YTSEJAM Digest 5165
Today's Topics:
1) SFaM stories and ending (long)
by Greg Hulse <ghulse@esc.net.au>
2) Re: horny toads
by JamesAhab@aol.com
3) sales info
by "Bill Huston" <HUSTON@iomega.com>
4) the old man is Victoria?
by JamesAhab@aol.com
5) Re: I figured out the ending to SFAM!!!!!!!!
by "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com>
6) Re: Queensryche
by Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com>
7) The storyline confirmed (well, not really)
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
8) Re: I figured out the ending to SFAM!!!
by "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com>
9) Re: SFaM mystery
by Raf <bimmered@yahoo.com>
10) Re: SFaM BACkGROUND SOUNDS and ART
by "Anderson, Brian D" <BAnderson@sdms.usa.xerox.com>
11) Re: SfaM In Japan
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
12) German charts
by Steffen Barabasch - The Mirror <TheMirror@dtifc.com>
13) Horns
by Chris Oates <coates@objy.com>
14) Re: I figured out the ending to SFAM!!!!!!!!
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
15) Re: SFaM stories and ending (long)
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
16) Got reincarnation?
by Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu>
17) Re: the old man is Victoria?
by Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net>
18) More ranting
by "Simon Dodd" <sjdodd80@hotmail.com>
19) Re: SfaM In Japan
by Jonathan D Willey <willeyatc@juno.com>
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Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 03:54:40 +1030
From: Greg Hulse <ghulse@esc.net.au>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: SFaM stories and ending (long)
Message-ID: <381F1E57.E2E0B7B1@esc.net.au>
> This is another thing that confused me. If he's supposed to be seeing scenes
> from Victoria's memory, then why is he also seeing scenes from Edward and
> Julian's memories, eg: "Home."
Now, here I think is where we are going wrong. Nick is seeing visions from
Victoria's life, as he says in SDV. He's not seeing anything from Ed or Julian's
life.
I think, maybe, we're not giving Nick enough credit here. I think he finds out a
lot outside of hypnosis. He's being haunted by his memories of Victoria's life
(SDV). His visions draw him to a house, and there he meets a man who tells him
about Victoria's murder (FT). Not getting enough answers, he digs a little
deeper, uncovering newspaper reports and what have you from 1928 (BTL). He visits
her grave and thinks he understands (THE), but still he doesn't have peace -
something just isn't right, but he can't figure out what (OLT). Eventually he
goes to a hypnotherapist for help (R). Under hypnosis, he is regressed to a point
where he sees how Victoria was killed (FF). Everything now makes sense to him,
and Victoria doesn't haunt him anymore - she too is at peace, now that the
mystery has been solved.
The intro to FF, with the hypnotherapist waking Nick, actually takes place after
the song itself, which was what Nick saw after the therapist told him "Now it is
time to see how you died." Beyond This Life can't take place after this line in
Fatal Tragedy, even if it is right after it on the CD - that isn't how Victoria
died. BTL is only a newspaper, FF is the real thing. If he's looking through
Victoria's eyes, he's going to see FF.
Basically, I think everything to do with Nick after Regression is there to tell
us the story leading up to him going to the hypnotherapist (not counting the bits
where the hypnotherapist is actually talking, obviously). The bits of the story
about Ed and Julian are told by them - the story actually jumps to the past so
that we can see what was going on back then. Nick might see some of it through
Victoria's eyes, but the actual story is told by the 1928 cast. Nick's regression
is really just a frame to put their story in.
Why put the story of the murder after he's woken up then? Well, it makes for a
more involving climax - having the revelation of how it all happened at the end
is far more interesting than us finding it all out, and then having to traipse
through him coming out of hypnosis. Besides, notice that the first few stages of
FF are in the past - really in the past, not just Nick seeing it. The 1928
characters are finishing their story. At the end, Nick finishes his story,
telling us how he's finally free because he now understands, thanks to the
regression he's just undergone.
So what happens after all that? I have no clue. I don't even know who it is
driving up in the car. There's no reason to think that it has to be Nick. When
whoever it is gets out of the car, their footsteps going up to the door sound
fairly brisk and solid. Once we get inside, the footsteps change - now they're
very slow, crunchy and deliberate. Until the end, when the first set of steps
returns and the therapist says "Open your eyes, Nicholas."
Two sets of footsteps? Probably. What's up with the crunching? It sounds like
they're outside, but they sure seem to be walking around making drinks, turning
off TVs and putting on records. Also, if the therapist is inside to start with,
waiting for Nick to turn up so that he can kill him, don't you think he's a
little relaxed about things? Do you really think that someone lurking in someone
else's house is going to watch a bit of TV and get themselves a drink? He seems a
little too comfortable for it to be the therapist waiting inside.
The other thing is the fade in of the music from FF when he's making a drink. If
it's the car pulling up, why don't we hear the car itself? All we hear is the
music - we don't hear the engine, or the car door closing.
I'm not sure what happens in here, but the TV report - "another tragedy in a long
string of misfortunes" - is too convenient to just be a date stamp. Victoria was
just one in a series of tragedies, and Nicholas will continue that sequence. Does
Nick die at the very end? Who knows - but if not, why doesn't he do something
about the record scratching?
Although, I have to say that killing someone because in a past life they were
someone who you didn't like in a past life is a pretty flimsy motive. I'm just
not buying the hypnotherapist-as-Ed-who-kills-Nick theory, guys.
--- "Do not search for all the answers at once. A path is formed by laying one stone at a time."g
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:32:41 EST From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: horny toads Message-ID: <0.fb1dcd4e.25507a39@aol.com>
In a message dated 11/2/99 8:36:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, ahtrap@hotmail.com writes:
<< >That horn section in BTL was kind of annoying, but that's it
i thought those were a nod to Trent Gardner/Magellan....not sure that they entirely fit, but I like 'em.... >>
That's exactly why I didn't like it...trent Gardner is one of the worst songwriters i've ever heard.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 09:35:08 -0700 From: "Bill Huston" <HUSTON@iomega.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: sales info Message-ID: <s81eb05d.091@royn20.iomega.com>
Last Tuesday when I went to buy SFaM at Media Play, they had 20 copies = out. And they were $17!! Next door, they were $14 at Circuit City. As far = as I know they only had the one copy, which I bought. Thursday, a friend I = work with went to go buy it and both places were sold out! Now this may = not sound very large but, I didn't think there were 20 people in this hick = town that even knew DT existed. This is cool! To you jammers in Ogden, Ut: = If you're reading this email me! I figured I was the only prog rocker in = town.
On another note: Who says this story is over? The 'ending' is so controvers= ial it leaves open ends that really aren't answered here. Based on this, I = believe there is a Met III. But it won't be a whole album, just one long = song maybe on the next album ala Met I to wrap this thing up. Any takers? = Anyway, that's my take on it. This sure is a fun CD to listen to because = of all the controversy, not to mention all the little bits and pieces of = previous stuff thrown in, tastefully.
Wilmo
NP: what, are you kidding? :>
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:41:07 EST From: JamesAhab@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: the old man is Victoria? Message-ID: <0.75b97fc4.25507c33@aol.com>
Bare with me for a moment. Imagine that after Victoria died, her soul was reincarnated the same year. Not saying reincarnation is immediate, for argument's sake, let's say this reincarnation was immediate. Let's also assume that Nicholas is in his early 20s (he can have a wife and kid in his early 20s). I think this is a slim possiblity. In Nick's regression, he visits the past (my best explanation for why a lot of the unexplainable stuff happens in his regression) and talks to the old man in FT. he trusts the old man right away. the old man can't be Edward. Maybe it's Julian, but suppose the old man is a reincarnation of Victoria, the one before Nick. he wouldn't be that old, middle 50s maybe, but he'd be old in 20-year old Nick's eyes.
Victoria dies reincarnated as old man old man dies reincarnated as Nick
Its a longshot, but I just like to put more fuel on the fire.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:01:40 -0500 From: "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: I figured out the ending to SFAM!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <001601bf255c$55aec800$bf98accf@rfbow>
>Listen to the end of FF and see if this narrative is plausible. What do you >guys think?
>Richie
I have to go back and listen a few more times with that scenario in mind, but I like that idea. Don't know if it's right or not of course :-) But, it does add a little bit more of a twist to the "cut scene" idea that one half of the ending is Nicholas outside the house and then the other half is the Hypno inside the house. Then they encounter each other. If you look at it your way, it does seem more like a movie scene...building tension as the camera cuts more rapidly back and forth between the killer and the victim. It also explains why there seem to be gravelly shoes *inside* the house--if it is really a cut to the *outside* of the house. There may be some problems with the whole thing, but it is a new idea :-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:05:12 -0600 From: Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Queensryche Message-ID: <19991102.120521.11702.0.Kurt.Hampton@juno.com>
Empire was their best selling album. It's also the most commercial. Here are short reviews of all their CD's: QR EP-Only get it after you get the rest. 80's cheese at it's finest. Great vocals, and the Lady Wore Black is a classic. Warning-Solid album, probably their heaviest, has two songs over six minutes, Take Hold of the Flame is a fan favorite. Rage For Order-As Chris Degarmo says "we had some really weird stuff on that one" Kller riffs. Weird songs also indeed. Don't let the way they look on the back cover scare you. Operation Mindcrime-Wow their masterpiece, also one of the best concept albums ever written. Eyes of a Stranger really rocks. Empire-see top Promised Land-good, solid, mellow, a lot of poeples favorite A lot of piano and a bit of sax. Really a great CD Hear in The Chris Frontier-Degarmo's solo album, with two bonus tracks written by other members of the band> kidding. I actually like this CD, but the consensus of everyone else hates it Very grungy sounding. Q2K-OK, don't flame, but my fav QR album. Songs are well written, teh sound is a little raw still, but Kelly Gray said this CD is a big jam session. The main song writerDegarmo quit, and they hired Gray. Now the other guys have a tendency to write more groovy stuff, you can bounce around to. And once SRock starts writing more, look out. He is Mr. Prog in that band. (Ever heard Televoid by him and Paul Spear)
Kurt- NP_Operation Livecrime _Ltd Ed. box set of Mindcrime live
"and though it leads to nowhere, you part debris and keep on going"-Doubledrive New Dream Theater "Scenes From a Memory" out In Stores NOW! "I don't know how the guys in Slayer are going to live past 40"-Paul Blocker See Queensryche on Tour this fall! www.queensryche.com for latest dates!
___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:04:37 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: The storyline confirmed (well, not really) Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911021302310.83616-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
I want to remind everybody that the album has only been released for 7 days. That's right; it may seem like it's been a lot longer - I only received my copy on Friday but I think I may have played it 20 or so times already, maybe more - it's only been a week. IF the boys of OFB are going to confirm any stories, it won't be for quite a while, so I'd prefer to think that whatever theories we have are great, but we won't know the TRUE answers for a while, if ever at all.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- "No one wants to fuck with a crazy person. If someone tries to mug you, The best thing you can do is take out your money, and piss on it while mumbling and ranting. Chances are, they'll get scared and leave you alone. Of course, you'll have to wash your money." - Norman Calkin, on urban survival -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:06:22 -0500 From: "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: I figured out the ending to SFAM!!! Message-ID: <000701bf255c$fdb24180$bf98accf@rfbow>
>Listen to the end of FF and see if this narrative is plausible. What do you >guys think?
>Richie
I have to go back and listen a few more times with that scenario in mind, but I like that idea. Don't know if it's right or not of course :-) But, it does add a little bit more of a twist to the "cut scene" idea that one half of the ending is Nicholas outside the house and then the other half is the Hypno inside the house. Then they encounter each other. If you look at it your way, it does seem more like a movie scene...building tension as the camera cuts more rapidly back and forth between the killer and the victim. It also explains why there seem to be gravelly shoes *inside* the house--if it is really a cut to the *outside* of the house. There may be some problems with the whole thing, but it is a new idea :-)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:06:11 -0800 (PST) From: Raf <bimmered@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM mystery Message-ID: <19991102180611.23179.rocketmail@web301.mail.yahoo.com>
Korg Wrote: >>that the girl on the cover of I&W is supposed to be a >>young Victoria, and when she is refered to in the
>Yeah, Edward is a pedophile that makes all the really >young girls moan >with >delight. ------ Yeah, sure...and there was a kiddy porn flick starting all three kids.....Ha! I'm just going on the notion that Ed The Miracle, Julian The Sleeper, and Victoria were all children during Met Pt.1...were they not?
Later, -Raf-
===== "Oh, we're having a wonderful time, Playing music for our friends!" jordan rudess, Dream Theater __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:26:20 -0500 From: "Anderson, Brian D" <BAnderson@sdms.usa.xerox.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: SFaM BACkGROUND SOUNDS and ART Message-ID: <BF85F885643CD21188230008C756293515E1FF@crte128-2.wrc.xerox.com>
> ====== > Finally, when the casino guy is talking from out of > the right channel, I HEAR HIM SAY the following while > Victoria is getting pounded. > "Who wants more, who want the hard core, who wants > more, who wants more, who wants hard core...who wants > to come" And THEN, JR rips into his solo. hence, > victoria has come....beeeeaauuutifuuuul! > > Later All, > -Raf- > > =====
Hello everyone, It's Brian! (man, I always wanted to do that). Anyway, I'm fairly certain that the dealer is saying "Who wants the hard four . . . " as in craps . . . he's asking who wants to place their bet on the hard four (which is rolling two two's if I'm not mistaken). He does say who want's to come . . . which is also a craps term.
I now know this after going to Vegas for the first time a few months ago. Anyway . . .
-Brian Anderson
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:34:44 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SfaM In Japan Message-ID: <199911021834.KAA12650@gms.gmsnet.com>
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Jonathan D Willey thus begged: > > > >> It will have a bonus CD with multimedia stuff and Metropolis 3 > >I don't think so??? MP and JP both were quoted as saying there are no >bonus tracks on the CD for japan. i think Mark bredius actually told us >in the Mirror list..... just what I heard.... geez, i would love to hear >Met 3 though!!! ;-)
Actually, it's gonna have Raise the Knife with vocals and a new track that was left out of SFAM called "The Revenge" which is supposed to be an insane instrumental.
;)
> >Jon > > >> At 06:18 AM 5/10/99 -0700, Emerson, Michael J. wrote: >> > >> >Has anyone posted anything regarding the Japanese release of the >> new album? >> > >> >Do we know yet whether or not it will have bonus tracks? >> > >> >If someone could let me know soon, I'd appreciate it, as I'd like >> to alter >> >my CDNow advance order (if necessary). >> > >> > >> >mikE >> >____________________________________________________________ >> > >> > >> >> --- >> >> >> Alan Estrada Adler, ICQ #9267174 Monterrey, Mexico >> -------------------------------------------------------- >> http://welcome.to/thenetdom > >ytseJon > >Jonathan Willey, ATC >WSU > >___________________________________________________________________ >Get the Internet just the way you want it. >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
-The Doc
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 19:42:00 +0100 From: Steffen Barabasch - The Mirror <TheMirror@dtifc.com> To: Ytsejam <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: German charts Message-ID: <v04220800b444e07ab8d9@[192.168.1.1]>
>just thought you might like to know that "Scenes From A Memory" has >just entered the German album charts (as determined by World Of >Music on the basis of current sales) at number 4.
Actually that's not the official charts (Media Control) but "only" the sales charts of one of the biggest music store chains. But it seems to be selling like hot cakes here anyway!
Steffen -- Steffen Barabasch (mailto:TheMirror@dtifc.com) THE MIRROR - deutscher Dream Theater Fanclub (http://www.dtifc.com/themirror)
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 11:10:13 -0800 From: Chris Oates <coates@objy.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Horns Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991102111013.00b4b7f0@objypop>
Partha Sed:
>>That horn section in BTL was kind of annoying, but that's it > >i thought those were a nod to Trent Gardner/Magellan....not sure that they >entirely fit, but I like 'em....
More likely it's a tribute to Emerson, who used synth horn patches a lot.
~Chris
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 13:25:21 -0600 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: I figured out the ending to SFAM!!!!!!!! Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991102192521.015bf8c0@pi-r-squared.com>
CUT TO THE INSIDE: Nicholas pours himself a >drink. CUT TO THE OUTSIDE: The hypnotist continues his approach ON GRAVEL. >CUT TO THE INSIDE: Nicholas turns on the record player and presumably begins >to relax. The sound of the record player drowns out any noise on the outside, >so if there is a remainder of the hypnotist's approach, Nicholas doesn't hear >it. The door creaks open and the hypnotist rushes into the house ON WOOD, >utters the line "Open your eyes Nicholas" (perhaps Nicholas dozed off- a >stiff drink and some slow orchestral music will do that to you), Nicholas >screams, and the needle jumps off the record because the player was bumped. > >Listen to the end of FF and see if this narrative is plausible. What do you >guys think? >
Actually.. I really am siding with the people who think the hypnotherapist was already there, now. It suiges between both points of view. I think Korg was the first person to spot it but if you LISTEN REALLY CLOSELY, around the time he pours the drink you hear the same segment of finally free that Nick was playing when he stopped his car, playing in the background. It's there folks, I didn't understand it either, but now I do.
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 13:36:11 -0600 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM stories and ending (long) Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991102193611.015c8260@pi-r-squared.com>
At 09:32 AM 11/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >> This is another thing that confused me. If he's supposed to be seeing scenes >> from Victoria's memory, then why is he also seeing scenes from Edward and >> Julian's memories, eg: "Home." > >Now, here I think is where we are going wrong. Nick is seeing visions from >Victoria's life, as he says in SDV. He's not seeing anything from Ed or Julian's >life. > >I think, maybe, we're not giving Nick enough credit here. I think he finds out a >lot outside of hypnosis. He's being haunted by his memories of Victoria's life >(SDV). His visions draw him to a house, and there he meets a man who tells him >about Victoria's murder (FT). Not getting enough answers, he digs a little >deeper, uncovering newspaper reports and what have you from 1928 (BTL). He visits >her grave and thinks he understands (THE), but still he doesn't have peace - >something just isn't right, but he can't figure out what (OLT). Eventually he >goes to a hypnotherapist for help (R). Under hypnosis, he is regressed to a point >where he sees how Victoria was killed (FF). Everything now makes sense to him, >and Victoria doesn't haunt him anymore - she too is at peace, now that the >mystery has been solved. > >The intro to FF, with the hypnotherapist waking Nick, actually takes place after >the song itself, which was what Nick saw after the therapist told him "Now it is >time to see how you died." Beyond This Life can't take place after this line in >Fatal Tragedy, even if it is right after it on the CD - that isn't how Victoria >died. BTL is only a newspaper, FF is the real thing. If he's looking through >Victoria's eyes, he's going to see FF. > >Basically, I think everything to do with Nick after Regression is there to tell >us the story leading up to him going to the hypnotherapist (not counting the bits >where the hypnotherapist is actually talking, obviously). The bits of the story >about Ed and Julian are told by them - the story actually jumps to the past so >that we can see what was going on back then. Nick might see some of it through >Victoria's eyes, but the actual story is told by the 1928 cast. Nick's regression >is really just a frame to put their story in. > >Why put the story of the murder after he's woken up then? Well, it makes for a >more involving climax - having the revelation of how it all happened at the end >is far more interesting than us finding it all out, and then having to traipse >through him coming out of hypnosis. Besides, notice that the first few stages of >FF are in the past - really in the past, not just Nick seeing it. The 1928 >characters are finishing their story. At the end, Nick finishes his story, >telling us how he's finally free because he now understands, thanks to the >regression he's just undergone.
This is by far the best summary of the narrative structure of the album, I have seen. Solid and it's completely backed up by the album.
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 11:34:19 -0800 From: Amanda Rosenblum <mildew@ucla.edu> To: YtseJam <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Got reincarnation? Message-ID: <381F3CBA.CEB21BA5@ucla.edu>
> Another piece of info that is relevant to "SFaM" - souls usually > choose to reincarnate together with the same group of other souls, over and > over, until a particular lesson is thoroughly learned.
Any die hard X Philes out there (before last season anyway)? This sounds a lot like the episode "The Field Where I Died". In it, Mulder undergoes hypnotic regression and finds that a woman in the current investigation was his spouse during the Civil War era.. I say spouse because I think Mulder may have been a woman and she the man, but I forget. During another session, he sees himself in Nazi Germany. Scully is his father, and Cancer Man is the officer that kills his father. As much as I may have mangled the details, the point is that souls are reincarnated, and seek each other out in other lives. Those close to us in one life will be close to us in another, and souls will be reincarnated as people playing similar roles in all of our lives. Some believe that this reincarnation goes on until a "happy ending" or some event that was meant to take place, finally does, but others believe that the same patterns carry on throughout all our lives, i.e., if we are widowed in one life, we are likely to be widowed in the next. Not that I believe any of this, but it's a warm fuzzy thought (or a cold black one, depending on which side you believe). If this sounds interesting to anyone, be sure to check out the episode when it comes out on tape. Quite a beautiful, poignant tale.
> Any Belgian Jammers wanting to come along to the Luxemburg concert > (23/11/1999) ?
I'd love to, but I am in the states. However, since November 23rd is my birthday, i will allow you to fly me in to Lux. ;)
~~Amanda
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:56:00 -0500 From: Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: the old man is Victoria? Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991102145600.007f2100@pop.mw.mediaone.net>
Nicholas is Victoria, and the old man is Julian. That's why Nick feels he can trust him right away.
At 09:58 AM 11/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Bare with me for a moment. Imagine that after Victoria died, her soul was >reincarnated the same year. Not saying reincarnation is immediate, for >argument's sake, let's say this reincarnation was immediate. Let's also >assume that Nicholas is in his early 20s (he can have a wife and kid in his >early 20s). I think this is a slim possiblity. In Nick's regression, he >visits the past (my best explanation for why a lot of the unexplainable stuff >happens in his regression) and talks to the old man in FT. he trusts the old >man right away. the old man can't be Edward. Maybe it's Julian, but suppose >the old man is a reincarnation of Victoria, the one before Nick. he wouldn't >be that old, middle 50s maybe, but he'd be old in 20-year old Nick's eyes. > >Victoria dies >reincarnated as old man >old man dies >reincarnated as Nick > >Its a longshot, but I just like to put more fuel on the fire. >
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Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 20:34:18 GMT From: "Simon Dodd" <sjdodd80@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: More ranting Message-ID: <19991102203418.69804.qmail@hotmail.com>
>anyone else notice that the "DREAM THEATER" logo went back to it's > >original font. Do you think it's because the album was related to I&W >or >maybe it's because they're embarassed about the turn out FII and >wanted to >leave that segment of their career behind them.. I suspect that it's not entirely removed from the fact that whenever DT fans debate the font, the only argument is over wether or not it's any of our business. No-one's ever defended FII/OIaL, you'll notice. This was because those two fonts BLEW, and the covers themselves didn't look NEARLY as cool as previous covers.
>Well that's a given in any extended instrumental part. Those parts >are >therebecause they can do that, and because they enjoy it. I don't >possibly >see how instrumental music can "go anywhere" or "have a >point" unless it >conveys some kind of mood. That's funny, I'd love to hear your explanation for every other DT instrumental section ever previously recorded (excepting "Bombay Vindaloo"), ALL of which feel A LOT more satisfyingly complete, and seem to "go somewhere". Furthermore, I don't see how vocals can "go somewhere" or "have a point" unless they convey some sort of mood.
>I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I have a great idea. >I'm >guessing off of some cues at the end of "Home." I burned a copy >of SFaM >with "Metropolis, part 1" mixed in right after "Home." The >shaker noise >perfectly synchronizes with Met. 1, so I mixed it in. >Also, at the end of >Met. 1, the last words are "daaaaaance of >eterniteeeeeeeey..." Well, duh. > So, I mixed the end of Met. 1 with >"Dance of Eternity." >It's great...now I can listen to *all* of Metropolis, without breaks, >in >order, and hopefully how it was meant to be listened to. What do >you >folks think? No offence, but I think you're WAAAAAAAY off-beam. Metropolis was never intended to have a part two, it was just a little in-joke, Petrucci poking fun at the whole prog thing that the song was doing. To suggest that DT's career has been ruled by some grand plan is AT BEST absurd. The whole of Metro2 - I've said this before, but it bears repetition - is PACKED with little references to Metro1, in a vain effort to convince that the two are in any way related beyond title. It's like saying that all those irritating samples that immediately follow the bit of TDoE that you're talking about were what the original was written to become in the first place. It's like suggesting that John Lennon only wrote Imagine so that Noel Gallagher could rip it off and improve it to make A Few Dollars More!
>I've been hearing more negative comments about Jordan than I thought >I >would. The only thing negative I'd have to say was his overplaying >in the >beginning of "One Last Time." It starts out very slow, and his >playing >there seemed completely inappropriate. His solos were great, >especially in >Overture 1928. I don't think that ANYTHING in OLT is inappropriate; it strikes me as being the standout tune of the album. JR's solos? His solos were by-and-large dull and pedestrian, as were FAR too many of JP's (look out! He's got a harmonic minor scale - AND HE'S GONNA' USE IT! LOTS!). The solos on LTE2 were a LOT better. I suspect that this is a combination of too many fingers in too many pies; and they may yet come to regret skipping the whole idea of demoing the album.
>That horn section in BTL was kind of annoying, but that's it. The You're not wrong.
>1, and if they weren't so damn ambiguous, maybe I could make sense of As Chris Squire once corrected when asked about Jon's "ambiguous" lyrics: "Ah, I think the term you're looking for is "Vague"."
>I've noticed a ton of continuity problems. If Nicholas is regressing >and >seeing scenes from his memory, how is he visiting Victoria's >grave and >talking to an old man at a house? He's supposed to be >observing scenes >from his memory, and here he is interacting with >people and such. This I >don't understand. Also, how come a certain >character's lyrics are in the >third person? Eg: In Finally Free, The >Sleeper's lyrics read "As their >bodies lie still...all their fears >disappear" etc. And what about the >lyrics in the past and present? No shit there's continuity problems! This has something to do with the plot being daft (I doubt any of the really know what's going on with it either), and several different people writing the lyrics. To be honest, I really like the music, some of the lyrics are OK, but for the most part, I think that the plot's complete mythical twaddle. It's designed especially to get people like you guys spending YEARS going "But what does it all MEAN?" "How OLD in Nick"? Well, I'd guess he's about 3 months old, 'cos that's when JP dreamed him up for the first time ever, when they sat down to write some lyrics for all the new material.
>>I think the guys are already writing Met III .................. > >I think you may have hit on something DT Girl. At the end of SFAM I >still >don't feel any "closure". Does anybody else get the same >feeling? That's odd, I felt a distinct sense of closure to the whole Metropolis thing at about...ooh, the end of Part 1?
Actually, one good word: Does anyone else notice that JP's FINALLY found a WICKED tone? How horny is that riff to Home? not quite as horny as Lie (you've got to try that riff in D rather than B - less heavy, but you make up for it with clarity). The SFaM tone...it's like, halfway between PMU/Met1 and Awake. Only with some appropriately placed strats all over the album. Cool, has he changed his p/ups, or just his amp setup? Also, at a guess, it sounds like they've gone back to the old way of recording things, to an extent. People seem to have gotten confused over this, saying that, say, on Awake, it created sterility. The word they were obviously looking for was CONTINUITY, which is something quite different.
Si
p.s., I remember saying that maybe Vic's the bad girl, it's just that the story's told from her side... Damn right! Let the bitch burn! :)
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Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 23:41:56 -0800 From: Jonathan D Willey <willeyatc@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SfaM In Japan Message-ID: <19991103.004059.90.0.willeyatc@juno.com>
> Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Jonathan D Willey thus > begged:
*lol*... hope not...
> Actually, it's gonna have Raise the Knife with vocals and a new > track that was left out > of SFAM called "The Revenge" which is supposed to be an insane > instrumental.
Yeah, I am batting a thousand on this list... Sorry if I am giving out wrong info... If i can find that post where "someone" said there would be no exta tracks i will send it back... I guess actually it won't do much help because I'm probably misinformed anyway!!! It will be great though if there are some other tracks!!! thanks for informing me...
ytsejon
> >Jon > > > > > >> At 06:18 AM 5/10/99 -0700, Emerson, Michael J. wrote: > >> > > >> >Has anyone posted anything regarding the Japanese release of the > > >> new album? > >> > > >> >Do we know yet whether or not it will have bonus tracks? > >> > > >> >If someone could let me know soon, I'd appreciate it, as I'd > like > >> to alter > >> >my CDNow advance order (if necessary). > >> > > >> > > >> >mikE > >> >____________________________________________________________ > >> > > >> > > >> > >> --- > >> > >> > >> Alan Estrada Adler, ICQ #9267174 Monterrey, Mexico > >> -------------------------------------------------------- > >> http://welcome.to/thenetdom > > > >ytseJon > > > >Jonathan Willey, ATC > >WSU > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >Get the Internet just the way you want it. > >Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! > >Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > > -The Doc > > -- > ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ > ---------------------- > ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems > - > C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== > Administration > ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering > =================
ytseJon
Jonathan Willey, ATC WSU
___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5165 **************************
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