YTSEJAM Digest 5445
Today's Topics:
1) odds and ends...
by "Steve Graham" <steveg@gekay.com>
2) Holdsworth streaming video
by Adam Cook <ac003i@mail.rochester.edu>
3) Re: Portnoy on vox
by "Paul Evans" <evansp3@corp.earthlink.net>
4) Re: Re: Portnoy on vox
by "Paul Evans" <evansp3@corp.earthlink.net>
5) re: portnoy vox
by "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
6) O:M
by "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com>
7) RE: Portnoy on vox
by "Philip J. Kaplan" <pk@pkinteractive.com>
8) ytse piano
by "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
9) more security, boots, and other stuff
by Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
10) Re:Get your piano version of Ytsejam here!
by Totikus <totikus@gmx.net>
11) Re: Portnoy on vox
by "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
12) Re: Boot selling
by "Pye, Adam" <apye@kcc.com>
13) Re: Boot selling
by "Graham B" <graham@renegade2K.com>
14) Re: Concert question
by Daniel Wannemacher <dany@cs.uni-sb.de>
15) Re: MP3s invading the sacred trading circles
by Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com>
16) Spurs, Suns, Dream Theater
by Eric Joseph Desobe <edesobe@emory.edu>
17) yes, kansas will be touring this summer
by "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
18) Portnoys, Portnoy Vox
by "Steven Zebrowski" <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu>
19) Re: Portnoy on vox
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
20) TransAtlantic
by Compadre32@aol.com
21) Re: ethics of selling bootlegs
by Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com>
22) Re: 2nd pressing of 99 Xmas CD
by Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:17:06 -0400
From: "Steve Graham" <steveg@gekay.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: odds and ends...
Message-ID: <s906de65.064@gekay.com>
Hello everyone,
Time for my once-every-two-month post.
Some comments on Mike's singing. I think he has come a LONG way since I =
first saw him live doing backup. I believe the first time I saw it was on =
the Fix for 96 shows. I could be wrong. Especially on The Killing Hand =
when Labrie forgot to come on stage for the vocals. =20
Another thing. I'll be visiting my buddy in Richmond, VA for the 4th of =
July weekend. We are driving down that Saturday to Rockingham, NC for a =
Metallica show. He's a huge Metallica fan. I'm not that into them, but =
wouldn't mind seeing the show that they put on. I could care less about =
Korn, Powerman 5000, Kid Rock, or the other bands that are playing. =
Anyway, just wondering if there would be any jammers at that show. I'll =
be wearing my awake tour t-shirt. Should be a good time!
Regards,
Steve Graham
Is it normal that I have a strong desire to see the Poison/Dokken/Cinderell=
a/Slaughter show in Hartford this summer?
NP: Savatage/Dead Winter Dead
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:26:11 -0400
From: Adam Cook <ac003i@mail.rochester.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Holdsworth streaming video
Message-ID: <390718A3.8DFF5C10@mail.rochester.edu>
> I have nothing to offer in the way of a review. Allan is someone you
> just have to experience. If you're into fusion you're gonna dig it.
Words cannot put into meaning how awesome it is seeing that man play
live. He's so much better than everybody else it's just ridiculous. Of
course, it helps that his hands are so huge. He looks like he's playing
a little miniguitar half the time. Of course, a lot of jammers who don't
like jazz will think this sounds like 3 guys playing different things at
the same time. On the other hand, I think Holdsworth is as close as
anyone's ever got to playing with the raw energy and emotion of Coltrane
while improvising on the electric guitar. Too bad he can't do those cool
honks and squeeks Trane did when he started tripping.
Damn...now I want a Carvin Holdsworth model even more. Sounds like he's
using a Mesa/Boogie amp, but it's actually that new Yamaha digital
modeling amp. I'll have to check it out...from what I hear it shits all
over the Line 6 and Johnson modeling amps.
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:55:16 -0700
From: "Paul Evans" <evansp3@corp.earthlink.net>
To: "ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Portnoy on vox
Message-ID: <007201bfafa0$32bf9df0$305ad9cf@it.earthlink.net>
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I'm sorry, but Phil Kaplan must stop posting. Eww.
:-)
Paul Evans, Software Engineer
Business Web Hosting Development
Earthlink, Inc.
1-626-296-3064
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:59:28 -0700
From: "Paul Evans" <evansp3@corp.earthlink.net>
To: "ytsejam" <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Portnoy on vox
Message-ID: <007b01bfafa0$c8754520$305ad9cf@it.earthlink.net>
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For the humor impaired, my last post was a joke... Although it would be
nice if Phil would be more specific on what he doesn't like. I think he's
improved a great deal, especially the "Hey Abbott" line... ;-) Hell, he
sings better than I ever could, not that that's necessarily something to be
proud of! :-)
Paul Evans, Software Engineer
Business Web Hosting Development
Earthlink, Inc.
1-626-296-3064
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:09:29 PDT
From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: portnoy vox
Message-ID: <20000426170929.62100.qmail@hotmail.com>
I'm sorry, but Mike Portnoy must stop singing. Eww.>
>
philip j. kaplan : pk interactive nyc
> : www.pkinteractive.com
> : vox +1 212.273.9623> : fax +1
>212.273.9642
Well, i dissagree...maybe live, while he's playing the drums, it sort of
sounds bad, but in a controlled environment like the studio (on Fii/SFam
and specially Transatlantic) he is more than adequate, hell i really
like his studio vocals. I think that in the next studio album he should
keep singing backup, hell bring him on top of the mix! (like some
transatlantic parts)..
Two months ago, while we were waiting outside Toad's Place for the DT show
there, we could hear 'em doing their soundcheck. I don't know where James
was, because MP was singing the whole thing while playing the drums, and
doing a pretty darn good job at it. Until about the middle of FT, that is,
when he messed up and started yelling "eat my ass and balls! eat my ass and
balls!". At that point, a Toad's Place employee caught on that the stage
door was open, and that the crowd outside was getting a free show, so he
closed the door on us, and some guy yelled "eat my ass and balls!!"....quite
funny. Digression aside, MP showed that he really was a good singer....
-Fran
np: Max Creek - Dark Water.mp3
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 10:11:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Webmaster Ytsejam.com" <webmaster@ytsejam.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: O:M
Message-ID: <20000426171148.0A1FD50BD@sitemail.everyone.net>
>Actually, I think he's talking about the processed >vocal that ends the music
>right before Nikki says "I remember now..." What that >processed vocal says
>is "REVOLUTION!!!"
Yep, that's what I was thinking too.
-Koggie
==
Free Email Accounts at www.ytsejam.com
_____________________________________________________________
This email originated from Ytsejam.com. Free email accounts for fans of Dream Theater. 6MB of Storage and no limit on file attachments.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:23:38 -0400
From: "Philip J. Kaplan" <pk@pkinteractive.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: RE: Portnoy on vox
Message-ID: <NDBBJDCNILGDEGLNGLEFGEGHCOAA.pk@pkinteractive.com>
]From: "Carlos A. Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net>
> "Philip J. Kaplan" wrote:
>
> > I'm sorry, but Mike Portnoy must stop singing. Eww.
> >
> > philip j. kaplan : pk interactive nyc
> > : www.pkinteractive.com
> > : vox +1 212.273.9623
> > : fax +1 212.273.9642
>
> Well, i dissagree...maybe live, while he's playing the drums, it sort of
> sounds bad, but in a controlled environment like the studio (on Fii/SFam
> and specially Transatlantic) he is more than adequate, hell i really
> like his studio vocals. I think that in the next studio album he should
> keep singing backup, hell bring him on top of the mix! (like some
> transatlantic parts)..
Okay, I'll accept that -- in the *studio* he's good. But whenever I listen
to non-official live tracks (especially the Orlando SFAM - which I was
listening to when I wrote that), his vocals make me cringe.
- Phil
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:32:33 +0200
From: "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: ytse piano
Message-ID: <200004261732.TAA07670@altair.ceu.hu>
Yup, Bungle did it. He lives right here in Hungary, close to
Budapest. If you can't reach him via that e-mail, contact me and I
will give him a phone call to ask him for his current mail address.
I will let you know.
T-Bone
>
> you might want to contact Mr. Bungle ..he's the one who came up with it
> and played it... right ? this is probably an outdated address but last
> time i checked, his e-mail is mrbungle@speed.eik.bme.hu good luck :)
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:59:19 -0400
From: Digital Man <cmerlo@optical.mindstorm.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: more security, boots, and other stuff
Message-ID: <20000426135919.A1157@optical.mindstorm.com>
On 2000-04-26 at 08:25 -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com
<ytsejam@torchsong.com> truly believed:
> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 18:45:06 -0500
> From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@digitalrodent.com>
> Subject: E-Mail Security
>
> If you really need security, you really need to host your own e-mail server.
Every point that Mads made here was a good one. I, however, would go
one step farther. Mads says "If you really need security". I say we
all do. Whether you feel your e-mail is of a private nature or not,
you should be able to know who has access to it and why. The
government can't listen to your phone line without a warrant, but any
temp-agency drug user at Yahoo! can read your mail. Does that sound
right to you?
Get Linux, or a BSD, or Be (thanks for the reminder, Mads), and host
your own mail. Even if you don't have a permanent connection, you can
still expect reasonable security this way.
If all this is beyond your scope, at least look into PGP or GPG.
Strong encryption is Good.
---> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 20:44:42 -0500 > From: "Todd O. Klindt, MCSE" <todd@klindt.org> > Subject: Get your piano version of Ytsejam here! > > Digital Man was nice enough to host it on something faster than my modem.
BTW, if anyone else needs stuff hosted, let me know. Linux + cable modem + 13 gigs of hard drive == more bandwidth and space than I really need.
---
> Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:06:26 -0400 > From: WB Henderson <wbhender@cs.millersville.edu> > Subject: On Scarred > > As someone who's participated in the taping and mastering of shows to CD > for non-profit trading I gotta say this: feel free to sell this disc, but > to call people that don't want to shell out dough for something you guys > illegally obtained in the first place "cheapskates" is way out of line.
I was wondering how long it would take for people to figure this one out.
> As a former bootleg buyer who saw "the light": I'm with Pye -- free the > bootlegs.
Preach on, brother Brian. (Damn, I should get back into trading.)
---
> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 07:31:27 -0500 > From: Josh.Brand@stpaul.com > Subject: Star People stuff... > > "Lorenza is also a much-in-demand session musician and has appeared > on albums by artists as diverse as Tricky, Jon Anderson of Yes, > Stevie Nicks, Silverchair, Kitaro, John Tesh, Sheryl Crow, and Ben > Folds Five." > > Huzzah! She played with a member of Yes! I say that confers instant > legitimacy.
There's a problem with your logic, because that would make Trevor Rabin legitimate, too. :)
-d "Owner of a Lonely Fart" man
------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Digital Man \|/ ____ \|/ "640 K ought to be enough d-man@dreamt.org "@'/ ,. \`@" memory for everyone." -Gates cmerlo@mindstorm.com /_| \__/ |_\ "He won't need a bed http://www.dreamt.org/d-man \__U_/ He's a digital man" -Peart ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:09:55 +0200 From: Totikus <totikus@gmx.net> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re:Get your piano version of Ytsejam here! Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000426200955.007a85e0@pop.gmx.net>
The keyboardist playing the piano version of Ytsejam is Bungle of the now-defunct Hungarian prog (mainly DT cover) band Serenity. I believe he's not in a band right now... I think I heard something about him almost becoming Jordan's keyboard tech but stopped by visa problems, but I may be confusing him with someone. The former singer of Serenity has joined another Hungarian prog band called Stonehenge who have an English language web page at www.extra.hu/stonehenge. Hope this helps, Totikus
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:16:37 -0300 From: "Carlos Alfaro" <calfaro@yunque.net> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Portnoy on vox Message-ID: <000b01bfafa3$2e9af320$37351ec8@yunque.net>
> > Okay, I'll accept that -- in the *studio* he's good. But whenever I listen > to non-official live tracks (especially the Orlando SFAM - which I was > listening to when I wrote that), his vocals make me cringe. > > - Phil > > Well i have to agree with you on this one, because on the orlando HOB show his vocals sucked, i noticed that too last night while listening to it, but at the same times, james also had his low points...and so did jordan (im seeing now that he is nowhere near flawless as lots of you have said) ...but other shows ive heard, MP has been adequeate to good..
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 13:47:09 -0500 From: "Pye, Adam" <apye@kcc.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Boot selling Message-ID: <CF2C9F6501B6D211862500805F15297F03EB3BB2@ustcax09.kcc.com>
Scott Hansen said: > Dunno how much your joking on that one Adam, but just to set the record > staright in case your not.... :) Not only is Ryan gonna bust his ass in > getting copies made for everyone, but I busted my ass in a big way gettin= > g the friggin jacket and liners done. It will be worth the money! I'm sure > there's some cheapskate out there that still is gonna try to just trade i > it for something else, and I have no control over it. However, I will tell
> you that between myself, Ryan and the guy who has mastered the shows, there > will be a lot of man hours put into this thing by the time it's actually > available.
First let me say that I have absolutely no problem with Ryan or Scott. Just my feelings on this particular topic:
I'm sorry to say (I guess) that I have absolutely no sympathy for your "many hours spent". Remastering and preparing shows is very common even in Dream Theater trading circles. I get extremely rare tapes of my other favorite band (Widespread Panic) from people who have been close to the band since the beginning. These tapes aren't available in the trading community for one reason or another. I get these tapes, which are often very bad quality, then I clean them up. Trust me - taking three 12 year old analog tapes with a ton of hiss and crackle, piecing them together (sometimes from multiple sources), cleaning them up (removing hiss, compressing, speed adjustments, etc, etc), and then putting them to CD takes a LONG time. I'm sure at least the equivalent of your "hours spent." Then, I post to the WSP mailing list for B&Ps (blanks and postage) to get these rare sessions out to the public. I don't even do 2 for 1 trades - just send me a couple of blank CDs and a self-addressed envelope and you get your show back a week later. And many people on the list do this far more often than I do. If I tried to sell these recordings I'd be laughed off the list - as I very well should be..
I actually find "cheapskate" pretty offensive. Why don't you give a percentage of your profits to Dream Theater - then you'll sound less hypocritical when calling traders "cheapskates". Establishments like Scarred Records are the biggest reason that taping isn't allowed at most bands' shows.
I've gotten a good amount of emails encouraging me to do this, and someone has volunteered to run the tree. At the very least this (and probably all of the Xmas shows, in their entirety) will be available in good quality MP3 in the near future. If I get enough emails to warrant a tree, maybe we'll do that too...
Adam
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 06:29:42 +1000 From: "Graham B" <graham@renegade2K.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Boot selling Message-ID: <200004262034.e3QKXxV09123@sampa.simpleweb.com.br>
> First let me say that I have absolutely no problem with Ryan or Scott. > Just my feelings on this particular topic: > > I'm sorry to say (I guess) that I have absolutely no sympathy for your > "many hours spent". Remastering and preparing shows is very common > even in Dream Theater trading circles. I get extremely rare tapes of > my other favorite band (Widespread Panic) from people who have been > close to the band since the beginning. These tapes aren't available > in the trading community for one reason or another. I get these > tapes, which are often very bad quality, then I clean them up. Trust > me - taking three 12 year old analog tapes with a ton of hiss and > crackle, piecing them together (sometimes from multiple sources), > cleaning them up (removing hiss, compressing, speed adjustments, etc, > etc), and then putting them to CD takes a LONG time. I'm sure at > least the equivalent of your "hours spent." Then, I post to the WSP > mailing list for B&Ps (blanks and postage) to get these rare sessions > out to the public. I don't even do 2 for 1 trades - just send me a > couple of blank CDs and a self-addressed envelope and you get your > show back a week later. And many people on the list do this far more > often than I do. If I tried to sell these recordings I'd be laughed > off the list - as I very well should be..
Same for me, I've spent lots of hours mastering live shows, for a couple of friends to enjoy shows we have seen.
> I actually find "cheapskate" pretty offensive. Why don't you give a > percentage of your profits to Dream Theater - then you'll sound less > hypocritical when calling traders "cheapskates". Establishments like > Scarred Records are the biggest reason that taping isn't allowed at > most bands' shows. > > I've gotten a good amount of emails encouraging me to do this, and > someone has volunteered to run the tree. At the very least this (and > probably all of the Xmas shows, in their entirety) will be available > in good quality MP3 in the near future. If I get enough emails to > warrant a tree, maybe we'll do that too...
I'm 100% behind Adam, his views, he is one guy I admire for putting speading the music over making money and profit.
gaz
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:47:02 +0200 From: Daniel Wannemacher <dany@cs.uni-sb.de> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Concert question Message-ID: <20000426214702.A509@jimi.cs.uni-sb.de>
On Wed, Apr 26, 2000 at 08:22:42AM -0700, ytsejam@torchsong.com wrote: > Does anybody have any idea where I could possibly find a cd or mp3 > with the opening keyboard piece that was playing before the ticking started > at the beginning of the show???? It's the Laura Palmer's Theme from the Twin Peaks - TV series. It's on the soundtrack to it, usually found in a record store.
-dany NP: soccer on tv -- Daniel Wannemacher 'And if I don't see you no more in this world, dany@cs.uni-sb.de I'll meet you in the next one, http://on.to/dany But don't be late............' -J.H.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:32:25 -0400 From: Adam Pye <alpine1@mindspring.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: MP3s invading the sacred trading circles Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000426162842.00a22d70@pop.mindspring.com>
At 08:23 AM 4/26/00 -0700, you wrote: >Nothing against Lines in Sand website, it has great resources for the >fans . but that site seems to be the main cause of the problem !! > >It sucks now when you trade you don't know what your getting.
I agree with this, even though I help supply LITS with shows. Traders are just going to have to ask, unfortunately, if the source is MP3 (though good traders will have this info in their list). Even though LITS supplies many of the MP3s that are part of the problem, I feel it's necessary to get these great shows out to people that might otherwise not get to hear them, despite the fact that it might cause problems for traders (myself included). Just got to be careful if you want the real thing...
Adam
_________________________________________________ Adam Pye alpine1(-at-)mindspring.com http://www.mindspring.com/~alpine1 ^^ Above URL for tape/cd list w/ setlists __________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:37:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Eric Joseph Desobe <edesobe@emory.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Spurs, Suns, Dream Theater Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.05.10004261636470.11226-100000@jet.cc.emory.edu>
Anyone else notice the music playing over the PA at the start of the second half of the Suns/Spurs game ... Metropolis pt. 1.
-Eric
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:22:23 PDT From: "Fran Brennan" <okelnard@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: yes, kansas will be touring this summer Message-ID: <20000426212223.5294.qmail@hotmail.com>
I found this on jambands.com, of all places. Sorry if it's old news, but I hadn't seen anything on the 'jam about it yet....
Yes has announced plans for a US tour this summer. The lineup features Jon Anderson, Steve Howe, Chris Squire, Alan White, Billy Sherwood and Igor Khoroshev. “This has been a long time coming,'' says lead singer Jon Anderson. ''Our audience has been asking for this for years. We want this show to honor their passion and loyalty. The tour begins June 20 at the Reno Amphitheatre in Reno, NV and concludes August 1 at Mars Music Amphitheatre in West Palm Beach, FL. For the complete tour itinerary, visit http://www.yesworld.com .
Kansas will be the supporting act for the tour. That lineup will include Steve Walsh, Robby Steinhardt, Rich Williams, Phil Ehart and Billy Greer.
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 19:50:54 -0400 From: "Steven Zebrowski" <szebro1@gl.umbc.edu> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Portnoys, Portnoy Vox Message-ID: <001d01bfafda$442e9ca0$0200010a@steve>
> The name was mentioned and I remember my girlfriend almost shooting me in the > movie when i freaked out for like ten minutes just cause I heard > Portnoy.....hahahahaha Does anyone else have a similar situation??
No, I think most of us can keep our composure when someone says a name that happens to be someone in OFB. I mean, did you go equally as nute when you see who composed/sang the theme from "Cheers"? when you see the episode of Saturday Night Live when Patrick Stewart mistakenly says that Spock was played by Leonard Portnoy? Do Rush fans all go nuts when they encounter someone with the last name 'Lee'? :)
Just kidding. I actually think it's really cool when we talk about Petrucci in music history class. :)
> Btw, Who was playing the Piano on Ytse Jam in this Piano Version ?? > That was a hell of piano. Sounds great.
I'm guessing nobody. It sounds like a sequencer. The trills are so mechanical. Sounds like shit.
> I'm sorry, but Mike Portnoy must stop singing. Eww.
Finally someone says it!!!!! Thank you!!!
> Well, i dissagree...maybe live, while he's playing the drums, it sort of > sounds bad, but in a controlled environment like the studio (on Fii/SFam > and specially Transatlantic) he is more than adequate, hell i really > like his studio vocals.
Actually I agree with this - Live, he's abyssmal. However, in the studio, the parts of Strange Deja Vu where he and James sing the "...I just can't help myself..." are awesome.
>Mike's not a bad backup singer. In fact, on most of the "official" live recordings, he's more on >pitch than James, making James sound bad.
On the official live releases, Mike overdubbed his vocals - no excuse for them to be out of tune there. In concert/on bootlegs, if there's any in-tune backup singing, most of it's coming from Petrucci's side of the stage.
Petrucci has a nice voice, but just needs to cut loose a bit more. Portnoy has a nice voice, too, but need to get it under control a bit more. I realize it's tough to do when you're playing an instrument, drums being the hardest of all to play while singing. I would think they'd want their b-vox to ADD to the music rather than detract from it. The latter seems to be the case.
Steve Z
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:00:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Portnoy on vox Message-ID: <20000427000059.25931.qmail@web111.yahoomail.com>
On Wed, 26 April 2000, "Philip J. Kaplan" wrote:
> I'm sorry, but Mike Portnoy must stop singing. Eww.
I may have agreed with you in the past (Burning My Soul), but I really like his backing vox on SFaM.
my $.02, BH
NP: Planet P Project
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:14:55 EDT From: Compadre32@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: TransAtlantic Message-ID: <9a.3fdcd3a.2638e07f@aol.com>
Is the TransAtlantic CD available at any major retail stores like Circuit City (thats where I got my LTE's)? just wonderin
-compadre- President of DTaholics Anonymous "We Care"
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 18:45:24 -0700 From: Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: ethics of selling bootlegs Message-ID: <B52CE9C4.89%schansen@cts.com>
> As someone who's participated in the taping and mastering of shows to CD > for non-profit trading I gotta say this: feel free to sell this disc, but > to call people that don't want to shell out dough for something you guys > illegally obtained in the first place "cheapskates" is way out of line. > > As a former bootleg buyer who saw "the light": I'm with Pye -- free the > bootlegs.
Well, I had no intentions of writing a paper (LOL) but here goes:
Brian,
Perhaps you *might* be right about my being a bit heavy handed in referring to people as cheapskates, but lemme say this: whenever a fan (with a great reputation) who is running a boot label is releasing a great quality show (bootleg), I will make the effort to purchase it from them (unless it's outta print) for the same reason that I would hope others would do the same: it costs money to do what they do.
Imagine the amount of money Ryan blew on flying from Texas up to new England for those shows. Add the costs of hotel accomodations, ticket costs and other costs. And let's not forget about how much he blew to pay for the equipment he used to tape the shows - of course he is using it for other shows as well, but it does cost money - especially for the mics ($1000 alone). Now you can say he did it "just because he was a fan" and you would be right. But he did something more - he recorded them. And because he made these recordings, he has every right to charge something for them to cover his costs. He didn't have to share these shows with anyone, but he is. Granted, the final price of the bootleg will more than cover that, but then you have the cost of wear and tear on his computer equipment, the cost of materials, utility costs, time it takes to burn CD after CD after CD, etc. IT COSTS MONEY. He is probably making a profit, yes, but a small one - certainly not as much as he could be making if he spent this time at work doing programming - he's doing it for the fan's sake and because he enjoys doing it. He's not doing it to make a quick buck off a fan of the band, like the "commercial" boot labels are, nor is he putting out crappy quality stuff, like most "commercial" boot labels do.
As to the legality of the recordings - it is debateable as to whether they are illegal or not and I choose not to expand on that, as that is a whole other topic. However, if they are in fact illegal as you are implying, then *anyone* who has bootlegs (whether recorded by themselves or someone else) has obtained something illegal - so that part of your argument is irrelevant.
And for someone who cannot afford the show, I can feel for them - I've been there before - REALLY! But just because someone can't afford something doesn't mean they should just make copies for themselves. For instance, does it make it right for someone to copy, say Mike's "Liquid Drum Theater" video just because they can't afford it? No. So why a bootleg? Yes the video is official and the boot isn't, but I'm talking about the principal. I guess my resolve for this is: if you can't afford it, at least wait until the sucker is out of print (it shouldn't take that long considering how short the runs are) before trading the hell out of it. And if you can afford it, then buy it. You'll only be shooting yourselves in the foot if you don't. Why?
Case in point: Chris King ran the Moose/Caribou label. He tried to put out a quality product and charged just enough to cover his costs and to upgrade his equipment - he did it because he enjoyed it, not to make money. Then when someone said the same thing as you: "why should I bother buying it when my trading buddies will give it to me for free?" Guess what? He said "fuck you all - if you can't appreciate what I've done, then why should I waste my time?" and that was the end of Moose/Caribou.
Personally, I would like to see Scarred last longer than Moose/Caribou did. I'm not saying this because I'm getting a cut of the profits, because, guess what? I'm not getting any money from Scarred what-so-ever, except to cover the costs (and nothing more - that means I'm NOT making a profit) of the scans that I had someone ELSE professionally scan and in the case of Imaginations on Fire, the money I paid to have someone ELSE professionally master the show. I'd like to see Scarred Records continue because of the great quality bootlegs that have been released. Scarred Records is a labor of love for the fans, whether you agree or not with the principal of buying boots - it's that simple.
Now, I don't want this to become some sort of flame war nor am I trying to piss anyone off - that was not my intention with this post. The point I am making is simply to *think* before you wave the "free the bootlegs" banner.
One last thing - if he is doing something ssssoooooooooooo wrong, why would *Portnoy* approach *Ryan* about possibly doing some OFFICIAL bootlegs in the future? So do you still feel like "freeing all the bootlegs?" You might end up with nothing at all.
With that, I get off my soap box.
Peace (and I do mean that), Setlist Scotty
PS For the record, I do not sell any bootlegs myself - all the stuff I have I trade.
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Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:34:30 -0700 From: Scott Hansen <schansen@cts.com> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: 2nd pressing of 99 Xmas CD Message-ID: <B52D0356.92%schansen@cts.com>
> Steffan wrote: > Well, April sounds a bit optimistic. I just finished the new master > some days ago, and the pressing plant needs some time, too, so don't > hold your breath. But it WILL come, don't worry!
Hey Steffan!
What are the differences gonna be between the 1st and 2nd pressings of the Xmas CD? Are there gonna be extra tracks or are tracks gonna be removed, changed, what? I'm sure I'm not the only one wanting to know, so please fill us in!
Setlist Scotty
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5445 **************************
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