YTSEJAM Digest 5157
Today's Topics:
1) What do you think? DUH!
by Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
2) Free fantasy basketball/ thoughts on lyrics
by TEDESCO MATTHEW A <Matthew.Tedesco@Colorado.EDU>
3) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5156
by "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com>
4) Re: Get it, Serious stuff, Out Damned LaBrie
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
5) Re: What do you think? DUH!
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
6) Re: Free fantasy basketball/ thoughts on lyrics
by NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
7) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5156
by "Daniel T. Chen" <daniel_chen@unc.edu>
8) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5156
by "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com>
9) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5155
by "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu>
10) Re: What do you think? DUH!
by "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu>
11) Re: my hero of the day
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
12) Re: ramblings
by "Mike Patrick" <mvpatrick@home.com>
13) What if...
by Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
14) Do the DT guys themselves believe in reincarnation?
by O-P Komonen <op777@surffi.net>
15) RE: YTSEJAM digest 5149
by "indii" <indii@vistatech.net>
16) Themes From a Memory: Variations on a Theme by Dream Theater
by Benjamin James Gateno <bg003i@mail.rochester.edu>
17) Jay's babblings on SFAM
by Jay Omega <jomega@legarto.minn.net>
18) Another theory ***SPOILERS***
by Adam Perkowsky <perk1994@yahoo.com>
19) Re:NOTICE! Big spoiler on the end of SFAM!
by Martin Nyman <martin-nyman@telia.com>
20) MAJOR discovery
by Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net>
21) Comments on Edward's identity
by Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net>
22) Whoops! Sorry! (Was: DT 12/10 @ Toad's Place? No December shows? Which is it?)
by Mike A Marshall <marshallm@juno.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:14:42 -0400
From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com>
To: YTSEJAM <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: What do you think? DUH!
Message-ID: <381B0B62.3BBCD594@home.com>
I remember seeing some people comment on why the Nicholas is listening
to a record player at the end, instead of a CD or something........
It occurred to me today that it's probably because a record is WAY more
convenient to help tell the story. We can tell from the record getting
disturbed that there was some kind of struggle. What would we hear if
he was listening to a CD?
- Joe D.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 09:53:09 -0600 (MDT)
From: TEDESCO MATTHEW A <Matthew.Tedesco@Colorado.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Free fantasy basketball/ thoughts on lyrics
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.991030094101.4473A-100000@ucsub.colorado.edu>
2 slots still open in ytsehoops yahoo fantasy basketball!
ID# 49292
password: victoria
Join... it'll be good quality fun.
About SFaM....
My first reaction to the footage from JFK Jr.'s death was in the words of
the report themselves, about it being yet another in a long line of
tragedies. Putting aside the fact that the news report itself is a direct
reference to the Kennedy family, the importance of the report in the
context of the album seemed to me to refer to the connection through time
and lives of the various lovers. So, count me in that camp.
That aside... am I the only one who (at least at first) pretty much avoids
the lyrics? So many of the albums I have, I never bother to read the
lyrics, instead focusing on the *music*. I mean, it's happened more than
once that cheesy lyrics have turned me off to a song or an album.
Sometimes it's tough to avoid (sorry Mike, but "Twisting, turning, losing
all sense of yearning"... OUCH), but by an large, I don't usually bother
reading lyrics until I know a song well enough that I know the lyrical
melody but can't figure out the words without reading them. An example
would be Caught in a Web, "Try to push me 'round the world some more..."
and from there on in, it lost me.
So, I personally haven't opened the lyrics to read them more than once or
twice, and those times were nothing more than cursory glances. Instead,
I've been putting the album on and just *listening*... and that's been
more than enough to make my week a lot better.
--mt
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:17:50 -0400
From: "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5156
Message-ID: <000b01bf22f2$51363400$1c99accf@rfbow>
>
> I figured out the mystery as well about why Edward is a hynotherapist.
He's
> always been a psychologist, from the outset of the story. It was this
that
> prompted Veronica to reach out to him and tell him of her troubles with
> Julian in the hopes that he might help her. Rather than offer advice on
how
> to act or to support her on how to handle the situation, though, he just
> bones her. Not good practice nowdays, I think. :)
>
Who's Veronica? Victoria's telepathically linked twin? :-)
>Veronica is then reincarnated as Nicholas. Ther story begins in 1928 and
>ends in 1963. Although, I'm thinking the TV report may be about Robert
>Kennedy's death (as it refers to a long string of misfortunes rather than a
>single one) which was what, in 1968? (can't recall)
Mike himself confirmed in the impromptu chat last night on mikeportnoy.com
that the TV report IS about JFK Jr's death (no one else, like his dad or
uncle) and that it IS indeed to establish the time period of the piece. So
the "present " is definitely 1999, not the 1960's or whatever. So, now at
least *that's* settled.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:25:19 -0700
From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Get it, Serious stuff, Out Damned LaBrie
Message-ID: <381B461F.893249A3@wezl.org>
Soeaking of smoking crack...can you be serious??? James is TOTALLY a studio
vocalist...in the studio he sounds great (for James), live is where he almost
completely misses...his stage presence is almost non-existant...especially
compared to Mike or John P's...half his words are slurred really bad, a crack
hear, a crack there...not to bash James or anything, he can sing the songs a
hell of a lot better than I ever could, but I think his strengths are definetly
in the studio.
Edward Polzin wrote:
>
> I hope you arent also implying that you prefer Mickey Mouse, ohh, i mean
> Charlie. Have to defend Labrie on this one. In my opinion, he conveys A
> LOT of emotion. Not as much in the studio as he does live though. james is
> definitely better live than in the studio. but this is all my opinion.
> later.
>
> Edward Polzin
> Live and Rare Recordings
> http://polzin.home.mindspring.com
>
> CD Liner Downloads
> http://members.xoom.com/polzin322
>
> Go Illini!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:27:09 -0700
From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: What do you think? DUH!
Message-ID: <381B468D.41CC5D5A@wezl.org>
If it was a cheap-ass CD player you'd think you CD was all screwed up, and
probably would've returned it...thoroughly pissed that your brand new DT cd
skips at the end...hehe guess Vinyl does have a use in the 90's still :)
Joe DeAngelo wrote:
> I remember seeing some people comment on why the Nicholas is listening
> to a record player at the end, instead of a CD or something........
>
> It occurred to me today that it's probably because a record is WAY more
> convenient to help tell the story. We can tell from the record getting
> disturbed that there was some kind of struggle. What would we hear if
> he was listening to a CD?
>
> - Joe D.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:29:48 -0700
From: NuGgeTMaN <emoeglin@wezl.org>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Free fantasy basketball/ thoughts on lyrics
Message-ID: <381B472C.855EF2DD@wezl.org>
I'm the exact same way...to be honest the only reason I got involved in all
this SFaM detective work is be cause MattyMo made me...it's all his fault,
damn crack smokers! Music is so more enjoyable than words
TEDESCO MATTHEW A wrote:
> That aside... am I the only one who (at least at first) pretty much avoids
> the lyrics? So many of the albums I have, I never bother to read the
> lyrics, instead focusing on the *music*.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:30:41 -0400
From: "Daniel T. Chen" <daniel_chen@unc.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5156
Message-ID: <381B1D31.B58132D5@unc.edu>
Mike Patrick on ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote:
>
> This is the first DT album that I do not feel compelled to listen to
> repeatedly. I've gotten a lot of music lately, and this one has sort of
> consigned itself to the pile. Why?
Wow, someone else who feels the same way. I am definitely not
disappointed with SFaM-- on the contrary, I think it has been in my
CD-ROM ever since it was unwrapped Tuesday. Unfortunately, I acquired a
*lot* of music immediately preceding SFaM, and so I'm taking the time to
listen to that now. After all, a 77-minute epic is indeed an epic, and
now I find myself slipping peacefully into a much-needed slumber while
listening to SFaM.
> It feels too long. I've said it before, but somewhere around 'Home' and
> 'DoE', I start to check my fingernails for dirt, notice spots on the wall
> that could stand another coat of paint, etc. If this albums were 77 minutes
> and full of individual songs, I don't think it'd be this way, and I suppose
> that some would argue that these ARE individual songs, but it doesn't feel
> that way to me.
I don't feel it's too long; I simply acquired too much interesting music
simultaneously with SFaM. Of course this makes it feel like SFaM is a
bit lengthy due to the shorter nature of some of these *other* songs...
> I'm one of those weirdoes who actually thought, with the exception of a
> couple of short songs, that FII was a good evolution for the band. The
> material on that album was really diverse (as it was on Awake and to a
> lesser extent, I&W). I always point to 'Lines in the Sand' as an example
> and I certainly don't expect every album to contain a LitS remake, but that
> song exemplifies FII as a whole - hard, heavy, light, jazzy, very deep and
> twisting. SFaM, OTOH, really lacks that diversity. Well, yeah, there ARE
> extremes to be found everywhere (and a choir, and...etc.), but the extremes
> mostly tend toward light acoustic songs or full-on sonic assaults. There
> are long musical stretches that don't strike me as really GOING anywhere.
> Maybe that's one of the prices one has to pay for DT sort of evolving into
> more of a jamming, groove-oriented band.
I really dig DT's "evolution" of sorts through their discography.
Unfortunately, some of my fav songs aren't on any albums (and I don't
have any singles, =/ ), like "Eve," "Speak to Me," and "To Live
Forever." To that end, I have resorted to various live shows (in
varying degrees of coherence, of course ;-). I agree with someone's
comment that James conveys more emotion live (or at least this version
of "Speak to Me" on the Xmas '98 CD does ;-). One of the things I
really like about SFaM is that James seems more restrained, but I can
definitely "feel" the emotion "oozing" out of his "performance." I
think the only other album to date that has captured the like is the
soundtrack to the musical, "Rent."
> Jordan: Call me a nut, but I like his role/performance on the LTE stuff
> more than I do here. A) His playing is much more integral on the LTE stuff,
> and B) There are spots in the mix on SFaM where he just gets buried over.
> Jordan's playing and tones are very percussive and textural, and they need
> elbowroom to come off that way. I don't think he gets that here.
Hrm. I can't decide about Jordan until I see DT live, but I'm sure I
won't be disappointed. Parts of SFaM convey very evidently the Derek
spark, and I think Jordan plays them with finesse. LTE is a much more
groove-oriented jam that it's difficult to achieve coherence without
being "integral."
> Speaking of mix, with the exception of FII, I feel fortunate to EVER hear
> John Myung, but on SFaM that's not a problem - at least at the beginning of
> the album. I'm VERY cognizant of his playing until about halfway through
> the album.
I adore John Myung's style. Being a bassist (or rather, I *attempt* to
play, as these records keep proving that there are *so* many better
tones... ;-), getting lost in the mix is rather easy. There are quite
a few "flash" bassists (Flea from RHCP comes to mind) who are quite
good, but in prog bands the bassist is forced to step into the forefront
and actually do something other than just rhyme along with the drummer.
To this end, Myung is amazing. It's true that on _Awake_ I can barely
distinguish him, but his presence is still there.
In closing, I really dig SFaM, but I'm going to take a break.
Overloading on the album is *not* healthy. ;-) Time for some Vanden
Plas, some of DT's Xmas '98 stuff, some Yanni... oops, how did that slip
in there?! ;-)... some Mendelssohn, some Gordian Knot, etc., etc.
Keep 'jamming.
-d
-- Daniel T. Chen chenda@cs.unc.edu NP : DT - Lifting Shadows off a Dream (Xmas '98)------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:32:41 -0400 From: "Rob Bowen" <rfbow@erols.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5156 Message-ID: <002f01bf22f4$64319980$1c99accf@rfbow>
<<It is not a question of being upset or sense of humour or so... Technic= >ally >and musically it is really okay, it just does NOT fit into the rest of th= >e >song - IMHO.>>
>I agree with you. In some instances -- Silent Sorrow by the Flower Kings= >, for >example -- some deviations from the mood can actually work to the betterm= >ent >of the piece... but while I enjoy the music, isolated, it really doesn't= >fit >for me inside the context of the song.
>mjt
Although that song (DOE) is so crazy and all over the place it seems like it would be hard for anything to actually sound like it *fit*, I always assumed that the ragtime/honytonk or whatever piano part is an allusion to the 1928 time period. I don't think it's there for humor or for simple technical wackiness.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:44:59 -0400 From: "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5155 Message-ID: <003301bf22f6$1ac0b7c0$702010ac@clemson.edu>
]From: <Stixntrixx@aol.com> Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5155
> Trust me, it's JFK, Jr. I was watching ABC's coverage of it and Peter > Jennings uttered that exact phrase.
doesnt mean it's JFK, Jr. in the story.
> The only problem with that is that unless during the session the hynotist > went through Nick's wallet to find out where he lived, he would have to > follow him home, meaning that he would have to arrive after Nick. Of course,
perhaps he had nick's address on file. moo.
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:54:56 -0400 From: "TheCowGod" <demccor@clemson.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: What do you think? DUH! Message-ID: <005101bf22f7$7e5aa740$702010ac@clemson.edu>
]From: Joe DeAngelo <jdeangelo@home.com> Subject: What do you think? DUH!
> convenient to help tell the story. We can tell from the record getting > disturbed that there was some kind of struggle. What would we hear if > he was listening to a CD?
we would hear the cd start skipping for 30 seconds, and people would write to the jam asking if they had a defective copy, a la PMU. oh wait, that happened anyway. moo.
*** END OF TRANSMISSION ***
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:02:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: my hero of the day Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.9910301300430.78292-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Schnipp - wrote:
> hi all, has to be Korg X3, because that makes sense, and great deal of > it. Just one more question: what has victoria to wake up from(open > your eyes victoria)? > seb
He doesn't say "Open your eyes, Victoria" to get her to wake up, but rather because she's so scared she's shut them in fear. When you're frightened, the first thing you do as an instinct is to shut your eyes and wait for it to go away. He was just telling her to keep her eyes open because he wanted her to SEE everything that was going to happen to her and Julian.
At least, that's MY take on it.
------------------------------------------------- Andrew Coutermarsh a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu http://cout.dhs.org/ Cloak on IRC ICQ: 2513441 ------------------------------------------------- The only stupid question is the one that is never asked, except maybe "Don't you think it's about time you audited my tax return?" or "But officer, isn't it morally wrong to give me a warning when, in fact, I was speeding?" -------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 12:13:39 -0400 From: "Mike Patrick" <mvpatrick@home.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ramblings Message-ID: <004701bf22f1$ba4af300$6da20418@CT466024-A.nblvil1.in.home.com>
>> For what it's worth, for me, this honor falls to either Mayadome or >> Clockwork. Toss up. Both of which, as I've pointed out here before, >> everyone on this list needs to own.
>I know nothing about Mayadome
Their new album, Near Life Experience, is insanely great - they are admittedly (the band admits to it even) I&W influenced, but they are tight, focused and their singer is a cross betwen a mid-range Tate or Kahn. Great stuff. Teddy Moller's drumming is just this side of insane.
> but to me, Clockwork sounds EXACTLY like > Soundscape.
The Soundscape with Todd Rose (his name is Todd, isn't it?) on guitar? He's an AWESOME talent, but their singer THORNE (I capitalize it because if you've ever visited their Web site, it's pretty obvious that THORNE is convinced he ties God's shoes every morning) make dogs howl. Clockwork, while being VERY vocally ambitious, never quite reaches ear-shattering levels. There is SO much depth to the Clockwork stuff, really - the ethnic stuff is just the tip of the iceberg.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 10:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Johnston <matt2518@gladstone.uoregon.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: What if... Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.991030101120.25033A-100000@gladstone.uoregon.edu>
Here's a meaty bit to discuss...
What if the Victoria/Edward/Julian thing wasn't the first time it had happened? Maybe this thing's been going on since Remus/Romulus back in the very old days. Think about it -- Victoria may very well be haunted by the same dreams Nicholas is. In Home, she pours her soul to Edward (which I agree with Korg is a psychologist who may become a politician *later*), and feels really good afterwards (for Victoria/Edward, this is after the affair, but for Nicholas/Hypno the rapist it's many sessions of regression therapy). Then, Edward (Hypno) kills Victoria (Nicholas) not out of spite so much as out of a fatalistic sense of destiny.
Okay, maybe not, but it seems to work okay. I originally thought of this as a way to explain the girl on the cover of I&W as being Victoria, but of course she's the girl from Wait For Sleep (my GOD! There's other songs on that album!), so...
There you go. --Matt
----------------------------------------------------------------------- "I like to go to art museums and name the untitled paintings... 'Boy With Pail'... 'Kitten On Fire'..." --Steven Wright ------------------------------- The Cafe Pierrot: Quality Original and Series-Based Anime Fanfiction http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~matt2518/ Last Updated on Oct. 18th Next Scheduled Update: Oct. 28th -----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 20:45:37 +0300 From: O-P Komonen <op777@surffi.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Do the DT guys themselves believe in reincarnation? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991030204537.0073f254@trade.hamkk.fi>
I saw a John P. clinic last friady, and while he was trying to convince one of the guys in audience to come and try to play the beginning of Paradigm Shift, he said: "You only live once..."
So I think at least John P. doesn't believe in it.
:P <- notice this
op777
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:43:55 -0400 From: "indii" <indii@vistatech.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: YTSEJAM digest 5149 Message-ID: <LPBBLFELJFHMJGEAFNIDKEGICAAA.indii@vistatech.net>
Alexander wrote, and thus inspired me:
You should (the person who I am quoting below), and everyone else on this list should read the "Otherland" series by Tad Williams (4 books, 3 of which are complete). It will be quite an investment of time (each book is like 700 pages), but it combines all of the elements of fantasy, virtual reality, mystery, etc. I think any DT fan, esp. if you like puzzles and mysteries like SFaM would get into this series just as much as they are into DT. I'm serious, there is that much depth to this story. Also, it gets into a lot of subjects like the one this other jammer that I have quoted below was talking about.
I total agree with you here. I LOVE "OTHERLAND"! It's very conplex, and requires a reader with a great imagination. The VR environments are WELL thought out and you can see influences from other amazing authors, real life, movies, etc.... All of the main characters have well thought out backgrounds, ALL have thier share of problems. NO typical "perfect male hero" stuff here. HIGHLY recomendable!!!
I know only a few of you will actually read this, and even less will actually go out and buy the books... but I just feel compelled to tell you all about it (I just finished the 3rd book), and I have the same feelings of excitement about sharing them with friends (you guys) as I do sharing SFaM with my other friends.
I also would be willing to supply any info on this. You can check out some online info at www.tadwilliams.com and read some chapter inserts (remember though, he is on the third book, so you might have to search for chapter insert for the firts book).
Alexander, i'm in the middle of the third book when Renie and group find Martime and Quan Li in the House. Amazing so far, especially the last chapter when the lawyer meets Mr. Sellers in Middle Country. VERY suprising ending.
indii
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:57:11 -0400 From: Benjamin James Gateno <bg003i@mail.rochester.edu> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Themes From a Memory: Variations on a Theme by Dream Theater Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.10.9910301350130.3332183-100000@mail1.ats.rochester.edu>
Is it just me, or is Dream Theater the masters of using previous thematic material? I'm just impressed at how cleverly they infuse Met. Pt. 1 into everything.
Also, no one has really raised this question:
Did DT (especially John Petrucci) have this story in mind when writing Pt. 1 ten years ago?
One more question: Is Petrucci NOT the greatest lickmeister ever??!!!!
Ben
P.S. Lovers of "Dance of Eternity" should check out Gershwin's "An American in Paris." I just saw the symphony play it last night....INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 13:00:12 -0500 (CDT) From: Jay Omega <jomega@legarto.minn.net> To: Just Words <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Jay's babblings on SFAM Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.9910301218410.17449-100000@legarto.minn.net>
Just decided that I'd play devil's advocate, and try to come up with an alternate view of the album's story. After all, the band said it was supposed to be tough to figure out...
Given: The double-murder-framed-as-murder/suicide happened as written. Nick and Vic are the same soul. The murder took place in 1928. The present is 1999. (from the Portnoy chat)
I don't think these are disputable at this point.
What is disputable that's been mentioned here: Ed/Hypnotist are the same soul, and Nick has both Vic's and Julian's souls.
My thoughts:
1. The 'cast of characters' seems to be missing one person... In the present, Nick "...traveled to another home, I met an older man, he seemed to be alone..."
This older man said "A girl was murdered here, This fatal tragedy was talked about for years"
It was also stated about Vic and Julian that "they'd rendezvous, in a pathway out of view, they thought no one knew, then came a shot out of the night."
Now, if Vic/Jules were murdered on a "pathway", but still at this old man's "home", it must be a big, manor & grounds type place. The use of the stately-looking Bear Tracks Studio pic (as "Home"?) supports this.
An "older man" in a manor could certainly be a retired rich senator... and if "older man" was Ed, they wouldn't be missing someone in the "cast of characters". Granted, he'd be 101 years old, but that age isn't completely unheard of. I've got a great-uncle who's 98, give or take a year, and still quite in control of his faculties and memories.
Also, Nick "tried to get more answers," and was told by the old man "you're on your own". By that wording, the old man knew something. So he was either Ed, a reincarnated Ed, or a reincarnated Julian. Him being "the original Ed" makes the most sense with what's above. Also, after 71 years, he probably regretted killing his lover and brother in a fit of passion, and, at his age, wouldn't care much if Nick found out the truth or not, but still wouldn't admit to the double murder himself.
2. The last line of the album, said by Nick: "we'll meet again, my friend, someday soon." If Nick is Vic reincarnated, when he dies, _one_ soul will continue on, which is both Nick and Vic. He can't "meet" her, since they're the same person. If Nick/Vic/Jules are all together in the same body, they'd have no one to "meet" soon, since they're together already. So, I think that last line was Nick/Vic talking to Jules, and doing a little foreshadowing... (This also means the last line is separate from the two stanzas before it, which were Nick 'talking to' Vic, but really just 'thinking out loud' to himself, justifying his odd dreams about her. Since Jules wasn't around for the last line, that's really 'thinking out loud,' too.)
3. That, however, leaves the hypnotist as being someone other than a reincarnated Ed. So why did the hypnotist sneak in and attack Nick in the end?
The hypnotist is a reincarnated Julian. He had dreams of Julian's, and became a hypnotherapist to try to track down whoever was having Victoria's dreams. All through the album, he's a man ruled by his passions... drugs, gambling, his brother's woman... When he found out that the love of his (the dance of) Eternity was temporarily tied up in a man's body, he decides to pull off the murder/suicide for real, and give them another chance to be together in their next lives.
--Jay "may hurt himself thinking so much" Omega --NP: DT - SFAM
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Adam Perkowsky <perk1994@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Another theory ***SPOILERS*** Message-ID: <19991030181611.24380.rocketmail@web704.mail.yahoo.com>
Hello everyone, It seems that everyday I come up with a different theory.
The first part of my theory is: The "Open your eyes, Nicholas" that we hear just before the scream and the needle skipping is the psychotherapist waking Nicholas from another regression. Remember, the title of the album is "Scenes From a Memory," so I believe Nicholas is waking up from one of these "scenes" at the very end, and he screams as if he just awoke from a bad dream. The needle from the record is jarred by the psychotherapist when he is startled from Nicholas' scream. Does anybody know if playing soothing music is something hypnotists use in order to wake someone up from a regression? Considering that "Finally Free" takes place mostly in the past, Nicholas still has got to be in regression during this time, rather than driving home. Plus, if you listen to the "Open your eyes, Nicholas", it is the therapist's voice but it has the same tone as when he was waking Nicholas up from earlier sessions. There is no tone that says "I'm going to kill you!"
I still believe Nicholas is the reincarnation of at least Victoria AND Julian. During "Home", all three men (Edward, Julian and Nicholas) talk about going back to "my home". During "One Last Time", Nick says he's going to "his" bedroom". The "home" I believe is Edward and Julian's childhood home.
Someone on an earlier 'Jam suggested the story is like a Greek tragedy, where the death of Julian and Victoria happen over and over again. Note that the "suicide note" from "Beyond This Life" is different from the note from "Finally Free." Could the death scene from "Finally Free" be a different one than the one from "Beyond This Life"?
One thing that keeps on puzzling me is that Mike has said that the story is similar to "Pulp Fiction". Why did he say "Pulp Fiction" and not another movie that was based around visions of the past? Nobody in Pulp Fiction had visions of the past. The thing that was different about PF was that scenes did not go in chronological order.
********STOP NOW IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN PULP FICTION********.
John Travolta's character is actually killed in the middle of the movie, remember? The timeline of the movie was all messed up, remember? I am starting to believe the songs or "Scenes" do not appear in chronological order. I am starting to believe that chronologically, "The Spirit Carries On" is the last "scene" and "Finally Free" came before it, maybe even before "One Last Time."
I think this is my last stab at the story. If I keep on thinking about it, I'll go nuts! :) Then again, if Nicholas IS Vic....
Take care, Adam Perkowsky
===== "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- Spinal Tap __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 21:00:48 +0200 From: Martin Nyman <martin-nyman@telia.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re:NOTICE! Big spoiler on the end of SFAM! Message-ID: <381B405F.11FDBC5A@telia.com>
Chuck Reis wrote:
>>Here is how the story ends without a slight tinge of doubt in my mind now. The clue is in the footsteps people!
When Edward shows up to the fight scene, (about 4:16 in Finally Free) his footsteps sound gravelly and crunchy. What do the footfalls of the person in the house sound like? Aye. gravelly and crunchy. In a living room?
It's gotta be da shoes. So... >>
The problem is that the murder of Victoria and Julian took place in 1928. And Nicholas gets killed in 1963 (or 99). That means Edward would have to save his shoes and the dirt under them for at least 35 years :)
-Martin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:05:37 -0400 From: Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: MAJOR discovery Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991030150537.00798be0@pop.mw.mediaone.net>
There is a DEFINATE connection between Metropolis (the whole thing) and Surrounded. First of all, Nicholas says he is "safe in the light that surrounds [him]"; that part is obvious. If you look closer, however, there are many references to Julian breaking free from his drug/gambling/etc. addiction(s).
For example: - "The shadow I've been hiding in has fled from me today" - "She will slowly yield the light as I awaken from the longest night" - "Once lost but I was found" - "Now there's only habits left to break"
What do you all think?
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 15:09:21 -0400 From: Rob Grant <robgrant@mediaone.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Comments on Edward's identity Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.19991030150921.0079be60@pop.mw.mediaone.net>
I believe that Edward was the hypnotherapist from the beginning; he did not reincarnate as him or become him after commiting the murders. At some point, however, he became a senator, so it was added to the cast of characters as a red herring of sorts.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 14:44:20 -0500 From: Mike A Marshall <marshallm@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Cc: Portnoy420@aol.com Subject: Whoops! Sorry! (Was: DT 12/10 @ Toad's Place? No December shows? Which is it?) Message-ID: <19991030.144433.-227323.0.marshallm@juno.com>
I apologize for the waste of bandwidth. When I got to work this morning, I checked MP.com, and saw the follow up message (also posted 10/27) stating that Toad's is in error.
For some reason, it didn't show up at home last night. Guess its time to update the browser.
Again, my apologies....
M.
___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.
------------------------------
End of YTSEJAM Digest 5157 **************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Apr 01 2004 - 19:07:45 EST