YTSEJAM Digest 5306
Today's Topics:
1) Re: Any info on Pittsburgh show, 2-19???
by Savaytse66 <savaytse66@psu.edu>
2) Don't eat yellow snow
by MusicSnob@aol.com
3) Milwaukee Show
by "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@digitalrodent.com>
4) Thank you guys
by Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
5)
by "Seth Johnson" <thresholdsj@hotmail.com>
6) Re: YTSEJAM digest 5305
by Oddvar Lovaas <flail@online.no>
7) X-Mas Cds
by Fett2002@aol.com
8) Boston ticket
by "Brendan Schulman" <bmschulman@hotmail.com>
9) taking the "music as entertainment" thread too far :)
by "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
10) Re: gig tricks
by "Kevin A. Loechner" <loechner@eecs.tulane.edu>
11) re: Musicians are entertainers?
by Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
12) Re: gig tricks
by "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
13) RE: gig tricks
by "Metzger, Mark" <mmetzger@comversens.com>
14) Re: Xmas CD
by INNSOUL@aol.com
15) re:musicians are entertainers?
by "Doug Melvin" <djemelvin@hotmail.com>
16) Secret track
by alex <alex@dbwired.com>
17) Re: Secret track
by "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
18) doh
by "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org>
19) STUFF for a digest
by Mark Moore <rushzil2112@yahoo.com>
20) Re: PLEASE someone answer me?? about the NYC show
by drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh)
21)
by Graham Boyle <ytsejam@ozemail.com.au>
22) 2/11 Minneapolis show review
by Thomas <tommer@execpc.com>
23) art vs entertainment
by mikel <mikel@alphalink.com.au>
24) Psycho Hippie Sludge (less DTC than a Green Day concert)
by eckie@asu.edu
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:54:03 -0500
From: Savaytse66 <savaytse66@psu.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: Any info on Pittsburgh show, 2-19???
Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000212115013.00c06d80@email.psu.edu>
Here's ticket info on the Pittsburgh show:
The number to call is (412) 276-8300. You need a credit card. Pick up the
tickets the night of the show at the door. It's a 21+ show. Doors open at
6:00 and the show starts at 7:00. I think they were around $23 after the
extra fee gets added on.
Chris
At 08:34 AM 2/12/00, you wrote:
>Does anybody have any info on the show in Pittsburgh??? It is supposed to
>be on February 19th at the Metropol. Ticketmaster does not have a listing
>for the show. Is the show still on? Has it been rescheduled or cancelled?
>.I need tickets! Any info will help!
>
>Thanks,
>Scott
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:59:24 EST
From: MusicSnob@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Don't eat yellow snow
Message-ID: <e3.12de6ec.25d6eb6c@aol.com>
Someone asked - nay - begged:
>>Does anybody have any info on the show in Pittsburgh???
My guess is that it's white when it falls, but its color quickly turns into a
reasonable
imitation of a bowl of oatmeal of dubious origin, or perhaps a bit darker
given the
proliferation of the steel industry in Western PA.
Oh, you asked about the SHOW. About that, I have no clue.
NP: Digital Ruin - DitO (The production still sucks)
Kevin
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:06:32 -0600
From: "Christopher W. Ptacek" <someone@digitalrodent.com>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Milwaukee Show
Message-ID: <002f01bf757b$84266840$9b25fea9@madstation>
Hey all you people going to the Milwaukee show... look for me and my peeps!
We'll be a group varying significantly in height, and I'll be wearing "The
Hat of Distinction" which is blue and looks like a dead octopus.
See you at the show!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:21:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Andrew Coutermarsh <a_couter@oz.plymouth.edu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Thank you guys
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.10.10002121212001.45988-100000@oz.plymouth.edu>
I just want to say a quick thank you to all you guys on the jam (girls
too, heh). Because of my being on the jam, I've recently heard the
following albums:
Angra - Fireworks
Fates Warning - No Exit, Parallels, Perfect Symmetry
Platypus - When Pus Comes to Shove
Jordan Rudess - Secrets of the Muse
Rudess/Morgenstein Project
Derek Sherinian - Planet X
Rick Wakeman - Myths and Legends of King Arthur, Return to the Center of
the Earth (Patrick Stewart narrating on the second one; it's so cool!)
To anybody who is looking for new music or stuff that they might not have
listened to before, I suggest the albums mentioned above, or other albums
by these groups. And I have all you people to thank in finding these
albums.
If it weren't for the jam, I'd be much more musically ignorant than I am
now.
-------------------------------------------------
Andrew Coutermarsh
a_couter@mail.plymouth.edu
http://cout.dhs.org/
Cloak on IRC
ICQ: 2513441
-------------------------------------------------
Researchers have discovered that chocolate
produces some of the same reactions in the brain
as marijuana. The researchers also discovered
other similarities between the two, but can't
remember what they are.
-------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 09:35:53 PST
From: "Seth Johnson" <thresholdsj@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Message-ID: <20000212173553.8816.qmail@hotmail.com>
Hey Scott,
About the show it Pittsburgh, its still on, but its an 21 and over show. So
I have to go to the Cleveland show to see them.
However, Dream Theater is doing a signing at The Record Exchange (1709 E.
Carson St.) at 1:00 pm on Saturday Feb 19th.
Seth
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 18:36:14 +0100
From: Oddvar Lovaas <flail@online.no>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Re: YTSEJAM digest 5305
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000212183614.00727a10@online.no>
>A little NDTC here. I'm trying to remember the name of the guy and/or the
>website that was mentioned here a few months ago. I think the dude was from
>Turkey(?), and he claims on his website to be the world's greatest lover,
or >something like that.
>If anyone can help, I'd appreciate it. Private e-mail is fine, or through
>the Jam is fine as well.
http://members.xoom.com/_XOOM/primall/mahir/index.html
you'll find history, the original page ++ :)
< flail - Oddvar Lovaas - http://home.sol.no/~flail - ICQ: 3253879 >
"Working with John is like taking a shower. It's something you do."
- John Petrucci about Myung
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:41:01 EST
From: Fett2002@aol.com
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: X-Mas Cds
Message-ID: <c5.1be4e99.25d6f52d@aol.com>
Well, it's February 12th, and I still haven't got my Christmas CD! Maybe they
should rename it the Valentine's Day CD at this point! Well, anyway I got a
question about the 98 X-Mas CD. In "Hey You" who sings the part that comes
immediately after the solo? I'm almost positive it isn't JL. It kinda sounds
like Kevin Moore but thats quite impossible since he wasn't in the band
anymore! So I'm guessing it was MP?? The only other option I would figure is
JP. Anyone know for sure on this?
-Mike C.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:58:18 EST
From: "Brendan Schulman" <bmschulman@hotmail.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: Boston ticket
Message-ID: <20000212175818.11016.qmail@hotmail.com>
Would anyone like to buy one Boston ticket (Feb. 27) at a discount? I'm
going to be out of town that weekend, but I hate for it to go to waste.
Send e-mail direct:
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:33:52 +0100
From: "Tibor Varady 2.0" <lawinen@freemail.hu>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: taking the "music as entertainment" thread too far :)
Message-ID: <200002121831.TAA16567@altair.ceu.hu>
Check this out:
Pete says: I love hard core because it has the raw power which
no other music has. It also takes a stand on issues that we should
all be concerned about.
Nina says: I love Enja and Dead Can Dance. It gives me the
serenity I need. It gives me something which can truly relax me
after a day in the city.
Edmund says: All my life is serious. I listen to music for fun -
what is better then to whistle along the music in my car while I
drive to work - may it be Toto, or Samantha Fox - music shines like
the sun for me.
Jeff says: progressive music unites everything I need. It takes
me to far away places, it gives me the enjoyment of equisite
musicianship, it always brings something new, something exciting.
Liv says: music is dancing. I don't really care what it is, but as
long as it gives me a beat to which I can dance away all saturday
nite, I feel good from it.
Jack says: music? Beethoven is music, Mozart, Wagner is
music, Prokofiev is music - the peak of it all. No other music rivals
with classical.
Nick says: nothing gives me the adrenaline I need but metal.
No other music gives me such an outlet for agreession, yet it has
meaning and musicality.
Kate says: world music - why would I listen to "domestic"
music? I love music which brings the moods of different cultures
right ion my room.
I say: I could go on and on. Sorry for being long, but my point
is: aren't ALL these opinions valid? I think they are. Music -
entertainment, art, relaxation, trance, a story, whatever.
I think we can respect all.
This could be obviously argued by talking about the music
industry, or MTV and similar things, but first of all, I would say:
respect, tolerate, enjoy.
Sorry if this was too many kilobites,
Tibor
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:52:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Kevin A. Loechner" <loechner@eecs.tulane.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: gig tricks
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000212124755.7201A-100000@pegasus>
Hey,
Usually I'll just wait around the artist entrance for a while. I don't
know if this works everywhere, but at the House of Blues in New Orleans
the artist entrance is right next to the main entrance.
Steve Vai and his entire band are really cool with fans, at least they
were here in New Orleans. I even got Mike Mangini to personalize a used
drum stick for me. So at the Vai show you should be able to stick around
and chat, get photos, autographs, etc.
Vai even signed guitars for people while he was here, so he is definitely
cool. Mike Mangini has quite the similar personality to Mike Portnoy, so
he is also very fan friendly. Phillip Bynoe, the bassist, probably talks
to fans longer than anybody though, and Mike Keneally talks the least but
he is still quite friendly.
Hope this helps you, CyberDuke.
Later,
Kevin
---------------------------------------------
-- Kevin A. Loechner --
-- Department of Electrical Engineering --
-- and Computer Science, Tulane University --
-- loechner@eecs.tulane.edu --
-- http://studentweb.tulane.edu/~kloechn --
---------------------------------------------
http://www.imagineradio.com/mymusiclisten.asp?name=kevin2112
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 11:23:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Brian Hansen <bhansen10@yahoo.com>
To: ytsejam@torchsong.com
Subject: re: Musicians are entertainers?
Message-ID: <20000212192315.7869.qmail@web116.yahoomail.com>
"Matt Molite" <ytsejam11@dreamtheater.zzn.com> wrote:
> Ok, I for one have a serious problem when musicians,
at least serious
> ones, are reffered to as "entertainers". To me, a
musician is an
> artist, we just happen to like their artwork and are
willing to pay
> money for it. Was Picasso an "entertainer"? How
about Charles
> Dickens? Ive always seen them, as well as
musicians, as artists
> who's work we find entertaining. Sure there are
people who play
> music for sole entertainment purposes and dont care
about being
> expressive with their emotions, and kudos to them,
they enjoy it,
> thats good.
Oh boy, we're in for some serious hairsplitting on
this topic. Time for someone to get out the old
Websters dictionary to start defining the terms...
I've had this "musician/composer/performer" discussion
before, and what it came down to is that musicians can
be broken into two groups: Composers and Performers.
Really great musicians can do both, though most
specialize in one or the other. Most composers can and
do "perform", but it may not be what they're best at,
and they may not like doing it. On the other hand,
performers love to perform (entertain?). They usually
master their instrument and their presentation. They
may also compose, but it may not be their strongest
trait. Composers tend to see the instrument as a means
to realize their composition.
Like I said before, great musicians can do both, so
the separation between "composer" and "perfomer" is
just a generalization.
The funny thing is, the difference between composer
and performer was taken for granted before rock music.
Most performers were performing someone else's
composition. In the 60's and 70's, it became expected
for a musician to write AND perform. It's still taken
for granted that a lot of "pop" (Brittney Spears
type)music is written by one person, and "performed"
by someone else. But in rock, and especially
prog/rock/metal, we want the musician to do both.
As for the original posters contention that
"musicians" are "artists", I would agree. And they
both have the sub-categories of "performer" and
"composer".
"Entertainment" is a term that is too broad for use in
this conversation. You could find ANYTHING
entertaining (with the possible exception of this
long-winded post). ;o)
my $.02, BH
__________________________________________________
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Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:45:29 -0700
From: "Korg Ecksthrey" <korgx3@safelink.net>
To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com>
Subject: Re: gig tricks
Message-ID: <003601bf7591$bf8b0510$7b0d84d0@default>
> How do I succeed 100% in meeting the guys after the gig? It might be
100%? Be patient. That's what it takes. Firstly, it depends on the place
they are playing. In some cases, it might not be possible to meet the band
after the show. At smaller venues your chances are much better. Larger
venues (like the Delta Center, I believe), they'll actually pull the busses
into the stadium to pick the band up. The band comes and goes in a
completely secured area and you're totally screwed to get autographs. This
is what my friends and I did at the SLC show.
We arrived at the venue an hour and a half early. It guaranteed us a decent
parking spot, beat traffic, and play Inspector Gadget around the place. The
first thing we did was take a trek around Kingsbury Hall. Around back they
had a semi where they were loading their stuff in. Continue around the side
and 'viola!' There's the stage door. Three busses parked right outside it.
A couple of guys standing out there had already gotten autographs from a
couple of the guys at the point as they were there when the busses pulled in
(which you can never properly estimate when they will). The stage door will
generally be a roped off area, or in our case, have a string of yellow
'Police Line - Do Not Cross' tape. So, we knew that at that point we
weren't going to see the band before the show, but we did get to see The
Star People enter, to which no one swooned (although there were a few
curses. heheheh).
After the show... There isn't much need to rush back to the stage door
after the show is over. After the show is over, the band wants nothing more
than to kick back and recoup, meet with the backstage pass people, and wash
the goopy makeup off of their faces (where applicable). Hell, for our sake,
the locals would have had time to go home, get into their Hsing-Hsing the
Panda costumes and come back with time to spare. It was approximately one
hour before James came out. The rest of the band eventually popped out of
the door about one every 15 minutes, ending with John P., who came out last
at about 2 hours after the show was over. All of them stopped to go down
the line signing, photoing, etc., which sounds like we were lucky as one or
two members sometimes head straight for the bus.
Anyway, that's how we do it here... I'm sure it wouldn't be any different
in Macedonia or wherever, Dukester. :) Just be patient and you won't fail.
-- KorgX3 didn't get home until 5am that night. Er. Morning. hehehe.------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:47:28 -0500 From: "Metzger, Mark" <mmetzger@comversens.com> To: "'ytsejam@torchsong.com'" <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: RE: gig tricks Message-ID: <35A7D40B978CD311AF05002048404D347FFF9B@wm2.btrd.bostontechnology.com>
>> From: CyberDuke <duskob@mol.com.mk> >> OK, I really need a big favour.
Hmmmmmmm. I see from your e-mail address that you are from Milwaukee !! Since we all know what a dive that place is, I am sure that you will get a lot of sympathy responses that can help you out ......
>> How do I succeed 100% in meeting the guys after the gig? It might be >> easy in USA, I guess the band/fans relationship is more close, but >> consider a European tour. How can I find them? When?
Me thinks that if you are really going out of your way to see DT that a quick e-mail to MP could secure you an aftershow pass. MP always seems to have a tender place in his heart for those who travel far and wide to see them. Just dont make fun of his Yankees hat.
>> The poor Milwaukeean.
We suffer with you my son.
Cheers, Mark Metzger mmetzger@comversens.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:59:07 EST From: INNSOUL@aol.com To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: Xmas CD Message-ID: <2d.1322642.25d7158b@aol.com>
> From: DR1029@aol.com > > Well here we are on Feb 11, 2000 and I have not yet received the Christmas > CD > yet. Perhaps it will be sent to me in December along with the next CD. I > live here on the Northeast coast and was told I would be getting my cd at > the > end of January....go figure!!
At least I'm not the only one waiting (no offense). What can we do?
Sean <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/music/MoneyForTheToll">Money For The Toll</A >
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 15:32:07 EST From: "Doug Melvin" <djemelvin@hotmail.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: re:musicians are entertainers? Message-ID: <20000212203207.6611.qmail@hotmail.com>
Matt,
I agree with you on the whole 'musicians are artists' bit, and you are right about the fact that musicians should write music for themselves before anyone else. But you also have to consider the fact that bands such as Yes, Dream Theater, Marillion, and others CHOSE to tour and CHOSE to release albums. The fans are the ones putting food in their stomachs and roofs over their heads, and so they are definitely entertainers. Nobody said that they should be entertainers, it was their simple choice. These bands also chose to become public citizens, which means that they have basically given up their complete privacy. It's a choice they decided to make. I'm sure that there are musicians out there who decide not to pursue an 'entertainment' career and simply write music without making a living out of it. I also suppose that there are entertainers out there who simply want attention, not artisticism, so I suppose that these bands that we all know and love could be classified as 'artistic entertainers' or something along those lines. They're artistic and they make a living out of it, they enjoy the best of both worlds.
~Doug Melvin
"Fuck 'em all, this is art. Fuck 'em all, this is art. Fuck 'em all, this is art. Fuck 'em all, this is art." - Kevin Gilbert
______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:48:18 -0500 From: alex <alex@dbwired.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Secret track Message-ID: <38A5D522.DE3138E7@dbwired.com>
I haven't read the jam in a while... but I though you guys may dig this if you didn't already now. I was in a music store in Conneticut this weekend and I saw a flyer for DT coming to toad's place. On the flyer it said go to www.onceinalivetime.com and enter the secret name and password to hear the song recorded live in Europe. Well the song is the medly they did over in Europe. I won't post the account and password on the jam for fear of spoling a surprise, but if anyone want's it... just email me.
alex
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 16:59:42 -0500 From: "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Re: Secret track Message-ID: <014301bf75a4$77597160$b2589780@resnet.rochester.edu>
I'm interested in the password! :) Thanks!
Scott.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:00:11 -0500 From: "Scott Sturdivant" <scott@erotomania.org> To: <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: doh Message-ID: <014c01bf75a4$8857b940$b2589780@resnet.rochester.edu>
I hate sending all my private replies to the jam. Sorry guys :)
Scott.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:28:17 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Moore <rushzil2112@yahoo.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: STUFF for a digest Message-ID: <20000212222817.4400.qmail@web1103.mail.yahoo.com>
I don't play guitar or anything, but I know good guitar playing when I hear it. On the guitar.com list, some pretty bad players were put on there. Alex Lifeson and John Petrucci should have been in the top 10. Alex Lifeson might not play the fastest guitar solos or anything that flashy, but damn, he plays with such emotion and he writes some badass songs and stuff. john Petrucci is also the same way, except he throws alot of flashy things in his solos, but on the Explorers Club cd he was on, his solos were very creative. I play drums, so of course I like Mike Portnoy. If there was a top 100 list of drummers and Neil Peart and Mike Portony weren't on there, I would definitely have to complain. But who wouldn't put Neil Peart on the list, he is just so damn good, and I am sure most people, atleast drummers, have heard of him. Not to mention Terry Bozzio, who is also one hell of a player. If Dream Theater does come to Texas, which I am guessing they are coming on the 9th or 10th of March, right after the New Orleans show cause Dallas is about 6 hours away from New Orleans. If they do come, I would like to hear from the people in the Dallas/Ft Worth area who are wanting to go by personal e-mail at rushzil2112@yahoo.com I would like to meat up with those people before the show. I hope it is at Bronco Bowl or any place bigger than that.
===== Mark Moore-drumming is life "HOLD YOUR FIRE- KEEP IT BURNING BRIGHT HOLD THE FLAME 'TIL THE DREAM IGNITES- A SPIRIT WITH A VISION IS A DREAM WITH A MISSION __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:30:13 -0800 From: drkhoe@gms.gmsnet.com (Dr. Mosh) To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: Re: PLEASE someone answer me?? about the NYC show Message-ID: <200002122230.OAA08953@gms.gmsnet.com>
Why don't you call the venue?
Before being sacrificed upon the altar..., Caprichan@aol.com thus begged: > >Okay, I know the DT show at Roseland is not 21+, but is it 18+? i really >really gotta know. if anyone could PLEASE tell me, i'll umm...i dont >know...be very very happy!! okay well laterz all > >Katastrophey
-- ------ drkhoe@gmsnet.com -------------- ++++++ ---------------------- ///// http://progmetal.gmsnet.com ----------------==== Unix systems - C/C++ video game engine development =><=============== Administration ===================== Intranet/Internet Engineering =================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 10:08:47 +1100 From: Graham Boyle <ytsejam@ozemail.com.au> To: The Dream Theater Mailing List <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Message-ID: <38A5E7FF.88D64852@ozemail.com.au>
>How do I succeed 100% in meeting the guys after the gig? It might be >easy in USA, I guess the band/fans relationship is more close, but >consider a European tour. How can I find them? When? >After the gig finishes do I rush like nuts outside? Or there's enough >time? Where do I go? Tour bus? How can I find a tour bas in a town I >don't know at all (another country)? Is the tour bas the only chance to >catch the guys? Backstage? There are some buldog guards in Europe that >kills with their eyes? Anything, anyway, how can I do it??? I see all of >you US guys have absolutely no problem at all (you chat, meet, get >signatures, take photos) except waiting little longer sometimes, but I >don't mind that.
Hang on the guys are human and if you speak English what's the problem :)= ? I met the guys after the Brussels show in November last year, got pics and autographs, just have some patience and be polite, that's all it take= s. The tour bus is usually hard to miss, and not far from the enterance to the venue.
>Also it may be applied to any other gig, how can I succeed meeting the >artist? I see Vai in a month or so, is he a cool guy or he hates fans?
I saw Vai just over a week ago, what a nice guy, he did an instore here in Sydney, he was very friendly and polite. Unlike Yngwie who did the sam= e thing a couple of months ago, it was above him to even talk and say hello= to the people that put him where he is.
>The poor European.
Please don't make me laugh, poor European, so many good tours to see =FE
gaz
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 17:28:24 -0600 From: Thomas <tommer@execpc.com> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: 2/11 Minneapolis show review Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20000212172824.007a13c0@mail.execpc.com>
Two words: cum fest
huh huh
Milwaukee tonight, then Chicago tomorrow. It's supposed to snow tomorrow too, dammit! ----- Web: http://www.execpc.com/~tommer ICQ: 15240956 AIM: DigityzeThis
"Without faith...without hope...there can be no peace of mind..." Dream Theater - 'Metropolis Part 2: Scenes From a Memory'
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Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 12:16:43 +1100 From: mikel <mikel@alphalink.com.au> To: ytsejam@torchsong.com Subject: art vs entertainment Message-ID: <38A605FA.60A78B53@alphalink.com.au>
This type of thing is spouted by new age hippies and the like, where people make art for arts sake. But what is the purpose of art? People like to say 'Well, its the expression of emotions' or some nonsense like that. Of course, being a musician is by definition art and by definition art is an expression of emotions, but that doesn't give it any real purpose. Generally art is ultimately seen as a form of entertainment. Yes Picasso was an entertainer, as was Charles Dickens. Im not arguing that they weren't artists, but if they were only artists then they would have kept there work at home and done what ever artists do. For most musicians, anyway, the joy comes from sharing your music with others a making others happy. In the very least it is entertainment for yourself. Im sorry if that didn't make much sense, but to sum it up- what is the meaning and purpose of art (someone define it in a no nonsense way please).
> Ok, I for one have a serious problem when musicians, at least serious > ones, are reffered to as "entertainers". To me, a musician is an > artist, we just happen to like their artwork and are willing to pay > money for it. Was Picasso an "entertainer"? How about Charles > Dickens? Ive always seen them, as well as musicians, as artists > who's work we find entertaining. Sure there are people who play > music for sole entertainment purposes and dont care about being > expressive with their emotions, and kudos to them, they enjoy it, > thats good. > > I would just associate bands like DT or Yes or Symphony X as being > musicians/artists, as opposed to someone like Britney Spears or > whoever, they to me would be an entertainer.
By definition DT, Yes and Symphony X are musicians/artists/entertainers. By definition Britney Spears is musician/entertainer/probably not an artist.
> comes from David Gilmour, you ALWAYS play for yourself before anyone > else.
This is true. Generally if you don't find what you do to be fun, entertaining and meaningful, neither will your audience.
> I never thought I'd hear this song (or the artist who sung it) quoted on > the jam.... but one of my favourite singers... even if heaps of his stuff > is pretty daggy... I'd love to hear him wrap his lungs around some prog > stuff :)
Hehe. My claim to fame is John's son went to my school (he was a few years older than me) and was responsible for introducing me to heavy metal (with Black Sabbath, Metallica etc). Last year I thought I would pay tribute to him by seeing his band Nanna's Army performing live. I was very, very, disappointed (and embarresed).
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Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 19:02:29 -0700 (MST) From: eckie@asu.edu To: Multiple recipients of list <ytsejam@torchsong.com> Subject: Psycho Hippie Sludge (less DTC than a Green Day concert) Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.1000212183049.19268A-100000@email2.asu.edu>
On Sat, 12 Feb 2000, mikel pontificated:
> This type of thing is spouted by new age hippies and the like, > where people make art for arts sake. But what is the purpose of art?
I have yet to meet anybody who makes art for art's sake. It's not really a purpose that propells people to make art, it's more of an investigation into one's own perception of the world around him/her/it that induces an urge to pick up a paint brush or a guitar, usually. I started drawing and painting at the wee age of 3, and was so enthralled at the effect of applying a pigment to a roughened surface like hot pressed watercolor paper (and generally making a really colorful mess) that I continued it all through my life.
It's really a big fucking question, similar to "what is the meaning of life?"
On a side note, studies have shown that everybody draws and sculpts and partakes in some kind of creative activity, whether you want to admit it or not (or just want to forget it altogether), until the age of 7 or thereabouts. Then most people stop doing that sort of stuff (reasons vary from increased vocabulary and literary skills to self consciousness issues) while a few others continue. So in this manner, kids are figuring out the 3 dimensional world on a 2 dimensional medium.
As for music, a lot of the great (imo) classical compositions were derived from the sounds and muses of the natural world. Debusy looked towards waterfalls and rivers of his homeland, Chopin got stung by a bee. Bjork used the wrong hamster when she was having mad sex one day. Church liked to paint trees.
> People like to say 'Well, its the expression of emotions' or some > nonsense like that. Of course, being a musician is by definition art and by > definition > art is an expression of emotions, but that doesn't give it any real purpose.
The nonsense of not expressing one's own emotions leads to this thing psychobabblers label, "bottling it all up," and then the introverted fool who never expresses his or her feelings usually ends up mowing down school children in playgrounds, super-gluing their bosses to their chairs, or starting a career in politics. The really bad cases become lawyers.
:)
> Generally art is ultimately seen as a form of entertainment.
What is art? Who's on second? Why is the sky purple and brown at the same time?
Personally, I don't think Picasso was an "entertainer," I think that label applies to those arts which involve change over time (like dance, music, smashing watermelons with mallets, etc.) and has to be "redone" or "reperformable." Dream Theater can replay Met. 2 over and over and over, and recreate the composition as it was recorded in the studio. Architects, taggers, and sculptors (unless they're flinging wet mud around the studio and covering people in clay) can't be considered entertainers, can they?
Maybe they can. :)
> Im sorry if that didn't make much sense, but to sum it up- what is the meaning > and purpose of art (someone define it in a no nonsense way please).
Instead of writing a manifesto on my views and opinions on the matter, I'm going to do what every artist before me would or should have suggested:
Figure it out yourself. Take some drawing courses, go to a museum, participate in your local arts community, or even do some research in a library, it's all about your perception.
And I'm sure my ass is gonna get fried for posting this much pretentous beatnik babble to a list devoted to Dream Theater and progressive music. It's like trying to answer, "What is music," "What's a job," "What sucks", blabbidy blabbidy bloohaha. SO DON'T ASK IT AGAIN!
Or I'm gonna have to put the smack down on your candy ass!
~Eckie could be wrong, but that's just his opinion
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End of YTSEJAM Digest 5306 **************************
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