YTSEJAM Digest 5159
Today's Topics:
1) History repeats itself ......... Metropolis III
by DTGirl2612@aol.com
2) Veronica?
by DTGirl2612@aol.com
3) Twins
by DTGirl2612@aol.com
4) Open your eyes Victoria
by "Schnipp -" <schnipp@hotmail.com>
5) a slight light on the mystery
by "Lionel" <rurouni@singnet.com.sg>
6) Re: a slight light on the mystery
by Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net>
7) Re: Ramblings
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
8) SFaM
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
9) Re: SFaM
by TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
10) SFaM - Free copy
by "Daniel T. Chen" <daniel_chen@unc.edu>
11) Re: Two remarks on plot
by "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com>
12) The voice of dissent (burn the heretic!!) **spoiler**
by "Simon Dodd" <sjdodd80@hotmail.com>
13) Re: Two remarks on plot
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
14) Re: The voice of dissent (burn the heretic!!) **spoiler**
by Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com>
15) Re:Rubber Dildos?
by "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net>
16) I keep trying...more SFaM musings
by "Mike Patrick" <mvpatrick@home.com>
17) Re: SFaM - Free Copy (now closed)
by "Daniel T. Chen" <daniel_chen@unc.edu>
18) The D.H. Lawrence/Dream Theater connection
by "Michael G. Benoit" <michael.g.benoit@worldnet.att.net>
19) Victoria = I&W cover girl?
by "Adriano F. Giacomini" <randy_rhoads@dreamtheater.zzn.com>
20) going along with the D.H. Lawrence thing
by "Michael G. Benoit" <michael.g.benoit@worldnet.att.net>
21) LTE tabs
by "Heikki Kemppinen" <hkemppinen@hotmail.com>
22) one last thing about D.H./DT
by "Michael G. Benoit" <michael.g.benoit@worldnet.att.net>
23) Re: a slight light on the mystery
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
24) Re: MAJOR discovery
by Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com>
25) Re: Comments on Edward's identity
by Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com>
26) Re: Comments on Edward's identity
by Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:46:57 EST
From: DTGirl2612@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: History repeats itself ......... Metropolis III
Message-ID: <0.38ca6250.254d8631@aol.com>
>Nicholas is Victoria reincarnated, she
>cheated on the senator with his brother, so he killed them both and made it
>look like a double suicide.. any corrections?
>-Z
And wasn't Marilyn Monroe supposed to be involved with JFK senior (at least!)
which led to her untimely death (a possible murder disguised as suicide)?
The whole album is symbolic.
I think the guys are already writing Met III ..................
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 06:46:53 EST
From: DTGirl2612@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Veronica?
Message-ID: <0.a3fa6647.254d862d@aol.com>
>KorgX3 says Veronica
Isn't the girl's name Victoria? Well it is on my copy. Perhaps he has a
different version of Met 2.
Hey Korg you could make a LOT of cash on e-bay with that little gem .......
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 07:05:01 EST
From: DTGirl2612@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Twins
Message-ID: <0.911b2f9d.254d8a6d@aol.com>
>From: "David Talley" <davidtalley13@hotmail.com>
>The brothers are twins and will always
>be connected. What do you think?
>
Does anyone know if John Petrucci and his brother are twins? Sibling rivalry
figures pretty high in this story ..........
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:20:21 CET
From: "Schnipp -" <schnipp@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Open your eyes Victoria
Message-ID: <19991031132021.29900.qmail@hotmail.com>
hi,
anyone noticed thed the line 'open your eyes Victoria' sounds like it is
spoken by the same person that speaks 'just another empire, empire'?
Someone said a line in 'home' sounds like Bj's 'never say goodbye'. Could
you point that out to me, cause I don't hear it?
s.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 21:32:35 +0800
From: "Lionel" <rurouni@singnet.com.sg>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: a slight light on the mystery
Message-ID: <001701bf23a4$652e3900$7fa115a5@tmcht>
Here's what I think and know:
Nicholas IS Victoria reincarnated. James LaBrie confirmed that in an
interview. I think the JFK news is there merely to let us know what timeline
Nick is from. Senator Ed Baynes was alive in 1928, but not a senator then.
he bacomes a senator later, but is already dead by the time nick remembers
all this.
The ending: It's is unlikely that the hypnotherapist is the killer aka Ed
Baynes as Nick didn't react like that the first time he woke up. What's
possible is that Nick went home and relaxed into his chair. The part where
Nick shouts out is probably what is called a "Myoclonic Twitch". Most of you
have had this before. You relax, and your mind drifts. Suddenly you feel
like you're falling and your whole body jerks you awake. The Hypnoguy's
voice was possible just a ghost image in Nick's mind; remember that he had
quite a few memoris refreshed and his brain was extremely active then. Then
Nick accidently knocks the arm of the Phonogram. No violence, no mess, no
fuss. Just a simple reason to all this. "The simplest and most uneventful
reason is usually the correct one": Occham's Razor.
Lionel Wong
"...Though I walk through valleys alone,
I fear no evil.
By the waters still my soul,
My heart will trust in you..."
- Hillsongs
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:45:11 -0500
From: Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: a slight light on the mystery
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991031094511.0079bb90@pop.mw.mediaone.net>
At 05:44 AM 10/31/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
>Here's what I think and know:
>
>Nicholas IS Victoria reincarnated. James LaBrie confirmed that in an
>interview. I think the JFK news is there merely to let us know what timeline
>Nick is from. Senator Ed Baynes was alive in 1928, but not a senator then.
>he bacomes a senator later, but is already dead by the time nick remembers
>all this.
>
>The ending: It's is unlikely that the hypnotherapist is the killer aka Ed
>Baynes as Nick didn't react like that the first time he woke up. What's
>possible is that Nick went home and relaxed into his chair. The part where
>Nick shouts out is probably what is called a "Myoclonic Twitch". Most of you
>have had this before. You relax, and your mind drifts. Suddenly you feel
>like you're falling and your whole body jerks you awake. The Hypnoguy's
>voice was possible just a ghost image in Nick's mind; remember that he had
>quite a few memoris refreshed and his brain was extremely active then. Then
>Nick accidently knocks the arm of the Phonogram. No violence, no mess, no
>fuss. Just a simple reason to all this. "The simplest and most uneventful
>reason is usually the correct one": Occham's Razor.
>
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about here...
But would it cause someone to shout out in fear as Nick did?
>Lionel Wong
>
>"...Though I walk through valleys alone,
>I fear no evil.
>By the waters still my soul,
>My heart will trust in you..."
>
> - Hillsongs
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 09:53:14 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Ramblings
Message-ID: <381C57DA.851E364C@home.com>
Scott said:
> Also, I think that "The Spirit Carries On" is actually just a
> reassuring thing foreshadowing his death. Nicholas is now PREPARED TO > DIE
Yeah, I think you may be right there.
- Joe D.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:23:30 -0500
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: SFaM
Message-ID: <381C5EF2.B452B8FF@home.com>
> What if the Victoria/Edward/Julian thing wasn't the first time it had
> happened?
I think you're right here. I also assumed that this tragedy has played
out dozens of times (if not more), and will continue to happen.
> Maybe this thing's been going on since Remus/Romulus back in
> the very old days.
I have a question here. I remember seeing the Miracle/Sleeper being
referred to as being the Remus/Romulus twins several times. Where do we
get this from, is it implicitly stated anywhere? (I don't necessarily
agree or disagree, but I'm curious where we got this info).
- Joe D.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 10:26:34 -0500 (EST)
From: TheCowGod <demccor@clemson.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: SFaM
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.4.20.9910311025220.2709-100000@hubcap.clemson.edu>
> > Maybe this thing's been going on since Remus/Romulus back in
> > the very old days.
>
> I have a question here. I remember seeing the Miracle/Sleeper being
> referred to as being the Remus/Romulus twins several times. Where do we
> get this from, is it implicitly stated anywhere? (I don't necessarily
> agree or disagree, but I'm curious where we got this info).
i havent heard anyone actually suggest that the miracle/sleeper were
romulus/remus (unless that one comment quoted above counts). ive only
seen, in the faq, that romulus and remus were the inspiration for the
concept of the two brothers who were telepathically linked. moo.
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:25:10 -0500
From: "Daniel T. Chen" <daniel_chen@unc.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: SFaM - Free copy
Message-ID: <381C6D66.F97C3A9E@unc.edu>
Ah, that caught your attention, eh? ;-) Well, I received my CDNow
preorder two days ago, and I have been mulling over what to do with it.
I am content with my store-purchased copy of SFaM, and I think it would
be too much trouble to return the album to CDNow.
So...
I am giving the CDNow copy away. It is unopened, of course, and I
presume, in mint condition (I have yet to open the actual shipping
container).
How may you obtain it? Well, I am placing a few restrictions on this.
(1) You must *not* already have a copy of it. (duh :-)
(2) You must live *outside* the continental United States, preferrably
in a European country that won't see the official album release until a
few weeks proceeding the US release.
(3) You should, but are not required to, send me a *brief* personal
email telling me how you got into DT. ;-)
Other than that, I'm waiting for the first person to respond via
personal email. Yes, I realize that this is a bit biased, but it's the
only "fair" way. I'd like to return something to the DT fan community;
here ya go. ;-)
-d
-- Daniel T. Chen chenda@cs.unc.edu NP : Children of Bodom - Downfall------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:40:05 -0500 From: "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Two remarks on plot Message-ID: <000701bf23be$96f28da0$f697accf@rfbow>
> 2) Why assume that the reincarnated Ed murders or even attacks Nicholas? > The hypnotherapist reveals himself to be Ed and Nicholas gets surprised, > thereby making a gesture which makes the needle jump. What happens then is > an open question. Maybe they become gay lovers, what do we know? :-)
Ugh, you stole my idea! :-P Here's another though...What's the possiblity that Jack, Janet, and Chrissy from Three's Company are actually the other gender 70's reincarnations of Victoria, Edward, and Julian? Obviously, they'd worked things out and decided to just all live together (the kisses were hers and hers and his, after all) :-) That explains why the blonde roommate kept mysteriously disappearing though--Ed (as Janet) was up to his old evil tricks. So, that would make Mr. Furley...???
>1) What about the two * two shots heard? No one has explained this, but >there is a possibility: The obvious explanation would be the first shot to >be a miss! Edward misses Julian and has to fire again. He then kills >Victoria with two more shots. The police will draw the conclusion that >*Victoria* was shot at three times, and then Julian would have shot himself >with one shot! See?
Seriously though, that's a good bit of sleuthing about the gunshots--it makes sense. My girlfriend had actually figured that one out, but I was a little bit skeptical. Now I think you're both right about it. Cool.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 16:49:57 GMT From: "Simon Dodd" <sjdodd80@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: The voice of dissent (burn the heretic!!) **spoiler** Message-ID: <19991031164958.6328.qmail@hotmail.com>
Several people have so far said that SFaM isn't a first-listen album; which I agree with, no DT album has been, really. In fact, I'd say it's by far the most inaccesable album DT has ever put out, and probably will ever put out, given how much it buys into DT's own myth. However, I'll put my balls on the chopping block here, and offer anyone interested an axe...
You only really start to enjoy SFaM after you've listened to it enough times that you know the tunes and the lyrics quite well, otherwise it sounds like a jumbled mess. By contrast, "Awake" (example only) wasn't a first-listen album either, but there were tunes like IF, Lie and Scarred that just grabbed you by the throat and wouldn't let go. I probably wouldn't have bothered listening to it over-and-over that many times if I hadn't REALLY REALLY wanted it to be the best album of 1999 (which, for next time, had NOTHING to do with the veil of secrecy, which struck me as being absurd). The only thing that seemed really good from listen 1 was Finally Free, which is awesome.
Overall, after a few listens, my opinion (I've been behind in reading the jam lately - new job! - but it seems that this has been quite commonly bandied around) is that the album is a three-way cross between Tales of Topographic Oceans, The Wall, and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. In fact, let's be honest, after an awful lot of listens, the album seems more to sum up DT's career thusfar than break new ground (apart from the constant ad nauseum Metro1 references, there's bits that sound naggingly like Voices, the end of Scarred, etc.), and the whole album could better be titled "Images of the Awakened Lamb Lies Down & Falls Into Infinite Topographic Walls". Even knowing the tunes inside out can't detract from the fact that there are sections that seem a little jerky; more so than, say, LTE2.
The things that really grate are the CONSTANT musical and lyrical references to Metro1, designed to make this sound like it really is some sort of sequel. It isn't of course; the overblown (and absurdly over-complicated) plot bears scant - if any - relation to Metro1. And let's be honest: apart from the Wall comparisons in structural terms, none of DT is Roger Waters lyrically. For better or worse - and this is neither a compliment nor a criticism, merely an observation - the lyrics are very Rush-esque, as indeed the music frequently does too. Furthermore, too many of the solos seem throwaway and uninspired - maybe this is unfair, I don't know; but when you're a genius, to be pedestrian is selling yourself and everyone else short. Take note, JP and JR. (and Steve Vai!)
However, the things that struck me from moment one: James' voice is every bit as stunning as I&W, also recently evidenced by MullMuzzler. And - ooh boy, this is going to be controversial...NOT! - it LOOKS far more like a DT album than the last two. Storm Thorgerson, we love you, your covers for FII and OIaL were very Floyd, but they weren't DT. Lets be strait here: SFaM is VERY VERY good, and the more you listen, the better it gets. Just don't fall into the trap of thinking that it's a DT album, and therefore by definition the best album of the year/decade/millenium.
>Just one question. If the hypnotherapist was the Senator >reincarnated, >and killed Nicholas because he wanted to keep the >Senator's good name, >then why at the beginning of Finallly Free, he >told Nicholas to remember >everything he just went through? Wouldn't >he just tell him to forget it >all? Just wondering? [and MANY more posts like this:] Listen closely, and in the left speaker you'll hear a HOLE IN THE PLOT!! And there's several recurrent holes in the dialogue being played backwards in the other speaker throughout the album. Genius.
>Voila! That's what I think, but I guess only DT know for sure. Y'know, I somehow doubt that they do.
>The main melody in Home is almost an exact copy of "Never Say Goodbye" > >from Bon Jovi. Funnily enough, I listened to the whole of Act II, and my housemate put his head round the door afterward and asked when Bon Jovi had put out a new album. I threw a sock at him.
>So.... when's Metropolis Part III gonna be done? Oh GOD no! Can't we just let this daft mystique lie? I doubt when he wrote it, JP had any intention of doing a sequel; he wrote it as a cod-Rush fantasy epic (see the FAQ), and it was probably a case of "How can we make this sound EVEN MORE progressive? Oh yeah, let's call it "Part 1" - that'll run for years!!". This would neatly explain why SFaM really has nothing to do with Metro1. Let it lie, for God's sake.
>Did DT (especially John Petrucci) have this story in mind when >writing Pt. >1 ten years ago? NO!!!!!!!!!!!! OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DIDN'T!!!!
>One more question: Is Petrucci NOT the greatest lickmeister ever??!! YEEEEEESSSS!!! OF COURSE HE FUCKING IS!!!!!!!!!!
>Your stereo blows. I can hear Myung very well. In fact, I Sorry, but on SFaM and OIaL, so does JM's tone.
Asbestos underware safely in place, Si
P.S.: >Hands up all the women here who carry 25 inch rubber dildos around with >them? "Victoria watches and thoughtfully smiles..." ;)
NP: Finally Free - awesome, just awesome! _________________________________________________________________ "You do realise that none of this is real, right?" - George Lucas
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:08:56 -0600 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Two remarks on plot Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991031170856.015e9648@pi-r-squared.com>
>Ugh, you stole my idea! :-P Here's another though...What's the possiblity >that Jack, Janet, and Chrissy from Three's Company are actually the other >gender 70's reincarnations of Victoria, Edward, and Julian? Obviously, >they'd worked things out and decided to just all live together (the kisses >were hers and hers and his, after all) :-) >That explains why the blonde roommate kept mysteriously disappearing >though--Ed (as Janet) was up to his old evil tricks. So, that would make >Mr. Furley...???
Well... in your theory we could make Furley the hypno-therapist... or maybe the old man in Fatal Tragedy ;)
Or Mr. ROper. Just imagine Don Knotts saying: "Lad did you know a girl was murdered here, this fatal tragedy was talked about for years.." etc lol.
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:41:35 -0600 From: Brad Plumb <bplumb@pi-r-squared.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: The voice of dissent (burn the heretic!!) **spoiler** Message-ID: <2.2.32.19991031174135.016154f0@pi-r-squared.com>
>Overall, after a few listens, my opinion (I've been behind in reading the >jam lately - new job! - but it seems that this has been quite commonly >bandied around) is that the album is a three-way cross between Tales of >Topographic Oceans, The Wall, and The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. In fact, >let's be honest, after an awful lot of listens, the album seems more to sum >up DT's career thusfar than break new ground (apart from the constant ad >nauseum Metro1 references, there's bits that sound naggingly like Voices, >the end of Scarred, etc.), and the whole album could better be titled >"Images of the Awakened Lamb Lies Down & Falls Into Infinite Topographic >Walls". Even knowing the tunes inside out can't detract from the fact that >there are sections that seem a little jerky; more so than, say, LTE2.
THat's exactly what makes it new, great, and the culmination of their careers though! Each album before this one could stand on its own as a different band and a different sound. The band obviously learned from the experience of each of those albums and took the best elements from all three and COMBINED THEM. They say if you cross genres, you create something new and interesting. It's exactly what DT needed, wanted, and were meant to do. It's the album they've been trying to make all this time.
Palpatine Co Founder of NARF: The North Houston Anime Resistance Force, and Historian of Anime-no-kai "Thank God I'm an atheist" -Luis Bunel "What an incredible smell you've discovered" -Han Solo, Star Wars: A New Hope "He said I was crazy, and it's not true! Although I did try to burn his house down once..." - Werner Herzog regarding Klaus Kinski
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 11:39:31 -0600 From: "Al @ Switchcraft" <al@isd.net> To: retaehT maerD <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re:Rubber Dildos? Message-ID: <381C7ED3.E32EFF3A@isd.net>
DTGirl2612 wrote: >Rubber Dildos? I thought they were made of plastic!
That's because you use those cheap consumer grade ones. A true Dildophile uses the hi-end rubber ones.
Amateur... :o) -- Al - The Ytse-ProGtologist ^ Switchcraft Microsystems ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ When you live in the land of 10,000 lakes, it's nice to know that all men are created equal in cold water.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 13:17:05 -0500 From: "Mike Patrick" <mvpatrick@home.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: I keep trying...more SFaM musings Message-ID: <004001bf23cc$2491d1e0$6da20418@CT466024-A.nblvil1.in.home.com>
I'm just not getting it, but I finally figured out WHY I'm not getting it while explaining in the newsgroup why I'm not getting it.
Is it just me? I really think if you listen to this album vs., say, I&W that DT has really evolved into a hard rock band that hasn't completely given up on its 'progressive' tendancies and that can still shred its collective ass off. That doesn't mean it doesn't rock, it just rocks in a much more AOR type of way. Still, I would argue that they have kind of moved away from what we would, until now, have called 'progmetal'. The time changes, etc. are still there, but not nearly as often - DT is a band now that finds a riff and locks into it for a while. I mean there are long instrumental stetches on this album where the riff/progression really doesn't change - they just solo over the same rhythm, something that they moved to with FII and have taken further here.
Can nobody else see this?
Not that it's bad - I keep saying that it's a good album, but there's other things grabbing me more these days - things grabbing me for the exact opposite reasons I've stated above.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:23:16 -0500 From: "Daniel T. Chen" <daniel_chen@unc.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: SFaM - Free Copy (now closed) Message-ID: <381C9724.E9294EB2@unc.edu>
Okay folks, Thanks to all who emailed me. I wish there were a more unbiased way to do this, but UTC is our friend (I guess :-).
Triin Randlane is the lucky 'jammer.
In any case, as the subject says, the "contest" of sorts is now closed as of 31 Oct '99 2:21 PM EDT.
-d
-- Daniel T. Chen chenda@cs.unc.edu NP : Kenny Wayne Shepherd - Slow Ride
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:33:14 -0500 From: "Michael G. Benoit" <michael.g.benoit@worldnet.att.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: The D.H. Lawrence/Dream Theater connection Message-ID: <381C997A.3F91BC24@worldnet.att.net>
Alright. This may be nothing at all but I thought I'd mention it. I noticed that on the back of the booklet with the picture of the newspaper there is a stack of books. The bottom book is the only one which is legible. It happens to be a copy of The Plumed Serpent by D.H. Lawrence. Now, for those of you who don't know (not that you should), Lawrence died in 1930 and he wrote this novel in 1926. Halfway between these two major events in his life comes 1928, the time when SFAM takes place. OK, so that's stretching it. However, he was born on Victoria Street. Now that's interesting! Also, the main character in the novel goes by the name of Kate Leslie. She is a woman who has two husbands. She divorces the first one and the second one dies. Some similarities here anyway. And finally, "the plumed serpent" is another name for Quetzalcoat. Quetzalcoatl happens to be an Aztec god who was driven out of Mexico by the god of the night and is expected to return. He is a symbol of death and resurrection. Coincidence? I think not. Given the band's literary leanings (after all, Met. Pt. 1 was based on Virgil's The Aeneid, was it not?) I am convinced it was deliberately put there to give us a clue. Maybe Nicholas is Julian. Quetzecoatl is shown as being lightskinned and bearded and Julian "went away" and then returned. But I will read the novel first and see if there are any other connections I can make. By the by, this is an absolutely incredible album and has reinforced by belief that Dream Theater is the most innovative group out there. It doesn't get better than this. Until the next album, of course! LOL! See ya'll later!
PS: Hey, Mike Portnoy. If you read this, can you tell me if I'm right at all! That'd be awesome!
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 17:39:25 -0200 From: "Adriano F. Giacomini" <randy_rhoads@dreamtheater.zzn.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Victoria = I&W cover girl? Message-ID: <199910311135530@randy_rhoads.dreamtheater.zzn.com>
>Now, is there any connection between the young child Nicholas is >speaking (thinking?) to in that stanza and the girl on the cover of >I&W? >Could that be Victoria herself, maybe? After all, her thick, curly >hairstyle does remind me a bit of Shirley Temple, who was popular >around >the 1920's, I'm told.
You know what? I'm starting to think that too... Someone posted a few days ago asking if Victoria was that girl, and then said the girl in the cover couldn't be Victoria 'cause that's the girl mentioned in Wait for Sleep... But if you take WFS lyrics, KevMo wrote: "Hoping that the memory will leave her spirit soon", and later: "She stares at the ceiling and tries not to think/And pictures the chain she's been trying to link again"... Since Victoria came back as Nick, can this her/she be her spirit embodied in Nick? I mean, this memories have been haunting him, and he's trying to figure what they mean...
I know this wasn't supposed to be the original meaning of the song, according to Kevin, but putting it all together, it made a hell lot of sense to me... What do u guys think?
P.S.: The album continues to grow, it gets better and better with every listen... :-)
Later, Adriano
"A daily dose of eMpTyV will flush your mind right down the drain" DREAM THEATER Dream Theater newsletter - http://www.dreamtheater.net/uacmmail/ ___________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:40:40 -0500 From: "Michael G. Benoit" <michael.g.benoit@worldnet.att.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: going along with the D.H. Lawrence thing Message-ID: <381C9B38.5EBCDEFA@worldnet.att.net>
I just happened to find this poem by Lawrence entitled "Piano". It is Jordan Rudess-like beautiful. And I think the last stanza especially might be pertinent. Just food for thought.
Softly, in the dusk, a woman is singing to me; Taking me back down the vista of years, till I see A child sitting under the piano, in the boom of the tingling strings And pressing the small, poised feet of a mother who smile as she sings. In spite of myself, the insidious mastery of song Betrays me back, till the heart of me weeps to belong To the old Sunday evenings at home, with winter outside And hymns in the cosy parlour, the tinkling piano our guide. So now it is vain for the singing to burst into clamour With the great black piano appassionato. The glamour Of childish days is upon me, my manhood is cast Down in the flood of remembrance, I weep like a child for the past.
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 19:44:49 GMT From: "Heikki Kemppinen" <hkemppinen@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: LTE tabs Message-ID: <19991031194449.97509.qmail@hotmail.com>
I just read the transcript of the live chat that was held at mikeportnoy.com a couple of nights ago. I noticed there was a person with the nick "LTEtabs". If anyone knows this guy's e-mail address PLEASE post it to the jam! I think he (or she) had transcribed lte 1 and 2. I'd LOVE to get my hands on those transcriptions!!
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 14:52:27 -0500 From: "Michael G. Benoit" <michael.g.benoit@worldnet.att.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: one last thing about D.H./DT Message-ID: <381C9DFB.C5AC1B7F@worldnet.att.net>
Sorry, I just discovered one last connection. In 1928, D.H. Lawrence wrote his novel Lady Chatterley's Lover. The plot is quite similar in some ways to SFAM. It involves a high class woman who cheats on her stuffy aristocratic husband with a lower-class man (the game keeper). There are the three main characters (can you say Edward, Julian, and Victoria?) and one of them gets left out of the triangle, leaving the husband rather unhappy, wouldn't you think? Of course, in the novel the husband is paralyzed but you can't have everything being the same, now can you? And the woman does it to "break free" and give in to her natural instincts. Same time, similar story. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I tend to think not. Well, that's my two cents or so for today. Good bye!
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:20:02 -0500 (EST) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: a slight light on the mystery Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910311518250.34046-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sun, 31 Oct 1999, Lionel wrote:
> "The simplest and most uneventful reason is usually the correct one": > Occham's Razor.
Ahh, but you left out an important part of the theorem: "All things being equal, the simplest reason is the correct one." And that's ALWAYS. The simplest reason is ALWAYS the correct one, BUT that's when all things are equal. The theorem just doesn't work unless that given is there. ;)
Just thought I'd stir the pot a little.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- Before you criticize somebody, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you DO criticize him, you'll be a mile away AND you'll have his shoes. -------------------------------------------------
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:21:25 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: MAJOR discovery Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.9910311509050.30278-100000@RyansPC.com>
I had my girlfriend listen to the cd, and she recognized the same similarities that you did. It sure does seem to fit into the story. Durring the shooting, you can hear glass breaking, and in Surrounded it says:
When I head the stained glass shatter all around me I sent the spirits tumbling down the hill
It would fit if the Hypnotherapist is saying this, as a reincarnated Miracle, as he is the only one that would have said:
She was dancing thru the night above his bed
Ryan On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Rob Grant wrote:
> > There is a DEFINATE connection between Metropolis (the whole thing) and > Surrounded. First of all, Nicholas says he is "safe in the light that > surrounds [him]"; that part is obvious. If you look closer, however, there > are many references to Julian breaking free from his drug/gambling/etc. > addiction(s). > > For example: > - "The shadow I've been hiding in has fled from me today" > - "She will slowly yield the light as I awaken from the longest night" > - "Once lost but I was found" > - "Now there's only habits left to break" > > What do you all think? >
__________________________________________________________ .' Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com> - http://www.ryanspc.com `. | PGP Key: http://www.ryanspc.com/pgp.txt | `----------------------------------------------------------'
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:22:45 -0500 (EST) From: Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Comments on Edward's identity Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.20.9910311521430.30278-100000@RyansPC.com>
Listen to how he comes through the door and walks toward Nicholas, that doesn't sound like a 101 year old man walking =)
Ryan
On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Rob Grant wrote:
> > I believe that Edward was the hypnotherapist from the beginning; he did not > reincarnate as him or become him after commiting the murders. At some > point, however, he became a senator, so it was added to the cast of > characters as a red herring of sorts. >
__________________________________________________________ .' Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com> - http://www.ryanspc.com `. | PGP Key: http://www.ryanspc.com/pgp.txt | `----------------------------------------------------------'
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Date: Sun, 31 Oct 1999 15:45:16 -0500 From: Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Comments on Edward's identity Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991031154516.007e6100@pop.mw.mediaone.net>
He doesn't have to be that old :P
The murder headline calls Victoria a "young girl," so I would imagine that she couldn't have been older than mid-20s. Julian's age would be similar (I hope, hehe), and Edward would be the same age as Julian (they're twins). So, say that when Nick goes to see Edward the Shrink, he's about the same age that Julain was when he was killed. That puts Edward's age in his 40s.
At 12:29 PM 10/31/99 -0800, you wrote: > >Listen to how he comes through the door and walks toward Nicholas, that >doesn't sound like a 101 year old man walking =) > >Ryan > >On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Rob Grant wrote: > >> >> I believe that Edward was the hypnotherapist from the beginning; he did not >> reincarnate as him or become him after commiting the murders. At some >> point, however, he became a senator, so it was added to the cast of >> characters as a red herring of sorts. >> > > __________________________________________________________ > .' Ryan Veety <ryan@ryanspc.com> - http://www.ryanspc.com `. > | PGP Key: http://www.ryanspc.com/pgp.txt | > `----------------------------------------------------------' > >
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5159 **************************
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