P Komonen <komoolli@trade.hamkk.fi>
11) Reviews from N. Gallop
by Younis Hilal <yhilal@cds.caltech.edu>
12) Standing ovations
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
13) Galactic Cowboys covering "not of this world"
by O-P Komonen <komoolli@trade.hamkk.fi>
14) Keep away Korg
by "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4735
by "Simon John Dodd" <S.J.Dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk>
16) Re: Townscream
by Daniel Beziz <danjohn@club-internet.fr>
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Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1999 23:23:15 -0800
From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
To: "ytsejam@ax.com" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: a short bitching
Message-ID: <36E8C0E2.EC782300@ucla.edu>
And now for something completely unrelated:
> This guy single
> handedly killed a great keyboardist by "inflicting" his habit on him
No one ever forces anyone else to do drugs. I didn't see anyone
tying Jon Melvoin down and sticking a needle in his arm. Sorry, but as
a person who has had experience in this area, a junkie is accountable
for his own actions.
~~Amanda
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 09:46:57 +0200
From: "Raivo Hool" <raitz@estcard.ee>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Townscream
Message-ID: <199903120746.JAA03201@xyz.estcard.ee>
> From: Daniel Beziz <danjohn@club-internet.fr>
> > I got a MP3 from a band called Townscream. The nome of the song
> > is Al=E1sz=E1lla a poklokra (wow, what a cool name heheh). Anyone can
> It's a hungarian band formed by the ex-leader of another hungarian band
> called Aftercrying. If you haven't heard any of the 6 albums of
Okay, and now this goes again to the Hungarian jammers. Are those albums
easy to get in Hungary or will I need to bribe somebody? Private mail,
please. Thank thee.
=========================================================================
Raivo Hool kontor raitz@estcard.ee
ICQ 19980975 isiklik raitz@ircnet.ee
Windows NT administraator istuv (+372) 6 711 450
Pankade Kaardikeskus liikuv (+372) 51 43 567
=========================================================================
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:03:03 -0600
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@prognosis.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Fusion
Message-ID: <001101be6c5e$c277a860$852dfea9@z979811wheat.farm.niu.edu>
Since it's currently my favorite genre, I'll try to answer the modern fusion
question
To preface, I agree with much of what Adam said about jazz in general,
up to the part about there being very few innovators today. I think Adam
just hasn't been exposed to enough of it (I'm lucky enough to be just
outside of Chicago, and to be at school with a bunch of jazz freaks, much
like Adam will be next semester.) Every area of jazz is still alive, from
Dixieland on up. There's scores of great innovative virtuoso bebop
musicians making great livings playing what they love. And fusion is what
it had never been before now.
Fusion has taken several forms. Theres the open improv form, which guys
like Hellborg/Lane have picked up into, and which the King Crimson guys
often venture into. LTE is almost like this on 3 minute warning.... but
it's not quite fusion. This isn't a favorite style of mine, though I highly
recommend the Lane discs... very interesting stuff.
There's the hard edged styles, which not a lot of players have really
gotten too deep into... Tribal Tech would be the pinnacle here in my
opinion. These guys have a lot of balls, and a lot of chops, and they
improv over some really hectic stuff (Gary Willis plays over changes from
hell more often than not). Holdsworth has ventured into this style in Heavy
Machinery, as has Greg Howe, on his last few albums. Distorted guitars, the
extreme of busy drumming, and intricate bass work.
Soft fusion... guys like Metheny often end up here... when not playing
what can be called traditional jazz. Brian Hughes, Lee Ritenour, etc... a
lot of these guys play this style, because it is SOOO marketable (to
restaurants, TV etc). Big money. Some of this stuff showcases great skill.
Some is pretty lame. My instructor's (Fareed Haque) albums have more or
less fallen under this category though his next album is said to be bebop
(that's ALL he plays out here. He's said that he has to do things as he's
told for his contract, because they own his ass). Still a lot of cool stuff
there!
Proggy fusion: DiMeola is soooo proggy these days. He's sort of a
technogeek as of lately. He's even playing through the Roland VG 8.
McLaughlin's last couple have been here too... ever since he developed that
insane perfect picking technique that ruins all hope of swing, while
solidifying obscene virtuoso lines... he's been almost a prog guy in his
writing style. The album with Dennis Chambers is a brutal example.
I'll crack out my cd cases if this ends up being a viable discussion,
and see if I can add anything more substantial and recommend any albums in
particular.
Take care!
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 03:37:25 -0500
From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: what I got for now
Message-ID: <36E8D245.BD9C1C5@bigfoot.com>
Thanks to all who barraged me with their jazz suggestions. I ordered
from amazon the following: thelonius monk's Brilliant Corners, Miles
Davis' Kind Of Blue, and Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out.
That stuff should arrive next week.
So I also went to tower tonight, and got a charlie parker compilation,
and some modern jazz by Medeski Martin and Wood, which so far I dig
funkily.
thanks again folks
-- Joshua Rasiel jrasi@bigfoot.com www.j51.com/~mrasiel Churchill's description of history: "It's just one damn thing after another."------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:33:07 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: A plea for help Message-ID: <36E8D143.7E2C9D32@isd.net>
Kevin Rackley wrote: (Say that 10 times fast) >Currently in the car's changer: >5.) Saturday Night Fever - Soundtrack (disco lives)
No shit? I have that on vinyl. Nothing has seen that "grove" in over a decade, including the stylus. I'm tempted to drag it out and give it a spin.
Somebody STOP me.... -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's supposed to pack an awesome buzz" --Butthead
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 00:46:23 -0800 From: "Cody" <yoder@home.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Talk about "sell-out" Message-ID: <007d01be6c64$cf082720$6a9c0018@CX685809-A.cv1.sdca.home.com>
Oh my gaaaaawd!! Get over it. Stop complaining about this shit.
Kurt wrote: >One of my major complaints about the music society is how people try to >"catergorize" music. This doesn't sound "prog" enough. Metallica does >not have the "metal sound" anymore... - ... Bands change over time, they would get >bored doing teh same thing over and over again. To say DT or Metallica >"sold out" is a very false statement indeed. > >Just my feelings, >Kurt > > > >
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:08:03 PST From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: not again Message-ID: <19990312090803.6069.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Suscribe ytsejam "Federico D=EDaz de Le=F3n Orraca"
uh oh.. not another "frederico"!!.. Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 01:14:38 PST From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: re: fusion Message-ID: <19990312091438.21324.qmail@hotmail.com>
>All this talk about jazz and such brings up a question I have: >who, if anyone, is performing fusion music today? I love Al >DiMeola, Jean Luc Ponty and other similar artists, but much >of their material was recorded in the '70's and '80's. Is >there anyone carrying on the "fusion" tradition, or has the >music morphed into something else? I'm always looking for >recommendations of new music, as there's no such thing as "too >many CDs"...
check out greg howe - introspection gordian knot - gordian knot spastik ink - ink complete
and yes, fusion is morphed... prog scene and fusion scene seem to be overlapping.. great music anyway around it
inferno NP: Green Day - Dookie :)..just kidding.. i promise :) (i just got back from a shitty punk show at marritime hall.. esh.. what a nightmare) Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 03:35:19 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Wiener water soup & IceQD Message-ID: <36E8DFD7.FF6F5FD2@isd.net>
IceQD wrote: >PS: DT content - wonder how far they (DT) got with the new album before Mike >and Marlene Portnoy had their newborn event?
The question certainly is commendable, but... Newborn event? Anyone using the language of the "politically correct" should be taken out and beaten with a hose. That statement is about as sterile as it gets.
I hope you realize I'm just having fun. :) But geeeeeeeeeesh!
-- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Caffeine enhanced - Financially challenged
This speaker project is costing me a fortune! I'll be forced to survive on "Golden Wheat" TM macaroni and cheese, (using water, powered milk and lard) but the speakers will rock. ;-)
The household pets are getting a little nervous, the dogs are safe, for now. I'm staring into the aquarium eyeing up Mr. Jack Dempsey (Cichlasoma octofasciatum) Pass the tartar sauce!
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 11:45:46 +0200 From: O-P Komonen <komoolli@trade.hamkk.fi> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: jazz/fusion Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990312114546.009b56e0@trade.hamkk.fi>
'm not a jazz expert, but I'll tell you what I like... for a little background info my musical taste has progressed from 80's metal -> thrash, speed, death -> progressive thrash -> progressive metal -> prog rock -> fusion / jazz.
Anyways, heres a list of few albums I've enjoyed lately: Victor Wooten, Steve Smith, Scott Henderson: Vital Tech Tones
I was told this CD is "The LTE of jazz fusion" and that's true :) awesome musicians, great soloes, loads of improvisation etc. There's also a cover of "Giant Steps" originally by Coltrane. for little clip, go to http://www2.ShrapnelRecords.com/Shrapnel/TC-4000.htm
Niacin - High Bias
John Novello on hammond & soundalikes, Billy Sheehan on bass, Dennis Chambers on drums, I had heard only little of Chambers before this disc, and I hadn't heard Novello at all, so I put my expectations on Sheehan, and wasn't disappointed at all, yet the other guys surpass him, the band plays really tight kb-drums-bass trio jazz fusion. There are some clips at cdnow,(hope this works) at http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1082191224/pagename= /RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID=FRN-NIACIN/ddcn=SD-13441+9017+2
Jonas Hellborg - E
*DROOL* Get this disc. NOW. Swedish monster bassist Hellborg with Jens Johansson of Strato/Yngwie fame and his brother Anders on drums. If you're not air drumming with this album, you're dead... even deaves drum to this groove :) for soundclips, check out doc's total.devastation.com /incoming/hellborg/
Chick Corea - Return to forever
More on the "classical fusion" side (all above are from 90's, this babe from 1972) anyways, 4 songs from 6 to 17 mins, crazy soloes, Chick Corea on electric piano with Joe Farrell - flutes,soprano saxophone, Flora Purim - vocal,percussion, Stan Clarke - basses and Airto Moreira - drums,percussion. The female vox might be a turn-off to someone, but the music is soooo great you'll get over it. for soundclips, see: http://www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1082191224/pagename= /RP/CDN/FIND/album.html/ArtistID=FRN-COREA*CHICK/ddcn=SD-8118+21022+2
Mahavishnu Orchestra - Inner Mounting Flame
IMO the best Mahavishnu disc, incredible shredding by McLaughlin & comrades, for most of the time listening this disc you go "wha? you mean you can actually play like this, and survive?"
I'd also recommend Al DiMeola as have many before me, my fav. DiMeola is without a doubt Elegant Gypsy.
op777
Thoughts while Eating at McDonald's "...if people were actually shaped like those little "throw litter away" people-figures with the pointy limbs that appear on the boxes the burgers come in, they'd fall into gratings all the time and get stuck. But getting out of jail would be really easy." -Kevin Madden
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 02:37:58 -0800 (PST) From: Younis Hilal <yhilal@cds.caltech.edu> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Reviews from N. Gallop Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990312023557.7525B-100000@crane.cds.caltech.edu>
More stuff from Neil.
Younis Hilal------------------------yhilal@cds.caltech.edu
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Gallop, Neil wrote:
> Hi all > > two more reviews from your correspondent in Germany. > > 7ZUMA7 - Deep Inside > (Suburban Records - BURBCD002) > > This is a release that I have been looking forward to for a long > time, and the wait was worth it. Some of you may remember my very > positive review of the debut mini CD by this Dutch stoner/desert > band - well, their first full-length album more than confirms my > initial impressions. There is simply nothing on this album that > I can fault or that I would want to change. Songs that rock and > groove, plenty of fuzz and wah-wah pedal, a nice dirty and > rough sound. Songs that make you wish you were blasting them out > while driving a big open-topped car down the motorway with a nice > cold beer in your hand. Did somebody mention Kyuss? Yes, I did. > It's all here - the instrumental "Fistful Of Dolls" would fit well > on any Kyuss album, the slower acoustic track "Savannah" has the > spacy, trippy elements that were so characteristic of some Kyuss > stuff, and "Diamonds 2000" features a wonderful jam at the end > of the song. This album is better than anything the crown princes > of stoner/desert rock, Fu Manchu, have done. The vacuum that was > left behind when Kyuss disbanded has been filled. Blasphemy? > Possibly, but I am a happy man. Pass the bong. 10/10 > > NIGHTWISH - Oceanborn > (Spinefarm Records - SPI67CD) > > I ordered this album after having heard lots of good things about > it, and I had high expectations of it. Now, having listened to it > 4 or 5 times, I must admit to being a little disappointed. Don't > get me wrong - it's a very good album with some great songs (and > even greater singing), but it's not quite what I was expecting. > Symphonic, occasionally bombastic, the music comes in somewhere > between Stratovarius and Symphony X. The most striking thing about > the album is, of course, Tarja's amazing voice - I know of no other > female singer in metal/rock with a voice this good and clear. For me, > her singing is, however, sometimes a bit low down in the mix. To > be honest, I was expecting (and would have preferred) something > either a touch darker or more progressive - as a result this album > (which is still remarkable in its own right) is neither flesh nor > fowl for me. Fans of bands like Angra, Straovarius and Symphony X > will simply have to buy this album - lots of power metal elements > and lashings of fast double bass drumming. So, overall a very good > and most impressive album, but one which doesn't quite have the > spark that I was looking for. Still well worth buying though. 9/10 > > stay safe and happy listening > Neil Gallop (neil.gallop@softwareag.com) > Currently playing: Tiamat - WildLive
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 04:46:58 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Standing ovations Message-ID: <36E8F0A1.6910A5CC@isd.net>
AyameYuki wrote: >seats! i dont know how much tech training he went through...but man, id love >to get to the speed he was at. but man, you should have been there! he had >like 14 encores and stuff. and took like 7 bows, and got at least 4 standing >standing >ovations.
That happens at Hanson concerts! Did you know that a single fence charger can service several hundred seats?
KorgX3 wrote: >KorgX3 wants Shania Twain and a six pack of Cherry Coke.
I'll take Jewel and a quart of vegetable oil.
NP: Genesis - Abacab (on vinyl) -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "It's supposed to pack an awesome buzz" --Butthead
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:33:28 +0200 From: O-P Komonen <komoolli@trade.hamkk.fi> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Galactic Cowboys covering "not of this world" Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19990312133328.009ae720@mail.surffi.net>
GC song not many have heard.... http://www.tse.net/realaudio/galacticcowboys-not_of_this_world.ra or http://www.tse.net/realaudio/galacticcowboys-not_of_this_world.ram for streaming
op777
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 07:08:57 -0500 From: "Kez" <kez@spectrum-internet.com> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Keep away Korg Message-ID: <007601be6c81$1b2a71a0$c9475d18@kezcom.mgfairfax.rr.com>
>-- >KorgX3 wants Martha Stewart more then Shania Twain. > >
Thank God I'm not the only one. Martha's a hottie.
Jeez, did I just say that?
Kez
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 12:24:23 GMT From: "Simon John Dodd" <S.J.Dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4735 Message-ID: <49BD617A19@sdk1.derby.ac.uk>
A few observations.
> BTW, anybody know what Kate's been up to lately? Me an' her have been kickin Dave Gilmour's insides, trying to persuade him to get out of bed and write a new Floyd album.
>Currently in the car's changer: > 5.) Saturday Night Fever - Soundtrack (disco lives) Uh huh. Okay, like WHY?? Should we be worried?
> a rumor or not. And Petrucci is just about Mesa/Boogie's >biggest endorser (judging from the huge feature about him >on their web page). So I would think that in the musician end Damn, when are they actually gonna' update boogie.com? That interview's a year .5 old. NEW JP INTERVIEW, PLEASE! And whatever happened to those demos of his that used to be on there?? Why'd they get taken off, and has anyone still got a copy?
> As for Metallica: They sold out. It's up to you whether or not you care. OH NO! NOT THIS AGAIN!! > I personally don't care how many copies an album sells. Crap is crap no > matter how it's packaged. Fair dos, yes. However...
>Argue the facts: Metallica changed their sound completely >for the black album. By coincidence, they said it would be their > heaviest album yet, Yes, but they completely changed their sound between KEA and ...AJFA, for God's sake! And frankly, the Black album WAS their heaviest album yet. Thrash is NOT HEAVY to my mind; the only songs that were "really "heavy" in terms of atmospherics on Puppets were "Sanitarium", which was FUCKING heavy and oppresive, and "The Thing That Should Not Be". And are you really saying that "Sad But True" was a radio-friendly unit shifter?
>(note that they swore they'd never do a video, cut their hair, or wear >makeup, all of which they thrive on now) Note that they also gloated that Metallica didn't need huge light shows and flashy stage sets back when they were trawling RTL about the globe. Now look at the Justice... tour and EAT THEM WORDS!!!
> album was done on a new contract, and I believe they made more money off it OH DEAR!!! Obviously that makes it a sell-out, because it ACTUALLY SOLD RECORDS!!! Well, I've been so stupid for all this time - I'm gonna go home and throw out all those other records when the band sold out (that is to say, Ptacek would have us believe, they sold records:) - I'm gonna bin "Dark Side of the Moon", "The Wall", "Appetite For Destruction" - all that other commercial shit!! I never realised that a record selling in any numbers invalidates the content.
> (don't even tell me Lars is a great drummer, or Hammett studied Lars is a great drummer. I remember the evil " Less Is More?" debate that started just after I got here (I seem to remember some thread about Liv Tyler blowing her dad was in my first Digest!), and someone said "Lars isn't interesting enough to play slow...la la la...xyz drummers had it, Ringo had it..." No he didn't. Beatles records bore the living shit out of me. The drums are shite; okay, you can argue that nothing else would really have fitted, but none of that disguises that Ringo Star was a shit drummer. And Lars Ulrich IS interesting enough when he plays slow. IMO.
phew, thank God that's over with... > PS: DT content - wonder how far they (DT) got with the new album before Mike > and Marlene Portnoy had their newborn event? Maybe now they're taking a break, it'd be a good time for an update from JR or one of the others; since Mike's otherwise engaged?
Si wants Emma Ledden.
(p.s., let's follow Korg's trend: everyone hold up their hands and say who they like - banned names inc. Kate Bush, Tori AMos) ------------------------------------------------------ "If there's a pensive fear, a wasted year A Man must learn to cope If his obsession's real, suppression that he feels Must turn to hope" -John Petrucci s.j.dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk lord_ibanez@hotmail.com http://members.tripod.com/Lord_Ibanez/Lord_Ibanez.html ------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 13:47:08 +0100 From: Daniel Beziz <danjohn@club-internet.fr> To: Fernando Rauber <ferer@conex.com.br>, ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Townscream Message-ID: <36E90CCC.435ECC03@club-internet.fr>
> Tkz. their sound is really incridible! What albums (of Townscream and > Aftercrying) do you recommend?
You've asked the real tough question beacause I am a devoted fan of Aftercrying's. I love each and every album. But I'll present you the 6 , so that you can choose.
"Overground Music" -1990 - (40:25 - 8 tracks from 3:00 to 10:45) First album. No drums, and exclusively acoustic. Mostly piano and cello. A jewel. Of course, the singing is not great when the guy sings (you'll have to get past that to appreciate all the richness of their music), but in the called Shining, the woman has an extraordinary voice.
"Megalazottak es Megszomoritottak" (Humilated and Injured) -1992- (42:00 - 5 tracks from 1:50 to 22:10) Now there's a drummer. The first and longest track resembles a lyric poem, with a very soft progression finishing in chaos. Maybe more jazz than rock.
"F=F6ld es =E8g" (Earth and Sky)-1994 - (60:00 - 11 tracks from 1:48 to 13:40) More of a rock pulse in this one, and you now realize that when they say they admire King Crimson and ELP, it's true. The first two tracks are named "The return of the manticore" pt I&II, and it's an hommage to ELP. Also more electric guitar. The last track (in two parts for 21:00) is another lyric poem, marvelous!
At the end of the recording, Csabor Vedres leaves the band.
"De Profundis" -1996- (70:00 - 15 tracks from 0:40 to 12:10) The guitars are more saturated, in the tracks played by the whole band, that sound as jazz, and contemporary as rock. But there're also a few tracks for solo performance, on cello, guitar, piano, trombone... Just take a look at all the guests, there's a whole orchestra with them. Maybe my favorite Aftercrying!
"Els=F6 Evtized" (10 years already) - (72:00/71:00 - double album, one disc half compilation half new tracks and rarities, one disc dedicated to a concert from 1990) All in all, you'll find more than 90 minutes of unrealeased before tracks in here. All the raririties except for one are just brilliant, with orchestra. And the concert is simply unforgettable.
"6" -1997- (68:00 - can't say more about timing because it's mostly two pieces of approximately 25minutes divided in many parts plus an introduction, and intermezzo and a Conclusion) The tougher one. Much more rock than the others, and still very contemporary and jazz.. The most complex of their albums, but definitely a "must-get".
At the same time, Csabor Vedres formed Townscream. They released so far only one album "Nagyvarosi Ikonok" (I don't know the translation!), so if youwant to get one Townscream album, it won't be hard to choose!
By the way, I've seen Aftercrying in concert in France last year, they're astonishing! I heard they'll be in Baja prog, in Mexico this year and that they may tour in Brazil, so keep informed, so that you don't miss them!
I hope I've helped.
See you,
Daniel
-- "Truth is a three-edged sword" -Kosh ________________________ Daniel Beziz
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4737 **************************
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