YTSEJAM Digest 4742
Today's Topics:
1) A few words about the DC COOPER show
by "Volodya" <oanrec@club-internet.fr>
2) more on the drum debate
by Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
3) jens
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
4) SH
by "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
5) Jens / Shannon Hoon and Blind Melon
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
6) Re: IMHO
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
7) Type O Positive ;-)
by IceQD@aol.com
8) NDTC-need help!
by "Dave Boland" <hellstorm@hotmail.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 4741
by DTheater99@aol.com
10) Jamload o stuff
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
11) please explain...
by Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com>
12) Re: Ringo again - no DTC
by "Antony Gelberg" <antony@antgel.demon.co.uk>
13) Re: Type O Positive ;-)
by Vincent LuPone <vgl@syspac.com>
14) Re: more on the drum debate
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
15) re: Friedman & Becker
by "xxx" <hipodilski@usa.net>
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Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:23:56 +0100
From: "Volodya" <oanrec@club-internet.fr>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: A few words about the DC COOPER show
Message-ID: <000901be6e60$f7b98940$636c9ec2@default>
Hello everyone,
Last week DC Cooper did a series of promotion gigs in France. All shows
were short, in-store acoustic gigs; all except one. In Paris we had a chance
to see the whole band playing a full, one and a half hour electric gig in a
real venue with the capacity of about 300 people. And on top of that the gig
was absolutely free!
The band consisted of the same musicians that played on the album : Gunter
Werno (keyboards) from Vanden Plas, Tore Ostby (guitar) from Conception, and
3 musicians from Pink Cream 69 : Kosta Zafirou (drums), Alfred Koffler
(guitar) and Dennis Ward (bass).
One thing seemed strange to me : Koffler didn't play a single solo - it was
Tore who truly shined during the whole gig. Maybe it was the same thing on
the album but I thought they shared shredding responsibilities :) I should
note that Dennis Ward and Gunter did a hell of a job on the backing vocals!
The first highlight of the show was "Wasted Time", one of Royal Hunt's hit
singles if I may say so, which sounded different from the original because
there were no female backing vocals first, and second because Gunter didn't
try to copy Andre's style and brought something different to the keyboard
part. Another highlight was "River of Pain", from Royal Hunt's "Paradox"
album. More similar to the original this time. And finally "You've got
another thing coming", a famous Judas Priest cover. In fact, everyone was
sure that DC will do a Priest song (he's known as a big Halford fan; well
you can hear that on the album :) ), just didn't know which one. They even
did the same sing-along part as Priest usually does. And the grand finale of
course: "The Union", final track on the album and the band decided to close
the show with this one. MAJESTIC! When the show was over the crowd continued
singing the main melody of the song.
Other songs that fans seemed to appreciate a lot were "The Angels Comes"
and "Dream".
The complete play-list goes like this:
1. within yourself
2. forgive me
3. three generations
4. the angel comes
5. until the end
6. dream
7. take me in
8. wasted time
9. keyboard solo / chained
10. freedom
11. river of pain
12. whisper
13. easy living
___Encore____
14. You've got another thing coming
15. The Union
Well, DC proved to be one of the best singers on the metal/prog scene these
days : not only that he has a great voice, he also proved to be a fantastic
frontman! Keep up the great work and we hope to see you with Royal Hunt next
time!
A dedicated Royal Hunt/DC Cooper fan.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 16:47:13 -0500
From: Phil Carter <phil@usefulware.com>
To: A Pleasant Shade of Ytse <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: more on the drum debate
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19990314164713.007d5a10@pop.usefulware.com>
Greetings ye 'jamanoids....
[Drum debate, round II. FIGHT!!!]
> I may be able to entertain the idea that aesthetic quality is
>subjective in an important sense (though I still don't like it), but
>this sort of relativism just pissses me off. Who has superior manual
>dexterity has nothing to do with your goddamm opinion.
Yes, it does, until you start quantifying the measurement somehow. I have
yet to see a single person who has said anything that is not an OPINION
about WHY Lars "sucks". I've seen "sloppy", "lousy", "meandering",
"uncoordinated" and so forth as terms. All of them are OPINIONS.
>I guess you just can't stand those deluded physicists who think they
>have some sort of "mainline" on the truth about quantum mechanics.
Try again. I think they're incredibly intelligent for theorizing what they
do. The difference is that they THEORIZE. None of them proposes their
theories as fact or unassailable truth; in fact many of the intelligent
ones such as Lederman, Hawking, and so forth encourage deconstruction and
criticism of their theories because that's where more knowledge comes from.
>Just trying to correct the misguided youth of america,
Youth? I'm 26 years old. Thanks for the compliment.
Mosh pisses me off so much because he continues to spout his opinions as
fact. The single intelligent thing I've heard from him so far on this
matter is right here:
>sloppier than a 2 dollar whore on Saturday night... Measure it with a
>metronome...
Good god, an actual way to MEASURE Lars' competence. Hm. Maybe Doc does
have something useful to say after all.
>Learn what drumming is about before you run off at the mouth, like all the
>other Lars supporters.
Oh, I guess I spoke too soon. "Learn what drumming is"? You are out of your
goddamn mind. I have seen dozens of great drummers play live including Dave
Lombardo, Scott Travis, Virgil Donati, Vinnie Colaiuta (sp?), Dave Weckl,
Dennis Chambers, Terry Bozzio, Neil Peart, Portnoy, Deen Castronovo, Simon
Phillips, Will Calhoun, Frankie Banali, and many many more.
And you seem to be missing something else. I never once said Lars was the
greatest drummer alive. I never even said he was close. I simply said he's
more talented than people seem to be giving him credit for lately.
If you want to continue this debate with me, please send it via private
email so we don't irritate the 'jam readers any more.
ta,
Phil
=========================================================
Phil Carter -- phil@usefulware.com http://www.mindspring.com/~philcarter
Check out the Glass Hammer website at http://www.glasshammer.com/
"Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life."
-- Berthold Auerbach
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:48:16 PST
From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: jens
Message-ID: <19990314214816.15197.qmail@hotmail.com>
>No, it's actually an automaton of Jens' creation, he's been
>known to do stuff like replicate himself, how do you think
>he plays those fast riffs on all those Strato albums?? He's
>got 2 or 3 of himself... :)
that's was my next guess :)
inferno
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:59:23 PST
From: "Isaac Trumbo" <inferno_one@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: SH
Message-ID: <19990314215923.20823.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Second Question: Who is Shannon Hoon in JLMB?
dead 3rd Eye Blind guy.. drug overdose..
i think mike threw him in the song along with kurt cobain cause mr. hoon
made a pissy comment somewhere about dream theater being a shitty band..
so naturally he encured the rath of god and is now deceased.. sucks for
him..
inferno
np: blind guardian - nightfall in middle-earth
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:12:30 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Jens / Shannon Hoon and Blind Melon
Message-ID: <36EC344E.C44E0C81@home.com>
Isaac Trumbo asked:
> umm.. this isn't THE jens johansson it?.. this is a jens johansson
> admirer who decided to use the guys name right?..
> i'm clearifing is all :)
Yep. It's THE Jens Johansson.
---Adrian asked: >Second Question: Who is Shannon Hoon in JLMB?
The jackass singer from Blind Melon, who ragged on Dream Theater, being he drugged himself to death. For the whole story, check out the DT FAQ.
---
While I'm on the Blind Melon topic....... let me briefly relay my first ever Blind Melon listening experience to everybody. Keep in mind, this is UNbiased, since I wasn't even into DT (or even prog) at the time.
The first time I heard a Blind Melon song (I don't even know the name... it's that soft one that was really popular) it was on 101 WRIF here in Detroit. Now, WRIF often plays these "Loony Tunes", which are re-done songs with silly altered lyrics. For example: "I Can't Drive, I'm 65" based on Sammy Hagar's "Can't Drive 55", "Asshole Son" based on Soundgarden's "Black Hole Sun". You get the idea.
Well, when I first heard this goofy fucking Blind Melon song, I HONESTLY thought it was one of these Loony Tunes (only I couldn't figure out what song it was making fun of)! Hearing the lyrics that go something like "I'm so lame, and my life is pretty plain" or whatever, is just as funny to me as "Asshole son....... get a job....."
So I heard this thing two or three times, and laughed my ass off each time..... until I was ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED to find out it was a real song! Damn, it's pretty bad when a song is so awful that you think it's purposely supposed to be that way to make you laugh. =)
- Joe DeAngelo jdeangelo@home.com ICQ # 1872723 --------------------------------------- "Fuck trends, and fuck posers" - Jon Schaffer, Iced Earth ---------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:15:32 -0700 From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: IMHO Message-ID: <002e01be6e68$358ade20$520d84d0@default>
>Second Question: Who is Shannon Hoon in JLMB?
The dead ex-singer of Blind Melon. The dumbass overdosed and died as a result. I think it was basically a "last laugh" for DT as a couple of Blind Melon guys totally dissed them in one issue of Guitar magazine. It's like, "Hahhaha, you made fun of use but now YOU'RE DEAD! LOL! and we're still truckin'!"
or something. Not that I don't like Blind Melon, though... "I don't feel the Sun's coming out today..." That album (and Nirvana's En Utero) have the privelidge of summoning memories of Stephen King's "The Stand" whenever I hear them. hehehe. So I can't hate them. -- KorgX3 has spoken. Nyaaaaah.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:12:57 EST From: IceQD@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Type O Positive ;-) Message-ID: <8fb16928.36ec4279@aol.com>
>Oh, and if you didn't know - Peter Steele has a *little* thing with >lesbians... >The Bensonhoist Lesbian Choir guests on nearly every CD... > >Oh, and don't forget "My Girlfriend's Girlfriend"..
Hehehehehehe how about 'My Boyfriend's Boyfriend'? And whioe we are on the subject of TON, Josh Silver is another great kb player.
Korg you really MUST cut your toenails dude .........
Ice wants Johnny Kelly and Peter Steele for a threesome ...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 15:59:15 PST From: "Dave Boland" <hellstorm@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: NDTC-need help! Message-ID: <19990314235915.9593.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hi all, did anyone tape the Tori Amos Storytellers on VH1 a few weeks back? if so, and you're interested in a trade of some sort, please e-mail me! my family went to do it for me, but instead, I got about 2 minutes of Shania Twain! please help! first come, first serve!
thanks, dave boland Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:12:24 EST From: DTheater99@aol.com To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 4741 Message-ID: <3f29cebf.36ec5068@aol.com>
<<But, speaking of which, the band Alcatraz had Steve Vai and IIRC, Yngwie Malmstein....is this correct. I have one of the tapes, with Desert Diamond and Stripper. Who was the other guitarist on it. Was it Malmstein or someone else....and which ones where Malmstein and Vai both on?>>
Malmsteen was on No Parole From Rock N' Roll and Live: Sentence. Im not sure which ones Vai was on though and from what I remember,I don't think they played on the same album at all.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:29:45 -0600 (CST) From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Jamload o stuff Message-ID: <199903150129.TAA07822@adam.enteract.com>
Jason: > I may be able to entertain the idea that aesthetic quality is > subjective in an important sense (though I still don't like it), but > this sort of relativism just pissses me off. Who has superior manual > dexterity has nothing to do with your goddamm opinion, and I don't see
I believe Phil is more upset about the quality judgements against Lars, than the technical score. We all spew our own opinions all over the place about what we like and dislike... I happen to DISLIKE with extreme emphasis on the DIS, anything that has to do with Metallica. :) Clearly technique, up to the point of variations in methods of reaching the same ends, can be judged as superior or inferior. David Gilmour is an inferior alternate picker when compared to Yngwie Malmsteen. But then it's easy to disagree with a statement like "David Gilmour is an inferior GUITARIST compated to Yngwie. Live and let live, I suppose. :) That or go for the major arteries.
Juli: > How could you take it seriously with songs like "Grandma's House of Babes", > "Swiss Army Girl", and the classic "Mr. Johnson and the Juice Crew" However, > the musicians do have serious chops. All in all fun music that you don't > really have to think about.
Lets not forget about anthems like Don't Call Me Dude, and the medley, I'm Not Going Down With the Ship or whatever it was called. I really dug that band when I was a lot younger. :)
Indiiana Jones: > But, speaking of which, the band Alcatraz had Steve Vai and IIRC, > Yngwie Malmstein....is this correct. I have one of the tapes, with > Desert Diamond and Stripper. Who was the other guitarist on it. Was > it Malmstein or someone else....and which ones where Malmstein and > Vai both on?
Come ON!!! You can't tell the difference between Vai and Yngwie? It should be obvious... if there's so many effects on the sound that the guitarist can play one note and it will sound like Mozart, it's gotta be Vai! At least, according Angelo Lombardi... That album is Vai, all the way. How can you STAND those vocals? Not even the cancer throat sounds of Cacophony can prepare me for Graham Bonnet!
> Now that i'm on the subject of Vai, i'm gonna ask about Bad 4 Good. > What are those little boys doing now, especially McLaughflin (IIRC, > the guitar genuis kid). I was listening to thier tape the other > day, and asked myself what the fuck are they doing now. Anyone know.
Check www.guitar9.com Thomas McRocklin has a demo-type cd out there with some samples. Not a whole lot more impressive than when he was like 13. I guess he got too many pats on the back when he was a kid.
Isaac: > umm.. this isn't THE jens johansson it?.. this is a jens johansson > admirer who decided to use the guys name right?.. > i'm clearifing is all :)
Get your buttocks out of your pocket. If you take a moment to view the URL in his sig you could have cleared this up without that post.
> his last project was "perspectives" that he released in 96.. it was all > done digitally (mac software) with a few lead tracks done by friends of > his such as friedman.. the album's really fuckin cool.. i love it..
All guitars on the album were performed by Jason Becker, his dad, his uncle, and Michael Lee Firkins. Friedman doesn't make an appearance.
> i pray ASL doesn't take him away from us any time soon.. i'm looking > forward to hearing some more good music from him..
Read his current page (updated) for details on his health. He's not going anywhere for a while (though he's still majorly screwed! It only happens to MY heros...)
> I remember reading a quote from Ringo where he said: > "I was and still am the greatest rock drummer of all time." > So I def think he had an ego prob. > Question: Is it still an ego when there is no justification?
Name a drummer in rock music who has had a bigger influence. Ringo was no technical god, but he was on par with guys like Bonham for the effect he had on the pulse of rock music. Adrian > I guess nearly any musician who is now in his early twenties started out with > Nirvana, Metallica und such stuff. As you say it's not difficult, I don't > think it's good stuff at present but I have to be thankful that they brought > me on the path to DT.
I was lucky. By then I was already teaching guitar. :) I'm 21 now, but when I got into the whole thing, it was all about Vai, Satch, Becker, Friedman... Iron Maiden, Slayer, etc. Anything that had shred. My how things have changed (for me and for the world!) > Second Question: Who is Shannon Hoon in JLMB?
And Ex-lead singer of Blind Melon.
Chris Ptacek - someone@prognosis.com "Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:47:12 -0500 From: Joshua Rasiel <jrasi@bigfoot.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: please explain... Message-ID: <36EC66A0.BA726D8D@bigfoot.com>
>Most of it's in 4/4 time, a time sig >that's fairly beat into people in the "Western" world and thus is quite easy >to play in, and the beats used in rock are usually simple. duh duh DUH duh
I have nothing against Craig, King of Craigland and all Her imperial satellites of love.
But this is something that's been annoying me for some time. I don't get it! Why was 4/4 "beat into people", particularely us moronic "Western" people? Did the music industry just decide, one day, that 4/4 would be the rule? And if so, why? They must've had a reason.
I think it's much more accurate to say 4/4 is naturally, genetically, a 'catchy' time sig. It's not in an industry's favor to force things on consumers that they wouldn't naturally gravitate to. No profit there.
Why would 4/4 so successful if we weren't already programmed to like it? If we were really meant to listen to 15/7 and 8/3 alternating every third measure, why wouldn't they just use that to make all the songs?
-- Joshua Rasiel jrasi@bigfoot.com www.j51.com/~mrasiel Churchill's description of history: "It's just one damn thing after another."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 01:51:23 -0000 From: "Antony Gelberg" <antony@antgel.demon.co.uk> To: <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: Re: Ringo again - no DTC Message-ID: <001301be6e86$5575a940$5b50dec2@antgel.demon.co.uk>
Just felt the need to reply to this:
>if you look at old beatles' album notes you'll notice that the songs are >all spliced up like "first verse 9th take on day 3, 2nd verse 5 take on >day one, etc".. and you'd never know listening to it >and taking into consideration the fact that they didn't have click >tracks and the technology we do, you can say anything you want about >ringo, but i don't know too many drummers who can go into a studio day >after day and keep the EXACT tempo they did the day before..
I think you will actually find that Ringo actually slows down and speeds up during songs anyway, such was his lack of talent. Maybe a drummer on this list can confirm / deny this
--- Antony
Email: antony@antgel.demon.co.uk or gelberga@dcs.kcl.ac.uk
ICQ: 26767777
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Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:57:20 -0700 From: Vincent LuPone <vgl@syspac.com> To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: Type O Positive ;-) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19990314185719.006c3fd4@pop02.syspac.com>
At 03:26 PM 3/14/99 -0800, IceQd@aol.com wrote: >Ice wants Johnny Kelly and Peter Steele for a threesome ...
Johnny Kelly? Isn't that Johnny Dangerously's real name?
:)
~Vince
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:12:11 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@axnet.net Subject: Re: more on the drum debate Message-ID: <199903150212.SAA04617@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Phil Carter thus begged: > > >Mosh pisses me off so much because he continues to spout his opinions as >fact. The single intelligent thing I've heard from him so far on this >matter is right here: >>sloppier than a 2 dollar whore on Saturday night... Measure it with a >>metronome... > >Good god, an actual way to MEASURE Lars' competence. Hm. Maybe Doc does >have something useful to say after all. >
I always say useful stuff... you just gotta read between the lines!! You're so reactionary to someone pissing on Lars that you fly off the handle... I'm gonna say something useful now.
LARS FUCKING SUCKS ASS AND METALLICA *IS* THE DEFINITION OF A SELLOUT BAND.
If you read between the lines just now... you'd go out and find facts that support that factual statement above. :) But again, there are those who deny the obvious and try to obscure that which is factual... those people are the ones living in denial, living in a fantasy, blind to the fact that their favorite popsicles have melted in the heat. :)
-The Doc
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 06:06:00 +0200 From: "xxx" <hipodilski@usa.net> To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@axnet.net> Subject: re: Friedman & Becker Message-ID: <01be6e99$2299a9a0$0b08e6c3@poebko>
Hi all, First, sorry for the MIME shit on my last post. It won't happen again. Look what I found on Jason Becker's homepage:
<< Dragon's Kiss Marty Friedman plays all lead, rhythm and bass guitars, with guest solos by Jason Becker, and Deen Castronovo on drums. "Beautiful guitar and drumming. I remember fighting with Marty over who would get to have 'Jewel' on their CD. We bet on a Redskin-49er game. Damn Redskins won! So he got 'Jewel'. Marty is a genius." >>
Ptacek is right: "...heavily collaborative efforts..."
Victor
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 4742 **************************
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