YTSEJAM Digest 5171
Today's Topics:
1) continuity problems indeed
by "M P" <mremann6@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
2)
by "David Talley" <davidtalley13@hotmail.com>
3) re: frenchies
by "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
4) Re: part 1, part 2, part 8.0.4.2.11?
by "Stephen Glowacki" <seasend@ix.netcom.com>
5) Re: Compress ????
by Brian Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
6) Re: part 1, part 2, part 8.0.4.2.11? (SAGA corrections and cool
by Jan Melander <jan.melander@got.wmdata.se>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5170
by Scott Patterson <spatters@student.umass.edu>
8) another "song of the millenium" voting..
by O-P Komonen <op777@surffi.net>
9) Re: The Real Reasons... and Korg's Ramblings (Jam 5170)
by "Matthew A. Schnoor" <mschnoor@yahoo.com>
10) Re:
by "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
11) Re: Tour: DT + Dixie Dregs + Spock's Beard ?!
by "Mark Bredius" <bredius@quicknet.nl>
12) THE FINAL DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE ENDING OF SFAM!!!!!!
by szebro1@gl.umbc.edu
13) New GNR / Kovenant
by WB Henderson <wbhender@cs.millersv.edu>
14) sfam ending
by "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
15) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5170
by Dan Wait <camera_i@yahoo.com>
16) Re: THE FINAL DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE ENDING OF SFAM!!!!!!
by Greg Hulse <ghulse@esc.net.au>
17) Re: THE FINAL DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE ENDING OF SFAM!!!!!!
by Greg Hulse <ghulse@esc.net.au>
18) stuff
by Ryan Blankenship <rblanken@gcfn.org>
19) Charts...!
by Dave Ware <dave.ware@walker.com>
20) Through Her Eyes lyrics question
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:05:10 -0500
From: "M P" <mremann6@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: continuity problems indeed
Message-ID: <199911040551394@mremann6.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
>>I've noticed a ton of continuity problems. If Nicholas is regressing
>>and seeing scenes from his memory, how is he visiting Victoria's
>>grave and talking to an old man at a house?
he isn't. Not at the same time.
>No shit there's continuity problems! This has something to do with
> the plot being daft
Once again, we've been told this album is like Pulp Fiction.
The plot scenes are NOT in sequential order.
This holds true for pretty much the whole album, and even
within single tracks.
>(I doubt any of the really know what's going on with it either),
we had a working chronology scripted that logically held.
this computer ate it. More's the pity.
Given time, it will be reconstructed. We've been given
the end segment in the previous
JAJUID/Dom`ny Mortis
Dream Theater newsletter - http://www.dreamtheater.net/uacmmail/
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:01:36 GMT
From: "David Talley" <davidtalley13@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Message-ID: <19991104140139.5560.qmail@hotmail.com>
I am an avid progressive music listener (Rush, Yes, DT, Fates Warning, LTE,
as well as others). A friend of mine (who doesn't listen to prog) asked me
what it was. I told him about different time signatures, complexity of
music as well as lyrics, arrangements, etc. My question to you is, if there
is one quinessential progressive cd, that I could play him, what would it
be? I know that no one cd or group can summarize a whole musical movement,
but which one do you think embodies prog music? Thanks!
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 06:26:32 PST
From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: frenchies
Message-ID: <19991104142633.73900.qmail@hotmail.com>
and later on on OIAL, MP(?) says "au revoir mon ami", when it should be "au
revoir MES amis", unless the audience is compised of one VERY loud
individual (which would explain why you don't hear anything when JLB urges
the audience to sing along...)
OK i'll shut up now
-Banjoman
np: Phish-Junta
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The scientist's dogma seems awfully religious to me - Ty Tabor
**********************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:27:00 -0500
From: "Stephen Glowacki" <seasend@ix.netcom.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: part 1, part 2, part 8.0.4.2.11?
Message-ID: <002b01bf26d0$a8633430$1f0215ac@gkod>
> From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
>
> I would have to guess that originally on Metropolis
> (I&W), "Part 1" was a little tongue in cheek, and
> further parts were not planned.
>
> On Images And Words, DT makes several musical nods to
> Saga. If you're familiar with Saga's early recordings,
> they liked to add a "Part III" or "Chapter V" to their
> songs titles. Of course there were no other parts to
> these songs...
I agree with your point of "Part 1" in the title of Metropolis perhaps
being tongue in cheek, but a bit of info. on the Saga chapters; the first 4
Saga albums contain Chapters 1 through 8 of a story (2 per album), but they
are out of order. It wasn't until the fourth album came out (World's Apart)
that the story was complete. Oddly enough, they revisited the story on their
newly released album with the addition of 3 more chapters. Anyway....
Thanks,
Steve...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 08:53:45 -0600
From: Brian Hayden <hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Compress ????
Message-ID: <B446FA19.C1C%hayd0029@tc.umn.edu>
> <People...you can burn hours of music onto a cd if you put it on there in
> <compressed format, like mp3.
> <
> <-Brian
>
> Except that my home/car cd player don't recognise it.
Who said it would?? I was just resonding to the people who said this guy was
full of shit because he put 85 minutes or whatever of music on a cd. Yes,
you can do it. I never said you could listen to it anywhere other than your
computer.
-Brian
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 16:59:52 +0100
From: Jan Melander <jan.melander@got.wmdata.se>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: part 1, part 2, part 8.0.4.2.11? (SAGA corrections and cool
Message-ID: <B4476C08.1826%jan.melander@got.wmdata.se>
on 99-11-04 04.24, Brian Hansen at bhansen10@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>> laced composition. I think they fully intended to
> follow up Met 1
>> with a Met 2, though I believe they intended to write
> it later in
>
> I would have to guess that originally on Metropolis
> (I&W), "Part 1" was a little tongue in cheek, and
> further parts were not planned.
>
> On Images And Words, DT makes several musical nods to
> Saga. If you're familiar with Saga's early recordings,
> they liked to add a "Part III" or "Chapter V" to their
> songs titles. Of course there were no other parts to
> these songs...
>
WRONG!!!!
If You know your SAGA it's actually a much cooler thing going on with these
songs.
Over a period over the first 4 albums the wrote 8 songs (chapters) and
placed them in a non-consecutive order on the records.
Chap. 4 and 6 on the first, chap. 3 and 1 on the second, chap.2 and 7 on
the third and chap. 5 and 8 on their fourth.
Put these songs in the right order You'll have a science fiction story with
the creature on the first 3 cover in the lead role.
For those not familiar with SAGA....
SAGA was in the early eighties my favorite band, playing a kind of heavy
rock with a lot of keyboards and heavy guitars, quite proggy with
intelligent lyrics but not very long songs or straying from the ordinary
4/4.
After six album I lost interest due to a more pop direction (SELL-OUT!) on
their seventh one, love lyrics....
After that two of the members left the band and SAGA continued tying to
break with their new sound.
But never say never!
The original setting is back and after a couple of 'not that exciting'
albums they have released a new one just a moth ago and it's called:
"Full Circle"
The old font is back, so is the cover art and even the Creature!
(I can see some similarities with the some of the discussions about SFAM ;-)
AND even THREE new chapters (9, 13 & 10)
AND a return to a more Old-SAGA sound (think Worlds Apart/Silent Knight with
a more modern sound and mix).
If You liked the early SAGA this is a treat for You, check it out!
NP-SFaM but I will put Full Circle on afterwards.
Cheers,
Jan
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Jan Melander, WM-data
jan.melander@got.wmdata.se
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb)) - Shakespeare
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 11:02:54 -0500
From: Scott Patterson <spatters@student.umass.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5170
Message-ID: <001201bf26de$0e610de0$83b47780@spatters>
-
------------------------------
>Has anyone heard the new song yet. Axl has a new song on the End of Days
Soundtrack, and I am very curious. He still has a full band, he being the
only original member, but he is also taking more of a electronic
approach.I am expecting NIN with Axl singing. Speaking of them, my friend
and I found Trent's studio here in New Orleans. It's very conspicous. I
know for sure it used be a morgue. Pretty sick, but cool.<
I've heard the new single a few times. I beleive it's callem 'Oh my God'
It's really bad. Very electronic and industrial, and axl sounds like a 7
year old rob zombie. The vocals are actually fairly quiet..It sounds more
like limp bizquick than G'N'R
It's proof how useless axl is without slash,suff, and izzy
on a related note,
does anyone know anything about the new live album they're releasing? i hear
it's from between 87 and 92 or something. Could be really bad though, they
had some terrible live performances.
Skitch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 18:04:25 +0200
From: O-P Komonen <op777@surffi.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: another "song of the millenium" voting..
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991104180425.00936660@trade.hamkk.fi>
This time in Finnish, go to
http://db.finhost.fi/iltasanoma/owa/iltasanomat_vuosisadan_biisi1
write the artist & song to the box that says "Jos valitsit vaihtoehdon
"Joku muu", kirjoita t=E4h=E4n kappaleesi nimi."=20
and click on "l=E4het=E4"
op777
Thoughts while Eating at McDonald's "...if people were actually shaped like
those little "throw litter away" people-figures with the pointy limbs that
appear on the boxes the burgers come in, they'd fall into gratings all the
time and get stuck. But getting out of jail would be really easy." -Kevin
Madden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 08:42:46 -0800 (PST)
From: "Matthew A. Schnoor" <mschnoor@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: The Real Reasons... and Korg's Ramblings (Jam 5170)
Message-ID: <19991104164246.5738.rocketmail@web114.yahoomail.com>
Matt Johnston displayed these flashes of brilliance:
> Nicholas is at once new and old, himself and Victoria. Nicholas is Ray
> Alder. At the end, Terry Brown shoots Nick/Ray for putting him through
> all those Perfect Symmetry rehersals.
Ack! You discovered the true plot! So I guess we'll be waiting for
"Metropolis 3: The Arch and the Alder" in a few years, huh?
Seriously though, I think it'd be a great idea if either one of these two
Fates-meisters did something with DT in the future. Maybe a power ballad, as
a duet with James. Hmm.
> There -- it's so simple, you see.
Precisely. It makes too much sense. :)
Korg Ecksthrey breathed these words of life:
> Yes, but, given that, how would the Hypno get Nicholas' house key? I
> suppose if you were open-minded enough you could assume he took time while
> Nick was under to swipe Nick's house key and run over to Ace Hardware for a
> copy. :) It's actually very plausible. heheheh.
Well, see, that all depends on where Nicholas hid his keys before going into
hypno-therapy. Perhaps he was an ex-con, and knew where to... uh... conceal
these things, so a curious (but not probing) hypno-therapist would not find
them. ;)
/me waits for the next Jerry Springer show... "Men who carry the spirits of
murdered women named Victoria and repeat the names 'Miracle' and 'Sleeper'
constantly... and the women who love them."
Later!
=====
-- Matthew A. Schnoor
-- mschnoor@yahoo.com
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:32:40 -0400
From: "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re:
Message-ID: <001301bf26e2$366c6100$37351ec8@yunque.net>
> I am an avid progressive music listener (Rush, Yes, DT, Fates Warning,
LTE,
> as well as others). A friend of mine (who doesn't listen to prog) asked
me
> what it was. I told him about different time signatures, complexity of
> music as well as lyrics, arrangements, etc. My question to you is, if
there
> is one quinessential progressive cd, that I could play him, what would it
> be? I know that no one cd or group can summarize a whole musical
movement,
> but which one do you think embodies prog music? Thanks!
>
It all depends on the tastes of the person. If they dig more vintage
stuff you can give them some Yes or ELP. If theye more in the rock /metal
genre...LTE 1 and 2 Should do it. or Explorer's Club : Age of impact. which
is also a good representation of what progressive rock usually is. Also
.some DT of course...
My choice in this case for a definitive album you could get him would be...
EC:AoI
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 18:15:43 +0100
From: "Mark Bredius" <bredius@quicknet.nl>
To: "Ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Tour: DT + Dixie Dregs + Spock's Beard ?!
Message-ID: <000601bf26e8$3a0c0e40$0100007f@localhost>
Daniel T. Chen wrote:
> Just read a review linked from the DT site (by Ghostland), and at the
> end of it is "[DT] plans to rehearse the new material extensively with
> the intent of playing the entire piece live when they embark on a U.S.
> tour with the Dixie Dregs and Spock's Beard in January of 2000."
If you check the review again, you'll notice "Spock's Beard" has been
edited out of that sentence... Just a little confusion due to all the
rumours that have been flying lately...
Anyway, check out http://ghostland.com/ if you've never been there
before... It's a very cool site...
Mark Bredius
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 12:41:42 -0500 (EST)
From: szebro1@gl.umbc.edu
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: THE FINAL DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE ENDING OF SFAM!!!!!!
Message-ID: <199911041741.MAA1193924@gl.umbc.edu>
heheheheheheh. Yeah, right. :P
> Other notable debuts include Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young's reunion album
> "Looking Forward" at 26, Rob Zombie's remix album "American Made Music To
> Strip By" at 38, Chico DeBarge's "Game" at 41, the Genesis hits package
> "Turn It On Again" at 65, Dream Theater's "Scenes From A Memory" at 73,
> Incubus' third album "Make Yourself" at 80, Irish popsters B*Witched at 91
> with "Awake & Breathe," Ideal's self-titled debut at 97, the Alice In Chains
> box set "Music Box" at 123, and the Clash live offering "Live From Here To
> Eternity" at 193.""
That sure is good news.
Any clue what Images and Words debuted as?
> Maybe Nicholas is really Duke of GI Joe and the Hypnotherapist is really
> that lame Cobra Hypnotist guy who had the psychadelic shield.
Dr. Mindbender.
> I can't
> remember his name. He was about as lame as Chuckles the undercover civilian
> Joe, who I always used as the hostage Storm Shadow didn't give a rat's ass
> about letting get killed.
Hehehehehe. I always let Frostbite die. I just thought he looked like
Kenny Loggins, and that bastard needs to get shot. :P
> Hmmm... Anyway, let's assume that Cobra Hypnotist
> is Cobra Commander reincarnated, who once had an affair with Nicholas who
> was once Scarlet behind his brother Serpentor's back.
Serpentor couldn't have a brother! He was created from the DNA of all the
great military leaders of human history!
> What if Nicholas is
> really Zartan in disguise seeking to slay the reincarnated Cobra Commander?
Now that's the smartest thing you've ever said, Korg. :P
> It's getting clearer! The Dreadnaughts are the ones invading Cobra
> Commander's private estate in the end when suddenly a large group of Crimson
> Guardsmen come to intercept them. During the scuffle, Cobra Commander gets
> away, knocking over the phonograph. Whoo. Good story. I could like this.
I don't know. I think it would be much more convenient for fate to
reincarnate Edward and Julian and Snake-Eyes and Storm Shadow. Or tomax
and Xamot. Now THERE's sibling rivalry.
> Another thing I've noticed with this album: The transitions are MUCH
> smoother than ever before!
Yep. that's why I've cut, like, a MILLION classes thes past two weeks -
I just can't bear to listen to just PART of it. I MUST liten to the whole
thing at once!
> > He visits her grave and thinks he understands (THE),
>
> NO
YES :)
> Through Her Eyes does not stand alone in time. Another song
> helps conclude the scene here and Nick finds resolution.
> That cannot happen this early in the story.
Through her Eyes doesn't conclude anything but Act I. And the sense of
resolution-but-not-really is there just for that reason. When we go to
see a Broadway show, Act I usually has a pretty clear-cut stopping point,
but still leaves the audience with MYRIAD questions about what the hell is
going on.
Think about Operation: Mindcrime. Suite Siste Mary ends. Nikki is sent
to kill Mary and the priest. He doesn't. He kills the priest and spares
Mary. Yay. Love triumphs over his training/brainwashing. Great story.
eveything should be ok now, right? Wrong. That's why we listen to the
rest of the CD.
Nicholas, after one of his numerous regression sessions, visits the grave
of Victoria. He feels sad, "like a part of me had died." but, still,
it's quite possible that Nicholas thinks it's all over at this point. WE
know that it isnt, of course, because our CD players tell us that there's
still ~35 minutes left on the disc. I'm guessing the hypnotherapist
regressed nick only to the point where he would find out that in a past
life he was a young girl who was murdered.
> >but still he doesn't have peace - something just isn't right, but
> >he can't figure out what (OLT).
Right. He tries to accept it, but he cant. "It doesn't make any sense,
this tragic ending..." He goes back to the Hypnotherapist to figure out
the rest of it. Hypnotherapist better do something before this guy
figures out too much.
> only the first part; we are guessing this song spans two different
> time periods, one before and after he has resolved his mystery.
I don't think so. Listen to the music from "An open door..." on. Here
the music builds and builds and builds. Buildsing toward a climax, of
course. a climax in which nicholas would finally remember everything that
happened, instead of relying on cloudy memories, nightmares, and an old
newspaper article. But, we never get the climax. We get a cadence, but
no climax. Nicholas doesn't remember.
> FF is split chronologically across several time spans.
sort of, but I think they're all happening at very close to the same time.
> Nick would only see the death scene - Miracle's part he'd have
> to infer on his own, since Victoria's memory doesn't extend that
> far. Nick'd then be woken up and leave.
> End FF for now.
right.
> >The intro to FF, with the hypnotherapist waking Nick, actually takes
> > place after the song itself,
I don't think so. I think the Hypno wakes Nicholas up and sends him on
his way. Then, the Hypnotherapist "remembers" Edward's thoughts "Friday
evening/the blood still..." and remembers the anger he felt toward
Victoria, and decides he must do something (again).
Meanwhile, Nicholas is driving around aimlessly for a while, thinking
about what he remembered in regression. "I ran into Julian..." After a
while, he finds that he has driven to "The House". After this, I'm fuzzy.
> >Basically, I think everything to do with Nick after Regression is
> > there to tell us the story leading up to him going to the
> >hypnotherapist (not counting the bits where the hypnotherapist is
> >actually talking, obviously).
I don't think so. He wouldn't have read a newspaper article about a girl
he never knew unless he had already been regressed to the point of at
least knowing her name.
> >The bits of the story about Ed and Julian are told by them -
> >Nick might see some of it through Victoria's eyes, but the actual
> >story is told by the 1928 cast. Nick's regression
> >is really just a frame to put their story in.
>
> yes.
Agreed.
> The final sequence for this album:
> FF: H
> (OLT: N2)
> THE
> TSCO: N1, V, N2
> FF: N
> the unofficial track 13
Oh, come on. that just looks like alphabet soup. :)
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 12:47:49 -0500
From: WB Henderson <wbhender@cs.millersv.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: New GNR / Kovenant
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991104121940.00bfe390@cs.millersv.edu>
I checked it out last night -- pretty sorry in my opinion. I wasn't
expecting oldschool GNF'nR by any means, but it just seemed jumbled and
didn't go anywhere. All ground tread a long time ago, and better, by other
folks. Honestly, the whole "End of Days" soundtrack looked weak: every
14-year-old's favorite KORN remaking every other hit song they've ever had,
Rob Zombie doing, you guessed it, another remix, and the granddaddy of all
that is metal, Limp Biskit, just to name a few. Just my opinions of
course. The tracks by artists I didn't recognize may've been better than
the ones I'm picking on here.
Anybody know anything about the band The Kovenant (formerly
Covenant-with-a-C)? I listened to some of their latest, "Animatronic",
last night as well. Really interesting stuff -- think black metal meets
late-'90s industrial-metal. I've honestly never heard anything like it.
Brian
[NP...Naked Sun -- Wonderdrug]
=====================================
Name: W. Brian Henderson, Esq.
Contact: wbhender@cs.millersv.edu
WIXQ ON-LINE:
http://www.millersv.edu/~wixq/
Automaton Hit Parade:
http://www.millersv.edu/~wixq/Automaton/
=====================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 09:55:36 PST
From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: sfam ending
Message-ID: <19991104175537.40509.qmail@hotmail.com>
I just got done listening to sfam for the 7th or 8th time, and I haven't
really begun trying to figure out the story yet, but as I listened to the
last miniute, something occured to me
-the general theory that I see on the jam is that Nick gets home and
listens to a record, and the Hypnotherapist sneaks up on him, says "Open
your eyes, Nicolas" and knocks the record player over, hence the static.
But if the record player was knocked over, we would still be able to
hear the other stuff going on in the room, along WITH the static...but
there's only static, nothing else. I'm not offering a theory, because, as I
said, I haven't tried to figure out the plot yet...just one more thing to
think about
-Banjoman
p.s. I ran into this guy at a Galactic show in boston last week who noticed
my "infinitey" t-shirt and started talking about DT...Are you on the jam, by
any chance?
np: Widespread Panic - Till the Medicine Takes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The scientist's dogma seems awfully religious to me - Ty Tabor
**********************************************************************
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 10:04:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Dan Wait <camera_i@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5170
Message-ID: <19991104180434.6681.rocketmail@web308.mail.yahoo.com>
> The message is deeper; people are simply
looking for an explanation as to why certain acts or
scenes happened. <
If an ending is left ambiguous (sp?) like this one,
then the plot can be sort-of 'twisted' to fit a
particular meaning. Someone who interpreted more
justice might have a different take on the ending than
someone who interpreted more revenge. So perhaps the
ending is purposely vague to allow this?
Just a thought.
-Dan
NP: 'Foreplay' Boston
=====
Calvin: Did you watch the movie on tv last night?
Hobbes: Nope.
Calvin: Did you watch the game then?
Hobbes: Nope.
Calvin: Did you watch ANY tv last night?
Hobbes: Nope.
Calvin: Then what did you watch?
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 05:08:24 +1030
From: Greg Hulse <ghulse@esc.net.au>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: THE FINAL DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE ENDING OF SFAM!!!!!!
Message-ID: <3821D2A0.F48EB2D2@esc.net.au>
szebro1@gl.umbc.edu wrote:
> > >The intro to FF, with the hypnotherapist waking Nick, actually takes
> > > place after the song itself,
>
> I don't think so. I think the Hypno wakes Nicholas up and sends him on
> his way. Then, the Hypnotherapist "remembers" Edward's thoughts "Friday
> evening/the blood still..." and remembers the anger he felt toward
> Victoria, and decides he must do something (again).
Okay...
> > >The bits of the story about Ed and Julian are told by them -
> > >Nick might see some of it through Victoria's eyes, but the actual
> > >story is told by the 1928 cast. Nick's regression
> > >is really just a frame to put their story in.
>
> Agreed.
Well, which is it? If you agree with me on this theory, why don't you agree with
me on Finally Free? What's the difference?
> Meanwhile, Nicholas is driving around aimlessly for a while, thinking
> about what he remembered in regression. "I ran into Julian..." After a
> while, he finds that he has driven to "The House". After this, I'm fuzzy.
He's too deliberate about things for this to be the case. He turns off the
TV/radio, makes himself a drink, and puts on a record. It's his own home that he's
gone to.
Once again, why does this need to be something that Nick is remembering? Why can't
it just be the 1928 characters telling their story?
> > >Basically, I think everything to do with Nick after Regression is
> > > there to tell us the story leading up to him going to the
> > >hypnotherapist (not counting the bits where the hypnotherapist is
> > >actually talking, obviously).
>
> I don't think so. He wouldn't have read a newspaper article about a girl
> he never knew unless he had already been regressed to the point of at
> least knowing her name.
He'd been to the house (Fatal Tragedy) and talked to the old guy. It was then that
he learned about Victoria and her murder. He tried to get more answers from him
but failed, so then he went to the archives.
Honestly, what does Nick need to find out in regression that he can't in the
"real" world? Only how Victoria really died, surely. Everything else he can
discover himself. Let's credit Nicholas with some intelligence here. He only goes
to the hypnotherapist as a last resort, because he just can't figure it out
without being regressed.
--- It's the gray days that I'll remember the mostg
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 05:28:03 +1030 From: Greg Hulse <ghulse@esc.net.au> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: THE FINAL DEFINITIVE WORD ON THE ENDING OF SFAM!!!!!! Message-ID: <3821D73A.D9A4CC79@esc.net.au>
szebro1@gl.umbc.edu wrote:
> I'm guessing the hypnotherapist regressed nick only to the point where he would > find out that in a past life he was a young girl who was murdered.
One other thing - I don't think Nick found this out in regression. Heck, if he didn't already know, or at least suspect, why go for the regression in the first place?
"Are these her memories, awakened through my eyes?" (OLT). He finally realises that he's not just having visions, he actually *was* Victoria in a past life. From here it's not hard to see him deciding on the regression therapy as an answer to his problem.
Hence we get in The Spirit Carries On - "I may never find all the answers/I may never understand why/I may never prove/What I know to be true/But I know that I still have to try." He's not sure if this therapy is going to work, but it's worth a shot, and it's the only solution he can think of. Notice that after the solo we get a reprise of the lyrics from Regression - but this time he's found his answers.
So where does this put Through My Words and Through Her Eyes? I don't know anymore. Perhaps between One Last Time and The Spirit Carries On.
--- Every dream I have wants me to stay
g
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Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:57:03 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan Blankenship <rblanken@gcfn.org> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: stuff Message-ID: <Pine.3.07.9911041303.A9023-a100000@acme>
hey, although were at 73 on the billboard list, check out the billboard internet sales--that looks a lot better(number 2!)
im thinkin jp uses a 7string on this cd, but not very often...that thrash riff in the 2nd verse of fatal tragedy sounds lower than an e to me...and im pretty sure hes using one on home too, since it sounds so thick....
whoever posted that that link that was supposed to say that dt/the dregs/and spocks beard were touring--i couldnt find that there...it just said dream theater and dixie dregs were touring, no mention of spocks beard :( i dunno.......
blankey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 13:00:45 -0600 From: Dave Ware <dave.ware@walker.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Charts...! Message-ID: <63E392974AF3D211A88600104B93BD8B15CC27@bham-xchg>
Hey,
I'm sure this will be posted alot but, DT debued at number 73 in the US Billboard charts (http://www.billboard.com/charts/bb200.asp) but even better they were in at number 2 on the Billboard Internet charts (http://www.billboard.com/charts/internet.asp), beating out Bush and Alice in Chains, and second only to Stoned Temple Pilots.
I think this kicks arse....! I would love to think that they've arrived...
Dave (a UK Jammer).
NP: er....go on take a guess...!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 14:27:52 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Through Her Eyes lyrics question Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9911041426290.12923-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
What do y'all suppose the lyrics "And I know what it's like / To lose someone you love" means? I noticed this a couple of listens ago and it struck me as odd - what loved ones do you suppose Nicholas has lost? I suppose that a parent or both parents would count - but it seems more like he talking about someone like a wife or a child. Any thoughts?
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- The average woman would rather have beauty than brains, because the average man can see better than he can think. -------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 5171 **************************
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