YTSEJAM Digest 4866
Today's Topics:
1) Ketchup
by "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
2) Taste? No Taste?
by "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
3) Malmsteen and Floyd
by Brian Lundy <Styles@injersey.com>
4) Re: Ketchup. EQ.
by "Pat Sullivan" <psull@ici.net>
5) Reviews (from N. Gallop)
by Younis Hilal <yhilal@cds.caltech.edu>
6) Yngwie!
by DWilk46577@aol.com
7) Cllinic drum yesterday in Quebec City
by "Richard James" <richard@capitale.qc.ca>
8) Hmmm...
by Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
9) Re: Ketchup. EQ.
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
10) Stereo stuff
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
11) Guitar Effects (NTDC)
by Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
12) That Stevie Vai - such a nice little boy
by "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
13) frozen reaction
by "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 07:07:48 -0700
From: "Trevor W. Hoit" <TrevorW@ms.kallback.com>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Ketchup
Message-ID: <E04FDFCFDC87D21194D300A0C9D4BAFA0F4246@ms.kallback.com>
> Ketchup. EQ. Ketchup. EQ.
>
But if you take that supposedly perfect mix/dish
to a different, equally revered producer/chef, he
most likely would say he could improve it.
Throwing fuel on a dead horse,
Trevor-
who doesn't care how eggs are supposed to taste,
he's still putting salsa on them.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:12:59 -0400
From: "Giannotti, Nick" <GiannottiN@hanscom.af.mil>
To: "'ytsejam@ax.com'" <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Taste? No Taste?
Message-ID: <390762D98D63D2118C280060081358CC8F522D@hamsxha2.hanscom.af.mil>
>Is it a matter of taste? No, there's no such thing. There's only a
matter
>of having taste and not having it. Cut + dry.
So if my tastes differ from yours, does that mean I have no taste?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 11:33:43 -0700
From: Brian Lundy <Styles@injersey.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Malmsteen and Floyd
Message-ID: <374C3E87.EFA39B7D@injersey.com>
Hello all,
Thought I'd throw my $.02 in about some of the current topics.
1.) Malmsteen also appears on "Dragon Attack", the Queen tribute
album. If memory serves, I believe he's the lead guitarist on "Keep
Yourself Alive". Of course, James, JP, and Porn-toy also appear.
2.) Pink Floyd ARE in the R-n-R Hall of Fame. The display is, of
course, a rather large Wall dedicated to them.
Anyone know what criteria there is to get in to the RnR? It's WAY about
time for our 3 favorite Canadians to be in there. I signed a petition
to this fact last year, and the year before that. Any news?
Styles
"Listen to my Music, Hear what it can do.
There's something here that's as strong as Life.
I know that it will reach you!!!"
2112
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:35:56 -0400
From: "Pat Sullivan" <psull@ici.net>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Re: Ketchup. EQ.
Message-ID: <199905261634.MAA03338@bajor.ici.net>
> being the customer, politely thank him, say how much you appreciate all
> the extra miles he went, and subsequently drown the chef d'oeuvre in
> ketchup.
>
> Ketchup. EQ. Ketchup. EQ.
I don't think that's the best possible analogy. For example, I've had
clam chowder at a lot of restaurants. Some very *good*
restaurants. Some rather *good* clam chowder. But, bad customer
that I am, I generally add some black pepper to the recipe. Why?
Because I believe that there is no one recipe that *everyone* will
like. Why do you think they put all those condiments on the table?
> Is it a matter of taste? No, there's no such thing. There's only a matter
> of having taste and not having it. Cut + dry.
Unfortunately, I am not an engineer, and sometimes I don't agree
with what an engineer calls "perfect" sound. When I listen to I&W, I
tend to push the bass up a little, so that I can make a desperate
attempt to hear JM in the mix. In doing so, am I telling the engineer
that mixed it to piss off? You bet I am.
I just can't agree with what you and Al appear to be saying, which
is either "Every album ever recorded was mixed perfectly", or
"Sound engineers are perfect, you are required to trust their
judgement".
___Pat Sullivan_____________________________________
Email: psull@ici.net
ICQ: 23499229 AIM: TOWHTSTS
WWW:__ http://home.ici.net/~psull/psull.html _______
Computer analyst to programmer: 'You start coding.
I'll go find out what they want.'
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 10:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Younis Hilal <yhilal@cds.caltech.edu>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Reviews (from N. Gallop)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.96.990526101444.16489B-100000@morris.cds.caltech.edu>
New reviews from Neil.
Enjoy.
Younis Hilal------------------------yhilal@cds.caltech.edu
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Gallop, Neil wrote:
> Hi all
>
> here are the reviews I promised a few days ago. Doom,
> stoner/desert, black and plain weird.
>
> ANATHEMA - Judgement (Music For Nations - CDMFN 250)
>
> It's almost a sin to try and describe this album.
> Perhaps you should approach it the way I first heard
> it last week - my CD dealer put the obligatory cold beer
> in my hand, sat me down, put the headphones on my head
> and told me to "just listen", without telling me who
> it was. I identified it as Anathema almost immediately,
> but I didn't care who it was. I simply floated away for
> an hour (well, 57 minutes), totally immersed in some of
> the most beautiful and melancholy music I have ever
> heard. Anathema have become softer again, and hardly
> any "hardcore" doom elements are left, but this album
> is still very doomy and moody, very sad and desperate.
> When I heard that Duncan Patterson (who did a lot of
> the writing) had left, I was a bit apprehensive about
> how the band would develop - I needn't have worried. The
> songs are the best so far, the whole album flows and is
> very coherent. Vince Cavanagh's vocal performance
> should be sufficient to convince anybody that he is the
> real vocalist for the band (and not grunting Darren
> White). Try and imagine what it would sound like if
> Pink Floyd had made a "soft doom" album after Dark Side
> Of The Moon - that's what "Judgement" is. The sound is
> unmistakably Anathema, with the typical sustained
> guitars, well dosed acoustic passages and very melodic
> and powerful keyboard passages. My personal favourites
> are "One Last Goodbye" and "2000 & Gone" which is almost
> like a cover of Floyd's "Us And Them". If you liked
> "Alternative 4", "Eternity" or "The Silent Enigma" you
> will certainly like this. And if you've not heard any
> Anathema before, just take a welcome break from reality
> and let yourself be taken over by the sombre and
> emotional beauty that is "Judgement". 10/10
>
> GOATSNAKE - I (Man's Ruin - MR 174)
>
> Pay attention class. Here's your maths lesson for today:
> Lynyrd Skynyrd + Sabbath + Kyuss = Goatsnake. OK?
> Crushing hard rock, ultra heavy riffs, monster jams,
> simple raw power and a singer who sounds like Ozzy and
> Ray Charles mated. This album can lead to increased
> consumption of cold beer and tequila. A very good first
> full length album from what is basically the rhythm
> section of The Obsessed. Call it southern doom if you're
> looking for a name. I just hope I will hear (and see)
> more of these guys in the future. 9/10
>
> HERBERT - Chrysalis (UglyPrettyLittleHead)
>
> I bought this on the basis of recommendations, and I'm
> very glad I did. This band plays a truely unique blend
> of progressive, metal, jazz, punk and thrash. The
> closest thing I have heard before is Tool (yes, they
> really are that good). Very tight, the songs shift
> and twist in unexpected directions and at unexpected
> moments. Complex and multi-layered, heavy and demanding,
> the songs feature some very cool riffs and lead guitar
> work, a very enigmatic singer and some of the sickest
> drum work since Tool's "Aenima". An album almost as
> unpredictable as quantum mechanics but a damn sight more
> enjoyable. This will probably be difficult to find, but
> hey, you owe it to yourself to get some good music and
> to support a very talented band. I got my copy through
> Meteor City. 9/10
>
> RED GIANT - Ultra-Magnetic Glowing Sound
> (Cambodia Recordings - CAM 007)
>
> Fans of bands like Fu Manchu and Monster Magnet should
> make room on their CD shelves for this album, which is
> a prime cut of psychadelic stoner rock. Songs that
> groove but are yet experimental, some nice spacy bits,
> and loads and loads of old guitar pedal effects, topped
> off by vocals that are undeniably very Fu Manchuesque.
> Sometimes acoustic guitars make a "guest appearance"
> which is a nice change on this sort of album. Overall,
> a stoner album that is almost easy listening. The duelling guitars almost
> remind me of Skynryd or even
> the Allman Brothers. Ideal music for feeling fine to,
> and well worth looking for. Lots of great guitar work
> and guitar sounds. 9/10
>
> SUMMONING - Stronghold (Napalm Records NPR060)
>
> Melodic black metal? Yup. So far I've liked everything
> Summoning have done (apart from the first album, which
> has to be one of the worst albums by any band ever).
> "Stronghold" is still typically Summoning, but in many
> ways more mature and varied that anything they have
> done before. The music is still very symphonic and
> majestic (mostly keyboards), and the vocals are still
> very black, but this time the guys have found out how
> to slow down the drum computer (excellent example of
> how to use one, incidentally), and they have also
> realized that guitars don't always have to be scrubbed
> and that the strings can actually be picked. This
> makes the album richer and more varied, with only a
> couple of high speed passages. I guess the songs are
> dark and gloomy (with titles like "The Rotting Horse
> On The Deadly Ground"), but you can't understand any
> of the wails and shreaks anyway. A fine example of
> how good black metal can be once it slows down a bit,
> and once you can get past the corpse paint and the
> blood-spitting penguin-clothed dickheads who populate
> the black scene. 9/10
>
> UNIDA/DOZER - Split EP (Meteor City MCY-005)
>
> Unida is John Garcia's new band, and hence a must for
> all Kyuss fans. This guy's vocal style is unique, very
> powerful and simply kicks so much butt that even a
> concrete elephant would fall over. But Unida isn't
> just John Garcia - the other 3 guys all put in a solid
> desert/stoner performance, especially the guitarist.
> 4 rocking, grooving, dirty and dusty tracks to whet our
> appetite and tide us over until the full length album
> is released in the autumn. Pass me a cold 6 pack.
> Dozer sound like Kyuss without John Garcia, so they
> are an ideal counterpart to Unida. Especially the bass
> sounds like Scott Reeder used to. Also 4 songs that make
> me want to drive fast along the motorway in an open
> convertible, my arm hanging out of the window getting
> a thick layer of dead flies squashed to it, while my
> other arm alternates between holding the steering wheel,
> the gear shift, a cold can of beer and my girlfriends
> knee - get the picture? Just a shame the singer is a
> bit weak. Knock off 2 points. 8/10
>
> Feel free to contact me if you want any more info
> about any of the bands or albums mentioned.
>
> stay safe and happy listening
> Neil Gallop (neil.gallop@softwareag.com)
> Currently playing: Deep Purple - Made In Japan
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:15:56 EDT
From: DWilk46577@aol.com
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Yngwie!
Message-ID: <28c9aa6f.247d864c@aol.com>
I really like Yngwie, but I don't really care for the singing on some of his
albums. Can anyone tell me what albums besides Rising Force are mostly or
all instrumental?
Thanx...:-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:23:04 -0400
From: "Richard James" <richard@capitale.qc.ca>
To: <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Cllinic drum yesterday in Quebec City
Message-ID: <005e01bea79c$6aa83d60$4d0201a0@carme.capitale.qc.ca>
i arrived at 6:30 there about 100 persons there. when we waitong we heard
outside the sound check.
the door opened t 7:45.Mike arrrived at about 8:15 and the crowd really
enjoyed that moment. the bar
is packed .
the show begin wiTH a SOLO after that mike talk about is side project and
then he played Paradigmt Shift
the next one is a new one from lte2 and i'ts call Bioaccident after these
song we have a technical part
mike explain what is a 4/4 7/8 etc. after that we got the middle section of
metropolis part 1 with only
the drum part and then erotomania and hell's kitchen with the music and the
last part
is only on drum and it's a 40 drum beat of several songs that you can
recognize (most of it)
and then the question part ;
mike said that the next album will be the most progressive
he also said that we have to wait until the fall for the new album
and that the band was really impressed by the crowd reaction when
they toured
with Deep Purple last year (he said that was the best )
and the most interresting one that the band will he here on the
next tour and not in the first act
anbody who have a chance to see that clinic don't missed it . to heard that
kind of music in that bar
it was really special
rj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 12:42:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Christopher Ptacek <someone@enteract.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: Hmmm...
Message-ID: <199905261742.MAA23562@adam.enteract.com>
> From: "Blevins, Mike" <BlevinsM@amsc.belvoir.army.mil>
> Subject: A question for the Floyd Rose abusers around here...(NDTC)
> I'm looking at getting the newly - released "EVH" Drop-D tuner for a couple
> of my Floyd Rose guitars. I know I have to add a stabilizer to use this, so
> I was wondering if anyone out there has experience with either the Hipshot
> Trem-Setter or the WD Tremolo Stabilizer? Or will I have to resort to
> blocking?
I too would like to know how these work... very very interested in
how they affect the play in a trem, since one of my guitars is very off
balanced, in that respect. Please post to the jam, if you would, answer
person. :)
> From: Jim Shields <jimbob213@mail.utexas.edu>
> Subject: Current music/my influences/opinions
> I have not heard a single other band that has these sorts of
> influences. The big "rock bands" now like matchbox 20, etc, just suck, and
> I don't know where they came from. Bands like Korn, Incubus, and the
> others came from Faith No More and rap, which is a far cry from the stuff
> my band does (altho FNM rocks nads!). So where aer the bands with the same
> basic influences as us? Are we supposed to lead the next wave of rock?
> Have we hit upon a sound that is mostly untouched? I've heard very few
> bands with the power and crunch yet main-streaminess that we have. Maybe
> we're just in the wrong place, 'cause austin is a big roots rock/blues
> town, but still, we should at least find one or two other bands like us,
> seeing as how mainstream most of our influences are. what do you guys
> think?
I think you can't possibly mean to sound like you do in this
message. :) I just listened to your sound samples, and they're not bad.
I can hear WHOLE LOT ar AiC (which you will probably say is a STP
influence, but STP started out by ripping off one band and then moved to
another and another) and Pearl Jam in your music. Believe me, there are
plenty of bands that sound like this stuff. But you guys are decently
tight, and your singer is pretty on key... I can totally see some of my
students getting into this stuff. But all these harmony vocal things all
hearken back to AiC, and most of these riffs sound like SoundGarden/Pearl
Jam vibes.
Chris Ptacek - someone@prognosis.com
"Everything that can be invented has
been invented." -- Charles H. Duell,
Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:54:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Re: Ketchup. EQ.
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.3.96.990526134814.28437A-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Pat Sullivan wrote:
> I just can't agree with what you and Al appear to be saying, which
> is either "Every album ever recorded was mixed perfectly", or
> "Sound engineers are perfect, you are required to trust their
> judgement".
I have to say that I agree with this statement totally. I just finished
doing a musical in my theatre department. I mixed all the background
tracks myself, put them on minidisc, and handed them over to the engineers
who were mixing the sound board for the performances. They then proceeded
to murder the mix of the voices, so that my music was totally ruined in
the end.
What I'm saying is that if I weren't IN the show, I would have tried my
damndest to get to that sound board and choke the guy. He put Godawful
reverb in places, too much here, not enough there - he mixed some voices
WAY louder than others so that important voices got lost in some songs;
and in the sound board engineer fashion, he missed a LOT of entrances so
there wasn't ANY sound coming out when somebody was singing some important
entrance. If *I* were there at the board, that wouldn't have happened.
So what I'm saying is this: Because HE was hired to engineer the sound for
the show, does that mean that his opinion was the best possible opinion
for the performances? I mean, *I* knew the music forwards, backwards, and
inside out. Wouldn't you think that I might know what would go with it a
little better than he would?
So, as you can see, the hired engineer's opinion isn't always the best.
Just like the producer's opinion isn't always the best (remember those
voices at the end of LtL? They weren't supposed to be there, save for the
producer's opinion). The mix and EQ of the recording ARE subjective
things. Even a professional musician can't always say, "Now, look, this
is EXACTLY how I want my EQ settings." If an engineer really thinks that
it doesn't sound right, he'll change it. 'Nuff said.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
_Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
Once I wept for I had no shoes, and then I met a
man who had no feet. So I took his shoes. I mean,
it's not like HE needed them, right?
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:32:53 -0500
From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Stereo stuff
Message-ID: <374C3E55.A64B833F@isd.net>
William Hall wrote:
>As much as I'd like to place my speakers (all 6 of them) correctly,
All six? There is NO way to place them correctly, unless the six you are
referring to are separate cabinets for a 3-way stereo set. (bass, mid & hi)
How are you wiring that? If everything is paralleled, and the speakers are
8 ohm, that's a 2.66 ohm load! If they are wired in series, that's 24 ohms!
Either way, that's a load the amp was never designed to see. You can't run
them series+parallel, not with the odd number of three per side.
If you're running them parallel, your nuts! The 2.66 ohms is nominal impedance,
At crossover points they can dip much lower than that. I at least hope all
six speakers are exactly the same, otherwise you really have a unpredictable
load to drive when multiple crossover points from multiple crossover networks
are driven. If all your speakers ARE the same, you NEED to ditch two of
them in order to present the amplifier a more reasonable load to drive.
If they are 8 ohms each, parallel them; If they are 4 ohms, series them;
If there 6 ohms, you're fucked unless you buy an amp designed to work
well with low impedance electrostatic speakers, and you paralleled two of them.
Using three 6 ohm speakers would not work either in series or parallel.
It would appear to me that some fundamental rules are being violated.
>it's hard to do that with two desks, bunk beds, and dressers in my
>dorm room. So I settle for what lets live in my room. Not everybody
>has a room that they can use solely for music listening.
NO SHIT.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MusicSnob wrote:
>So, how many ytse-hoods want to know where Al parks his disco van so they can
>"relieve" him of his gear? ;-) Seriously, Al, you make me feel like a
Bring it on! I've had the air bag system tied to the security system and had
the cartridges filled with compressed beef gravy. I figured that would give the
dogs some additional incentive to retrieve your ass. :) My five year old Rott needs
no persuading, however, the 12 year old pit bull is getting a little lazy.
Oh yeah, the pit LOVES gravy!
>speaker pussy (not a pussy that speaks, mind you).
I've seen that movie! "Chatter Box" :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Raitz wrote: (that's a tounge twister)
>being the customer, politely thank him, say how much you appreciate all
>the extra miles he went, and subsequently drown the chef d'oeuvre in
>ketchup.
You hit the nail on the head! Right on, brother. :)
>Ketchup. EQ. Ketchup. EQ.
Unfortunatly, there's still some dork thinking.. "What's wrong with Ketchup?"
>Is it a matter of taste? No, there's no such thing. There's only a matter
>of having taste and not having it. Cut + dry.
You're pretty cool. We should like... party or something. :)
--
Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist
^
Switchcraft Microsystems
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:45:12 -0400
From: Frank Benenati <fmb@frontierlogic.com>
To: The flame Jam <ytsejam@axnet.net>
Subject: Guitar Effects (NTDC)
Message-ID: <374C4138.1F25AF1F@frontierlogic.com>
Hey Gang,
I've recently run into a bit of a dilemma. I currently own a Digitech
RP-5. It's a good little unit and, dare I say, it's been quite faithful
over the years. However, It seems that the unit doesn't do well in a
live or rehearsal situation. I'm guessing that my ears have either
matured over the years or the thing is dying on me. Basically, the unit
doesn't have a wide selection of applicable distortions and it's not
very warm and/or tonal.
I've been popping in and out of the message boards and have discovered
that the Zoom 505 seems to be THE stomper to get. However, most of the
fucks playing guitar nowadays would listen to Smells Like Teen Shit and
say "That's the tone I want". I would like to get something that has a
wide range of distortion phrasings, a solid set of modulation effects
and some good delays and verb.
I need some rather good opinions here. There's a whole bunch of units
(rack or stomp) that can do the job here, but I would prefer to get a
few opinions before I start doing the stomp-box dance at the local music
store.
-mojoman
/\ /\
\_\/_/
/ _ _ \
|\ \(*)(*)/ /|
#-----------------OOO- \oo/--OOO------------#
# Frank Benenati - fmb@frontierlogic.com #
# "Some of the nicest people are dogs" #
# - Richard Dean Anderson #
#__________________________ooo______________#
ooo (_)
(_)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 14:54:04 EDT
From: "J C" <outlander28@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: That Stevie Vai - such a nice little boy
Message-ID: <19990526185404.54964.qmail@hotmail.com>
That's the phrase Si, in all it's glory, off "Greasy Kids Stuff".
Boy it's good to be back on the list after a 9 month absence.
Rhys
Incorrect....the phrase"that nice nice music you were telling me about" is
from the "Audience is Listening" on Passion and Warfare
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 13:28:13 PDT
From: "Partha Mukhopadhyay" <ahtrap@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@axnet.net
Subject: frozen reaction
Message-ID: <19990526202813.26166.qmail@hotmail.com>
If anyone cares to see a review of the Ice Age disc, ask me
private-like....in short, its a decent disc, some really cool music, but
with the following two caveat: the singer tends to go overboard on the
dramatics on occasion, and the lyrics seem unfocused to me, they try to jam
too many ideas into each song (I could be wrong or misinterpreting)
apparently this band is pretty amazing live, so check 'em out
regardless.....
(and if you care to see a review of LTE2 or Tiles, again, mail me
private-like.....i'd appreciate if any of you who do so were to critique my
reviews, because I'm finding it far easier to review non-prog albums)
partha
>To celebrate the release of their debut CD on Magna Carta, Ice Age is
> >having a CD release party on Saturday May 29th(10:30PM), at the "All
> >Aboard Pub" in Lake Ronkonkoma, New York.
>There will be advance CDs available for sale.
_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 4866
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