YTSEJAM Digest 4859
Today's Topics:
1) 3 posts
by "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
2) Speakers and such
by "Raitz" <raitz@cafe.ee>
3) speakers
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
4) Re:Speakers and such...
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
5) Sterios
by "Simon John Dodd" <S.J.Dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk>
6) Re: Sterios
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
7) Re: Re: Dali's Dilemma today
by "Trevin Wagner" <trevin@apexmusic.com>
8) Re: Dali's Dilemma today
by Carlos Alfaro <prog@yunque.net>
9) Sounds nice, anyways
by Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
10) them spocks dudes, they're like cool and stuff
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
11) Re: Slowing down guitar tracks
by "Cassiano P. Barbosa" <cassi.b@uol.com.br>
12) Ciga Humidors and Accessories At Low Prices
by webmaster@humidorcentral.com
13) Music
by Compadre32@aol.com
14) Re: The Phantom Menace
by Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk>
15) DT 3D-info
by "Simon Long Krogh" <finn2@get2net.dk>
16) star wars-no spoilers/other bs
by Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@yahoo.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 03:06:58 EDT
From: "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: 3 posts
Message-ID: <19990521070658.2965.qmail@hotmail.com>
sorry about the 3 posts crap...my button was stuck
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:31:52 +0300
From: "Raitz" <raitz@cafe.ee>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Speakers and such
Message-ID: <199905210731.KAA15089@ns.uninet.ee>
> From: "Paul Evans" <paul.evans@esltd.com>
> wh= at the engineers intended? Somebody else (sorry, don't remember)
> suggested the = only way to achieve this is to get some super high end
> flat response monitors, which I agree with. But your stereo itself
Studio monitors are not for home use. First of all, they're designed to be
used in studios. They're very accurate, indeed, but that's that. Their
sound is dry. I think Al would do a better job explaining it. Want to
check out some really kickass speakers? Follow the URL and see for
yourself: http://www.merlinmusic.com/vsm.htm
Anyway, I really do have a hard time trying to take someone seriously when
that someone tells me in one long breath that (s)he's an audiophile and
listens to good progressive music AND had to turn off the megabass when
listening to "Burning My Soul". Hey, turning it on was only the second
mistake you made. Your first was that you bought the boombox that even has
the option. :-)
Do not click here to continue.
Raitz
Be reasonable --
demand the impossible!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:56:21 -0700
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: speakers
Message-ID: <E04FDFCFDC87D21194D300A0C9D4BAFA0F4203@ms.kallback.com>
> > Get busy and try this!!! Any feedback would be welcomed.
> [What if I put my speakers from my Sony mini system on top of my
> [entertainment center and sit on the couch, would that work? :)
> No. Smaller speakers need to be AT ear level. Keep them OFF book
> shelves and away from other furniture. Try making temporary stands
> with a pair of chairs and a stack of books. Make sure the face of the
> speaker has NOTHING directly below it, in other words: The speaker
> baffle should be the closest thing to you, not part of the stand.
> Also, with small speakers you need to keep the distances small.
> I would recommend four feet between them. Therefore, the listening
> area should also be four feet from each speaker.
Well, I was actually being facetious, but thanks for the advice anyway.
I think I'll try it!
Question to all:
Would it be better to have 1500 cds and a $500 stereo or
100 cds and a $35,000 stereo?
~Trevor
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 02:59:28 -0500
From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re:Speakers and such...
Message-ID: <37451260.2B1DFBBA@isd.net>
Paul Evans wrote:
>Hey Al,
>pardon my ignorance, but your point seems to be that the best
>way to hear music is in it's purest form, thru a flat system. Now,
>aren't most stereo systems and speakers hyped anyway - so that
>what your hearing still may not be what the engineers intended?
You're on the right track. But my point was: Shit speakers are bad
enough; The use of EQs in the hands of the ignorant only compounds
the problem.
>Somebody else (sorry, don't remember) suggested the only way to
>achieve this is to get some super high end flat response monitors,
That's only one third of the equation. The acoustical properties of the
room and placement of the speakers need to be tailored for proper audio
reproduction. Good components need to be used in order to reveal the
what the speakers are capable of. Shit in, shit out. A system is only as
good as it's weakest component.
Make the best of what you have through the application of some simple
acoustical theories. (proven ones) This will provide the biggest return to
cash spent ratio.
>which I agree with. But your stereo itself may also be hyped...
Absolutely! Unfortunately, unless your shopping at a REAL hi-end shop,
your more than likely never going to see gear that's worth spending
your hard earned coin on. Superstores don't carry hi-end gear, it requires
the staff to have paramount knowledge of what they are selling and it's proper
implementation. I'm sorry, but "paramount knowledge" and Best Buy don't
belong in the same sentence. For most, a browse through a hi-end store
impresses the hell out of them... Then the sticker shock sends them running
in fear. Afraid that if they hang around long enough, they'll talk themselves
into spending the first born's college fund and getting a second mortgage.
I didn't do it that way. I started back in 1976 (at 14 years old) with a Pioneer
receiver, Toshiba cassette, BSR turntable, Crown "Prince" reel-to-real and
some OK 12" three-way speakers. From there I upgraded one component
at a time. By 1984 The system had grown to a Hafler DH-500 amp, Hafler
DH-110 preamp, JVC LF-66 turntable W/Ortofon LM-30 cartridge, JVC
KDD4 cassette deck, Onkyo tuner, and my first multi-thousand-dollar piece
of gear, my Revox A77 mk IV reel-to-reel recorder. I'd gone through several
speaker configurations over that time period. Later that year I acquired my
beloved Altec Lansing 515B drivers and the Unit Laboratories bass horn
enclosures. This bass horns are still in use today in my main system. every
other driver in the system has changed since then. The Revox gear also still
resides in the system.
Building a good system takes time. (unless your rich) Upgrade the component
that is less likely to fall victim to early obsolescence. And so on...
Back to my point... (like I had one:) Applying bad listening techniques to an
already compromised system is depriving yourself of some great listening
experiences.
>Arrrrggghhh!
Yup.
>But anyway, thanks for the speaker placement tips. They work.
Don't stop there! Get the measuring tape out and get the distances EXACT.
Make sure the speaker angles are symmetrical. You want larger speakers
aimed about one foot out of the corresponding ear, smaller ones aimed right
at the corresponding ear. Play with the distances and angles. DON'T listen
to just one song or song fragment, listen to several. Recordings drastically
differ, one scheme may sound great on one recording and shitty on everything
else, or the opposite. Don't do to much at once, this will only confuse you.
As you approach the "Sweet spot" you'll need to space your fine tuning over
several days as your ears don't always perform the same from day to day.
(Water in ears, exposure to loud noise, wax build up, atmospheric pressure,
stoned/straight and so on:) The first thing to shoot for is a three dimensional
sound stage. Monophonic and stereo signals with equal amounts of information
in each channel should appear to come from a phantom center speaker.
Most vocals should be centered and give the illusion of a ghost sound stage
directly in front of you. This is where aiming is critical. Once the aiming is correct,
the speakers should disappear in the room. The sound stage should appear to be wider and
deeper than the room.
The room: Here's where things get ugly... If you can clap your hands and
hear a report, your room needs major help. It's too damn hard. (A.K.A., live)
Uncarpeted floors make the worst listening rooms. Thick carpet, thick
curtains and wall treatments will be needed to tame the room down.
Larger rooms are much better. At 20 Hz it takes 60 feet for a sine-wave
to form. This is unrealistic for most (myself included) so the "bigger is
better" mindset applies here. Rectangular rooms generally work best, odd
shaped rooms are a acoustical nightmares, reflections and refractions are
really unpredictable in L shaped rooms or with any other strange room geometry.
I've found it's best if the room can be sealed off from the rest of the house.
I was lucky enough to buy a house with a unfinished basement. I built a
24'x14' room that's closed off from the rest of the house via the entry door,
thick carpet over solid concrete, thick window curtains, and two 4'x5' acoustic
wall panels that are placed at the back walls slightly behind me. They are 8'
apart with the listening area (couch) centered between them. The speakers
are aimed between the listeners ears and the panels. This cancels reflections
from the back wall. If not for the panels, the sound would bounce off the back
wall and return to the my ears 180 degrees out of phase, causing phase
distortion, phase cancellation, and some serious time domain errors.
THIS SHIT DOES MATTER! Anyway, this is getting L O N G.
Yeah...
In case your interested in looking at some entry to mid level high-end gear,
I'll include a few links.
www.adcom.com
http://mcnaur.com/bwprod.html
http://www.bryston.ca/
http://www.calaudio.com
http://www.nhthifi.com/
http://www.paradigm.ca/
http://www.rotel.com/
Here's a link with links to almost every high-end, mid-fi and consumer
grade manufacturer on the planet.
http://www.smr-home-theatre.org/Manufacturers-Links/
BTW, Rotel separates are a *best buy* for a budget audiophile.
--
Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist
^
Switchcraft Microsystems
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Chrysler Corporation is adding a new car to its line to honor Bill Clinton.
The Dodge Draft will begin production in Canada later this year.
Sorry, I had to use that one at least one more time. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 12:18:34 +0100
From: "Simon John Dodd" <S.J.Dodd1@student.derby.ac.uk>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Sterios
Message-ID: <199905211124.MAA00363@mail1.derby.ac.uk>
We're going to have to conceed the point to Al, folks. Because what
he's saying is basically the same as all of us saying "Those people
who only like bubblegum pop / Marilyn Hanson / whatever shit's
making our ears bleed this week* (*delete where applicable) don't
know any better, because they've never been exposed to quality
audio". Dream Theater, as far as we're concerned. Same as us
poor sods who just don't know what quality audio sounds like, 'cos
we've never worshiped at Al's Altar of a setup.
Al also told us how much to spend on our sterio. Also, to pre-empt
someone saying "$10,000 is a lot for a sterio". Well, most people
on this list are musicians, and if they had the cash, they wouldn't
even blink at spending $10,000 on their guitar rig / drum kit.
Si
-------------------------------------------------------
"When a man lies, he murders some part of the world
These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives
All this I cannot bear to witness many longer;
Cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home?"
-Cliff Burton
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 07:21:11 -0600
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Sterios
Message-ID: <001c01bea38c$cef71200$630d84d0@korgx3>
>poor sods who just don't know what quality audio sounds like, 'cos
>we've never worshiped at Al's Altar of a setup.
Well, Al IS 100% right about speaker placements and equip. Don't discern it
as poppycock or anything. Almost any brochure, pamphlet, book, etc. dealing
with audio will recommend speaker placements exactly as Al stated. Speakers
at ear level, forming a perfect equilateral triangle with the listener. It
does make a difference in the sound quality.
I dunno about the EQ's though... I will agree that a flat sound will give
you the most authentic reproduction of the original recording, but I do so
much enjoy increasing the bass and making things thump a little harder. :)
Poppycock.
--
KorgX3 thinks about you and touches himself. Whoah oh oh.
NP: Spock's Beard - Day for Night.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 09:20:47 -0500
From: "Trevin Wagner" <trevin@apexmusic.com>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Re: Dali's Dilemma today
Message-ID: <001801bea395$2024f4a0$8184e5cf@wagners>
>> most apparent when "Whispers" goes into "Ashen Days" that the
>> recording was not given that finishing touch.
>
>What "finishing touch" is it missing?
Not that it's *missing* anything. It's a great, thick sounding record.
Where mastering smooths out all the levels and frequencies post-mix, that
was my initial thought since I find myself turning it up to hear "Whispers".
Although it's a beautiful, quiet piece, it shouldn't be a "whisper" dB-wise.
Possibly just the keyboard player in me.
And to all the keyboardists on the list, Matt Guillory's soloing , IMO, is
some of--if not *the*-- freshest, coolest stuff around today. You'll love
the sweep arpeggios!! GO GET THIS!
>The album was mastered at Prarie Sun Studios, by the way.
But the liners don't say that. And I was hoping one of the Cali Crew would
know. Thanks, Rick.
Trevin Wagner
Chicago
"Words twist too often..."
-Can't You See, Dali's Dilemma
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 10:40:33 -0400
From: Carlos Alfaro <prog@yunque.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Dali's Dilemma today
Message-ID: <37457060.CBE522D3@yunque.net>
Trevin Wagner wrote:
> And to all the keyboardists on the list, Matt Guillory's soloing , IMO, is
> some of--if not *the*-- freshest, coolest stuff around today. You'll love
> the sweep arpeggios!! GO GET THIS!
>
Hell yes! He is awesome..i havent been blown away by a keyboardist like this
since the first time i heard Jordan rudess, and i think i prefer Guillory's
style and sounds (how about that fresh use of Dereks lead sound huh?). Maybe
because its more agressive and less "floaty" than JR's and ive always been a fan
of agressive sounding keyboards... in any case.. Dalis Dilemma is a MUST
buy...even tho there are some things weve all heard before in other bands..but i
cant really put my finger on it..but theres Something here that makes it sound
fresh, and very welcomed...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 15:00:24 +0000
From: Jon Parmet <jon@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Sounds nice, anyways
Message-ID: <37457508.F36@parmetpc.volpe.dot.gov>
Raitz:
> unaltered sound. Some may argue that "I have to compensate the
> shortcomings of those lousy speakers I have got here",
I once compensated for the shortcomings of a lousy speaker I found in an
old transistor radio. Remember those that were about the size of a
playing card, took a 9V battery and had the partially recessed knobs on
the side? It was somewhere around a .2W speaker (yes, that's a decimal
point in front of the 2).
I hooked a 70W Dynaco Tube amp (mono) up to it; and as I cranked it up,
the anode looked over at the cathode and said "This one's gonna be easy,
Cathy :)". As the little puppy blew its shit with smoke everywhere, I
began jumping up and down like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon after he took
out the cantelevered house :)
> but the truth of the matter is that, that ANY set of speakers sounds
> better if the sound is not altered in any way,
I'm not sure if this is still true, but for years James B. Lansing made
studio monitors (can't remember the model #) that were regarded as THE
best monitor because they were the flatest speaker made, i.e. they
reproduced the original sound the closest. You can always go in during
post and alter EQ till your fingers bleed if you want, but when you're
laying down the tracks you want to hear what you're actually playing,
not what some sound bozo thinks sound cool.
Disclaimer: I don't work for JBL, but I like their speakers :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 08:28:44 PDT
From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: them spocks dudes, they're like cool and stuff
Message-ID: <19990521152845.86995.qmail@hotmail.com>
went to see spocks last night, with tiles opening.....got there around 6:30
(8 pm doors) because i was supposed to meet up with someone and grab a bite
to eat beforehand.....they don't show up 'til 7:45 (hi Joe :)
not a problem, cuz i see Chris Herin, and Jeff Whittle of Tiles, and
bascially kill nearly an hour shooting the shit with Jeff and this guy who
came up from Cleveland.....tried to follow Jeff into Spocks sound check,
didn't get too far, but i did see 'em for a few seconds of preview...
forgot to mention that i met Ryo (keys) beforehand, and he told me that
after four shows (this would be their fifth), they were *tight*....would
have met and talked to the other spocks guys beforehand as well, since we
were standing at the back door to the club and they walked in and out a
couple times before the soundcheck....expect for the fact that i didn't know
what they looked like....Ryo was easy....him being japanese and all ;)
only negative of the night (other than all the cigarette smoke still
infesting my clothes) was the fact that, idiot that i am, i forgot to take
the little disposable camera that i'd bought into the place after the doors
opened, and got hit with a no re-entry policy....asswipes
anyway, as for the show, tiles rocked, and then spocks proceeded to have the
most fun i've ever seen anyone have on stage, consequently making it the
most enjoyable show i've been to
they played the two songs i most wanted to hear, and after the show, the
band came and hung out near the Merchandise table signing stuff,
talking.....they didn't quite play up until midnight, so i didn't get the
charge on seeing spocks play on my birthday....but like i said, after the
show, after midnight this morning, they came out and so i got to spend the
first moments of my 25th year of existence in the company of the bearded
ones....can't get much cooler than that :)
the place wasn't too full, and because seats were available, everyone was
seated, so the energy level of the crowd wasn't as good as it could have
been, but from the way they played and acted you couldn't tell,
really.....afterward, Dave Meros, bassist, was pretty dismissive of the
crowd, the venue, solos in general (everyone took a turn in the spotlight
except for him) and was kinda a wet blanket, but other than that, the band
were a bunch of nice guys who genuinely seemed to have a good time
performing up on stage, and that's what the best shows are made of......
and this was one hell of a show
partha
ps: just because i know you all want to know....i ended up grabbing a burger
at the Wendy's down the street
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 14:37:44 -0300
From: "Cassiano P. Barbosa" <cassi.b@uol.com.br>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Slowing down guitar tracks
Message-ID: <374599E8.52C04705@uol.com.br>
Frank Benenati wrote:
> Hey Folks,
>
> I remember reading a post, sometime back. About a piece of software
> that'll slow down a wav or mp3, without altering the pitch of the song.
>
> Does anyone remember what that software was??? If so, can you email me?
Check out this section of Harmony Central (if you're using a Windows
platform):
<http://www.harmony-central.com/Software/Windows/audio_processing.html>
There you'll find around 3 programs that may do what you want...
Hope this helps!
Cassiano
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 11:54:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: webmaster@humidorcentral.com
To: webmaster@humidorcentral.com
Subject: Ciga Humidors and Accessories At Low Prices
Message-ID: <199905211854.LAA15668@knight.axnet.net>
Welcome,
I want to tell you about Humidor Central. We offer quality humidors and cigar accessories at discount prices. All our humidors are top quality and come with a 60 day money back gaurentee. We have many different styles and many prices ranges from $49.99 - $149.99. We deal direct to the customer so our overhead is low. This is how we bring you these unbelivable prices. We also have a full line of cigar accessories at discount prices.
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Humidor Central
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 17:06:36 EDT
From: Compadre32@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Music
Message-ID: <818e8811.247724dc@aol.com>
All i have to say is that REAL music comes from the heart, not $300,00.00
speakers and equipment.
Amen brotha compadre,
Compadre32
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 22:55:27 +0100
From: Gary Cleghorn <gary@tequila.demon.co.uk>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: The Phantom Menace
Message-ID: <K6jGeDAPZdR3Ewf5@tequila.demon.co.uk>
In article <26a4cfa9.24739e93@aol.com>, DTdownload@aol.com writes
>
>DARTH MAUL DIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
FECK OFF YOU TWAT , If you ever come near my part of the world i promise you'll
get the biggest Geordie sandwich* ever known to mankind.
*Translation= a smack in the mouth.
--
Gary Cleghorn
Ytsejam Photo Gallery at http://www.tequila.demon.co.uk/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 03:13:40 +0200
From: "Simon Long Krogh" <finn2@get2net.dk>
To: "The Ytsejam Mailinglist" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: DT 3D-info
Message-ID: <001301bea3f0$5649aca0$37cd52c3@flskesteg>
Hi, there! first of all, I would like to thank you for all the positive
response on my DT3D-art. Second of all, i would like you all to know that
without Angelo Lombardi ( Angelo13@home.com ) the pics would never have seen
the light of day, since he provided me with the majesty-symbol in raw .3DS.
A final request: the first six pictures were the results of some ideas I had
kept in my mind for ages. Now, it seems as if I'm sort of running dry. In
other words: please, if you have some cool ideas for some new designs, let
me know!
well, that seems to be about it. I promise that I'll try to do some more
3Darts in the following week.
Take care now, bye-bye then
Simon Krogh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 20:49:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Pat Daugherty <pdaugher@yahoo.com>
To: DT list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: star wars-no spoilers/other bs
Message-ID: <19990522034919.12529.rocketmail@web120.yahoomail.com>
First off, Star Wars doesn't belong on here in the first place, so everyone
who has seen it or whatever just shutup and keep it off here.
I ordered Dali's disc but it wont be sent due to CDNow waiting for the Ice
Age disc to be released. What a crock...
>>[- Chris
>>[-Who just got the K&N air filter for his Avenger, more than a year after
>Al
>>[told him what could be done to beef up his car
>Well???? Does it pull harder and sound more authoritative?
Didn't do diddly for my car (1990 Mustang)...
===
|----------------------------------------------------------------|
| Pat Daugherty Email: pdaugher@yahoo.com |
| Web : http://www.abs.net/~patnbeck/pat/pat.html |
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| "Every breath leaves me one less to my last" --Dream Theater |
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------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4859
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