YTSEJAM Digest 5448
Today's Topics:
1) $25 better include a tube of KY jelly...
by Mike Patrick <mikeepatrick@yahoo.com>
2) Cable modem, NEARfest, KC
by Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
3) Re:Cable modem vs DSL? (NDTC)
by Brooks Edman <drumstik@home.com>
4) Re: Cable modem, NEARfest, KC
by "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
5) Re: Jordan & JohnP show
by "HJ Rivera" <hrivera@crp.org>
6) Re: TransAtlantic
by "Matt J Lough" <lough@home.com>
7) Re: Jordan & JohnP show
by "Matt J Lough" <lough@home.com>
8) Re:Cable modem vs DSL? (NDTC
by Robert Muise <robbm@shore.net>
9) Re: Petrucci/Rudess acoustic Concert
by "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
10) Re: Petrucci/Rudess acoustic Concert
by "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
11) re: transatlantic
by "Daniel Mikkola" <jcdrummer67@hotmail.com>
12) whoops!
by "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com>
13) res variae
by "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com>
14) Re: Petrucci/Rudess Acoustic Concert!!
by "Michele Moran" <michele@johndoe.org>
15) King Crimson (was Re: res variae)
by Mike Pelarski <jomega@minn.net>
16) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5445
by Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com>
17) Scarred Records' small interjection / Natalie Portman and I
by Ryan Whitaker <ryanwhit@swbell.net>
18) Re: ethics of selling boots part I
by Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com>
19) Re: ethics of selling bootlegs part II
by Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com>
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:04:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mike Patrick <mikeepatrick@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: $25 better include a tube of KY jelly...
Message-ID: <20000427190449.238.qmail@web1305.mail.yahoo.com>
..but make no mistake, I'd pay it too. Just a little
salty, that's all...
mike
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:30:43 -0400
From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Cable modem, NEARfest, KC
Message-ID: <20000427153043.A944@optical.mindstorm.com>
On 2000-04-27 at 11:39 -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com
<ytsejam@torchsong.com> truly believed:
> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 05:17:04 -0800 (PST)
> From: "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com>
> Subject: Trevor Rabin
>
> - whoa dude, that's funny! :) But my Guitar player Lloyd would
> launch into a 2 hour debate with you if he heard you say that. I know,
> I've been there.
I've been there, too. The problem is, most people with whom I try to
argue the merits and shortcomings of Rabin, *always* bring up Howe in
comparison. "Trevor's great because Howe sucks." "He *what*?"
"Well, he's sloppy." (Which reminds me -- why does everyone equate
"sloppy" with "bad"?)
Ugh. Give me Tales over 90210 any day of the week.
---> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 08:31:49 -0400 > From: "Steven Zebrowski" <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> > Subject: Solaris > Message-ID: <004c01bfb044$90394400$0200010a@steve> > > WTF? Only because they went over their allotted time and > WOULDN'T GET OFF THE FUCKING STAGE. Yeah, they almost stole the > show from Spock's Beard - literally.
Didn't bug me. Then again, I left after about three songs to look at CDs. The music was nothing revolutionary to me, and I got bored watching them stand there and play.
Anyone else become a Crucible addict after NEARfest?
---
> Date: Thu Apr 27 08:55:39 2000 > From: MTeiper@aol.com > Subject: Petrucci/Rudess Acoustic Concert!! > > "On Saturday, June 10th at 8:30 PM John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess > of Dream Theater will have an exclusive, first time ever performance > as a duo in an evening of unplugged music.
Damn, that's NEARfest weekend.
> Amazing... I never thought I'd be so disappointed to be on vacation > in all my life!! :-) Alas, I will be in Orlando on the day of the > concert, killing any chance of me going to this show. PLEASE PLEASE > somebody get a recording of this!
Seconded.
---
> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:05:11 EDT > From: Ultraking@aol.com > Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5443 > > I am a bass player, and as of right now I play with a pick, mostly > due to the fact that I started off playing electric guitar. I > wanted to know if anyone can recommend some good web sources for > learning to play with fingers and/or slap bass technique. I would > like some ideas on good video tapes or books on this subject, I just > cant afford to buy anything right now, thus the need for web > sources!!!! Please help me, I need to get funky!
Tapes and books and stuff aren't going to help nearly as much as just sitting and playing. You need to get used to the feel of the strings against your fingers before anything else happens. Sit and play for half an hour a day. And start with simple stuff, like Motown or AC/DC. Just get used to timing, and the pressure needed to get the sound you want.
---
> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:09:13 -0400 > From: "Sullivan,Patrick M. (E-Mail, Utilities)" > Subject: Re: Cable vs. DSL > > - You do only get 1 IP address, but there are ways around that without > giving the cable company any more money. One way is to set up one machine as > a proxy server. Another (the method I use) is to install a router. LinkSys > makes a nice broadband router that you can use to share/firewall your cable > or DSL connection. It comes with a built-in 10/100 4-port switch for about > $160.
(Oh, look, another open-source rant from D-Man!) The method I use is this: I have the cable modem going into eth0 on my Linux box, and eth1 on the Linux box goes out to a 4-port hub for my two Windows machines (well, mine, and my upstairs neighbor's, but don't tell anyone. :) The built-in firewalling and IP masqerading stuff is sufficient for just about any home application. I only have 1 real, honest-to-God IP number, but I have three machines on the Internet (4 when I get the money for more hardware) just by using open software, and I feel a lot more secure than I would if I were relying on *any* Windows technology to do it.
---
> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:19:43 CDT > From: "JM Souter" <jmsouter@hotmail.com> > Subject: burner.. > > HeY! I'm a Dallas Cowboys fan, too ! LOL
Oh, sorry, I'll use smaller words, then. :) (Go Giants!)
---
> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:12:44 PDT > From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com> > Subject: Tour of the Crimson King > > What?!? No Tony Levin?!?!?!! They must be mistaken...they HAVE to be!
It's just the way scheduling worked out. TLev had signed on to a 2-year tour with Seal (which, I understand, ended prematurely), and Bruford was busy with something else, too. Both have an open invitation from Fripp to rejoin the band whenever they want, and I understand that Tony probably will for the album after TCoL.
-d "I couldn't think of anything clever to put here" man
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough d-man@dreamt.org "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates cmerlo@mindstorm.com /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.dreamt.org/d-man \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:34:36 -0400 From: Brooks Edman <drumstik@home.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com, glyde@computermail.net Subject: Re:Cable modem vs DSL? (NDTC) Message-ID: <3908964C.A9D8430C@home.com>
Cable by far. Cable is also always on just like DSL and it is a hell of a lot faster .It is even cheaper. I get it for $40 a month ($30 for service $10 for modem lease). Dsl is like 128kbps. Cable is 500kbps. I love it and reccomend it highly. If you want more details e-mail me because I can get you a really BIG discount on installation.
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:44:19 -0400 From: "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Cable modem, NEARfest, KC Message-ID: <043a01bfb080$fa7a8860$b2589780@resnet.rochester.edu>
> Didn't bug me. Then again, I left after about three songs to look at > CDs. The music was nothing revolutionary to me, and I got bored > watching them stand there and play.
I thought their music was pretty cool, but it really irritated me when they wouldn't get off the stage.
> Anyone else become a Crucible addict after NEARfest?
Yes Sir! Here's one!
> > "On Saturday, June 10th at 8:30 PM John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess > > of Dream Theater will have an exclusive, first time ever performance > > as a duo in an evening of unplugged music. > > Damn, that's NEARfest weekend.
Check again D-Man, NEARfest is the 17th and 18th! You can go afterall! Aren't you glad I'm around to point out that you CAN blow more money on concerts?!
That's about all I have to contribute.
Scott.
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:18:34 -0400 From: "HJ Rivera" <hrivera@crp.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Jordan & JohnP show Message-ID: <01a301bfb085$c3b4acc0$b084c5cf@crp.org>
Anyone from DC or (passing through) that could give me a ride back and forth?? Please email me ASAP so I can buy tickets!
joe
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:34:47 -0400 From: "Matt J Lough" <lough@home.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: TransAtlantic Message-ID: <002201bfb088$07ca4300$636a0d18@abdn1.md.home.com>
i got my SMPTe at Best Buy. if that helps you out any way.
----- Original Message ----- ]From: <Compadre32@aol.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2000 8:20 PM Subject: TransAtlantic
> > Is the TransAtlantic CD available at any major retail stores like Circuit > City (thats where I got my LTE's)? > just wonderin > > -compadre- > President of DTaholics Anonymous > "We Care" >
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:38:35 -0400 From: "Matt J Lough" <lough@home.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Jordan & JohnP show Message-ID: <006a01bfb088$8f5c60a0$636a0d18@abdn1.md.home.com>
what JR and JP concert are you guys talking about? I would love to catch that show. I'm pissed I never caught a morgenstein/rudess project concert. . .
----- Original Message ----- ]From: HJ Rivera <hrivera@crp.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Jordan & JohnP show
> > Anyone from DC or (passing through) that could give me a ride back and > forth?? Please email me ASAP so I can buy tickets! > > joe > >
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:47:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Robert Muise <robbm@shore.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re:Cable modem vs DSL? (NDTC Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10004271646460.18564-100000@vineyard.ecosoft.com>
*snip* >Dsl is like 128kbps. Cable is 500kbps
See my previous posts about speed. =)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robb Muise "An it harm none, do as ye will" Shore.net Network Operations Center Email:robbm@shore.net Phone:781-593-3110 ext181 Cell Phone: 978-884-6423
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:35:26 PDT From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Petrucci/Rudess acoustic Concert Message-ID: <20000427213526.76694.qmail@hotmail.com>
"On Saturday, June 10th at 8:30 PM John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess of Dream Theater will have an exclusive, first time ever performance as a duo in an evening of unplugged music.
Now, when they say "unplugged", do they mean UNPLUGGED, or do they mean "jordan only uses the acoustic piano patch on his kurzy"? (Why am I asking this? WHo's gonna know?! =^P) -Fran ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:53:22 -0300 From: "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Petrucci/Rudess acoustic Concert Message-ID: <000501bfb08a$a033fbc0$37351ec8@yunque.net>
> "On Saturday, June 10th at 8:30 PM John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess of Dream > Theater will have an exclusive, first time ever performance as a duo in an > evening of unplugged music. > > Now, when they say "unplugged", do they mean UNPLUGGED, or do they mean > "jordan only uses the acoustic piano patch on his kurzy"? (Why am I asking > this? WHo's gonna know?! =^P) > -Fran >
Even if i cant go, i hope they mean a real acoustic grand piano. And maybe Jp with a nice nylon string. I wonder what kind of material they will play.. /me hopes some type of improvising or jazzy-flavored stuff.
That would truly be one of a kind.
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 15:12:11 PDT From: "Daniel Mikkola" <jcdrummer67@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: re: transatlantic Message-ID: <20000427221211.77376.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Is the TransAtlantic CD available at any major retail stores like >Circuit >City (thats where I got my LTE's)?
I have recently purchased my transatlantic cd at a Best Buy, i dont know what your 20 (location) is but i know for a fact that Best Buy carries Transatlantic.
Daniel
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:01:40 EST From: "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: whoops! Message-ID: <20000428010140.79323.qmail@hotmail.com>
sorry for the repost of the 'tallica lyrics. was intending to forward them to someone else. Forgot to change the address
D/J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:16:50 EST From: "M P" <mremann6@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: res variae Message-ID: <20000428011650.86269.qmail@hotmail.com>
>From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com> >Subject: bruford, some other points >Pye/Henderson/etc.: Does anyone still trade on tape? All this talk >of CD burners, liners, etc... Am I SOL if I want to trade and I don't >have a burner?
while on that subject, is there ANY way to obtain a REAL CD burner? Not one of the CD-R things, but the real deal. How much are they going for?
>From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com> >Subject: Tour of the Crimson King >King Crimson has a new album, The Construkction Of Light,
Is this going to be a ProjeKct? I loved ProjeKct 2, despite its aimlessness ;)
A/J
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:56:59 -0400 From: "Michele Moran" <michele@johndoe.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Petrucci/Rudess Acoustic Concert!! Message-ID: <003501bfb0b5$0ae656a0$95022640@smartworld.net>
i'm 7th row center too!
yippie!
i'm not fond of the HHPAC, I've seen two really TERRIBLE things there -- but i'm pretty sure the tech staff cannot ruin this.. even if they TRIED!
any of the jammers want to meet before hand?
Michele =========== come to dinner with me. we'll walk down the main street, all dressed up. we'll make time for coffee, i know that caffeine makes you sad but just this once, would you do that for me? 'cause up in heaven, you're a shoo-in if you open up your heart to me -- ida
an island of calm . . . www.johndoe.org/islandofcalm ----- Original Message ----- ]From: "Robb Muise" <robbm@shore.net> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Petrucci/Rudess Acoustic Concert!!
> > 7th row center... > > > i didn't even see this email come in, i just passed it on by and for some > reason it caught my eye... > > > > road trip =) > > At 06:08 AM 4/27/00 -0700, you wrote: > > >Hey gang - > > > >Sorry if this has already been posted, but in case it hasn't, I just saw > >this announcement on UACM: > > > >"On Saturday, June 10th at 8:30 PM John Petrucci and Jordan Rudess of > >Dream Theater will have an exclusive, first time ever performance as a duo > >in an evening of unplugged music. > > > >Helen Hayes Performing Arts Center > >117 Main St. > >Nyack, NY 10960 > > > >Box office number 914- 358-6333 > >Hours are M-Sat 11AM to 6pm > >Sunday noon to 6pm > >Tickets are $25.00 (twenty five dollars) > >Reserved seating" > > > >Amazing... I never thought I'd be so disappointed to be on vacation in all > >my life!! :-) Alas, I will be in Orlando on the day of the concert, > >killing any chance of me going to this show. PLEASE PLEASE somebody get a > >recording of this! > > > >Gotta run... Laterz > > > >- Matt T. > > > >NP: DT - 12/29/95 > >
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:09:13 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike Pelarski <jomega@minn.net> To: Just Words <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: King Crimson (was Re: res variae) Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10004272100550.2917-100000@legarto.minn.net>
On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, M P wrote: > >From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com> > >Subject: Tour of the Crimson King > >King Crimson has a new album, The Construkction Of Light, > > Is this going to be a ProjeKct? I loved ProjeKct 2, despite its > aimlessness ;)
Nope, it's King Crimson. Down to a four-piece, though. Just Fripp/Belew/Gunn/Mastelotto. Lots of chatter about it on rec.music.progressive recently.
Levin's not there cuz he's on tour and didn't have time, Broof isn't there cuz Fripp insisted on electronic drums of some variety, and Bruford will only play real drums (or something like that, anyway.)
--Jay "only plays air drums" Omega --NP: White Willow - Ignis Fatuus
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:49:54 -0500 From: Kurt M Hampton <kurt.hampton@juno.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5445 Message-ID: <20000427.215326.-103903.5.Kurt.Hampton@juno.com>
= first saw him live doing backup. I believe the first time I saw it was on = the Fix for 96 shows. I could be wrong. Especially on The Killing Hand = when Labrie forgot to come on stage for the vocals. =20
So this explains the "Mike you wanna do this" on the Hollow Years single. I always wondered about dat.
Speaking of dat, that reminded me of the bootleg thread. My mom thinks trading is a sin (religion teacher) Oh no. I went to the RIAA site, and their focus is on shops that copy legitimate releases, not this ytsejam list. They offer cash rewards for turning in shops with over 10 operational burners (1000 to start, then 500 for every burner past 10, upt0 5K's) They collected like 80000 copies being sold on the street of albums that should be getting 18 bucks in a CD store. I enjoy bootlegs, and don't have a problem with listening to music.
Kurt NP-Def Leppard Slang-these guys are gonna tour this summer! and not play state fairs!
"At least study the language before you talk to me" -James Labrie Tokyo Japan 1995
________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:24:41 -0500 From: Ryan Whitaker <ryanwhit@swbell.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Scarred Records' small interjection / Natalie Portman and I Message-ID: <GGEIJIFBCGCIDLIOOFMIGEHJCDAA.ryanwhit@swbell.net>
Hi everybody,
I guess it's about time for me to step in and comment on the bootleg thread that's again surfaced. =) Scott's been kind enough to send me some of his postings here, which clued me in to take a peek at the jams lately.
It's one of those topics that everybody won't agree on. Which makes it a futile argument.
But I always will offer my reasonings for running Scarred Records in the first place.
It's more *fun* than *money*. I do make money on it, but barely enough to pay the bills. Come to think of it, last month I couldn't even make rent, so I had to have my parents help out. =) If I were out to make serious money on this operation, you'd see my catalog stuffed with mediocrity. But it's not. I have an incredibly slow release rate, and the stuff I do release is nothing but top notch "best of" type discs, with professionally-printed liners and often professionally-mastered shows. I enjoy making discs for that large portion of DT/Rush fans that enjoy a production. Which is how I am, and that's why I enjoyed Bahr's earliest series of silvers.
And I could make a LOT more money at a real job (even as a student), which is why I held a software engineering job last semester. This semester I held my breath and took 19 hours in order to graduate this May. It's killing me. So the real job had to go.
I love doing Scarred, but if you read the updates on my page, you'll see that it often takes a backseat to other priorities in life. It's not my ultimate desire to see how many people I can get to buy my boots for the highest prices possible.
If you trade stuff, that's great. I trade when I have time. If you buy boots, that's great. The people who are out to "get me", I feel for you. =)
In other more lighthearted news, I'm in three scenes of that Natalie Portman movie that's coming out today (Friday). =)
Until the subject pops back up again, Ryan Whitaker Scarred Records http://scarred.dyn.ns1.net
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:27:49 -0700 From: Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ethics of selling boots part I Message-ID: <B52E5345.AC%schansen@cts.com>
Note: this post apparently was too much for the server to take, so I'm gonna send it in 2 parts - heres the first:
DAMN! I didn't know my post was gonna generate so much of response (negative and *gasp* positive). Before I do address several of the posts that have been directed my way, I would like to just mention that the whole reason why I posted what I did was because (from how I saw it AT THE TIME) Adam was simply trying to maliciously screw a friend of mine and that's why I responded to his post. Anyway, I am guessing and certainly hope that was not Adam's intention. As it is, we do apparently disagree on the topic of selling bootlegs.
Anyhoo, on to the responses (as I don my flame retardant undies)....
Brian Henderson wrote: > I think you misconstrued my argument. I have no serious issue with people > selling bootlegs. <snip> > If bootlegs must be sold, it's better that they be > coming from people that actually know the song titles.
Yes you are right - I did miss the boat on that and I agree with what you are saying.
> I won't be buying a bootleg anytime soon, of course, but the fact that people > sell doesn't really bother me.
And that's your choice....fine.
> This doesn't change my stance on calling people who share my point of view > on boots "cheapskates" is wrong.
As I said in my previous post (actually I think it was in the same Jam as your post....) I am sorry if I offended you - that's not my intention. Friends? :)
> Should everyone who owns a DAT be compensated for what they're doing for the > bootleg-trading community? Should anyone who travels a long distance to tape > a show have their travel accommodations paid for?
I'm not saying it's mandatory that they should, but IMO, there's nothing wrong with asking for some compensation if a lot of time has been spent fixing something up. It's no different than finding an old antique piece of furniture on the side of the road (that the garabage man would be picking up shortly), restoring it and then selling it for a price. That person may very well enjoy doing the restoration as well as even enjoy finding specific items to restore. Does that give someone else the right to say "well, you gotta give it to me for free, cuz you didn't pay anything for it"? No. Same in this situation.
> Plenty of tapers distribute their wares for free. They may not have the glitz > of the CDs available from the bootleg "labels", but they can be just as good, > better in some cases (look at Prism).
And it's their choice if they want to do so. BTW, don't use Bahr as an example since everything he put out after he stopped having silvers pressed was sub-standard quality - I'm sure many including Madsman and others will agree. You have to admit Scarred has maintained high quality standards for everything - if Ryan went the way of Bahr, he'd lose my support, just as Bahr did.
> In any case, comparing "official" bootlegs to bootlegs is > comparing apples to oranges.
Not completely - the fact that Ryan is already doing this *may* speed up the oppurtunity for all of us to enjoy some official bootlegs. Portnoy has seen Ryan cultivate his apple orchard and knowing that he is trustworthy, is offering for him to run an orange grove as well. Otherwise, Portnoy will have to take the time to find someone else to assist in this project.
> Brian, "Cheapskate"
Easy man - no offense was meant, ok?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Madsman wrote: > This should be addressed. We have Ryan and Scott, who are NOT Mike Bahr. > But remember, Mike Bahr wasn't always Mike Bahr. I don't want Mike to have > the shit he's in now, and I don't want Ryan and Scott ever to get there (I > know Scott won't... he's sort of like the Boba Fett of the bootleg for sale > industry)
Thanx Chris (I think - is being the "Boba Fett of the bootleg for sale industry" a good thing?)
>> Perhaps you *might* be right about my being a bit heavy handed in >> referring to people as cheapskates, > > I think, Scott, that you need to reconsider the defensive position here > and just retract that statement.
I already addressed that issue a couple times now - no need to repeat it again....
> If someone wants to > put in a lot of work to make them sound better and look prettier, that's > cool. That does justify asking for some compensation, I believe, but does > not justify demanding it. The material, even in remastered form, does not > belong to the bootlegger, and he should simply turn the other cheek, as it > seems Ryan does, when someone works out a way to get a free copy. That free > copy is not lost revenue for the bootlegger.
I agree up to the point about the lost revenue in the last sentence. If someone, such as myself has paid to have shows mastered by a professional (as I have done on numerous Prism and Scarred boots) since I didn't know squat about "remastering" (and I still don't), and then sell it to Ryan at cost (no profit), to which he has a certain number of jackets and liners printed up, it costs money. Now let's say that only one individual buys a copy of it (not likely, but for conversation's sake) and then sets up a tree of this boot for free - Ryan's out the money for both the remastering costs as well as the printing costs (BTW, the jackets are professionally printed - they are not done on a home ink jet like Bahr's later boots were). So yes, there is lost revenue - costs he incurred while putting this release together (and this is not including time spent, wear and tear, etc.)
> You shouldn't call these people names. You are better than that.
See above...I blow my nose at you, you silly English KNIGGITS!! :) :) :) (see Monty Python and the Holy Grail if you don't get that)
> Heck, we should have Ytsejam contests for "Design the Liners to the new > Scarred Boot" and stuff like that. Ryan should find ways to cut $$ corners > without having to cut quality corners.
Actually he has done that in the past and I'm hoping that he will in the future - remember, he's been in school for the last umpteen years and up until recently has not had any serious employment (the boots helped to cover the bills instead of having to flip burgers at Micky D's). Now that he does, hopefully, he'll be able to lower the prices more. As for a covers contest, I'm guessing Ryan would be more than game for this (altho you'd have to check with him).
> Scott, you and I have both done long distances to see shows. We don't ask for > our money back. <snip> > You are paid with the experiences you get from those shows.
Agreed. And as you know, I myself have never sold a bootleg in my life (if you forget, remember the shows I sent you).
> It's not that hard to lie to yourself. I actually believed I was still in > shape until a few months ago. :)
Actually, you were looking like a big hunk back in February there!!! :P (J/K)
> I understand waiting until the thing is > OOP, and I respect the sentiment, but if you're a flat broke dude who puts > the effort forth to make trades online, you should be able to go through > whatever channels you want to get the boot you want.
Again, I agree - my whole point with those who dont want to pay and are out there just for the sake of getting their hands on the shows with no regard to appreciating the value of the show (I'm NOT talking about the costs involved in producing it) and what it took for the taper to tape the show (sneaking the recorder in, being uncomfortable for the whole show, etc.); then too there's searching for those old shows (think 70's Rush shows), finding a good, clean, low-gen copy you have to be a friggin detective. Appreciation more than anything else is the key.
> What do you think would make him [Portnoy] more proud, people releasing > excellent copies of the material for a profit, or for cost/free?
Obviously for free - BUT he is also one who enjoys the packaging, and if well done, he probably wouldn't mind paying a bit for it (tho admittedly he doesn't have to in most cases).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
to be continued.....
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Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:33:58 -0700 From: Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ethics of selling bootlegs part II Message-ID: <B52E54B6.AF%schansen@cts.com>
here's part II of the post:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Erik Gudmundson wrote: > This is a fundamental dictate of economics that says the socially optimal > marginal revenue charged by a firm (You and Ryan Inc.) for a good is equal to > its marginal cost.
I just want to make this perfectly clear - I do NOT have anything to do with Scarred Records aside from being a supplier of source material and artwork. I am not a part of the Scarred Records staff, no matter what you might think!! I support Scarred Records as a customer and friend of the staff - that's it. I don't NOT make ANY profit on the stuff I'm passing on to him for future releases - the ONLY money I've received from him is to cover the costs I paid someone else to take care of (remastering on source material - the scans of the photos on the jacket artwork).
> Posts like yours are a slap > in the face to genuine tapers and traders everywhere. To everyone else, > check out the website I mentioned and be friendly to your fellow DT fan.
I think you and several others on the list are thinking that I'm some sort of taping slut that goes to all "record shows" selling my wares to the ignorant passersby or that I sell stuff on Ebay. Ummmm no, that's not the case. I am a genuine taper - I have not sold any bootlegs at all - if you think I'm BSing you, check with Madsman who's known me for some time. And if you don't think I'm friendly, think again. I'm sure there are many other fans who I've met at shows and otherwise who would more than vouch for my being friendly and willing to help out a fellow DT fan, so don't make accusations without knowing the facts.
> Who'd'a thunk that after joining the Ytsejam a week ago, my first post > would be about this rubbish.
Actually, it's funny you say that, cuz I just rejoined the list after having been gone after 2 years.....it's great to be back (I think).... :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Gaz wrote: > Yet I haven't tried to recover any costs, so that just blows that > argument out of the window :)
Not really - it's just you've decided not to ask those you've given the shows to for any compensation. Ryan has.
> So if Scarred don't release a boot of a show no one will have it ? > Maybe not the sort of quality he might be able to bring, but > those shows will still be obtainable to traders.
True, but would you rather have a killer recording of it or a crappy recording that sounds like it had been recorded in the back of the hall with cheap equipment? Scarred produces quality products and charges for them.
> Nothing against Scarred, I've bought from Ryan in the past and will > no doubt buy from him once again :)
Well, I'm glad to see the whole world isn't completely against me! :)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
MadTabber writes: > Out of some weird courtesy, I won't tree recently released boots from > reputable sources... provided they quit giving most of us a hard time for > giving out free what they really shouldn't be selling in the first place.
I'm not trying to give any one a hard time. And as you'll recall, I did send you artwork for the HOB boot you got lined up. So I'm as you can see I'm not the money grubbing bastard that a lot of people on this list think I am.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Part III come.....
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5448 **************************
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